More whistling past the graveyard

[Preston Howley III]

I thini your analysis is dead n about Herm. Well said.

Parcells was far from perfect...specifcally as a GM. But to even compare Herym to Tna as a game day coach or stretgist is comical.

Parcells had his blunders (1997 v Detroit, going with Mirer, etc) but overall (his drafting aside) he did a very good job as a HC taking a 1-15 team to an AFC title game 2 years later. He left alot to be desired as a GM wiht his poor drafting and slaary cap handling.

Edwards never built anyting, never got past round 2 of the playoffs, was a useless strategist ad game day coach. The onyl thin the two have in common is they both bolted on us. That aside, mentioning Hermy and Tuna in the same setence is ridiculous.

And I love how Hermy supporters always have to use comparisons to bolster thir case. Tell them just making the playoffs is no great accomplishemt and they'll tell you Herm made it more then any other Jet coach. As if our teams wreched past has lowerd the bar so much that merely making the playoffs somehow equates to superlative results.

The thing that kills me the most with the Hermaphile mantra of "playoffs 3 out of 5 seasons" is they conveniently dismiss the disasters in 2003 and 2005 as abberations simply because Herm "didn't have Chad" but Chad wasnt the QB in 2001, Vinny was, so why should Herm get a pass for 2003 when he had Vinny on the roster? In fact, the moron pulled Vinny with a 10-0 lead in Philly that year, because he announced a week in advance Chad would inevitably come into the game, and Herm's a man of his word, so he did just that (the Jets went on to lose that one and ten more games in similar Hermesque fashion). Even more incredible is that two or three of the wins that year were actually some of the most incompetent game plans ever strategized, yet were negated by even worse performance by the opponent. Recall the last minute victory of Jax that year. Fans left the stadium in droves, and after the game Herm arrogantly quipped "they missed some pretty good football".

Bill Parcells went 8-8 with Tom Tupa, Ray Lucas and Rick Mirer. Yet Herm goes 6-10 with Vinny and Chad, and thats fine. What could poor Hermy do? His hands were tied. Chad let him down.

The 2003 6-10 season was not because Chad was injured, it was the result of piss poor training camp, horrible, pathetic game time management, and a complete inability to make half time adjustments. And even if the Hermaphiles want to hold on to that idea that Herm with a healthy Chad always got in the playoffs, well, to that I further retort that Chad's injuries were chronically the result of Herm's poor decisions concerning the O-line, and his improper rushing the player back and/or not having him commit to surgery in a proper time frame etc. Chad's wrist injury as it specifically pertains to the 2003 disaster, was acutely attributable to having Chad on the field two minutes before the half of a pre-season game, that required a rookie FB to block on a blitz assignment. I have no doubt BJ Askew didnt even so much as peruse through his playbook once up to that point, as there was no accountability to do so by Chef Edwards.

In a nutshell, Herm's legacy was being able to overcome self inflicted adversity in 2001 and 2002, blaming Chad's injuries for 2003, and then conning his way into a contract extension and pay raise. And then just for good measure, throwing his DC under the bus, when he himself should have ultimately been held accountable and fired as well for the team getting progressively worse each season he was the boss.

[jetophile]

Anyone could've followed Kotite and looked good...they had nowhere to go but up

I've said that so many times my face is turning blue just thinking about it.

[JetCane]

Jet fans should thank him for righting the ship after the Kotite disaster but we do not owe him any great debt of gratitude considering how he exited.

Agreed, and that doesnt come close to hating levels for me.

[JetsMan57]

I'll do it for him; the typos made reading your post quite the chore. Please re read before you submit. Thank you.

http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/01/16/mipellssed_wdors.html

[MSGold12]

http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/01/16/mipellssed_wdors.html

Yeah...what 57 said!!!!

Thai, either you're making trouble just to make trouble or you don't have a "human brain"!!!!

Thanks for the backup 57!!!!

[jetophile]

Agreed, and that doesnt come close to hating levels for me.

Is this where we sing Kumbaya over that self-serving slob?

[JetCane]

Is this where we sing Kumbaya over that self-serving slob?

You can perform voodoo on him for all I care.

He did as much for the Jets as any other coach who took them to the AFL or AFC CG.

(Hint: there arent too many of them out there.)

[BP]

I thought starting out 0-4 was pretty snappy. We also have no ring under Fat Parcells. Just sayin'.

This really pisses me off sometimes..no offense jetophile..but..Parcells saved the Jets franchise..and improved the team every year as coach(unlike Hermy)..those Parcells haters would have had absolutely no fun from 97-2004 if it were not for him..he was the only coach at that place and time that could have turned the franchise around after the debacle of Kotite..and I don't give a **** what anybody says..it's true.

[jetophile]

This really pisses me off sometimes..no offense jetophile..but..Parcells saved the Jets franchise..and improved the team every year as coach(unlike Hermy)..those Parcells haters would have had absolutely no fun from 97-2004 if it were not for him..he was the only coach at that place and time that could have turned the franchise around after the debacle of Kotite..and I don't give a **** what anybody says..it's true.

Hah, no, none taken. Debate and discussion is what makes things fun.

Fact remains he came here to give us a ring, didn't deliver and bailed. Yeah, fun and all that, but I should be grateful for what? It's the bailing that irks me more than anything else. Granted it's a free country which gives him the right to Nancy Up an QUIT whenever things get beyond him, and far be it from me to feel he scr*wed us something royal. Next thing you know people in Dallas will start saying Parcells means as much to Cowboys fans as Landry.

So Fat Bill goes down there, gets the Cowboys back in contention, re-ignites waning fan interest in the team, gets Jerry Jones his new Stadium. Great job, Bill, no question, and I won't take anything away from him there; but followed by...let's see now....Oh, right, that's it. "I QUIT."

I don't think anyone can argue his penchant for whipping a team into meaningful competitors. Still, Jets fans will always have differing opinions on the mess The Slob left behind vs. his 'legacy' of a fun ride that came up short.

[BP]

Fact remains he came here to give us a ring, didn't deliver and bailed.

Not true..not true at all..he came to the Jets to turn around a frickin joke of a franchise..I don't know about you..but I remember the Jets being the butt of jokes constantly on sportscenter..the Jets were a laughing stock at the time..the absolute worst team in the league..he came to the Jets to turn the franchise around..make no mistake about it..and he did..

Yeah, fun and all that, but I should be grateful for what? It's the bailing that irks me more than anything else. Granted it's a free country which gives him the right to Nancy Up an QUIT whenever things get beyond him, and far be it from me to feel he scr*wed us something royal. Next thing you know people in Dallas will start saying Parcells means as much to Cowboys fans as Landry.

So Fat Bill goes down there, gets the Cowboys back in contention, re-ignites waning fan interest in the team, gets Jerry Jones his new Stadium. Great job, Bill, no question, and I won't take anything away from him there; but followed by...let's see now....Oh, right, that's it. "I QUIT."

I don't think anyone can argue his penchant for whipping a team into meaningful competitors. Still, Jets fans will always have differing opinions on the mess The Slob left behind vs. his 'legacy' of a fun ride that came up short.

I don't give two ****s what he's doing now..I could care less..but..he made the Jets a respectable franchise in a very short amount of time..something that only he could have done at that place and time..and for that he should get a lot of credit...he also said he coached one year at a time and was only going to coach 3 years...so..he really didn't bail.

[Gainzo]

The Hermaphile's will point out that the Chiefs made the playoffs this year although they won't look at how they made it.

Herm took a 10-6 team that did not make the playoffs to a 9-7 team that made the playoffs because 4 or 5 other teams lost the last weekend!

They then set a record in the playoffs by not posting a 1st down until the 3rd quarter.

That is some damn fine coaching.

[mangenious420]

The Hermaphile's will point out that the Chiefs made the playoffs this year although they won't look at how they made it.

Herm took a 10-6 team that did not make the playoffs to a 9-7 team that made the playoffs because 4 or 5 other teams lost the last weekend!

They then set a record in the playoffs by not posting a 1st down until the 3rd quarter.

That is some damn fine coaching.

Well what do you expect from a hall of fame coach like Herman? Duh

[jetophile]

Not true..not true at all..he came to the Jets to turn around a frickin joke of a franchise..I don't know about you..but I remember the Jets being the butt of jokes constantly on sportscenter...

So what you're saying is, no ring under Parcells is what we thought we'd be getting with the hire? As to being the butt of jokes, that's nothing new to us as a fanbase. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

I don't give two ****s what he's doing now..I could care less...

I do in this regard: I don't want him anywhere near Hofstra now. I KNOW plenty of folks disagree with that sentiment.

but..he made the Jets a respectable franchise in a very short amount of time..something that only he could have done at that place and time..and for that he should get a lot of credit...he also said he coached one year at a time and was only going to coach 3 years...so..he really didn't bail.

I don't take that away from him, but that only goes so far. If Mangini gets us in great shape in 5 years and quits in such a way as to leave us in chaos, should we cannonize him? It makes no sense to me. It really doesn't. And, Parcells did absolutely bail on the Jets - unless you're referencing Dallas. I'm sticking it to him there mostly because I hate his guts. I don't think you'll find many a Dallas fan that disagrees with the sensation of a bailing, though.

[Gainzo]

Well what do you expect from a hall of fame coach like Herman? Duh

It was sarcasm, mate!

I was pissed when Herm left the Jets.

Herm leaves and all of a sudden the Pats go 1-1 against the Jets. When Herm was around I penciled in 2 wins against the Jets.

Now that you guys have a good Coach those days are over.

[BP]

So what you're saying is, no ring under Parcells is what we thought we'd be getting with the hire? As to being the butt of jokes, that's nothing new to us as a fanbase. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

I don't know how many coaches can make you a contender for a Super Bowl 2 years after going 1-15 and having to clean up the entire organization from top to bottom..do you??the Jets had no foul weather bubble..the Jets had no off-season conditioning program..he got rid of all the dead weight and set the foundation of this franchise for the next 7 years until Hermy glided off his coat tails and slid into KC..

I do in this regard: I don't want him anywhere near Hofstra now. I KNOW plenty of folks disagree with that sentiment.

I don't take that away from him, but that only goes so far. If Mangini gets us in great shape in 5 years and quits in such a way as to leave us in chaos, should we cannonize him? It makes no sense to me. It really doesn't. And, Parcells did absolutely bail on the Jets - unless you're referencing Dallas. I'm sticking it to him there mostly because I hate his guts. I don't think you'll find many a Dallas fan that disagrees with the sensation of a bailing, though.

I don't want him coming back to the Jets either..so there's one thing we can agree on..but..he really didn't bail on the Jets..he said he would coach one year at a time..and he did..

[jetophile]

I don't know how many coaches can make you a contender for a Super Bowl 2 years after going 1-15 and having to clean up the entire organization from top to bottom..do you??the Jets had no foul weather bubble..the Jets had no off-season conditioning program..he got rid of all the dead weight and set the foundation of this franchise for the next 7 years until Hermy glided off his coat tails and slid into KC.

"I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am." - Terry Malloy

I always 'thank' Parcells for that bubble, as sarcastic a thank you as it always is. All I'm saying is, I'm not as 'grateful' as some other Jets fans in my travels seem to think I should be. And there are just as many anti-Parcells detractors with far more animus than me. Deservedly so in my book. But we can agree to disagree, and it's all good. Especially since your name is Bill Parcells.

I don't want him coming back to the Jets either..so there's one thing we can agree on..but..he really didn't bail on the Jets..he said he would coach one year at a time..and he did..

Well, he may be getting his grubby, traitor, bailing hands on some consulting stint as rumor and speculation has it, which makes me fit to puke. So what happens after that is, Mangini takes us to the Superbowl, we win, and Bra Boy collects accolades all these years later because it was ALL him after all. Ain't life a b*tch.

Now Mangini is Parcells spawn to a fashion, but there's much to be said for taking what you learned and forging your own way. Deference only goes so far, and although Mangini is all for paying lip service and being grateful to his mentors, No, Sir, I don't like it. Say No To Bill! I'm having a nightmare, and I haven't gone to sleep yet. I'll go work on that now, and I'll wake up screaming in no time.

[nyjunc]

NYJUNC-

So since Edwards gave Carter a chance, it was okay to humiliate him for somethingt hatw as really Edwards' own fault?

If you're a UNC fan, you remember Jordan's title win over Georgetown. The Hoyas still had a chance at the end, but Freddy Brown of Georgetown brainfarted it away.

While the Tar Heels were celebrating, John Thompson, to his eternal credit, went over and hugged Freddy Brown. And whent he question got asked, Thompson noted the Hoyas wouldn't have been there but for Freddy Brown, and his msitake was just the last one ina series of them by the Hoyas. There's a lot of people who don't like John Thompson, and some have good reasons. But I always thought that one moment of kindness was a real plus for hm as a person.

I thought that a real man in Edwards' position, once with decency and honor, would've fessed up and taken the blame for his own failings rather than blame a very vulnerable guy who for the msot part did his job very well. But Edwards isn't a real man like John Thompson.

Humiliated him? Doesn't anyone think that play defined Carter's career? he has humiliated himself w/ his off the field problems, no one remembers what he did in that game. Thompson was consoling a college kid not a paid professional getting a 2nd chance in the game.

But when you're an unimaginitve fool trying to keep your career going, it's easier to fall back on that Warrior crap than put Jordan in there. Was this about the Jets winning football games or getting one very good(not great) player milestones?

Curtis LED THE NFL IN RUSHING his last full season and his last season w/ Lamont. It wasn't as if Curtis wasn't getting it done.

Reminder-2 NFL teams have hired a coach who's primary job is watching the clock for Herman Edwards. This is a skill you kid's Pop Warner coach grasps before the 1st day of practice. This guy is so dumb that even after they hire a guy to do the simplest of tasks for him and he still cannot get it right.

Just a reminder that future HOF HC Bill Parcells once used a clock coach and recommended it to Herm.

There is so much BS, incorrect fact and spin in your post I cant even know where to begin...so I am not going to bother.

MSG: You aren't going to bother b/c you can't.

Fine...go aherad and think herm is a great coach.

Show me one post where I called Herma great HC? if you do i'll concede the debate and we'll move on. I have NEVER called Herm great, NEVER! He is however a GOOD coach who did alot of good things w/ the Jets.

The biggest difercne is that you fools NEVER criticize the guy and have an answer for everything.

I have criticized him alot, I have done it in this thread alot. All coaches have faults so why wouldn't I criticize him? All you are doing is making things up now.

BUt I'm done. You want the last word...be my guest. BUt at the end of the day, anyone who defends that man wioht the type of passion you do is nohting but a naive, misinformed fool.

I have destroyed your weak arguments. Just read my posts and learn something instead of making things up.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters to the fanatical Herm apologists is he "gets" his teams into the playoffs. So did Joe Walton and Dave Wannstedt but the difference is, reasonable, rational, and logical people can see the big picture with Walton and Wannstedt but the good soldiers who defend Herm like to focus in on how their wasn't any unemployment or inflation from 1934 to 1943. Yeah but, what about this, that and the other thing? Oh, well, he got his team to the playoffs.

Walton inherited a team that as 30 mins from the SB. Waanstedt inherited a team that was in the playoffs 3 straight years though I do think Wanny gets a raw deal from phin fans as he took lesser teams to the playoffs in '00 and '01. he's not a great coach but he did a good job in Miami.

There's a lot ot say about the Parcells regime, good and bad.Salary cap hell for huge contracts, stuck drafting Me-shawn over Peyton

keysahnw was drfated in 1996, Peyton, had he come out, would have been drafted in 1997. We trdaed down and got Farrior and Leon Johnson instead of Peyton.

But in both 1997 and 2000, the Jets were in many ways victims of bad luck the same way Edwards was always on the beneficiary of good luck.

'97 I can buy but 2000? We were lucky to be in the race needing 4 miracle wins early in the year.

The thing that kills me the most with the Hermaphile mantra of "playoffs 3 out of 5 seasons" is they conveniently dismiss the disasters in 2003 and 2005 as abberations simply because Herm "didn't have Chad" but Chad wasnt the QB in 2001, Vinny was, so why should Herm get a pass for 2003 when he had Vinny on the roster?

vinny was pushing 40 and his best days behind him. Chad was the starter and went down, thr facts are since 2002 when Chad plays we win, when he doesn't we lose.

Record when Chad starts since 2002: 31-22

Record when Chad does not start since 2002: 8-19

In fact, the moron pulled Vinny with a 10-0 lead in Philly that year,

Incorrect. We were down 14-10 when Chad came in that game and only scored a TD on a trick play that fooled Philly. tricks can only take you so far.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20031026_NYJ@PHI

This really pisses me off sometimes..no offense jetophile..but..Parcells saved the Jets franchise..and improved the team every year as coach(unlike Hermy)..those Parcells haters would have had absolutely no fun from 97-2004 if it were not for him..he was the only coach at that place and time that could have turned the franchise around after the debacle of Kotite..and I don't give a **** what anybody says..it's true.

__________________

I love Parcells and I appreciate what he did here by turning us around(even though he put us in cap hell, walked out on us twice and cost us Belichick) but how did we improve every year when we went from 12 wins in '98 to 8 wins in '99?

The Hermaphile's will point out that the Chiefs made the playoffs this year although they won't look at how they made it.

Herm took a 10-6 team that did not make the playoffs to a 9-7 team that made the playoffs because 4 or 5 other teams lost the last weekend!

They made it by winning 9 games in a touhg division and by taking care of business in week 17 unlike a few other teams. They had far less talent this year than the previous few and made the playoffs for the 1st time in 3 years. Make fun of him for his game plan but Brian Billick is a SB winning coach, right? How did his team look at home the next week against that D?

Herm leaves and all of a sudden the Pats go 1-1 against the Jets. When Herm was around I penciled in 2 wins against the Jets.

Herm was 2-2 against NE his first 2 years and leading the Jets to a win at NE in 2002 was the reason you didn't win the division in 2002.

I don't know how many coaches can make you a contender for a Super Bowl 2 years after going 1-15 and having to clean up the entire organization from top to bottom..do you??the Jets had no foul weather bubble..the Jets had no off-season conditioning program..he got rid of all the dead weight and set the foundation of this franchise for the next 7 years until Hermy glided off his coat tails and slid into KC..

No foul weather bubble? Who cares about that. we practiced outside all year in abd weather and Mangini was considered a genious b/c of it.

We sucked no doubt about it but he walked into ALOT of talent. He knew he could turn us around quickly w/ all the talent we had.

[SouthernJet]

Hey, we can all agree that Herm is the best Caucasian/African-American Head coach in the history of the NFL, for that matter he is the worst Caucasian/African-American Head coach in the history of the NFL.

[afosomf]

nyjunc-- If herm can find someone to write his autobiography, i nominate

you to be his voice for the audio cassete version.