TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 33 minutes ago, Matt39 said: There were zero steps taken last year. I can’t believe these guys have been here this long with zero success. Well that's what Salesman tried to sell us on after the season ended. Also don't forget that we're 1-0 in 2024 and that you're supposed to be enjoying a completely meaningless win over the Patriots (in which Saleh senselessly ran Breece into the ground) the entire offseason. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, bicketybam said: What was your example of not frivolous? Something that he genuinely felt was an important topic (e.g. vaccines, mandates, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, TuscanyTile2 said: Well that's what Salesman tried to sell us on after the season ended. Also don't forget that we're 1-0 in 2024 and that you're supposed to be enjoying a completely meaningless win over the Patriots (in which Saleh senselessly ran Breece into the ground) the entire offseason. If Wilson was the QB in that game (and hadn't quit) you'd be trumpeting that as another Zach win. You know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, bicketybam said: If Wilson was the QB in that game (and hadn't quit) you'd be trumpeting that as another Zach win. You know it. You hate ZW. I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 46 minutes ago, bicketybam said: You are a good poster so I won't be a dick. I asked how many teams lost their QB1 4 plays into the season and go on to make the playoffs. Go over your list and tell me which of those guys took over on the second offense series of the SEASON. Cmon. The four play, first game of the season qualifier is quite an outlier. No telling if any of the mentioned teams would come back with the same circumstance. My guess is they would. Is it better to lose a starter for the season in game one or game eight? Honestly if the team and coaches are mature and competent they should have an easier time recovering from losing their qb on game one. More time available to right the boat. And, as bad as Zach was, they were still in a great position to make the playoffs at the break. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Just now, rangerous said: Cmon. The four play, first game of the season qualifier is quite an outlier. No telling if any of the mentioned teams would come back with the same circumstance. My guess is they would. Is it better to lose a starter for the season in game one or game eight? Honestly if the team and coaches are mature and competent they should have an easier time recovering from losing their qb on game one. More time available to right the boat. And, as bad as Zach was, they were still in a great position to make the playoffs at the break. Carrying Wilson as the two, as many recognized before the season and throughout preseason was total self sabotage. And to hear framed as adversity now is a total crock of sh*t. These guys are shoveling never ending excuses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, T0mShane said: An interesting thought is this: Saleh isn’t even a factor in how well the Jets do this season. He runs the defense, which Ulbrich can do just as well at this point. If Saleh quit in January and they elevated Ulbrich, are the Jets any worse off today? I'd argue they are likely better off without the corny slogans and I can't imagine Ulbrich being worse at dealing with the media 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 7 minutes ago, rangerous said: Cmon. The four play, first game of the season qualifier is quite an outlier. No telling if any of the mentioned teams would come back with the same circumstance. My guess is they would. Is it better to lose a starter for the season in game one or game eight? Honestly if the team and coaches are mature and competent they should have an easier time recovering from losing their qb on game one. More time available to right the boat. And, as bad as Zach was, they were still in a great position to make the playoffs at the break. No way, but I respect your opinion. I just don't see any team losing their QB1 4 plays in and still making the run at the SB. That would have to be one freaking good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 4 minutes ago, bicketybam said: No way, but I respect your opinion. I just don't see any team losing their QB1 4 plays in and still making the run at the SB. That would have to be one freaking good team. The jets didn’t even bring in guys for workouts. Wentz reached out. So did Flacco. The Jets said no thanks. And now we’re hearing about adversity? Give me a break. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, bicketybam said: No way, but I respect your opinion. I just don't see any team losing their QB1 4 plays in and still making the run at the SB. That would have to be one freaking good team. Yes. That’s my whole point. Griese goes down and Morrall guides the doltfins to the Super Bowl. It happens and those teams are just tough. Imagine too that Bradshaw was benched for joe Gilliam. Not the same thing as an injury but that steeler team also went to the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, Matt39 said: The jets didn’t even bring in guys for workouts. Wentz reached out. So did Flacco. The Jets said no thanks. And now we’re hearing about adversity? Give me a break. The one legitimate defense of Saleh in this regard is that he may not have been thrilled with the organizational insistence on sticking with Zach. We'll never really know. You could argue that Saleh and the players were dealt a really sh*tty hand last year due to little or no fault of their own. I happen to think Saleh is a bad HC, but you could certainly imagine him wanting to go get a better QB2 than Zach Wilson. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 10 minutes ago, bicketybam said: No way, but I respect your opinion. I just don't see any team losing their QB1 4 plays in and still making the run at the SB. That would have to be one freaking good team. 3 minutes ago, rangerous said: Yes. That’s my whole point. Griese goes down and Morrall guides the doltfins to the Super Bowl. It happens and those teams are just tough. Imagine too that Bradshaw was benched for joe Gilliam. Not the same thing as an injury but that steeler team also went to the Super Bowl. Trent Green got hurt in preseason. All Kurt Warner did was come in and set the league on fire - winning MVP, Super Bowl MVP., and guiding the Rams to an 13-3 record and a SB championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, slimjasi said: Trent Green got hurt in preseason. All Kurt Warner did was come in and set the league on fire - winning MVP, Super Bowl MVP., and guiding the Rams to an 13-3 record and a SB championship. And Warner was an unknown. Zach was a known. A very bad known. This is not adversity it’s deliberate self sabotage that no one’s been held accountable for. Why trust anyone when they’re still going on about adversity last year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 9 minutes ago, rangerous said: Yes. That’s my whole point. Griese goes down and Morrall guides the doltfins to the Super Bowl. It happens and those teams are just tough. Imagine too that Bradshaw was benched for joe Gilliam. Not the same thing as an injury but that steeler team also went to the Super Bowl. Hostetler replacing Simms. Big Dick Nick replacing Wentz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 31 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: My point wasn't to discuss politics. Just that I hope it wasn't just something frivolous 1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said: I hope it was at least for something that he truly feels was necessary to do (e.g. something related to questioning vaccines or freedom from mandates, etc) 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 16 minutes ago, rangerous said: Yes. That’s my whole point. Griese goes down and Morrall guides the doltfins to the Super Bowl. It happens and those teams are just tough. Imagine too that Bradshaw was benched for joe Gilliam. Not the same thing as an injury but that steeler team also went to the Super Bowl. Any stories about Y.A. Tittle? We are talking about two completely different eras. Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Hostetler replacing Simms. Big Dick Nick replacing Wentz. Week 1??? Can anybody ******* read on this forum? Holy sh*t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1. Making the choice to have a 40 year old QB as your savior without a viable backup is not "oh, woe is me. Fate is cruel". That is a decision. 2. Doing so and not fortifying your offensive line is criminal. To once again, count on Becton after he failed over and over despite being given every opportunity was idiotic. 3. Keeping Wilson as the #2 was another choice that was made. 4. Building a team that couldn't win without throwing a ridiculous hail mary attempt in Rodgers is putting yourself in a position where failure is much more likely. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 7 minutes ago, bicketybam said: Week 1??? Can anybody ******* read on this forum? Holy sh*t. His point was that you're not going to find very many exact matches when your criteria is "Week 1" and "4 plays in". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, Matt39 said: Yeah again with this adversity stuff. The Jets weren’t flying with Rodgers and then hit a wall when he got hurt. It happened as early as it was going to happen. There was no self reflection from anyone there in terms of how they were going to piece the season together. How is this adversity? It’s quitting. Even more shameful is that they knew they weren’t going to be able to protect Rodgers and they did nothing about it. The OL was getting roached in every practice, and (iirc) they had to shut down the Panthers practices early because Brian Burns was living in the backfield every snap. Even the Giants preseason game where Rodgers deigned to participate, every play looked ****ed up because they couldn’t protect. Zero excuse to not have a better backup plan than Zach. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 22 minutes ago, slimjasi said: Trent Green got hurt in preseason. All Kurt Warner did was come in and set the league on fire - winning MVP, Super Bowl MVP., and guiding the Rams to an 13-3 record and a SB championship. HE SAID "WEEK 1" AND "4 PLAYS IN"!!!!!!!! CAN'T YOU READ?!?!?!?!! /sarcasm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 27 minutes ago, slimjasi said: The one legitimate defense of Saleh in this regard is that he may not have been thrilled with the organizational insistence on sticking with Zach. We'll never really know. You could argue that Saleh and the players were dealt a really sh*tty hand last year due to little or no fault of their own. I happen to think Saleh is a bad HC, but you could certainly imagine him wanting to go get a better QB2 than Zach Wilson. That Josina Anderson report that Woody refused to let them spend a dime on another backup makes a lot of sense in retrospect. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 15 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: 1. Making the choice to have a 40 year old QB as your savior without a viable backup is "oh, woe is me. Fate is cruel". That is a decision. 2. Doing so and not fortifying your offensive line is criminal. To once again, count on Becton after he failed over and over despite being given every opportunity was idiotic. 3. Keeping Wilson as the #2 was another choice that was made. 4. Building a team that couldn't win without throwing a ridiculous hail mary attempt in Rodgers is putting yourself in a position where failure is much more likely. In other words, our HOF QB wasn't expected to win with such a crappy OL, but Zach was? I assume everyone also agrees that Rodgers couldn't be expected to produce big numbers with a punt returner as his WR2 (but, again, Zach was). 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said: His point was that you're not going to find very many exact matches when your criteria is "Week 1" and "4 plays in". But that's what I am talking about. Virtually no team is surving a week 1 loss of QB1 week one (I'll give you the entire game even) and making the playoffs in this modern game of football. All I've been given is examples of guys that played with leather helmets and QB's that have gone out mid season or later. I find it odd that you are even on that side of the conversation. You are killing the Jets for making Wilson the #2 QB (and rightfully so.) My point is that no matter who QB2 was they weren't winning a championship, let alone a playoff game. In fact having Wilson play was the straw that broke the camel's back where Woody realized just how freaking bad he is. I'd take that over Wentz taking us to 8-9 and Slappy still being on the team today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Even more shameful is that they knew they weren’t going to be able to protect Rodgers and they did nothing about it. The OL was getting roached in every practice, and (iirc) they had to shut down the Panthers practices early because Brian Burns was living in the backfield every snap. Even the Giants preseason game where Rodgers deigned to participate, every play looked ****ed up because they couldn’t protect. Zero excuse to not have a better backup plan than Zach. The team stuck their collective head in the sand and pretended that having rodgers would fix everything but instead it only accentuated all that was wrong with the team - starting with the flawed decision to keep wilson as the 2 - continuing with drafting an edge in the first round, having no viable rbs besides hall (cook was washed), and keeping becton as the LT. They kept the bust draft picks a year too long and they’re lucky it didn’t cost them their jobs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: HE SAID "WEEK 1" AND "4 PLAYS IN"!!!!!!!! CAN'T YOU READ?!?!?!?!! /sarcasm Kurt Warner was the starting QB week 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, bicketybam said: Kurt Warner was the starting QB week 1. I think he came in 5 plays in, too, so it doesn't count. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 8 minutes ago, T0mShane said: That Josina Anderson report that Woody refused to let them spend a dime on another backup makes a lot of sense in retrospect. I could see that, but I also think Douglas and Saleh are stubborn by nature, so it's hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, bicketybam said: But that's what I am talking about. Virtually no team is surving a week 1 loss of QB1 week one (I'll give you the entire game even) and making the playoffs in this modern game of football. All I've been given is examples of guys that played with leather helmets and QB's that have gone out mid season or later. I find it odd that you are even on that side of the conversation. You are killing the Jets for making Wilson the #2 QB (and rightfully so.) My point is that no matter who QB2 was they weren't winning a championship, let alone a playoff game. In fact having Wilson play was the straw that broke the camel's back where Woody realized just how freaking bad he is. I'd take that over Wentz taking us to 8-9 and Slappy still being on the team today. Agree with your premise but it can’t be overlooked that keeping wilson instead of a game manager type backup suggests there were non football considerations polluting the decision making process that prioritized objectives besides winning as many games as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: I think he came in 5 plays in, too, so it doesn't count. He started all 16 games that year but go ahead and be a dick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, bicketybam said: He started all 16 games that year but go ahead and be a dick. Plus there were 16 regular season games that year, not 17. So it wouldn't have counted anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, Augustiniak said: Agree with your premise but it can’t be overlooked that keeping wilson instead of a game manager type backup suggests there were non football considerations polluting the decision making process that prioritized objectives besides winning as many games as possible. Absolutely! If Wilson wasn't making the guaranteed money he was and hadn't been the #2 overall pick he wouldn't have even played the first 2 years or would have been jettisoned into the sun after year 2. No question. I agree 1000% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 52 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Carrying Wilson as the two, as many recognized before the season and throughout preseason was total self sabotage. And to hear framed as adversity now is a total crock of sh*t. These guys are shoveling never ending excuses. Prior to snap #4 last year, Rodgers hadn’t missed a start in five seasons. I was okay with Zach in the #2 role, staying involved in the game planning and hopefully learning something while Rodgers continued not to miss a start. It didn’t work out that way. There were marginal starting QBs available in free agency at that time, and -for whatever reason- they opted not to go that route. Was that Woody holding the purse? Or was it Douglas making the determination that the money spent for a one year rental wasn’t worth the investment at that point? I don’t know. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Saleh, though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Plus there were 16 regular season games that year, not 17. So it wouldn't have counted anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, bicketybam said: Absolutely! If Wilson wasn't making the guaranteed money he was and hadn't been the #2 overall pick he wouldn't have even played the first 2 years or would have been jettisoned into the sun after year 2. No question. I agree 1000% And then you have becton as well. 2 guys who fell on their faces last year and ruined the season, and finally the gm showed some balls and got rid of both and replaced them with a proven legit qb backup and hopefully a real LT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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