Are the Pats the WORST Great team in NFL History?

[SouthernJet]

They are going to another Super Bowl but in NONE of them have they been talked about as GREAT. They arenet the 86 Bears, the Steelers teams of past etc. They always eke out vicdtories and get every break in the book,

I have never seen a team (Pats) get more breaks and be the beneficiary of more mental breakdowns in my 45 years of watching football.

[ECURB]

Yes they are.

[Ten]

San Diego were the only good team this year,as soon as they went out it was obvious that this years winner was going to be the poorer team of recent superbowl winners.

[Mentos]

Yes, they are.

[Boozer76]

Listen, when you dominate the league for 4 out of 6 years in this era of parity across the league, you are a great team. They are not the best D ever, the best O ever, or the best SpT's unit ever. They arre arguably the best coached team ever but they are undoubtedly the best overall unit ever. This accomplishment is hands down the greatest of all time in the NFL. Now I must stick my finger down my throat and vomit after having admitted that. The only thing I can hope for at this point is that Belicheck decides his work is done and retires. Please for the love of Christ retire!!!

[mangenious420]

You can say they are the worst best team, though it's not saying much considering theres only a handful of teams in that cat.

[SouthernJet]

Listen, when you dominate the league for 4 out of 6 years in this era of parity across the league, you are a great team. They are not the best D ever, the best O ever, or the best SpT's unit ever. They arre arguably the best coached team ever but they are undoubtedly the best overall unit ever. This accomplishment is hands down the greatest of all time in the NFL. Now I must stick my finger down my throat and vomit after having admitted that. The only thing I can hope for at this point is that Belicheck decides his work is done and retires. Please for the love of Christ retire!!!

like i said, the Worst Great team in NFL History.

[SouthernJet]

You can say they are the worst best team, .

Hey thanks..They are the worst best team.

[mangenious420]

Hey thanks..They are the worst best team.

:badmood:

[Boozer76]

Listen, when you dominate the league for 4 out of 6 years in this era of parity across the league, you are a great team. They are not the best D ever, the best O ever, or the best SpT's unit ever. They arre arguably the best coached team ever but they are undoubtedly the best overall unit ever. This accomplishment is hands down the greatest of all time in the NFL. Now I must stick my finger down my throat and vomit after having admitted that. The only thing I can hope for at this point is that Belicheck decides his work is done and retires. Please for the love of Christ retire!!!

like i said, the Worst Great team in NFL History.

You seemd to have overlooked that statement. I think they are probably the best overall team ever.

[SouthernJet]

You seemd to have overlooked that statement. I think they are probably the best overall team ever.

oh my. no way.

steelers teams of 70s would destroy them.

49 teams of Montana and Walsh would beat them as well.

[Boozer76]

oh my. no way.

steelers teams of 70s would destroy them.

49 teams of Montana and Walsh would beat them as well.

Sorry man, it's a different game today. Players are bigger and faster than ever. Even teams of the 80's would be outmatched by today's guys so in my mind there is no competition between today's dynasties and yester-years. Relative to the competition they payed in their era, I still the the Pats have been most impressive, even with this loss tonight. JMO.

[pjam76]

Today's players get tired easier and get injure far more often. Today's players also last about 10 years less than those in the past in their careers. Too much steroids, human growth hormones and everything else.

Teams of the past would destroy the Pats..

Brady is rarely pressured, and the COlts showed they can score on the Pats defense. Imagine what the 49ers or Cowboys or Steelers would do.

[Arsis]

Today's players get tired easier and get injure far more often. Today's players also last about 10 years less than those in the past in their careers. Too much steroids, human growth hormones and everything else.

Teams of the past would destroy the Pats..

Brady is rarely pressured, and the COlts showed they can score on the Pats defense. Imagine what the 49ers or Cowboys or Steelers would do.

first thing you said that I agree with.

[James Hasty]

Hell Yeah!

[Boozer76]

Today's players get tired easier and get injure far more often. Today's players also last about 10 years less than those in the past in their careers. Too much steroids, human growth hormones and everything else.

Teams of the past would destroy the Pats..

Brady is rarely pressured, and the COlts showed they can score on the Pats defense. Imagine what the 49ers or Cowboys or Steelers would do.

Dude give me a break. In 85 Walter Perry was about 310-320 and he was HUGE compared to everyone else. Today the entire OL and DL are over 300 lbs. You really think Montana's line of 275lb guys are gonna block anyone in today's game? LB's of the 70's weighed about 220 lbs on average. They wouldn't be able to get past any OL in the game today. Hell, today's D lineman are almost as fast as the RB's of yester-year. I'm sorry but The worst NFL team today would likely crush the best y=teams of years past..

[Sharrow]

Dude give me a break. In 85 Walter Perry was about 310-320 and he was HUGE compared to everyone else. Today the entire OL and DL are over 300 lbs. You really think Montana's line of 275lb guys are gonna block anyone in today's game? LB's of the 70's weighed about 220 lbs on average. They wouldn't be able to get past any OL in the game today. Hell, today's D lineman are almost as fast as the RB's of yester-year. I'm sorry but The worst NFL team today would likely crush the best y=teams of years past..

If players from back then played today, they would be bigger, stronger, faster, etc. If players today played back then, it would be the same. You can't take away from a team because of that.

[pjam76]

Great players are great players.. You can't say this team would beat that team cause of weight. .More sceince, more drugs, more everything today means nothing cause in reality, as the above poster said,

If these players played back then, they'd be smaller. IF those players played now, they'd be a lot bigger.... If those players played now, they'd probably catch more balls.

It's all bs.

The truth is, in the grand scheme of things, with all things being equal cause that is what it would be, the Pats have been one of the luckiest teams. They win, I'll give them credit for that, but against those other dynasty's, it wouldn't even be close. Those teams didn't always get rid of their Super Bowl MVP WR or Kicker.

[SouthernJet]

If players from back then played today, they would be bigger, stronger, faster, etc. If players today played back then, it would be the same. You can't take away from a team because of that.

exactly.

[RSJ]

I was actually going to start a thread on this myself.

Lets break down the past dynasties of the super bowl football era.

Packers - You think of the power sweep, a great tough defense and wining with power football leading to winning touchdown runs.

Steelers - You think of long boms to Stalworth and Swann for touchdowns. Screens, and power runs by Franco Harris for touchdowns. You think of Lambert, Mean Joe, Jack Ham and others on what was atleast a top 3 defense ever.

49ers - You think of last second touchdown drives by Montana. Bone crunching hits by Ronnie Lott. Steller underrated defense. Blowout Super Bowls 55-10.

Cowboys of the 90's - You think of Troy, Emmitt and Michael dominating defenses for TD's. Haley, and Norton shuting down opponents. You also think of blowout Super Bowl Victories. Embarassing very good teams.

Pats - You think of the tuck rule, consistently getting great calls by the refs and the Kicker.

The Pats may be the worst 3 time champion in sports history.

[Boozer76]

Great players are great players.. You can't say this team would beat that team cause of weight. .More sceince, more drugs, more everything today means nothing cause in reality, as the above poster said,

If these players played back then, they'd be smaller. IF those players played now, they'd be a lot bigger.... If those players played now, they'd probably catch more balls.

It's all bs.

The truth is, in the grand scheme of things, with all things being equal cause that is what it would be, the Pats have been one of the luckiest teams. They win, I'll give them credit for that, but against those other dynasty's, it wouldn't even be close. Those teams didn't always get rid of their Super Bowl MVP WR or Kicker.

And if my aunt has balls she'd be my uncle. In your last post you said that today's players wouldn't hold up due to injuries and nt being able to stay on the field as long as those guys. Now you want to level the field and have the historic guys be as big as today's players? Which is it.? Secondly, since we're now trying to level the field and make players something they weren't in size, none of those teams would exist today if forced to play under a salary cap. So yes, I stand by my statement tht the Pats are probably the most impressive and best dynasty in the history of the game.

[SouthernJet]

I was actually going to start a thread on this myself.

Lets break down the past dynasties of the super bowl football era.

Packers - You think of the power sweep, a great tough defense and wining with power football leading to winning touchdown runs.

Steelers - You think of long boms to Stalworth and Swann for touchdowns. Screens, and power runs by Franco Harris for touchdowns. You think of Lambert, Mean Joe, Jack Ham and others on what was atleast a top 3 defense ever.

49ers - You think of last second touchdown drives by Montana. Bone crunching hits by Ronnie Lott. Steller underrated defense. Blowout Super Bowls 55-10.

Cowboys of the 90's - You think of Troy, Emmitt and Michael dominating defenses for TD's. Haley, and Norton shuting down opponents. You also think of blowout Super Bowl Victories. Embarassing very good teams.

Pats - You think of the tuck rule, consistently getting great calls by the refs and the Kicker.

The Pats may be the worst 3 time champion in sports history.

exactly my thought process when I started the thread,,the Worst Great team.

[afosomf]

And if my aunt has balls she'd be my uncle. In your last post you said that today's players wouldn't hold up due to injuries and nt being able to stay on the field as long as those guys. Now you want to level the field and have the historic guys be as big as today's players? Which is it.? Secondly, since we're now trying to level the field and make players something they weren't in size, none of those teams would exist today if forced to play under a salary cap. So yes, I stand by my statement tht the Pats are probably the most impressive and best dynasty in the history of the game.

Give me a break 3 sb wins by a total of 9 points, throw in the tuck and all the other BS calls this team gets

They are the luckiest team ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pjam76]

i give them credit for winning, but as far as history, they aren't even in the top 5.

They won too many games because of calls going against the other team or lucky breaks. While they needed to capitilize on those mistakes, in the end, they are the best dynasty in the cap era.

But that's not saying much cause it's really only been them. They do a great job of retooling and winning in the playoffs. But as I've said in the past, a missed FG, a WR's dropped ball and all those clutch stories about Brady are long gone..

The Montana's, Elways, and so on needed to make clutch plays to tie or win games.. If they didn't drive the ball 90 yards or 80 yards and score a TD, their teams would lose.

We know MOntana's story. We know Elways.

I don't doubt Brady as a great QB, but in the end, his stories are always, 20-30 yard drive, 40+ yard FG to tie or win a game.. Adam V makes the kick. Last week it was the young rookie making the kick and Troy Brown causing the Fumble.

People condemned MOntana for having the best receivers, running backs, OL, for most of his career. Even when Young took over people said Young was the better QB...

Brady's career has been nothing but roses... Everybody kisses his and the Pats behinds.. WHile he's won and is great, his defining moment is the "tuck" rule.

Plain and simple.

[Sharrow]

Well, I guess the Pats will be displaced as the greatest thing ever the next time a team wins 3 superbowls. Because the players and coaches then will probably be stronger and better than they are now.

[Boozer76]

i give them credit for winning, but as far as history, they aren't even in the top 5.

They won too many games because of calls going against the other team or lucky breaks. While they needed to capitilize on those mistakes, in the end, they are the best dynasty in the cap era.

But that's not saying much cause it's really only been them. They do a great job of retooling and winning in the playoffs. But as I've said in the past, a missed FG, a WR's dropped ball and all those clutch stories about Brady are long gone..

The Montana's, Elways, and so on needed to make clutch plays to tie or win games.. If they didn't drive the ball 90 yards or 80 yards and score a TD, their teams would lose.

We know MOntana's story. We know Elways.

I don't doubt Brady as a great QB, but in the end, his stories are always, 20-30 yard drive, 40+ yard FG to tie or win a game.. Adam V makes the kick. Last week it was the young rookie making the kick and Troy Brown causing the Fumble.

People condemned MOntana for having the best receivers, running backs, OL, for most of his career. Even when Young took over people said Young was the better QB...

Brady's career has been nothing but roses... Everybody kisses his and the Pats behinds.. WHile he's won and is great, his defining moment is the "tuck" rule.

Plain and simple.

If you want to make this a QB debate then I'll agree with you. I'm talking about team, which goes from front office all the way down to the long snapper. What this team has done, given the restrictions they have had to deal with in today's game is far greater accomplishment than any other dynasty, bar none.

[RSJ]

You can only really compare teams and players to the teams and players of that era. Then determine how much they dominated thier respective era and then rank them.

[pjam76]

So in 20 years when players are 400 pounds running 4.1 these Pats are useless cause they aren't the same size.

That's a bunch of BS.

As far as front offices, you really can't compare to the 49ers. Who won 5 SBs and were a contender for most years from like 1981 to almost 2000. Two HOF QBs, HOF WR, HOF defensive players and then Jeff Garcia and TO made the playoffs in their down years.

Who cares how they did it, the fact was, that has to be one of the best dynasty's of all time. Over 20 years that teams was a contender.

The Steelers were a contender for much of the 70's. Many HOF Players. Best defense of all time.

The Packers were a dynasty in the 60's.

The Pats are a nice story, but 2001 was more like a fluke. 2002 they missed the playoffs. 2003 and 2004 they were the best team, I'll give you that. They haven't won since then and every time they lose, it's not their faults.

Your other fluke is in the fact that yeah players now are a lot faster and better, but many of these avg players wouldn't even have made the NFL 20 years ago. There are far more bad teams these days then good teams.

Look at this years playoffs. There really wasn't a clear cut favorite or great team. No QB really played outstanding. No defense really played that great. No offense really shined.

It's become a league filled with avg teams. Most of these teams can't even compare to the avg teams back in earlier years.

Remember in the 80's there were the Giants, Dolphins, Bears, Browns, Bronco's, Oilers, Eagles, Rams, Vikings, Redskins, the list goes on. None of those teams were great, but many were far superior than most teams are today.

MOst teams today are filled with superstars who are inflated with drugs and after one bad hit, they miss half a season or miss a game due to a pinky sprain or the flu..

And back then, if you ran out of bounds, many players would knock you out. You could actually tackle a QB or WR back then.

Today's players would be looking for a flag everytime somebody looked at them.

[Sharrow]

You can only really compare teams and players to the teams and players of that era. Then determine how much they dominated thier respective era and then rank them.

You're right. Whats the point of comparing teams that aren't on a level playing field. The Pats have had better training, conditioning, coaching, nutrition, all kinds of stuff. Not to mention that they've also benefited from everything that those older teams brought to the game.

[PFSIKH]

They are going to another Super Bowl but in NONE of them have they been talked about as GREAT. They arenet the 86 Bears, the Steelers teams of past etc. They always eke out vicdtories and get every break in the book,

I have never seen a team (Pats) get more breaks and be the beneficiary of more mental breakdowns in my 45 years of watching football.

SoJet you are talking about apples and oranges.

They cannot stock pile talent like the 49ers and Steelers did. When you have a system that is desgined to restrict greatness, you cannot expect domination like the Steelers did.

[RSJ]

SoJet you are talking about apples and oranges.

They cannot stock pile talent like the 49ers and Steelers did. When you have a system that is desgined to restrict greatness, you cannot expect domination like the Steelers did.

That is BS.

All teams had the opportunity to stockpile talent during the non free agent era. Therefor the competition also was tougher due to the allowed stockpiling and opportunity for a team to play together for a longer period of time. That makes zero difference.

[pjam76]

You can't compare...

Cause when would these teams "magically" play?

During the Pats era or during the 80's, 90's, 70's, 60's etc.

Rules were differnent then. QBs could actually be hit. Most players played hurt all the time and Brett Favre, while a great story, wouldn't really be that interesting of a story in an era when a sore toe probably didn't keep a player out for a season.

TOo many players today are coddled since they showed signs of talent. Many players back then had other jobs in the offseason.

So the fact is, would the games be played today or back then? YOu can't say they have to be played today cause why would they be? The Dolphins were 17-0, shouldn't they get homefield advantage over everybody else.

The 49ers, Bears, went 15-1..

Pats best season was 14-2.

So they'd have to play in a different era with different rules...

Like I said, today's players would be looking for a flag on every play, while many of those guys would be looking to end your career like the Dick BUtkuses or the Steelers D or the 85 Bears D.. Many of those guys were not known to be nice. They didn't care.

While TOm Brady goes on a magazine and hates being called "nice".

[PFSIKH]

That is BS.

All teams had the opportunity to stockpile talent during the non free agent era. Therefor the competition also was tougher due to the allowed stockpiling and opportunity for a team to play together for a longer period of time. That makes zero difference.

Why can a team play together longer? No salary cap. All teams might have had the opportunity to stockpile talent, but the smart ones also had the ability to keep it.

That is what allowed the Steelers to have a HofF QB, RB, WR, C and several HofFers on defense. Think if they operated under a salary cap they could have kept that corps together? Hell no.

AGain, they operate under different systems and cannot be judged the same.

[RSJ]

You can't compare...

Cause when would these teams "magically" play?

During the Pats era or during the 80's, 90's, 70's, 60's etc.

Rules were differnent then. QBs could actually be hit. Most players played hurt all the time and Brett Favre, while a great story, wouldn't really be that interesting of a story in an era when a sore toe probably didn't keep a player out for a season.

TOo many players today are coddled since they showed signs of talent. Many players back then had other jobs in the offseason.

So the fact is, would the games be played today or back then? YOu can't say they have to be played today cause why would they be? The Dolphins were 17-0, shouldn't they get homefield advantage over everybody else.

The 49ers, Bears, went 15-1..

Pats best season was 14-2.

So they'd have to play in a different era with different rules...

Like I said, today's players would be looking for a flag on every play, while many of those guys would be looking to end your career like the Dick BUtkuses or the Steelers D or the 85 Bears D.. Many of those guys were not known to be nice. They didn't care.

While TOm Brady goes on a magazine and hates being called "nice".

Awesome post PJam.

I'm becoming a big fan of your posts.

[RSJ]

Why can a team play together longer? No salary cap. All teams might have had the opportunity to stockpile talent, but the smart ones also had the ability to keep it.

That is what allowed the Steelers to have a HofF QB, RB, WR, C and several HofFers on defense. Think if they operated under a salary cap they could have kept that corps together? Hell no.

AGain, they operate under different systems and cannot be judged the same.

ALL TEAMS OF THAT ERA OPERATED UNDER THE SAME RULES.