Zito to the Mets?

[mbn007]

The Mets aren't a Zito away from winning the World Series. They need to build up the farm system, the complete opposite of what they used to do. Just because Zito is out there doesn't make it a necessity that you have to give up your top prospect for him. Remember, the Mets early success does not mean we Mets fans think this is the year. Zambrano WON'T be the only pitcher to go down this year. Glavine is 40. Pedro is injury prone. Trachsel is...Trachsel. Think Zito will win it all for us alone? Get real.

Maxman, I want Zito. I think he's a great talent. But not Millege. If the A's can't accept a good package of 2 or 3 of our 2nd-tier prospects, f*uck 'em.

And Maxman, I generalized you as a Yankee fan. My bad. But you can't fault me. You were the guys saying Randy Johnson would lead you to the promised land, remember?

But you are a Zito away from almost guaranteeing yourselves a spot in the 2006 WS. Zito or Willis.

Now, if you can land either cat without using your top prospects, by all means, do so. Go for it. But for the 1st time, I think Beane in Oakland is real serious about trading Zito. So wait him out, until he lowers the price. But get the guy, or a reasonable facimile.

[Scott Dierking]

I hate to say this, Max is right, and I am a Met fan.

If you are in the position the Mets are in (a chance to win it all this year), and you need a starting pitcher, and one is being offered to you, and teh cost is a minor league jewel, most times you jump at it.

For this deal, teh Mets woul have to agree to a contract extension with Zito, pre-trade. That would be a necessity. You would re-unite Zito with his pitching coach that he prospered under.

Alex Ochoa anyone? The Minor Leagues are littered with players who were supposed to be 5 tool superstars (Clint Hurdle), that just never panned out. The Mets could have their own Minor League HOF filled with those players.

In this game, you take the sure, proven thing over the possible thing most times. Particularly when you are what the Mets are this year

[mbn007]

I hate to say this, Max is right, and I am a Met fan.

If you are in the position the Mets are in (a chance to win it all this year), and you need a starting pitcher, and one is being offered to you, and teh cost is a minor league jewel, most times you jump at it.

For this deal, teh Mets woul have to agree to a contract extension with Zito, pre-trade. That would be a necessity. You would re-unite Zito with his pitching coach that he prospered under.

Alex Ochoa anyone? The Minor Leagues are littered with players who were supposed to be 5 tool superstars (Clint Hurdle), that just never panned out. The Mets could have their own Minor League HOF filled with those players.

In this game, you take the sure, proven thing over the possible thing most times. Particularly when you are what the Mets are this year

I think that it would be understood that the Mets would demand, and be granted a 72 hour window for signing Zito. Otherwise, a deal makes no sense at all.

Hurdle, Ochoa, Escobar. All "can't miss" types. Some were labeled 5 tool superstars in the making.

What happenned? Get me the more sure thing in Zito or WIllis.

Now, maybe you do not want to get a Jason Schmidt, with his age and all. He also would help this year. But at least Zito and Willis will be around for quite a while after 2006. So get 1, even if it costs Milledge.

[Maxman]

If Zito is the next "franchise" pitcher though, why hasn't everybody tried to snatch him? The A's have dangled him as trade bait in each of the past 2-3 seasons, and no one has bitten.

Because of the contract that he would require. Only a handul of teams could afford him. Thank you for helping me make my point.

If Zito were making 500k and was locked up for 3 more years do you realize what it would take to get him? Your top prospect wouldn't be enough to get it done.

[Maxman]

milledge is a projected 30/30 guy. zito is very inconsistent and he might not even resign with us. you would give up a perennial future all star for 5 months of a decent pitcher? id rather go get odalis perez. what if we traded reyes or wright where would we be?

milledge ranks among the top 10 prospects in baseball

we also have mike pelfrey and alay soler we can call up

No. I would only trade for Zito if I had a window of oppportunity to do a new deal. Give him a 4 year extention and see if he goes for it. I would not trade for him for half a season.

That would be a shame for Met fans. Getting to the WS again only to lose to the Yankees. How much of that could you guys take?

[faba]

Lets see Randy Johnson trade was supposed to put the Yankees over the top- see how that supposed one missing link has worked out so far

[Scott Dierking]

What did Rick Sutcliffe do with the Cubs in 1984 after he was traded? Go something like 16-1.

If you have a chance to win it all (and the Mets, based on a small sampling, I understand), have that chance, you owe it to your fanbase to do whatever it logically takes to win it.

This is NOT Zambrano for Kazmir. And why the Mets thought they were in "win now" mode then, completely baffled me.

A starting pitcher can be a lynchpin, a missing piece to a World Series run. The bullpen is set to pick up the back end of t6hings. The line-up is set.

The 3-4-5 spots are not.

Who wants to gamble with that? It is not like the Mets have been in this position for the past decade and they can gamble that they can patch things together.

[Maxman]

Look, we are not trading Milledge for Zito end of story.

Yes I would rather have a Future All-Star outfielder than a "pretty good" pitcher.

screw this "built for now" garbage. That is the same thing that got your beloved Yankees to 200M and very few prospects, and ZERO team chemistry.

If (When) we are looking strong towards the end of this season we should try to make a move for a pitcher to shore up the back of the rot.

until then there will be no mortgaging of the future.

You don't get it. I am saying Zito is an ace. A # 1 starter. He is 27 years old. You say trading him for a guy who has a chance at 30/30 is mortgaging the future.

Alrighty then. I have seen the Mets future. And it doesn't involve winning any Wolrd Series. Let me know how that works out for you.

[Maxman]

Willis maybe, Zito, NF'nWay. He cheated Pedro out of Cy Young one year and he's been barely OK since. This is no superstar you mortgage your future on. Now Willis is having a bad start, but the guy has serious speed. I'm willing to bet Peterson can turn him around, but ONLY at the right price. We weren't ready to do the Milledge deal in the offseason and thus far NEITHER of these guys warrants dealing Heilmann. Just cause the #5 starter is down, there's no reason to panic. Got some talent on the farm too.

Look at Zito's #'s. They are not bad. He won't 14 games last year and he should have had many more than that. His ERA was WELL below the league average. Remember you are comparing two different leagues here.

Oh and couldn't Peterson also improve Zito? Since he made him and all?

[Scott Dierking]

You don't get it. I am saying Zito is an ace. A # 1 starter. He is 27 years old. You say trading him for a guy who has a chance at 30/30 is mortgaging the future.

Alrighty then. I have seen the Mets future. And it doesn't involve winning any World Series. Let me know how that works out for you.

The Mets "future" and it is a short term future I am talking about DOES NOT include Pedro and Glavine. They are at the end of the line.

To assume that Milledge will be a part of some dynamo team automatically is Pittsburgh Pirate and Kansas City Royal thinking to the extreme.

Nothing is more overly, and wrongly valued in baseball than minor league stars. 2 birds in the bush, does not equal the one in the hand. (And SouthernJet, you leave that statement alone)

[Maxman]

I hate to say this, Max is right, and I am a Met fan.

If you are in the position the Mets are in (a chance to win it all this year), and you need a starting pitcher, and one is being offered to you, and teh cost is a minor league jewel, most times you jump at it.

For this deal, teh Mets woul have to agree to a contract extension with Zito, pre-trade. That would be a necessity. You would re-unite Zito with his pitching coach that he prospered under.

Alex Ochoa anyone? The Minor Leagues are littered with players who were supposed to be 5 tool superstars (Clint Hurdle), that just never panned out. The Mets could have their own Minor League HOF filled with those players.

In this game, you take the sure, proven thing over the possible thing most times. Particularly when you are what the Mets are this year

Scott...

The bigger question is, why does agreeing with me pain you so much? LOL.

A point I brought up in an earlier post: Think about what the price would be if money were not a factor. Only a few teams can pay Zito. The Mets are one of them. Take that out of the mix, if there were at least 25 teams interested, no way would a future five tool corner outfielder get it done.

It is a no-brainer. Kazmir will be a better pro than this kid. You gave him away for nothing. At least my idea gives you a shot at the World Series.

[GimmeShelter]

Reds? They aren't going to spend to keep him??

Nope for the REDS if they are still in contention he would be a 2 month rental.

As for the rest of the thread.

Look at the junk that Randy and Schilling were aquired for yet it is etched in stone that the Mets must trade our best prospect for Zito who would ALSO have to be extended contract wise.

[Scott Dierking]

Nope for the REDS if they are still in contention he would be a 2 month rental.

As for the rest of the thread.

Look at the junk that Randy and Schilling were aquired for yet it is etched in stone that the Mets must trade our best prospect for Zito who would ALSO have to be extended contract wise.

The reason that Schilling and Johnson were let go so cheaply, was that those moves were salary dumps.

The new age of baseball trades has allowed one team to absorb a player with a high salary, get him off the books of the club, and accept relative low value in return.

Making room on the books now is considered to be as important as getting good players.

Zito is not a salary dump, as he is only under contract for this year. That diminishes his value somewhat in a trade, and that is why it would be in the Mets best interest to get a contract agreement in place.

[mbn007]

The reason that Schilling and Johnson were let go so cheaply, was that those moves were salary dumps.

The new age of baseball trades has allowed one team to absorb a player with a high salary, get him off the books of the club, and accept relative low value in return.

Making room on the books now is considered to be as important as getting good players.

Zito is not a salary dump, as he is only under contract for this year. That diminishes his value somewhat in a trade, and that is why it would be in the Mets best interest to get a contract agreement in place.

Correct.

Arizona actually pulled a Florida Marlin type deal those 2 winters, but didn't do everything in 1 offseason, so no one complained about "dumping". But those 2 moves were all about getting rid of the almost 30 million in salaries that the 2 pitchers ate up from the Arizsona budget.

[Jetsfan80]

For the last time, I want Barry Zito. Mets fans want Barry Zito.

But if it means giving up our best prospect in years, I say no. Why is this so incredulous? Did it really require 5 pages to debate this point?

[stormshadow19]

For the last time, I want Barry Zito. Mets fans want Barry Zito.

But if it means giving up our best prospect in years, I say no. Why is this so incredulous? Did it really require 5 pages to debate this point?

Only two pages for me.

The point of fact is, Zito is an established pitcher with filthy stuff. He posts decent numbesr in the AL. The same kind that Pedro posted, before going to the NL. Zito could be flat out dominant in the NL, and for a long time too. That's the point of contention. And, that's a point that Mets fans don't really seem to grasp. An Ace is far better than a right fielder. It's not like Zito wouldn't be around for the next 10 years, either.. as he's still young. So, your team would not be mortgaging the future, but insuring it.

[Jetsfan80]

Only two pages for me.

The point of fact is, Zito is an established pitcher with filthy stuff. He posts decent numbesr in the AL. The same kind that Pedro posted, before going to the NL. Zito could be flat out dominant in the NL, and for a long time too. That's the point of contention. And, that's a point that Mets fans don't really seem to grasp. An Ace is far better than a right fielder. It's not like Zito wouldn't be around for the next 10 years, either.. as he's still young. So, your team would not be mortgaging the future, but insuring it.

We have other prospects besides Millege to give up. No team is going to give up their top prospect to get Zito, so there's no reason to believe the Mets will be forced to in order to obtain him.

[mbn007]

We have other prospects besides Millege to give up. No team is going to give up their top prospect to get Zito, so there's no reason to believe the Mets will be forced to in order to obtain him.

If I remember correctly, Escobar was your top prospect at the time, and you traded him in the Alamor disaster.

It has, and does happen quite often. The Expos (Omar was GM) traded Lee, the pitcher, and Sizemore, the stud in CF, and Brandon Phillips, now in Cincy, for Colon, when they thought they had a chance to win, just 3 seasons ago. The Braves traded Marte just last year. The BoSox traded Helmsley Ramirez last year. Etc. Etc.

Trading Milledge for a stud pitcher who is on the right side of 30, and already established, would be a very good trade for the 2006 Mets, and will also give them Glavines replacement for a long time.

[faba]

Practically every Met fan I know do not want to give Milledge for Zito

It seems all other teams fans want them to

Zito has not been as good the last couple of years as all that I am reading about him are proclaiming-Milledge is a top prospect by all the scouts that can be a fixture in the outfield- Nothing is guaranteed in life - any thing has risks- Milledge as a position player that can be a fixture for many years is not worth Zito

[Maxman]

Practically every Met fan I know do not want to give Milledge for Zito

It seems all other teams fans want them to

Zito has not been as good the last couple of years as all that I am reading about him are proclaiming-Milledge is a top prospect by all the scouts that can be a fixture in the outfield- Nothing is guaranteed in life - any thing has risks- Milledge as a position player that can be a fixture for many years is not worth Zito

A corner outfielder who might be very good. Or a # 2 starter (worst case scenario).

It is a no-brainer to me. Have fun passing on him guys. He will do well in the Bronx.

[stormshadow19]

Practically every Met fan I know do not want to give Milledge for Zito

It seems all other teams fans want them to

Zito has not been as good the last couple of years as all that I am reading about him are proclaiming-Milledge is a top prospect by all the scouts that can be a fixture in the outfield- Nothing is guaranteed in life - any thing has risks- Milledge as a position player that can be a fixture for many years is not worth Zito

Maybe that should say something. Most of us could care less about the Mets, me being one of them. If the circumstances were reversed, and the Tigers were in the NL, and had a hot corner OF, and they had a chance to get a left handed ACE, you do it. It doesn't do much in the AL, but he'd be flat out dominant in the NL.

[mbn007]

Maybe that should say something. Most of us could care less about the Mets, me being one of them. If the circumstances were reversed, and the Tigers were in the NL, and had a hot corner OF, and they had a chance to get a left handed ACE, you do it. It doesn't do much in the AL, but he'd be flat out dominant in the NL.[/quote]

Not sure about dominant, but he would be a very successful pitcher there.

[stormshadow19]

Well, he doesn't have the arm of Roger Clemens or even Pedro Martinez, but his curve ball would eat NL hitters alive (not named Pujols). He's been flat out dominant in the AL. Why couldn't he be in the NL?

[mbn007]

Well, look at his total stats since he won the Cy Young Award. He is about a .500 pitcher, for a team that has been in the playoffs, or just missed, each of those seasons.

Good pitcher? Yes. Very Good Pitcher? Most probably. Dominant Pitcher? No, not in the AL these days. But you are correct about his curveball, and other offspeed stuff. The NL will have a very tough time with it.

[BigJermaineFromQnz]

A corner outfielder who might be very good. Or a # 2 starter (worst case scenario).

It is a no-brainer to me. Have fun passing on him guys. He will do well in the Bronx.

yeah just like everyone else "Does well" in the bronx.

you guys dont get it. Zito is not worth the price of Milledge. Having a good pitcher is not as good as having an all-star outfielder.

If you dont understand why actual Mets fans dont want to trade him then dont bother, but this will not go through.

[stormshadow19]

I said he's been flat out dominant, not that he's currently dominant, though he's been pitching well, as of late. He'd be filthy in the NL, which is the weaker of the two, when it comes to hitting. That and going to a new league, with his stuff, where they really haven't seen him alot... he'd be dominant for the rest of this year, at the very least. He'd be their, at worst, number two pitcher for the next ten years.