shawn306 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 How is the WHIP for the pitching staff? You have to ask Mrs. Max about the WHIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonJet Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 How is the WHIP for the pitching staff? I was actually curious about the adjusted ERA +/- 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 How is the WHIP for the pitching staff? Our WHIP is exceptional. I think that is the only thing that keeps us alive. They don't walk batters. But the aggregate defensive range allowance factor doesn't seem to be a good indication of what this team is all about. Conventional wisdom says that 12 year olds should be at a ADRAF of .495 at most. Yet in late inning pressure situations they routinely surpass .600. I know it isn't possible you say. Sometimes my friend the #'s lie. Especially in cumulative efforts I find realistic thresholds are often set too low. Call me crazy. But I know what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I absolutely love the fact that the sabermetrics geeks on this site (who shall remain nameless) are considred to be a joke just as they are in real life. I've got to give props to Max, Shawn, Mason, and SD for keeping it real. I LOVE real baseball discussions with baseball fans who know their stuff as opposed to those who think they're smarter than everybody else because they have a love affair with Billy Beane (who by the way hasn't wont a ****in thing in all his years)...JMO of course Very Respectfully, AFJF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Mike, you have got to stop taking sabermetrics to heart. It is simply not the end all be all trump card you make it out to be. At the same time, dumping all over the sabermetric numbers is foolish because we do know that actual MLB teams take sabermetrics as really valuable info. But I dont think they are exactly fallen in love with it as much as mike is. There needs to be a balance, mike. Saying things like Giambi has giving the Yankees 4 HOF seasons is and is the 2nd best hitter on the Yankees, is alittle ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonJet Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Our WHIP is exceptional. I think that is the only thing that keeps us alive. They don't walk batters. But the aggregate defensive range allowance factor doesn't seem to be a good indication of what this team is all about. Conventional wisdom says that 12 year olds should be at a ADRAF of .495 at most. Yet in late inning pressure situations they routinely surpass .600. I know it isn't possible you say. Sometimes my friend the #'s lie. Especially in cumulative efforts I find realistic thresholds are often set too low. Call me crazy. But I know what I see. Lies! All lies! You obviously aren't taking zone factor rating range into account. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That explains it then. He gave up close to 7 runs a game that year that he couldn't pitch at home because he was too nervous. But the pressure had nothing to do with it. It was a league wide trend. The fact that when he was in the NL later in his career and had 2 beat reporters covering his team again when he gave up less than 3 runs per game has nothing to do with it. Thanks for clearing this up. What is funny about the #s though is that when you look at them AFTER the fact, stuff can get lost in the translation. I watched Whitson pitch in person. I saw a man who was afraid. But hey, they are all line drives in the box score. But Mike has been telling us that people do not get better as they get older (see the posts dealing with Wakefield, today).!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I absolutely love the fact that the sabermetrics geeks on this site (who shall remain nameless) are considred to be a joke just as they are in real life. I've got to give props to Max, Shawn, Mason, and SD for keeping it real. I LOVE real baseball discussions with baseball fans who know their stuff as opposed to those who think they're smarter than everybody else because they have a love affair with Billy Beane (who by the way hasn't wont a ****in thing in all his years)...JMO of course Very Respectfully, AFJF So very true. The numbers may tell you Randy Johnson was OK last year in NY with the Yankees. The facts, as your eyes will tell you, are that he stunk. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I'm sure that just about everyone uses it to a point. But to completely rely on it does not guarantee you a winner. It is a tool. Not the know all end all to every thing baseball is. Another thing on Whitson... While not the greatest of pitchers I did find it kind of strange that after he left New York he had his best years back in San Diego. 1988 13-11 ERA 3.77 1989 16-11 ERA 2.66 1990 14-9 ERA 2.60 Walk went back down after he came back to SD and K went back up. Maybe he found himself again. Maybe he found a good pitching coach, I think more than anything he got himself out of New York and out of Billy Martin's reach. He got away from the pressure of the NY media and the "win-now" mentality. Plain and simple. Black and white. Even the "numbers" show this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I absolutely love the fact that the sabermetrics geeks on this site (who shall remain nameless) are considred to be a joke just as they are in real life. I've got to give props to Max, Shawn, Mason, and SD for keeping it real. I LOVE real baseball discussions with baseball fans who know their stuff as opposed to those who think they're smarter than everybody else because they have a love affair with Billy Beane (who by the way hasn't wont a ****in thing in all his years)...JMO of course Very Respectfully, AFJF You wear your ignorance as a badge of honor as always. I love how morons like you call people who are interested in Sabermetrics "stat geeks" and "jokes" when every team in baseball is using these tools more and more as the years go on. You know no more about baseball than fans in the 30s and you like it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 He got away from the pressure of the NY media and the "win-now" mentality. Plain and simple. Black and white. Even the "numbers" show this. What numbers. His year 2 years before and his 2nd half of 86 were every bit as bad and with teams not in dreaded new york. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 But Mike has been telling us that people do not get better as they get older (see the posts dealing with Wakefield, today).!!!!! Is that a shot at me? You are saying my mediocore posts will only go downhill from here, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Mike -- Did Whitson have his worst season in NY? Yes or No answer please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Mike -- Did Whitson have his worst season in NY? Yes or No answer please. His worst season in the majors was 1986 and that year he pitched 37 innings in NY and 75 innings in SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 His worst season in the majors was 1986 and that year he pitched 37 innings in NY and 75 innings in SD. What team did he start the season for that year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 What team did he start the season for that year? The yankees. But he pitched twice the innings in SD and was awful too. That proves that he was awful that whole year. Not just in NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 The yankees. But he pitched twice the innings in SD and was awful too. That proves that he was awful that whole year. Not just in NY. Why was he awful? Because he was shell shocked from his experience in NY. Mike -- did you ever seem him pitch? I sat up close and saw him interact with the fans in person. I realize you feel it is your role in life to take the other side in these debates. But I am telling you this man could not deal with the pressure of pitching in NY. That does not mean the "pressure of NY" isn't over played. I think it is. You are basically saying that no player ever played worse because of the pressure. I am saying that is not true and giving you an example. I saw him play. You didn't. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Why was he awful? Because he was shell shocked from his experience in NY. Mike -- did you ever seem him pitch? I sat up close and saw him interact with the fans in person. I realize you feel it is your role in life to take the other side in these debates. But I am telling you this man could not deal with the pressure of pitching in NY. That does not mean the "pressure of NY" isn't over played. I think it is. You are basically saying that no player ever played worse because of the pressure. I am saying that is not true and giving you an example. I saw him play. You didn't. Big difference. There is no way to prove that and because of the inconsistent nature of his career leading up to that point I don't see some complete breakdown because of the pressure of new york. Those bad years just aren't that far from his career spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 You wear your ignorance as a badge of honor as always. I love how morons like you call people who are interested in Sabermetrics "stat geeks" and "jokes" when every team in baseball is using these tools more and more as the years go on. You know no more about baseball than fans in the 30s and you like it that way. I'd be lying if I said I knew why you get away with making more personal attacks than anybody on this board but just know you're not fooling anyone. Nobody thinks you're a tough guy and nobody thinks you're the greatest baseball mind that the world has ever known. Most see you for what you are. A child with an ego and a keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Why was he awful? Because he was shell shocked from his experience in NY. Mike -- did you ever seem him pitch? I sat up close and saw him interact with the fans in person. I realize you feel it is your role in life to take the other side in these debates. But I am telling you this man could not deal with the pressure of pitching in NY. That does not mean the "pressure of NY" isn't over played. I think it is. You are basically saying that no player ever played worse because of the pressure. I am saying that is not true and giving you an example. I saw him play. You didn't. Big difference. Why is it that when I see Max trying to talk sense to Mike I envision Tom Cruise talking to Matt Lauer? "Max, Max, Max...you're so glib. I've done the research Max, I've read the books. You haven't. You have a resposibility Max as the owner of a sports web site to educate yourself about Sabermetrics if you're going to talk about baseball" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 There is no way to prove that and because of the inconsistent nature of his career leading up to that point I don't see some complete breakdown because of the pressure of new york. Those bad years just aren't that far from his career spectrum. Mike, You are right. We are wrong. Always. Signed, The World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Mike, You are right. We are wrong. Always. Signed, The World Keep in mind though Max that it only makes sense. I mean, we (the world) don't have the time to study that MadMike has because we're too busy "stalking" him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I'd be lying if I said I knew why you get away with making more personal attacks than anybody on this board but just know you're not fooling anyone. Nobody thinks you're a tough guy and nobody thinks you're the greatest baseball mind that the world has ever known. Most see you for what you are. A child with an ego and a keyboard. You whining about personal attacks is one of the funniest things i've read on this board. But I guess it's OK for you to bait me constantly and call me a stat geek or a "child" because you disagree with my methods. Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 You whining about personal attacks is one of the funniest things i've read on this board. But I guess it's OK for you to bait me constantly and call me a stat geek or a "child" because you disagree with my methods. Thanks for that. You two need to just drop it. The back and forth is old. Seriously let's talk baseball. If you think you are being baited MM just put AF on Ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 You two need to just drop it. The back and forth is old. Seriously let's talk baseball. If you think you are being baited MM just put AF on Ignore.I DO talk about baseball max. I'm never the one who starts this but i'm going to respond to the crap that he spews about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Airforcejetsfan is a 254032 but madmike1 is only a 246538 I'll take AFJF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I DO talk about baseball max. I'm never the one who starts this but i'm going to respond to the crap that he spews about me. Mike you were just banned because you wished death upon him. So spare me the innocent act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I cannot believe that Proctor is pitching the 9th, a 7-1 f'n ballgame. WTF is this? Put in Sean Henn for f's sake. Proctor is not a damn machine, he only has so many bullets in his arm every year, there is no sense in wasting him in 6 run ball games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Mike you were just banned because you wished death upon him. So spare me the innocent act. I've learned my lesson. I'm not going to let him bait me to that extent again but that doesn't mean i won't defend myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I cannot believe that Proctor is pitching the 9th, a 7-1 f'n ballgame. WTF is this? Put in Sean Henn for f's sake. Proctor is not a damn machine, he only has so many bullets in his arm every year, there is no sense in wasting him in 6 run ball games. Torre gets yelled at during 9 game winning streaks as well. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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