Johnson not making trip to NYC

[Kidhuman]

Randy Johnson will not be returning to the Bronx this series. He is not slated to pitch this go around, so he got permission to stay behind. They say its because of travel and his bad back.

Yankee fans, you won't be seeing the ornery lefty this week.

Randy Johnson hasn't made the trip to New York for this week's Diamondbacks-Yankees series, eschewing a chance to revisit the numerous wonderful highlights of his Yankees career. On second thought, perhaps it's best he skipped a trip down Memory Lane - and Madison Avenue, for that matter.

Johnson pitched Sunday against the Red Sox and wasn't scheduled to start in this series. The decision to skip the New York trip was reportedly made by Arizona general manager Josh Byrnes and manager Bob Melvin, who worry that needless air travel will hamper the 43-year-old's surgically repaired back.

In fact, Johnson reportedly won't make another road trip this season in which he isn't scheduled to pitch. Melvin claimed Johnson didn't ask to duck the New York series or ask for the same plan that Roger Clemens enjoys with the Yankees.

"At times he's uncomfortable with it because he doesn't like what's written about it sometimes," Melvin reportedly said on Saturday. "Because it's not true that this guy is on his own program and doesn't want to make trips with us.

"It's just not the case. So hopefully that puts it all to bed."

In two years with the Yankees, Johnson won 34 games. He posted ERAs of 3.79 and 5.00 and was dealt back to Arizona last winter to be closer to his family. Despite injury issues, Johnson is 4-2 with a 3.52 ERA with the Diamondbacks.

[GM]

Randy Johnson will not be returning to the Bronx this series. He is not slated to pitch this go around, so he got permission to stay behind. They say its because of travel and his bad back.

Who the **** does randy think he is? Roger Clemens?

[anskyruben]

He's a big pussy and doesn't want to face the NY media. That's it plain and simple.

[madmike1]

He's a big pussy and doesn't want to face the NY media. That's it plain and simple.

You mean like how clemens dodged boston?

[anskyruben]

You mean like how clemens dodged boston?

So he wasn't injured ? I assume you are saying that he won't make any trips to Boston this year ? Give me a break. So according to you, he faked his injury, and will be dodging that cespool all year long . Interesting.

[madmike1]

So he wasn't injured ? I assume you are saying that he won't make any trips to Boston this year ? Give me a break. So according to you, he faked his injury, and will be dodging that cespool all year long . Interesting.

He was not going to pinch in this series WAY before he got injured.

[ECURB]

He was not going to pinch in this series WAY before he got injured.

You ,mean way before you were told about the injury... what makes you think you know the exact moment he hurt himself??? You really think they would tell you that?

[madmike1]

You ,mean way before you were told about the injury... what makes you think you know the exact moment he hurt himself??? You really think they would tell you that?

He was scheduled to start the day after the Boston series 4 days before he got hurt. And torre said on Saturday that clemens told him he was hurt before the game THAT DAY.

[anskyruben]

Ok. Let's pack Clemen's bags and send him home. He is too pussy to pitch in Boston, against the Red Sox. Give me a break.

[madmike1]

Ok. Let's pack Clemen's bags and send him home. He is too pussy to pitch in Boston, against the Red Sox. Give me a break.

I didn't say that but Johnson is getting killed in this thread for doing the EXACT SAME THING that clemens is getting a complete pass for. It's BS.

[anskyruben]

The Zonies can keep their BigBird Pelican, and I'll take Clemens on our team. I'll give Roger the pill in Yankee Stadium before I give it to Randy. He couldn't handle the NY pressure, and that's a fact .

[madmike1]

The Zonies can keep their BigBird Pelican, and I'll take Clemens on our team. I'll give Roger the pill in Yankee Stadium before I give it to Randy. He couldn't handle the NY pressure, and that's a fact .

And again we ignore 05 where he pitched the yankees into the playoffs and killed boston. I guess he co uld handle the pressure then...

[faba]

Johnson and Clemens -leaders for the special consideration given of the year awards.

[#27TheDominator]

And again we ignore 05 where he pitched the yankees into the playoffs and killed boston. I guess he co uld handle the pressure then...

I agree. We constantly blame the pressure of New York. There must be something else besides the relentless pressure of the NY media. Javy Vasquez is a good example. He couldn't handle the pressure when he was putting up all-star numbers the first half?

[madmike1]

I agree. We constantly blame the pressure of New York. There must be something else besides the relentless pressure of the NY media. Javy Vasquez is a good example. He couldn't handle the pressure when he was putting up all-star numbers the first half?

The whole new york pressure thing is just a copout for people who don't want to take the time to find out the real reasons why players succeed or fail.

[Mavrik]

It's funny that I already knew what this thread was going to turn into before I even opened it.

If I'm 43 with back problems and I have to travel across country, I'm probably going to want to stay behind too. Has nothing to do with the New York media. Why would the NY media care if he's not scheduled to pitch in NY anyway?

[Maxman]

The whole new york pressure thing is just a copout for people who don't want to take the time to find out the real reasons why players succeed or fail.

Why did Eddie Lee Whitson fail in NY?

[madmike1]

Why did Eddie Lee Whitson fail in NY?

Because he just wasn't a very good pitcher and was inconsistent his whole career even before he came to the yankees and after he left.

[Maxman]

Because he just wasn't a very good pitcher and was inconsistent his whole career even before he came to the yankees and after he left.

Too funny. His ERA went up over 2 runs in his time in NY. He couldn't pitch in home games for the Yankees because he couldn't handle the fans. You are younger. So maybe you don't know\remember. But playing for the Billy Martin Yankees -- that was pressure. Like the players today have never seen. Having to fist fight your manager is not something many people are used to. Eddie Lee couldn't deal with that pressure.

I am not saying the "pressure" isn't overrated. I don't think that Randy is a guy that pressure gets to. Sure the media makes him grumpy. But to say that nobody ever fails because of the pressure is not true either.

[madmike1]

Too funny. His ERA went up over 2 runs in his time in NY. He couldn't pitch in home games for the Yankees because he couldn't handle the fans. You are younger. So maybe you don't know\remember. But playing for the Billy Martin Yankees -- that was pressure. Like the players today have never seen. Having to fist fight your manager is not something many people are used to. Eddie Lee couldn't deal with that pressure.

I am not saying the "pressure" isn't overrated. I don't think that Randy is a guy that pressure gets to. Sure the media makes him grumpy. But to say that nobody ever fails because of the pressure is not true either.

In 83 with the Padres his ERA was 4.30 than he had an above average year in 84 before the yankees signed him in 85. It was pretty clear from that rest of his career and his abysmal k9 and KBB rates that 84 was the aberration not 83. 83 (a 4.30 ERA in the NL) was the kind of pitcher he was and that translated to a 4.88 ERA his first year with the yankees which is pretty much the same thing when you take DH vs noDH into account. From 78 to 83 he alternated good and bad years. The guy just wasn't that good. It's as simple as that.

[Maxman]

In 83 with the Padres his ERA was 4.30 than he had an above average year in 84 before the yankees signed him in 85. It was pretty clear from that rest of his career and his abysmal k9 and KBB rates that 84 was the aberration not 83. 83 (a 4.30 ERA in the NL) was the kind of pitcher he was and that translated to a 4.88 ERA his first year with the yankees which is pretty much the same thing when you take DH vs noDH into account. From 78 to 83 he alternated good and bad years. The guy just wasn't that good. It's as simple as that.

Yeah and the year he had the era close to 7 was because they hit some balls hard with the bases loaded. If you discount that it all works out.

Nobody is saying he is great. He could not deal with the fans. This is well documented. They didn't pitch him for home games. But NY pressure had nothing to do with it.

[madmike1]

Yeah and the year he had the era close to 7 was because they hit some balls hard with the bases loaded. If you discount that it all works out.

Nobody is saying he is great. He could not deal with the fans. This is well documented. They didn't pitch him for home games. But NY pressure had nothing to do with it.

They were obviously fooled by his 84 season. The guy wasn't very good.

[Maxman]

They were obviously fooled by his 84 season. The guy wasn't very good.

Mike --

He had good years before and after the Yankees. He had bad years also. But at no time was he as bad as he was with the Yankees. He couldn't pitch at home. Forgot about the contract.

If a pitcher has his worst years for a team and can't pitch in front of those fans, what do you chalk that up to?

[madmike1]

Mike --

He had good years before and after the Yankees. He had bad years also. But at no time was he as bad as he was with the Yankees. He couldn't pitch at home. Forgot about the contract.

If a pitcher has his worst years for a team and can't pitch in front of those fans, what do you chalk that up to?

his first year with the yankees his ERA+ was 83. 2 years before that his ERA+ was 81. 2 years before that it was 85.

83 seems right in the range of what came before it to me. He had one ok year one bad year his whole career for the most part.

And in 86 when he was let go in the middle of the season he pitched 37 IP with the yankees and was terrible but than he went to SD and was just as bad in twice as many innings.

[Maxman]

his first year with the yankees his ERA+ was 83. 2 years before that his ERA+ was 81. 2 years before that it was 85.

83 seems right in the range of what came before it to me. He had one ok year one bad year his whole career for the most part.

And in 86 when he was let go in the middle of the season he pitched 37 IP with the yankees and was terrible but than he went to SD and was just as bad in twice as many innings.

I have no idea what ERA+ is. Bill James isn't here to explain it to me so I will have to look it up later. The bottom line is this -- have GAVE UP more runs per game for the Yankees than he did at any point in time in his career. He couldn't pitch home games.

Yet you insist that the pressure of NY had nothing to do with it. You are the only person in the world that would take this stance.

[madmike1]

I have no idea what ERA+ is. Bill James isn't here to explain it to me so I will have to look it up later. The bottom line is this -- have GAVE UP more runs per game for the Yankees than he did at any point in time in his career. He couldn't pitch home games.

Yet you insist that the pressure of NY had nothing to do with it. You are the only person in the world that would take this stance.

ERA+ is just his ERA adjusted against league avg which is 100. It's as simple as it gets. the fact is that he was worse in relation to the league he was pitching in 2 years before he came to the yankees than he was with the yankees in 85.

[Maxman]

ERA+ is just his ERA adjusted against league avg which is 100. It's as simple as it gets. the fact is that he was worse in relation to the league he was pitching in 2 years before he came to the yankees than he was with the yankees in 85.

That explains it then. He gave up close to 7 runs a game that year that he couldn't pitch at home because he was too nervous. But the pressure had nothing to do with it. It was a league wide trend.

The fact that when he was in the NL later in his career and had 2 beat reporters covering his team again when he gave up less than 3 runs per game has nothing to do with it.

Thanks for clearing this up. What is funny about the #s though is that when you look at them AFTER the fact, stuff can get lost in the translation. I watched Whitson pitch in person. I saw a man who was afraid. But hey, they are all line drives in the box score.

[madmike1]

That explains it then. He gave up close to 7 runs a game that year that he couldn't pitch at home because he was too nervous. But the pressure had nothing to do with it. It was a league wide trend.

The fact that when he was in the NL later in his career and had 2 beat reporters covering his team again when he gave up less than 3 runs per game has nothing to do with it.

Thanks for clearing this up. What is funny about the #s though is that when you look at them AFTER the fact, stuff can get lost in the translation. I watched Whitson pitch in person. I saw a man who was afraid. But hey, they are all line drives in the box score.

He gave up 7 runs a game because at that time he wasn't very good. Thats it. How do you explain him pitching just as bad in the 73IP in SD in 1986 as he did in 37 IP with the yankees?

[shawn306]

Which is the main reason why you can take all these Bill James numbers and basically throw them out the window.

Baseball is alot more than just numbers.

Bill James is the devil.

[Bob]

Honestly, if he wasn't going to pitch, who cares?

[madmike1]

Which is the main reason why you can take all these Bill James numbers and basically throw them out the window.

Baseball is alot more than just numbers.

Bill James is the devil.

Sabermetric evaluation works and the teams that use it win.

[Bob]

All sabremetrics does is let fantasy baseball nerds pretend they know more than actual baseball guys. You're the poster boy for that particular affliction.

[shawn306]

Sabermetric evaluation works and the teams that use it win.

I'm sure that just about everyone uses it to a point. But to completely rely on it does not guarantee you a winner.

It is a tool. Not the know all end all to every thing baseball is.

Another thing on Whitson...

While not the greatest of pitchers I did find it kind of strange that after he left New York he had his best years back in San Diego.

1988 13-11 ERA 3.77

1989 16-11 ERA 2.66

1990 14-9 ERA 2.60

Walk went back down after he came back to SD and K went back up.

Maybe he found himself again. Maybe he found a good pitching coach, I think more than anything he got himself out of New York and out of Billy Martin's reach.

[Maxman]

All sabremetrics does is let fantasy baseball nerds pretend they know more than actual baseball guys. You're the poster boy for that particular affliction.

Bob --

I didn't want to brag. But my Son's baseball team is about to qualify for the League Championship. No big deal you say. But if you saw the OPS of this team and the things they have accomplished in spite of these odds, you would be teary eyed.

I ran their #s and they are bad. In late inning pressure situations they are terrible. With RISP after the 7th inning they haven't had a hit all year. Granted they play 6 innings but these formulas are battle tested and time proven.

The kids just aren't getting it done. No way would they have the same success next year. It is a lucky streak nothing else. Immediately after them winning it all I am going to break up this team. Can't have a bunch of below average OPS kids on my team.

I JUST WON'T STAND FOR ANY OF THAT.

[Bob]

Bob --

I didn't want to brag. But my Son's baseball team is about to qualify for the League Championship. No big deal you say. But if you saw the OPS of this team and the things they have accomplished in spite of these odds, you would be teary eyed.

I ran their #s and they are bad. In late inning pressure situations they are terrible. With RISP after the 7th inning they haven't had a hit all year. Granted they play 6 innings but these formulas are battle tested and time proven.

The kids just aren't getting it done. No way would they have the same success next year. It is a lucky streak nothing else. Immediately after them winning it all I am going to break up this team. Can't have a bunch of below average OPS kids on my team.

I JUST WON'T STAND FOR ANY OF THAT.

How is the WHIP for the pitching staff?