More whistling past the graveyard

[pjam76]

You condemn Herm for not improving. You condemn him for inheriting a talent laden team.

Yet on the same note you say the Jets missed the playoffs cause Vinny T got hurt and Ray Lucas went 7-2 to end the season, but it was too little too late... Wasn't that Parcells fault not to play Lucas earlier?

Seems to me Parcells hasn't done many things right in the last few coaching jobs he's had. BUt that's besides the point.

As far as Al Groh.. It's a joke to say if things went this way or that way, they could have went 11-5.. On that same note, if a FG KICKER MAKeS ONE KICK, the Jets are in the AFC Championship.

You can't blame Herm for inheriting a great team and never did nothing with it and then let the two previous coaches off the hook when they didn't make the playoffs.

Like I said, in the end, Herm should have been fired or cut after last season...... but the fact was, if Herm inherited such a great squad, either Parcells and Grohs stunk worse than Herm in the two prior seasons to him, or it is what it was.

Vinny T, while great, was always a QB who choked in big games, going back to college.

Chad P is bashed all the time on this board, he was the QB during Herms tenure..

He is by no means a great coach and makes too many stupid mental errors during games, but to hate him? For what? Either your a racist or he molested your kids or something.

Hating a coach you probably don't know or never met is kind of a waste of time.

[Preston Howley III]

You can't blame Herm for inheriting a great team and never did nothing with it and then let the two previous coaches off the hook when they didn't make the playoffs.

Fine, let's roll with that.

Herm didn't "inherit" a "good team". Lets assume for argument sake, they were a putrid team.Exactly what did he do in 2001, to improve the team? They were 9-7 in 2000, and were 10-6 in 2001.

A one game difference. OK, I'll spot you this-

The win/loss differential is attributed ENTIRELY to Herms prowess as a HC. With me so far?

OK, so tell me what did Herm do to improve the team in 2002? What masterstrokes did Herm paint in 2002, that made the team better in 2003, 2004, and 2005?

What did Herm do to improve the team in 2003? 2004? 2005?

He did nothing. Herm simply exhausted the shelf life of an aging veteran core, that was here before he got here, and when it inevitably expired, he orchestrated his way out of NY and into KC (which incidentally was a hauntingly similar situation as the one he conveniently benefitted from in 2001).

Assuming you are correct, that Herm took over a stinky team, precludes the assumption on my behalf that if Herm actually knew what he was doing, the team would have progressively gotten better sequencially over the following seasons.

But thats not what happened, in fact, the team got worse.

So of course, the next rationalization is that Herm's teams appeared to get worse, but actually performed well enough to get in to playoffs, in each season that Chad Pennington didn't get injured. Which is a huge copout, but hey, I can roll with that as well. If you want to say that the Jets didn't make the playoffs in 2003, and 2006 because the starting QB was injured, I can turn right around and say that in the years the Jets did make the playoffs, 2002 and 2004, that Pennington carried the team, and covered up Herm's inadequacies. But more importantly, how does one explain 2001? Vinny was the QB.

How is it Herm can make it in the playoffs in 2001 with Vinny, but gets a pass in 2003? How can anyone keep a straight face while rationalizing Herms atrocious game day decisions and mismanagement during the 2003 season, and dismiss a pathetic 6-10 finish as nothing more than misfortune because Chad Pennington was injured for many of the games, while at the same time CREDITING Herm with getting the Jets to to playoffs in 2001 with Vinny?

How did this guy BS his way into a contract extension at the end of the 2003 season? How was it that Hackett was retained? Because Herm had to save face, and not fire both the DC and OC at the same time?

This nonsense went on for five years. Herm was, and remains a fraud. He moved deck chairs around on the titanic, and was rewarded and praised by his apologists, who implied that his critics were to stupid too see the nuances of his greatness. Or worse, they called us racists.

[pjam76]

YOu don't read or listen except to bash Herm.

I said he didn't improve over the years. I said he should have been gone cause in the end, he never improved the Jets.

But you refuse to listen or read any of that. The only things you keep saying are bash Herm for this and bash Herm for that. Who cares. He's gone.

Herm isn't a great coach. Who knows if Mangini will be or not, he's only been here for one season and was embarassed in the playoffs.

At the end of the day, Herm is no different than most o the coaches the Jets have had over the years. THey Jets never win.

Hopefully that changes with Mangini and staff. But people call people racists when they refuse to listen to what anybody else says, yet continue to bash on somebody when that conversation has long been over.

[Preston Howley III]

YOu don't read or listen except to bash Herm.

I said he didn't improve over the years. I said he should have been gone cause in the end, he never improved the Jets.

But you refuse to listen or read any of that. The only things you keep saying are bash Herm for this and bash Herm for that. Who cares. He's gone.

Herm isn't a great coach. Who knows if Mangini will be or not, he's only been here for one season and was embarassed in the playoffs.

At the end of the day, Herm is no different than most o the coaches the Jets have had over the years. THey Jets never win.

Hopefully that changes with Mangini and staff. But people call people racists when they refuse to listen to what anybody else says, yet continue to bash on somebody when that conversation has long been over.

[Preston Howley III]

[MSGold12]

YOu don't read or listen except to bash Herm.

I said he didn't improve over the years. I said he should have been gone cause in the end, he never improved the Jets.

But you refuse to listen or read any of that. The only things you keep saying are bash Herm for this and bash Herm for that. Who cares. He's gone.

Herm isn't a great coach. Who knows if Mangini will be or not, he's only been here for one season and was embarassed in the playoffs.

At the end of the day, Herm is no different than most o the coaches the Jets have had over the years. THey Jets never win.

Hopefully that changes with Mangini and staff. But people call people racists when they refuse to listen to what anybody else says, yet continue to bash on somebody when that conversation has long been over.

And there it is!!!! Once Hermy supporters have been confronted woith the truth and facts, when they have no where else to go...they pull out the "you're a racist" card! Nice.

And where exact;y did I let Parcells off the hook for not going t LUcas sooner? Where did I say Al Groh was a great coach? But facts is facts.

The team Herm took over was almost identical to the team that went ot the AFC championship in 1998 PLUS the 4 #1s PLUS Coles. Herm rode a talented team and did nohting with them and then bolted as soon as tht talent ran dry. He was a phoney from day one who used his chuck and jive bullsh*t to fool a novice owner and novice GM into believeing a guy with NO coordinator experience who was NEVER a HC on any level was qualified to be a HC. Want to talk racist? OK, how about the fact that if Herm were white with his qualifications he doesnt even GET an iterview????

BL...the guy was a fake and a fraud, he cost several players (Jordan is a good example) and coahces their cvareers. He bamboozled a high % of fans into believeing he was a good coach, he preached his BS about integrity and honer...and then turned out to be as big a scum bag liar as BB was.

You want to continure to defend that...be my guest.

ps- If you cannot distnguish the differecne between Herm setting Brien up to fail with a 43 yard FG in the toughest stadium in football to hit a FG and John Hall missing a 31 yard FG that defeats the Lions in week 15, a win that would have clinched playoff bearth for us, then this conversation is over.

[SouthernJet]

Jet fans SHOULD revile and hate Herman Edwards. He wasted our window. .

Great line.

POTW nominee for that.

[nyjunc]

But do NOT discount the taklent he ingherited. This team was in turmoil in the FO...NOT on the field. This tea had 2 starting QBs, a 1000 yard feature back, a #1 pick WR, a #1 pick at TE, a solid OL incoudijng a prto bowl C, two young #1s on the DL, Jones and Lewis still playing well, Glenn, Coleman and Green in the seocondaryy. They missed the playoffs in 1999 because their QB went down in week 1 and Tuna didnt replace him...yet when Lucas stepped in they went 7-2...you teling me that team doesnt make the playoffs if Vinny stays healthy? In 2000 they started 6-1, went into a funk but were a chippy Hall FG and a terrible Vinny pick away from being 11-5. Thise were playoff talented teams Herm inherited...NOTHING like what Mangini just took over.

Chad had never started and Vinny was coming off a terrible 2000 season, was old and just had a major injury.

Curtis was still very good

Who was this #1 pick WR? Coles was a 3rd rd pick and barely played in 2000, Chrebet was a 2 or 3 at best at that point in his career.

The Ol was good

Abe missed 10 games of his rookie year

The LBs were getting old and Parcells gave mo and Cox huge deals to screw up our cap just before he left.

The secondary had Aaron Glenn and Victor Green.

In 2000 we lost b/c hall missed the FG against det? 1st off that would have TIED the game, secondly we lost 6 of 9 games to end the year and we were 6-1 b/c we had 4 miracle comebacks. that team was not very good and it was getting older and more expensive when herm and TB took over.

No the Jets were not some great dynasty...but they were a playoff talented team that SHOULD have gotten better and made a run.

They did get better. They went from 9 wins an no playoffs in 2000 to 10 wins and playoffs in '01, 9 wins w/ a div title and a playoff win in '02, took a step back after some FA losses and injuries in '03 then bounced back w/ 10 wins and a near trip to the title game in '04. '05 was a mess b/c of injuries, we saw the difference a healthy team could make this year.

Herm didn't "inherit" a "good team". Lets assume for argument sake, they were a putrid team.Exactly what did he do in 2001, to improve the team? They were 9-7 in 2000, and were 10-6 in 2001.

'00 we lost 6 of 9 to end the season, '01 we won 7 of 10. he didn't allow Vinny to throw 25 INTs as he relied on Curtis to carry us and he did.

The win/loss differential is attributed ENTIRELY to Herms prowess as a HC. With me so far?

the '00 team lost 6 of 9 and finished 9-7 but needed 4 miracle wins. Down 19-7 w/ about 2 mins left against NE we won, we needed a KR and hail Mary to beat Buffalo, down 17-6 at Tb w/ about 2 mins left we won and down 30-7 against Miami. That was fools gold, we were solid in 2001 and won 7 of 10 tio end the year. The '01 team was much better tha the '00 team despite the 1 game difference in record. The '02 team was better than '01 and we won one less game than '01.

OK, so tell me what did Herm do to improve the team in 2002? What masterstrokes did Herm paint in 2002, that made the team better in 2003, 2004, and 2005?

'02 he insredted Chad and we relied on his arm to carry us. '03 we lost a bunch of FAs thanks to the cap hell we inherited from BP and we had key injuries but our team never quot and beat the hottest team in the league in Dec. In '04 we had a top D and our running game improved, '05 was a diaster. to win 4 games w/ that team was a miracle.

[Sperm Edwards]

The 2000 team was better than you're giving them credit for. Groh was a lousy HC in his own right. Only thing that allowed the team to overcome Groh was their belief in Vinny that he could bring them back from a 90-point deficit at any point in the game.

This was an offense that (Vinny's nauseating picks notwithstanding) was capable of putting up >500 yds of offense & a couple of TD's on the otherwise immovable 2000 Ravens defense. That was capable of beating teams that (but for their Jets' games) were 9-6, 11-3, 11-3, 10-5, 9-5. While not the class of the league, it's not like the '00 Jets went 9-7 and did so beating only the likes of the Cardinals & Bengals.

To say that Herm's 2001 team was so infinitely better because they scraped up UNimpressive wins vs an easier schedule is not intellectually honest. Particularly when we racked up a 1-pt win vs the 1-15 Panthers (in the midst of a 15-game losing streak), a 1-pt win vs the zero-offense Bengals (during their own 7-game losing streak). We split games (the win being a 1-point win) vs the otherwise 5-9 Colts. Then the difference-maker from 2000 was an Oakland victory thanks to a game-ending 53-yarder from John Hall in what would've been a massacre-loss had the game not been pushed back because of 9/11. Talk about squeaking one's way to a winning record.

But in the end, records aside, the 2000 team had more power & more umph to them than the pussy 2001 team. Bet your ass every playoff team was glad we missed the playoffs. The 2000 team was dangerous (for Jets fans as well), but the 2001 team was totally soft & scared no one north of Miami.

[nyjunc]

This was an offense that (Vinny's nauseating picks notwithstanding) was capable of putting up >500 yds of offense & a couple of TD's on the otherwise immovable 2000 Ravens defense

yards are great but we didn't score enough points. that offense had Vinny coming off a major injury where he clearly wasn't the same player he was in '98, we lost key and didn't have a legit #1 WR, our starting WRs were Wayne and ward neither of which is close to a 1 and both are best suited for being a 3.

To say that Herm's 2001 team was so infinitely better because they scraped up UNimpressive wins vs an easier schedule is not intellectually honest. Particularly when we racked up a 1-pt win vs the 1-15 Panthers (in the midst of a 15-game losing streak), a 1-pt win vs the zero-offense Bengals (during their own 7-game losing streak). We split games (the win being a 1-point win) vs the otherwise 5-9 Colts. Then the difference-maker from 2000 was an Oakland victory thanks to a game-ending 53-yarder from John Hall in what would've been a massacre-loss had the game not been pushed back because of 9/11. Talk about squeaking one's way to a winning record.

Who knows what would have happened if 9/11 never happened. I wish we knew, we probably end up w/ the same record as the Bills game would have been a win and in game and we wouldn't have overlooked them.

In 2001 we also beat NE(the first time in our history we beat an evenatul SB champ), swept Miami including a shutout win, won at NO against a team that was playing well at the time and won in Oak for the 1st time since we were the titans. In 2000 we swept Miami, beat Indy at home and won at TB. 2 of those wins were absolute fluke miracle comebacks. The '01 team had more impressive victories.

But in the end, records aside, the 2000 team had more power & more umph to them than the pussy 2001 team. Bet your ass every playoff team was glad we missed the playoffs. The 2000 team was dangerous (for Jets fans as well), but the 2001 team was totally soft & scared no one north of Miami.

we lost our last 3, which team do you think oak worried more about? the team they whooped 31-7 or the team they lost to that cost them a 1st rd bye and maybe a SB?

[JetCane]

To say that Herm's 2001 team was so infinitely better because they scraped up UNimpressive wins vs an easier schedule is not intellectually honest.

Now dont go raising the bar around here like that, Sperm.

[MSGold12]

Chad had never started and Vinny was coming off a terrible 2000 season, was old and just had a major injury.

Curtis was still very good

Who was this #1 pick WR? Coles was a 3rd rd pick and barely played in 2000, Chrebet was a 2 or 3 at best at that point in his career.

The Ol was good

Abe missed 10 games of his rookie year

The LBs were getting old and Parcells gave mo and Cox huge deals to screw up our cap just before he left.

The secondary had Aaron Glenn and Victor Green.

In 2000 we lost b/c hall missed the FG against det? 1st off that would have TIED the game, secondly we lost 6 of 9 games to end the year and we were 6-1 b/c we had 4 miracle comebacks. that team was not very good and it was getting older and more expensive when herm and TB took over.

They did get better. They went from 9 wins an no playoffs in 2000 to 10 wins and playoffs in '01, 9 wins w/ a div title and a playoff win in '02, took a step back after some FA losses and injuries in '03 then bounced back w/ 10 wins and a near trip to the title game in '04. '05 was a mess b/c of injuries, we saw the difference a healthy team could make this year.

'00 we lost 6 of 9 to end the season, '01 we won 7 of 10. he didn't allow Vinny to throw 25 INTs as he relied on Curtis to carry us and he did.

the '00 team lost 6 of 9 and finished 9-7 but needed 4 miracle wins. Down 19-7 w/ about 2 mins left against NE we won, we needed a KR and hail Mary to beat Buffalo, down 17-6 at Tb w/ about 2 mins left we won and down 30-7 against Miami. That was fools gold, we were solid in 2001 and won 7 of 10 tio end the year. The '01 team was much better tha the '00 team despite the 1 game difference in record. The '02 team was better than '01 and we won one less game than '01.

'02 he insredted Chad and we relied on his arm to carry us. '03 we lost a bunch of FAs thanks to the cap hell we inherited from BP and we had key injuries but our team never quot and beat the hottest team in the league in Dec. In '04 we had a top D and our running game improved, '05 was a diaster. to win 4 games w/ that team was a miracle.

It truly amazes me the lengths Hermy Lovers will go to defend his legacy here and attempt to validate their support of him. The above is a wonderful example of manipulaton of facts to achieve that goal. But an objective eye is all thats needed to blow holes ion the "Defend hermy Crowd". Lets go year by year shall we???

2000- The jets go 9-7 after a 6-1 start. They are 9-5 wiht two games to go and blow an easy FG that would have tied a lousy Det team and then a Vinny int screws up what looked to be a win over Balt. team finishes 9-7, misses the playoffs, Groh quits, Herm is hired.

2001- Herm inherits a team that was .500 or better the prvious 4 seasons including an AFC title game in 1998. The core of the team is essentialy in tact wiht a vetran QB (and a#1 in waiting), all pro RB, a new #1 pick at WR (Moss), Chrebet, Coles, a #1 at TE, and an intact OL with Mawae, Fabini, Elliott, Young, Thomas and Mawae on it. On D he has Ellis, JA, Fergy, Lewis, JOnes, farrior, Glenn, Coleman, and Green. His team starts poorly, is WILDLY inconsistent all year, cant stop the run, loses BADLY in many games. They lose a HORRID game to 2 win BUfalo at HOME that would have clinched a playoff spot only to rely on a 56 yard Hall FG in the last week to get in as the 6 seed. Thye then get embarassed in rd 1.

2002- Off season changes on D as Herm dismantles his secondary, blamijg personell for the defensive woes. O remians the same. Anohter horrid start saved ONLY when Vinny gets hurt and Chad ( a player Herm consistently said had no chance of winning the job in TC) saves the season. Still the team is 8-6 and a win v a terrible 3 win Chicagio team will clinch...they lose. They then need miracle after miracle in other games to make the playoffs and do so after the miracle shappen and they impresively beat GB to win a divisioj title at 9-7 on the 3rd tie break. After a very nice win v Indy, thye are embarrassed yet again by Oak.

2003- Chad goes down in pre season and herm all but gives up the season right there. he goes even MORE conservative, doesnt allwo Vinny to take ANY chances, and we start out in a horid hole we never get out of and finsih 6-10. The first assistant gets tossed under the bus as Ted Cotrell is canned.

2004- With the biggest cupcake schedule in creation to start a season, the Jets start 5-0 (wiht 4 wins being VERY close), but lose to just about every good team they play the rest of the way, finish 10-6 and despite losing in week 17, back in when others lose. A guttu win v SD is fllowed by herm singlehandedly playing not to lose the game and putting is PK ina position to ultimately fail. We lose. Chad goes under the knife after Herm lets him play despoite a torn rotatot. Hackett is the next scapegoat as he is tossed under the bus.

2005- Herm rushed Chad back, plays an injured Martin to death, the team flaters, finiahses 4-12 and Herm, who over and over said he nevers lies and was going nowhere, orchestrates his exit to KC.

Lets also remeber his total lcak of player development, his "play not to lose" style, his embarrssing lack of clock management, his undisplined and unprepared teams, his over relance on vets to the detriment of rookie develoment, his ridiculous loyalty to certain players (see martin), his "inmates running the asylum" ways (see Donnie Abraham retirmeent drama, JA holdout, etc), and last but certainly not least his "Club Ed" traning camps.

The guy was a fraud and a phoney. he inherted a better tema then almost anyone short of george Seifert or barry Switzer did and CERTAINLY better then ANY other first time head coach has in decades. He rode that team until it could be ridden no more...and then he bolted.

You Hermy Lovers will come up wiht any excuses you can. never mond that the playoffs were expanded to 6 teams during his tenure, you'll mention that no other jets HC took the team to the playoffs 3 of 4 years. Never mnd the fact that the team was .500 or better the 4 years before he got there, you'll mention his teams won more games then Gorh's or Parcells (save for 1998) did. Never mond that the foundation of his team was no different then the one Parcells built,

The question I used to love asking Hermy Lovers during his hey day was...exactly waht does Herm do? he had no coordinator experience, he knew noting about offense, he was never a strategist, he had a veteran DC and let hackett run the O on game day (with general oversight at best)...what exactly did HE do to make th team better? he was suppossedly suvh a great motivator...yet our teams came out flat year after year and dropped several "easy yet impiortant" games. The ONLY times his teams played well was whe their backs were against the wall a la 2001 and 2002. Motivator? Preacher was more like it. BL, he did nothing but ride some talent, rely on expericned players and assistants, and then bolted when it became apparant he was ging to be exposed.

Defend him all you like if it makes you feel better but he WILL be fired i KC wihtin the next 2 seasons when they find out that he CAN'T build a team and is in fact the same inept coach he was in NY.

[SouthernJet]

The question I used to love asking Hermy Lovers during his hey day was...exactly waht does Herm do? he had no coordinator experience, he knew noting about offense, he was never a strategist, he had a veteran DC and let hackett run the O on game day (with general oversight at best)...what exactly did HE do to make th team better? he was suppossedly suvh a great motivator...yet our teams came out flat year after year and dropped several "easy yet impiortant" games. The ONLY times his teams played well was whe their backs were against the wall a la 2001 and 2002. Motivator? Preacher was more like it. BL, he did nothing but ride some talent, rely on expericned players and assistants, and then bolted when it became apparant he was ging to be exposed.

.

POTW nominee

[nyjunc]

It truly amazes me the lengths Hermy Lovers will go to defend his legacy here and attempt to validate their support of him. The above is a wonderful example of manipulaton of facts to achieve that goal. But an objective eye is all thats needed to blow holes ion the "Defend hermy Crowd". Lets go year by year shall we???

if you guys were being objective you wouldn't be spouting this nonsense. YOU are manipulating, I am giving facts.

2000- The jets go 9-7 after a 6-1 start. They are 9-5 wiht two games to go and blow an easy FG that would have tied a lousy Det team and then a Vinny int screws up what looked to be a win over Balt. team finishes 9-7, misses the playoffs, Groh quits, Herm is hired.

They lost 6 of 9 games, 4 of the 9 we won were on miracle comebacks. They allowed Vinny to throw 25 INts. Bad coaching kept us out of the playoffs in 2000.

2001- Herm inherits a team that was .500 or better the prvious 4 seasons including an AFC title game in 1998.

and a team that made ONE playoff apperance in those 4 years.

The core of the team is essentialy in tact wiht a vetran QB (and a#1 in waiting), all pro RB, a new #1 pick at WR (Moss), Chrebet, Coles, a #1 at TE, and an intact OL with Mawae, Fabini, Elliott, Young, Thomas and Mawae on it. On D he has Ellis, JA, Fergy, Lewis, JOnes, farrior, Glenn, Coleman, and Green. His team starts poorly, is WILDLY inconsistent all year, cant stop the run, loses BADLY in many games. They lose a HORRID game to 2 win BUfalo at HOME that would have clinched a playoff spot only to rely on a 56 yard Hall FG in the last week to get in as the 6 seed. Thye then get embarassed in rd

a vet QB that was old and coming off a bad season, the new #1 pick at Wr was not left to Herm, chrebet was nearing the end and was not a true 1 or 2, Coles was yet to make a name for himslef in the NFL, the Ol was good but getting old, ferguson had been disappoitning for years, Mo and Marvin were old and expensive, Glenn was expensive, coleman sucked, Green was winding down, Farrior had 1 big year and that was under Herm.

wildly inconsistent all year? they won 10 games and won 7 of their last 10- that's pretty consistent. yeah we lost a bad game at home to buf just as we lost a bad game at home to Indy in 1997, a bad game at indy in 1998, a bad game at NYg at '99 and a bad game to det in '00. It happens but unlike '97 and '00 we bounced back from that bad loss and made the playoffs.

We weren't embarrassed in rd 1, if we stop oak on that 3rd down we have the ball w/ time down by a TD. We were in that game until the final mins, I guess you must think we got humiliated at NE this year.

2002- Off season changes on D as Herm dismantles his secondary, blamijg personell for the defensive woes. O remians the same. Anohter horrid start saved ONLY when Vinny gets hurt and Chad ( a player Herm consistently said had no chance of winning the job in TC) saves the season. Still the team is 8-6 and a win v a terrible 3 win Chicagio team will clinch...they lose. They then need miracle after miracle in other games to make the playoffs and do so after the miracle shappen and they impresively beat GB to win a divisioj title at 9-7 on the 3rd tie break. After a very nice win v Indy, thye are embarrassed yet again by Oak.

we had no choice but to let guys go b/c we were in cap hell. Thank god for the expansion draft and the deal we made w/ Houston so we could get under the cap.

the o was horrid early b/c 4/5 of the Ol was hurt and Curtis got hurt in week 1. as we got healthier and Chad came in we took off.

needed a miracle? we whooped NE at NE then whooped 12-3 GB playing for homefield. Embarrassed by Oak again? It was 10-10 late in the 3rd, we were down by a TD in the 4th. Again you must think we got humiliated by NE this year- does herm get the blame for that too?

2003- Chad goes down in pre season and herm all but gives up the season right there. he goes even MORE conservative, doesnt allwo Vinny to take ANY chances, and we start out in a horid hole we never get out of and finsih 6-10. The first assistant gets tossed under the bus as Ted Cotrell is canned.

W/ the cap still a concern we lost alot of players via FA then Chad goes down a week before the season. cottrell deserved to get fired.

2004- With the biggest cupcake schedule in creation to start a season, the Jets start 5-0 (wiht 4 wins being VERY close), but lose to just about every good team they play the rest of the way, finish 10-6 and despite losing in week 17, back in when others lose. A guttu win v SD is fllowed by herm singlehandedly playing not to lose the game and putting is PK ina position to ultimately fail. We lose. Chad goes under the knife after Herm lets him play despoite a torn rotatot. Hackett is the next scapegoat as he is tossed under the bus.

the biggest cupcake sched to start a season? We beat 12-4 SD and 9-7 Buf dutring that stretch. We gave SD their only loss at home during the reg season.

The k has to make that kick, blame herm all you want but why doesn't herm get credit for his team even having a chance playing w/ an injured QB on the road against a 1 loss team?

2005- Herm rushed Chad back, plays an injured Martin to death, the team flaters, finiahses 4-12 and Herm, who over and over said he nevers lies and was going nowhere, orchestrates his exit to KC.

He did an outstanding job, the team never quit. Lombardi couldn't have won 6 games w/ that injured team.

Lets also remeber his total lcak of player development,

like w/ Coles, Chad, Moss, Ellis, Abe, Rhodes, Robertson, moore, hobson, Vilma, etc...?

his "play not to lose" style, his embarrssing lack of clock management, his undisplined and unprepared teams, his over relance on vets to the detriment of rookie develoment, his ridiculous loyalty to certain players (see martin), his "inmates running the asylum" ways (see Donnie Abraham retirmeent drama, JA holdout, etc), and last but certainly not least his "Club Ed" traning camps.

When did he sit rookies that deserved to play? he played alot of youg guys, certain players take time to develop.

The guy was a fraud and a phoney. he inherted a better tema then almost anyone short of george Seifert or barry Switzer did and CERTAINLY better then ANY other first time head coach has in decades. He rode that team until it could be ridden no more...and then he bolted.

yep we had won the SB the year before he was hired just like Seifert and Switzer:yahoo: He took over a team w/ no PO appearances in 3 years and ONE in 9 years.

You Hermy Lovers will come up with any excuses you can. never mond that the playoffs were expanded to 6 teams during his tenure

Do you follow football? the playoffs were expanded in 1990. The format changed in 2002 to make it MORE difficult for non div champs to get in and he still made it 2 of 4 years under that format.

you'll mention that no other jets HC took the team to the playoffs 3 of 4 years. Never mnd the fact that the team was .500 or better the 4 years before he got there

how many PO appearances in those 4 years at .500 or better?

[nyjunc]

POTW nominee

must you post this after every anti-Herm post?

[SouthernJet]

must you post this after every anti-Herm post?

if it is a great post that illustrates counter opinion then yes.

are you now against freedom of speech?

[afosomf]

must you post this after every anti-Herm post?

Seriously Nyjunc are you related to the "Turd" if so i understand your right

to defend family... If not you are better served going to KC Huddle and start defending him over there as he is starting to lose the resolve of the KC

faithful.

Defending the turd here is a waste of your time and energy, cause if Herm looks like a turd, and acts like a turd, he probably is a "Turd"!!!!!!!!!

[SouthernJet]

Defending the turd here is a waste of your time and energy, cause if Herm looks like a turd, and acts like a turd, he probably is a "Turd"!!!!!!!!!

POTW nominee

[MSGold12]

if you guys were being objective you wouldn't be spouting this nonsense. YOU are manipulating, I am giving facts.

They lost 6 of 9 games, 4 of the 9 we won were on miracle comebacks. They allowed Vinny to throw 25 INts. Bad coaching kept us out of the playoffs in 2000.

and a team that made ONE playoff apperance in those 4 years.

a vet QB that was old and coming off a bad season, the new #1 pick at Wr was not left to Herm, chrebet was nearing the end and was not a true 1 or 2, Coles was yet to make a name for himslef in the NFL, the Ol was good but getting old, ferguson had been disappoitning for years, Mo and Marvin were old and expensive, Glenn was expensive, coleman sucked, Green was winding down, Farrior had 1 big year and that was under Herm.

wildly inconsistent all year? they won 10 games and won 7 of their last 10- that's pretty consistent. yeah we lost a bad game at home to buf just as we lost a bad game at home to Indy in 1997, a bad game at indy in 1998, a bad game at NYg at '99 and a bad game to det in '00. It happens but unlike '97 and '00 we bounced back from that bad loss and made the playoffs.

We weren't embarrassed in rd 1, if we stop oak on that 3rd down we have the ball w/ time down by a TD. We were in that game until the final mins, I guess you must think we got humiliated at NE this year.

we had no choice but to let guys go b/c we were in cap hell. Thank god for the expansion draft and the deal we made w/ Houston so we could get under the cap.

the o was horrid early b/c 4/5 of the Ol was hurt and Curtis got hurt in week 1. as we got healthier and Chad came in we took off.

needed a miracle? we whooped NE at NE then whooped 12-3 GB playing for homefield. Embarrassed by Oak again? It was 10-10 late in the 3rd, we were down by a TD in the 4th. Again you must think we got humiliated by NE this year- does herm get the blame for that too?

W/ the cap still a concern we lost alot of players via FA then Chad goes down a week before the season. cottrell deserved to get fired.

the biggest cupcake sched to start a season? We beat 12-4 SD and 9-7 Buf dutring that stretch. We gave SD their only loss at home during the reg season.

The k has to make that kick, blame herm all you want but why doesn't herm get credit for his team even having a chance playing w/ an injured QB on the road against a 1 loss team?

He did an outstanding job, the team never quit. Lombardi couldn't have won 6 games w/ that injured team.

like w/ Coles, Chad, Moss, Ellis, Abe, Rhodes, Robertson, moore, hobson, Vilma, etc...?

When did he sit rookies that deserved to play? he played alot of youg guys, certain players take time to develop.

yep we had won the SB the year before he was hired just like Seifert and Switzer:yahoo: He took over a team w/ no PO appearances in 3 years and ONE in 9 years.

Do you follow football? the playoffs were expanded in 1990. The format changed in 2002 to make it MORE difficult for non div champs to get in and he still made it 2 of 4 years under that format.

how many PO appearances in those 4 years at .500 or better?

I'm not sure what is more amazing, the amoutn of propoganda a Hermy Lover will spew in order to protect the Fraud or the fact that someone who avctually defends this guy has the audacity to ask me if "I follow football".

Fine...you think hes a good coach. I ask yuo the same question I posed to the hermy Lovers way back when. You want me to give him "credit" for things...OK, tell me what he did that HE shuold get credit for.

And you can throw out as many menaingless stats or w-l records as you like. You can throw out playioff appearances, condemn the players, whatever. It wont change these non-arguable facts.

1. Herm was handed a team that was playoff ready...sonehting almost NO other first time HC has ever been handed.

2. Herm did noting to IMPROVE that team over his 5 years...he merely rode it until it dropped.

3. The man was a hypocrite. He screamed "you play to win the game"...yet always played not to lose the game. He preached honor and honesty...then lied and manipulated his way out of NY to KC.

But hey...keep defending him. When he gets canned after destroying KC you can go to KC baords and tell Chief fans how they hadnt made the playoffs in years before Herm got there.

[johnny green balls]

Strange Injuries Plague KC, Herm says Mere Conincidence

Kansas City's brass have been quiet about a strange new type of injury that has already striken 4 Chiefs players in the past 12 months but no one is blaming "Club Ed" Training Camps just yet. But an anonymous source within the organization says, "It's definitely ironic that we've seen so many grilling-related injuries this year but we believe it has to do with the retirement of Willie Roaf and the ironclad rule that you never yank a dizzy and underperforming vet QB for a guy who throws 11 Tds and 1 int over 5 games." Will this trend continue as the weather warms and Herm recalls his players back to Kansas City? Only time with tell... although more than one starting player has vowed to wear his helment whenever Herm gets near the Webber.

An unidentified Chiefs practice squad player is the latest to be striken with this terrible affliction.

[afosomf]

Strange Injuries Plague KC, Herm says Mere Conincidence

Kansas City's brass have been quiet about a strange new type of injury that has already striken 4 Chiefs players in the past 12 months but no one is blaming "Club Ed" Training Camps just yet. But an anonymous source within the organization says, "It's definitely ironic that we've seen so many grilling-related injuries this year but we believe it has to do with the retirement of Willie Roaf and the ironclad rule that you never yank a dizzy and underperforming vet QB for a guy who throws 11 Tds and 1 int over 5 games." Will this trend continue as the weather warms and Herm recalls his players back to Kansas City? Only time with tell... although more than one starting player has vowed to wear his helment whenever Herm gets near the Webber.

An unidentified Chiefs practice squad player is the latest to be striken with this terrible affliction.

Looks like my man Brodie Croyle!!!!

Herm can't even teach him how to turn on the grill!!!!!!!

[johnny green balls]

Looks like my man Brodie Croyle!!!!

Herm can't even teach him how to turn on the grill!!!!!!!

poor brodie, nothing motivates like seeing the guy ahead of you on the depth chart throw 11 tds to 1 pick just to see him promptly benched!

[nyjunc]

Seriously Nyjunc are you related to the "Turd" if so i understand your right

to defend family... If not you are better served going to KC Huddle and start defending him over there as he is starting to lose the resolve of the KC

faithful.

Defending the turd here is a waste of your time and energy, cause if Herm looks like a turd, and acts like a turd, he probably is a "Turd"!!!!!!!!!

I just defend the truth and what is right. if the opinion isn't popular I don't worry about that.

Fine...you think hes a good coach. I ask yuo the same question I posed to the hermy Lovers way back when. You want me to give him "credit" for things...OK, tell me what he did that HE shuold get credit for.

he took a franchise w/ 8 playof apperances TOTAL in 40 years and guided us to 3 in 4, he took a franchise that had made the playoffs once in 9 years and missed the previous 2 before he got there and he guided us 3 in 4 years, he took a franchise w/ ONE AFC East Title and doubled that, he had us in meaningful games every year, the only yeras we weren't were injury plagued years.

1. Herm was handed a team that was playoff ready...sonehting almost NO other first time HC has ever been handed.

Mangini was handed a playoff ready team this year, we were 1 year removed from being a kick away from the AFC Title game while when Herm took over we were 2 years removed from the playoffs.

The bottom line is we MISSEd the playoffs 2 straiht years then herm gets here and magically we make it. KC MISSED the playoffs 2 years before Herm and he gets there and they magically make it.

2. Herm did noting to IMPROVE that team over his 5 years...he merely rode it until it dropped.

you guys act like we won 4 Super Bowl's, what exactly did he ride until it dropped? he took over a job where basically 5 guys declined to coach us(Parcells then BB then groh then BB declined again then Capers took his name out of the running) if we had so much talent do you think coaches would run away from us like that? of course not they would have been lining up to coach us.

3. The man was a hypocrite. He screamed "you play to win the game"...yet always played not to lose the game. He preached honor and honesty...then lied and manipulated his way out of NY to KC.

he did lie his way out of NY but be thankful that he did or he'd still be here.

But hey...keep defending him. When he gets canned after destroying KC you can go to KC baords and tell Chief fans how they hadnt made the playoffs in years before Herm got there.

I couldn't care less about what he dos in KC, if he never wins another game it won't change the facts that he did a good job for us.

[BP]

if it is a great post that illustrates counter opinion then yes.

are you now against freedom of speech?

POTW NOM

[johnny green balls]

I just defend the truth and what is right. if the opinion isn't popular I don't worry about that.

he took a franchise w/ 8 playof apperances TOTAL in 40 years and guided us to 3 in 4, he took a franchise that had made the playoffs once in 9 years and missed the previous 2 before he got there and he guided us 3 in 4 years, he took a franchise w/ ONE AFC East Title and doubled that, he had us in meaningful games every year, the only yeras we weren't were injury plagued years.

Mangini was handed a playoff ready team this year, we were 1 year removed from being a kick away from the AFC Title game while when Herm took over we were 2 years removed from the playoffs.

The bottom line is we MISSEd the playoffs 2 straiht years then herm gets here and magically we make it. KC MISSED the playoffs 2 years before Herm and he gets there and they magically make it.

you guys act like we won 4 Super Bowl's, what exactly did he ride until it dropped? he took over a job where basically 5 guys declined to coach us(Parcells then BB then groh then BB declined again then Capers took his name out of the running) if we had so much talent do you think coaches would run away from us like that? of course not they would have been lining up to coach us.

he did lie his way out of NY but be thankful that he did or he'd still be here.

I couldn't care less about what he dos in KC, if he never wins another game it won't change the facts that he did a good job for us.

****tiest potw nom

[MSGold12]

I just defend the truth and what is right. if the opinion isn't popular I don't worry about that.

he took a franchise w/ 8 playof apperances TOTAL in 40 years and guided us to 3 in 4, he took a franchise that had made the playoffs once in 9 years and missed the previous 2 before he got there and he guided us 3 in 4 years, he took a franchise w/ ONE AFC East Title and doubled that, he had us in meaningful games every year, the only yeras we weren't were injury plagued years.

Mangini was handed a playoff ready team this year, we were 1 year removed from being a kick away from the AFC Title game while when Herm took over we were 2 years removed from the playoffs.

The bottom line is we MISSEd the playoffs 2 straiht years then herm gets here and magically we make it. KC MISSED the playoffs 2 years before Herm and he gets there and they magically make it.

you guys act like we won 4 Super Bowl's, what exactly did he ride until it dropped? he took over a job where basically 5 guys declined to coach us(Parcells then BB then groh then BB declined again then Capers took his name out of the running) if we had so much talent do you think coaches would run away from us like that? of course not they would have been lining up to coach us.

he did lie his way out of NY but be thankful that he did or he'd still be here.

I couldn't care less about what he dos in KC, if he never wins another game it won't change the facts that he did a good job for us.

Wow...you are truly dillusional.

You really think the mess that mangini inherited in 2006 was on a par wiht the team that herm inherited in 2001???? Even the most BLIND Hermy Lovers I know have never made a statement like that. Again...you ask ME if I folow football?? LOL!!!

And so the act that we had crapy coaches like Hotlz, Walton and Coslet who couldnt build a winner somehow factots into valuating Herm? Or the fact that Herm was handed a team built by one of the best coaches of all time...that doesnt get factored in either??? So just because th team had a rappy past, the bar ghets loweered to give Hermy credit for average results?

The "Goden Era" of jets football was been 1997-2004. Never has the team been .500 or beter for so many seasons then in that stratch. And that core team was bukit by Bill parcells...not Herman Edwards. To even insinuate that the REASON the jets made the playoffs (or KC for that matter) was Hermy jus shows how out of touch you hermy Lovers are.

And just to clarify, the REASON "no one wanted to coach us" was because of the craziness in our FO. The REASON Herm was so gung ho was because he KNEW he had NO qualifcations to be interviewed for a HC and yet (thnaks to soe outside pressure) as a minority candidate, he was interviewed...and he went on to bamboozle a novice GM and owner wiht his BS and got the job. But the talent level of the team was that of a playoff team with plenty of pro bowlers, vets all over the field and 4 recent #1s.

And so I will ask you once again...what exactly did HERM do to contribute to the success that you seem to want to give him credit for? Was he an offensive stratehist? Defensive? Motivator? Game day genius? Personell guru??? What? As usual, you Hermy Lovers duck that all important queston when defending him and trot out your usual 3 of 4 BS and such.

[afosomf]

I just defend the truth and what is right. if the opinion isn't popular I don't worry about that.

he took a franchise w/ 8 playof apperances TOTAL in 40 years and guided us to 3 in 4, he took a franchise that had made the playoffs once in 9 years and missed the previous 2 before he got there and he guided us 3 in 4 years, he took a franchise w/ ONE AFC East Title and doubled that, he had us in meaningful games every year, the only yeras we weren't were injury plagued years.

Mangini was handed a playoff ready team this year, we were 1 year removed from being a kick away from the AFC Title game while when Herm took over we were 2 years removed from the playoffs.

The bottom line is we MISSEd the playoffs 2 straiht years then herm gets here and magically we make it. KC MISSED the playoffs 2 years before Herm and he gets there and they magically make it.

you guys act like we won 4 Super Bowl's, what exactly did he ride until it dropped? he took over a job where basically 5 guys declined to coach us(Parcells then BB then groh then BB declined again then Capers took his name out of the running) if we had so much talent do you think coaches would run away from us like that? of course not they would have been lining up to coach us.

he did lie his way out of NY but be thankful that he did or he'd still be here.

I couldn't care less about what he dos in KC, if he never wins another game it won't change the facts that he did a good job for us.

Do you think Lia Got laid in 3 out of 4?

[nyjunc]

Wow...you are truly dillusional.

I think you are the delusional one and I have proven that.

You really think the mess that mangini inherited in 2006 was on a par wiht the team that herm inherited in 2001????

Absolutely. Mangini inherited a better QB(once Chad was healthy), better WRs, better TE, the OL was a little worse as was the RB obviously. he also inherited a D that 9 of 11 starters were key contrinutors on a D that almsot carried us to the title game 2 years ago. he also inherited a better K, a better P(Tupa was hurt in 2001) and better STs overall.

The talent level was comparable in waht both inherited, we were 4-12 in 2005 b/c of INJURIES. We were completely healthy this year.

And so the act that we had crapy coaches like Hotlz, Walton and Coslet who couldnt build a winner somehow factots into valuating Herm? Or the fact that Herm was handed a team built by one of the best coaches of all time...that doesnt get factored in either??? So just because th team had a rappy past, the bar ghets loweered to give Hermy credit for average results?

Parcells gets credit for building Herm's teams but herm and Tb don't get any credit for building mangini's 1st team? or Steinberg/kotite don't get credit for building Parcells' teams? Go back and look up all the talent BP inherited in 1997 when he took over.

The "Goden Era" of jets football was been 1997-2004. Never has the team been .500 or beter for so many seasons then in that stratch. And that core team was bukit by Bill parcells...not Herman Edwards. To even insinuate that the REASON the jets made the playoffs (or KC for that matter) was Hermy jus shows how out of touch you hermy Lovers are.

Yep BP built this golden era w/ the likes of Chrebet, keyshawn, mickens, Glenn, coleman, jumbo, Mo, Marvin, Green, Brady, baxter, Anderson, o'Dwyer, Moss, Jordan, Robertson, Hobson, Barton, mcCareins, Cotchery, rhodes, Vilma, Coleman, etc...

And just to clarify, the REASON "no one wanted to coach us" was because of the craziness in our FO. The REASON Herm was so gung ho was because he KNEW he had NO qualifcations to be interviewed for a HC and yet (thnaks to soe outside pressure) as a minority candidate, he was interviewed...and he went on to bamboozle a novice GM and owner wiht his BS and got the job. But the talent level of the team was that of a playoff team with plenty of pro bowlers, vets all over the field and 4 recent #1s.

OHhhhhh that's why, thanks for clearing that up. if the talent level was of a playoff team w/ plenty of PBers why did we not make the playoffs the 2 years before Herm? No one can answer this question.

And so I will ask you once again...what exactly did HERM do to contribute to the success that you seem to want to give him credit for? Was he an offensive stratehist? Defensive? Motivator? Game day genius? Personell guru??? What? As usual, you Hermy Lovers duck that all important queston when defending him and trot out your usual 3 of 4 BS and such.

He was obviously a motivator, our teams never quit uner him no matter what the circumstances. We were 1-4, 2-5 in '02 and roared back, we beat the hottest team in the league in '03(Ten) when we were done, we came back after the disappointment of the Buf lsos in '01 to beat Oak, we came back after the boneheaded Barton penalty in '04 at SD. His teams were mentally tough, they didn't committ penalties, they didn't turn it over. Maybe he wan't a master tacttician but you don't have to be to win in this league.

[johnny green balls]

Do you think Lia Got laid in 3 out of 4?

you screw to win the dame.

[MSGold12]

I think you are the delusional one and I have proven that.

Absolutely. Mangini inherited a better QB(once Chad was healthy), better WRs, better TE, the OL was a little worse as was the RB obviously. he also inherited a D that 9 of 11 starters were key contrinutors on a D that almsot carried us to the title game 2 years ago. he also inherited a better K, a better P(Tupa was hurt in 2001) and better STs overall.

The talent level was comparable in waht both inherited, we were 4-12 in 2005 b/c of INJURIES. We were completely healthy this year.

Parcells gets credit for building Herm's teams but herm and Tb don't get any credit for building mangini's 1st team? or Steinberg/kotite don't get credit for building Parcells' teams? Go back and look up all the talent BP inherited in 1997 when he took over.

Yep BP built this golden era w/ the likes of Chrebet, keyshawn, mickens, Glenn, coleman, jumbo, Mo, Marvin, Green, Brady, baxter, Anderson, o'Dwyer, Moss, Jordan, Robertson, Hobson, Barton, mcCareins, Cotchery, rhodes, Vilma, Coleman, etc...

OHhhhhh that's why, thanks for clearing that up. if the talent level was of a playoff team w/ plenty of PBers why did we not make the playoffs the 2 years before Herm? No one can answer this question.

He was obviously a motivator, our teams never quit uner him no matter what the circumstances. We were 1-4, 2-5 in '02 and roared back, we beat the hottest team in the league in '03(Ten) when we were done, we came back after the disappointment of the Buf lsos in '01 to beat Oak, we came back after the boneheaded Barton penalty in '04 at SD. His teams were mentally tough, they didn't committ penalties, they didn't turn it over. Maybe he wan't a master tacttician but you don't have to be to win in this league.

Typical Hermy Lover reposnses. Truth is...you proved nothing. You just keep parroting the same BS over and over in an atempt to make it sound like truth. To even insinuate that Mangini inherited the same type of team herm did basically destroys any credibility you have ion the sibject. Did Herm lose his feature back? Was Herms QB coming off doubel roaator surgery? Did Herm have his best pas rusher traded? His startijg pro bowl C cut? Did Herm have to start 2 rookies on the OL at the two most important ositions? Did Herm inherit a team wiht one proven CB on the entire roster? Nah...you just keep ignoring al that and stick wiht your "truth".

And i typical Hermy Lover fashion, you have to use comparisons that were never made. No, I dont give Parcels 100% creit for buildiog the team. he inherited a lot of talent too...but he coached the team up. herm coached nohting. he took a Parcells drilled group of vets, rode them to a few playoff apearances (mostly bakcing in), never got past round 2, and then bailed when it was clear he'd have to build his own team as the vets got older. Hermy Lovers like you just can't see the truth through your Hermy colored glasses.

And Herm was a motivator huh? Then why is it the ONLY time the team played wiht any passion and fire was when they were desparate...a time when ANY team is easily motivated. Al other times we came out flat and unprepared. Motivator? He couldnt motivate his players to stick to their lifting programs now could he. Motivator? His teams were a joke out of the gate excpet for 2004 when we got Palmer in his first pro start, and 4 other cream puffs to start the year.

He was an unqualified HC with no strategic skills to speak of...hell, he couldnt even manmage the dman clock! He had coordinators to fully run his O and D. He buried several young players (see Jordan, Baker, Cotchery, Hobson, etc) behind aging vets. he throw players and coaches under the bus to save his own incompetent ass. And then, when he ran out of people to blame...he bolted. There is a REASON 99% of the fans will boo the crap out of him when KC comes to NY next year. But I guess everyone is wrong and you are right...NOT!

No snese in continuing this wiht you...you're hermy Lover...thus truth and fact dont matter to you. You just keep spewing the propganda.

[nyjunc]

You are not worth arguing w/. Every post starts w/ "Typcial Herm lover response". you have brought nothintg to this argument, you have amde things up and tried to get it past me but you can't.

And Herm was a motivator huh? Then why is it the ONLY time the team played wiht any passion and fire was when they were desparate...a time when ANY team is easily motivated. Al other times we came out flat and unprepared. Motivator? He couldnt motivate his players to stick to their lifting programs now could he. Motivator? His teams were a joke out of the gate excpet for 2004 when we got Palmer in his first pro start, and 4 other cream puffs to start the year.

We weren't deseperate in 2000?

I'd rather start slow and finish strong than the opposite and the slow start thing is kind of a myth. in '01 we were 3-3, not a terrible start. In '02 we had some injuries and started slow, in '03 we lost our QB as was the case in '05. We were healthy in '04 and started great and among those 4 other creampuffs were the 12-4 San Diego Chargers who lost ONE home game during the reg season(to US) and the 9-7 Buffalo Bills.

He was an unqualified HC with no strategic skills to speak of...hell, he couldnt even manmage the dman clock! He had coordinators to fully run his O and D. He buried several young players (see Jordan, Baker, Cotchery, Hobson, etc) behind aging vets. he throw players and coaches under the bus to save his own incompetent ass. And then, when he ran out of people to blame...he bolted. There is a REASON 99% of the fans will boo the crap out of him when KC comes to NY next year. But I guess everyone is wrong and you are right...NOT!

he buried lamont? lamont playd but he played behind a HOFer, cotchery played in year 2, hobson was a starter by year 2, Baker was also a starter under Herm.

If he was so unqualified then how did we win so much in a tough division w/ a dynasty team in it?

I don't care if 99% of fans will boo him, he left on bad terms I expect boos and if I ever bothered to boo I think I would too for the way he left but overall he di a good job for us. I am very happy w/ Mangini, I think mangini can be great- i don't think Herm can be great but I know he's good.

[afosomf]

You are not worth arguing w/. Every post starts w/ "Typcial Herm lover response". you have brought nothintg to this argument, you have amde things up and tried to get it past me but you can't.

We weren't deseperate in 2000?

I'd rather start slow and finish strong than the opposite and the slow start thing is kind of a myth. in '01 we were 3-3, not a terrible start. In '02 we had some injuries and started slow, in '03 we lost our QB as was the case in '05. We were healthy in '04 and started great and among those 4 other creampuffs were the 12-4 San Diego Chargers who lost ONE home game during the reg season(to US) and the 9-7 Buffalo Bills.

he buried lamont? lamont playd but he played behind a HOFer, cotchery played in year 2, hobson was a starter by year 2, Baker was also a starter under Herm.

If he was so unqualified then how did we win so much in a tough division w/ a dynasty team in it?

I don't care if 99% of fans will boo him, he left on bad terms I expect boos and if I ever bothered to boo I think I would too for the way he left but overall he di a good job for us. I am very happy w/ Mangini, I think mangini can be great- i don't think Herm can be great but I know he's good.

"turd Luva"-- He Did not play LJ and subsequently drove CM into the perverbial Glue Factory. Cotchery hardly played at all in Yr 2, a handful of

plays all year. It was clear to me that JC was a stud and the turd preferred

a beat up Chrebet or JMAC.

[nyjunc]

"turd Luva"-- He Did not play LJ and subsequently drove CM into the perverbial Glue Factory. Cotchery hardly played at all in Yr 2, a handful of

plays all year. It was clear to me that JC was a stud and the turd preferred

a beat up Chrebet or JMAC.

A freak injury to Curtis in 2005 was his fault b/c he didn't play LJ more from '01-'04? here's a tidbit:

Curtis' carries per year under Herm: 302

Curtis' carried per year under parcells: 355

Why doesn't Parcells take any blame for wearing out Curtis?

[MSGold12]

You are not worth arguing w/. Every post starts w/ "Typcial Herm lover response". you have brought nothintg to this argument, you have amde things up and tried to get it past me but you can't.

We weren't deseperate in 2000?

I'd rather start slow and finish strong than the opposite and the slow start thing is kind of a myth. in '01 we were 3-3, not a terrible start. In '02 we had some injuries and started slow, in '03 we lost our QB as was the case in '05. We were healthy in '04 and started great and among those 4 other creampuffs were the 12-4 San Diego Chargers who lost ONE home game during the reg season(to US) and the 9-7 Buffalo Bills.

he buried lamont? lamont playd but he played behind a HOFer, cotchery played in year 2, hobson was a starter by year 2, Baker was also a starter under Herm.

If he was so unqualified then how did we win so much in a tough division w/ a dynasty team in it?

I don't care if 99% of fans will boo him, he left on bad terms I expect boos and if I ever bothered to boo I think I would too for the way he left but overall he di a good job for us. I am very happy w/ Mangini, I think mangini can be great- i don't think Herm can be great but I know he's good.

Typical Hermy Lover response.

[MSGold12]

A freak injury to Curtis in 2005 was his fault b/c he didn't play LJ more from '01-'04? here's a tidbit:

Curtis' carries per year under Herm: 302

Curtis' carried per year under parcells: 355

Why doesn't Parcells take any blame for wearing out Curtis?

Uh....because he didnt have a #2 pick stud like Lamont Jordan playing behind him like there was when when hermy was coach. Not to mention Martin was YOUNGER...but why let facts get in the way of a good Hermy Lover defense????