Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 Matt was correct all along ... the Yankees early struggles were at least every bit as attributed to spotty hitting as spotty pitching Anyone happen to notice how completely different this team looks with a combination of a torrid Matsui and a reborn Jason Giambi? Suddenly this offense looks every bit as lethal as the one we expected to see in 2005 ... bludgeoning opposing pitchers on almost a daily basis Matsui is a given ... his slow start was a complete surprise, but you knew he would catch fire eventually {and right now muh-man is scorching hot} ... but Giambi was always the X-FACTOR Let's be honest ... nobody knew if Giambi could ever regain his prior form again ... not you, not me, not his teammates, not Torre, heck, probably not even Giambi himself ... but I'll be darned if he hasn't really begun to look like the Jason Giambi who won an MVP in recent weeks And as my friends Hans & Franz would say ..... Listen to me now and hear me lata ... if Jason Giambi has indeed been reborn as certainly appears to be the case, this Yankee lineup is going to seriously bum-rush some pitchers henceforth Suddenly the meat of the order is extended with one more assassine ... Shef, Arod, Matsui, and Giambi ... with Jeter/Cano setting the table ... and a little Ruben Sierra mixed in for good measure? Brother, I wouldn't wanna face that lineup if Jason Giambi is really JASON GIAMBI once more ... I'd sooner tackle an elephant in the jungle ... and that ain't no lie With a hot Jason Giambi mixed in, that is a "pick your poison" lineup if ever I have seen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Matt was correct all along ... the Yankees early struggles were at least every bit as attributed to spotty hitting as spotty pitching Anyone happen to notice how completely different this team looks with a combination of a torrid Matsui and a reborn Jason Giambi? Suddenly this offense looks every bit as lethal as the one we expected to see in 2005 ... bludgeoning opposing pitchers on almost a daily basis Matsui is a given ... his slow start was a complete surprise, but you knew he would catch fire eventually {and right now muh-man is scorching hot} ... but Giambi was always the X-FACTOR Let's be honest ... nobody knew if Giambi could ever regain his prior form again ... not you, not me, not his teammates, not Torre, heck, probably not even Giambi himself ... but I'll be darned if he hasn't really begun to look like the Jason Giambi who won an MVP in recent weeks And as my friends Hans & Franz would say ..... Listen to me now and hear me lata ... if Jason Giambi has indeed been reborn as certainly appears to be the case, this Yankee lineup is going to seriously bum-rush some pitchers henceforth Suddenly the meat of the order is extended with one more assassine ... Shef, Arod, Matsui, and Giambi ... with Jeter/Cano setting the table ... and a little Ruben Sierra mixed in for good measure? Brother, I wouldn't wanna face that lineup if Jason Giambi is really JASON GIAMBI once more ... I'd sooner tackle an elephant in the jungle ... and that ain't no lie With a hot Jason Giambi mixed in, that is a "pick your poison" lineup if ever I have seen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 You still have to pitch. The Yankees great run was built on 5 SP's who gave you 6-7 good innings every night and then the ballgame was over with the bullpen. This current group cannot say that. Unless the Yanks pitch better, the current Sunday morning beer league style of play that they are winning at a just over .500 clip will not cut it. Good pitching will always beat good hitting, especially in the play-offs. Giambi is hot but remember....Tino was a assasin for two weeks also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 You still have to pitch. The Yankees great run was built on 5 SP's who gave you 6-7 good innings every night and then the ballgame was over with the bullpen. This current group cannot say that. Unless the Yanks pitch better, the current Sunday morning beer league style of play that they are winning at a just over .500 clip will not cut it. Good pitching will always beat good hitting, especially in the play-offs. Giambi is hot but remember....Tino was a assasin for two weeks also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 You still have to pitch. The Yankees great run was built on 5 SP's who gave you 6-7 good innings every night and then the ballgame was over with the bullpen. This current group cannot say that. Unless the Yanks pitch better, the current Sunday morning beer league style of play that they are winning at a just over .500 clip will not cut it. Good pitching will always beat good hitting, especially in the play-offs. Giambi is hot but remember....Tino was a assasin for two weeks also. GS, I tend to agree with you .. good pitching does beat good hitting .. most of the time .. but not always You need only look to our series with Anaheim a few years back, when we clearly had the superior starting pitching ... but still their offense was really rolling that year and that did not stop when they met the Yankees in the post season ... in short, their offense flatout steamrolled our pitching staff to a shocking degree I don't mean they hit us well ... I used exactly the right word ... STEAMROLLED That offense made our entire staff ... pitchers with WS pedigree up the wazoo ... take a bloody beating the likes of which no baseball fan on the planet could have expected That was a good, old fashioned, proper @$$ kickin from START to FINISH ... and NOT ONE of our pitchers could stop the bleeding ... each one of them, one at a time, took turns getting their brains beat in So yes, ordinarily good pitching beats good hitting .. but sometimes good hitting can sneak up and you and beat you to death when you least expect it There is also one other adage to consider .... It is often repeated that good pitching beats good hitting ... for the most part this is true ... but it has also been said {though rarely repeated}, GREAT HITTING beats GOOD PITCHING Now I don't know if the Angels had GREAT HITTING that year, but certainly we caught them when they were HITTING GREAT ... and that's why our entire staff {Good Pitchers all} got publicly spanked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 You still have to pitch. The Yankees great run was built on 5 SP's who gave you 6-7 good innings every night and then the ballgame was over with the bullpen. This current group cannot say that. Unless the Yanks pitch better, the current Sunday morning beer league style of play that they are winning at a just over .500 clip will not cut it. Good pitching will always beat good hitting, especially in the play-offs. Giambi is hot but remember....Tino was a assasin for two weeks also. GS, I tend to agree with you .. good pitching does beat good hitting .. most of the time .. but not always You need only look to our series with Anaheim a few years back, when we clearly had the superior starting pitching ... but still their offense was really rolling that year and that did not stop when they met the Yankees in the post season ... in short, their offense flatout steamrolled our pitching staff to a shocking degree I don't mean they hit us well ... I used exactly the right word ... STEAMROLLED That offense made our entire staff ... pitchers with WS pedigree up the wazoo ... take a bloody beating the likes of which no baseball fan on the planet could have expected That was a good, old fashioned, proper @$$ kickin from START to FINISH ... and NOT ONE of our pitchers could stop the bleeding ... each one of them, one at a time, took turns getting their brains beat in So yes, ordinarily good pitching beats good hitting .. but sometimes good hitting can sneak up and you and beat you to death when you least expect it There is also one other adage to consider .... It is often repeated that good pitching beats good hitting ... for the most part this is true ... but it has also been said {though rarely repeated}, GREAT HITTING beats GOOD PITCHING Now I don't know if the Angels had GREAT HITTING that year, but certainly we caught them when they were HITTING GREAT ... and that's why our entire staff {Good Pitchers all} got publicly spanked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching will always stop good hitting. Three starting pitchers on the DL. Gordon needed the rest. 2 1/2 behind the Sox and Yankee fans are treating this like the Sox are chasing us ? Please just chill for a bit here. The Yankees have the Sox to thank for playing just about as poorly and the Orioles for coming back to earth after a great start. As good as the offense has been on the homestand they could just as easily go back into a funk. I still think the psyche of this team is very fragile. When things are good they look like champions When things are bad they look like a Sunday Softball team playing on its third keg of beer. There is still ALOT of baseball left and with a road trip coming up that takes the Yankees to Boston, Texas and Anaheim it will be intersting to see how this team plays. They are still in need of a starter in the worst way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching will always stop good hitting. Three starting pitchers on the DL. Gordon needed the rest. 2 1/2 behind the Sox and Yankee fans are treating this like the Sox are chasing us ? Please just chill for a bit here. The Yankees have the Sox to thank for playing just about as poorly and the Orioles for coming back to earth after a great start. As good as the offense has been on the homestand they could just as easily go back into a funk. I still think the psyche of this team is very fragile. When things are good they look like champions When things are bad they look like a Sunday Softball team playing on its third keg of beer. There is still ALOT of baseball left and with a road trip coming up that takes the Yankees to Boston, Texas and Anaheim it will be intersting to see how this team plays. They are still in need of a starter in the worst way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching will always stop good hitting. Shawn, that's simply not true ... I Just gave you an example of good hitting beating good pitching to a bloody pulp ... an incident I remember all to well because it was BY FAR the worst beating the Yankees have endured throughout this entire run Every last one of our starting pitchers got his @$$ handed to him in that series ... every last one of them And again, I agree that good pitching beats good hitting most of the time ... but not all of the time ... and the fly in the oinment of that adage is the one rarely mentioned, that being "GREAT HITTING beats GOOD PITCHING" That one is not always true either ... but more often than not it takes GREAT PITCHING to beat GREAT HITTING ... GOOD PITCHING is not enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching will always stop good hitting. Shawn, that's simply not true ... I Just gave you an example of good hitting beating good pitching to a bloody pulp ... an incident I remember all to well because it was BY FAR the worst beating the Yankees have endured throughout this entire run Every last one of our starting pitchers got his @$$ handed to him in that series ... every last one of them And again, I agree that good pitching beats good hitting most of the time ... but not all of the time ... and the fly in the oinment of that adage is the one rarely mentioned, that being "GREAT HITTING beats GOOD PITCHING" That one is not always true either ... but more often than not it takes GREAT PITCHING to beat GREAT HITTING ... GOOD PITCHING is not enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 BTW Shawn, I do agree with the premise of your post in regards to the Yankees in general ... I also have to see more of what we have seen of late to be convinced that this team has truly turned a corner And I do have to see if they can stop one loss from turning into two, and then two from turning into five ... in that respect they have been a "fragile team" as you put it ... I have to see that end before I can say for certain that this team means business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 BTW Shawn, I do agree with the premise of your post in regards to the Yankees in general ... I also have to see more of what we have seen of late to be convinced that this team has truly turned a corner And I do have to see if they can stop one loss from turning into two, and then two from turning into five ... in that respect they have been a "fragile team" as you put it ... I have to see that end before I can say for certain that this team means business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Well I guess we will just disagree on this one. That Angels series was just wierd. The Angels got on a roll and basically clubbed their way to a title that year. This is the same crew that was basically shutdown by the Sox after game 3 last year in the ALCS. It is still prone to LONG periods of not hitting. (As we saw in the first half) Guys were trying to hit three run homers with every swing of the bat trying to be the man that shakes the Yanks out of their doldrums and the more they failed the more pressure they put on themselves which led to more mistakes not only at the plate but on the mound and in the field. While everyone is happy right now a puffing out their chests let's not forget that all it is going take is just a slight misstep on this road trip and they could very well be back to 6 or 7 games out. It is a tough month starting with this road trip that will take them through Boston, Texas and Anaheim. Then to finish the month they have a home stand that has Minnesota, Anaheim. Not easy. The Sox meanwhile have 6 with Tampa Bay along with meeting with the White Sox and the Twins. Like I said, still a long way to go. Starting pitching still needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Well I guess we will just disagree on this one. That Angels series was just wierd. The Angels got on a roll and basically clubbed their way to a title that year. This is the same crew that was basically shutdown by the Sox after game 3 last year in the ALCS. It is still prone to LONG periods of not hitting. (As we saw in the first half) Guys were trying to hit three run homers with every swing of the bat trying to be the man that shakes the Yanks out of their doldrums and the more they failed the more pressure they put on themselves which led to more mistakes not only at the plate but on the mound and in the field. While everyone is happy right now a puffing out their chests let's not forget that all it is going take is just a slight misstep on this road trip and they could very well be back to 6 or 7 games out. It is a tough month starting with this road trip that will take them through Boston, Texas and Anaheim. Then to finish the month they have a home stand that has Minnesota, Anaheim. Not easy. The Sox meanwhile have 6 with Tampa Bay along with meeting with the White Sox and the Twins. Like I said, still a long way to go. Starting pitching still needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching does not always stop good hitting. Not in this age. Did you guys see how the Sox won the World Series last year? They hit the crap out of the ball. Their pitching was not lights out. They steamrolled the Cardinals, who had the superior pitching. If you hit, you are going to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching does not always stop good hitting. Not in this age. Did you guys see how the Sox won the World Series last year? They hit the crap out of the ball. Their pitching was not lights out. They steamrolled the Cardinals, who had the superior pitching. If you hit, you are going to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 and thanks for the props Ham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 and thanks for the props Ham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching does not always stop good hitting. Not in this age. Did you guys see how the Sox won the World Series last year? They hit the crap out of the ball. Their pitching was not lights out. They steamrolled the Cardinals, who had the superior pitching. If you hit, you are going to win. The Cards staff last year was not as good as Bostons. Boston with Schilling and Pedro could stack up with anyone. With Lowe as hot as he was they were tough. Wakefield always seems to come up big as well. There top 4 was good. The Cards had a typical NL staff. Good pithcers not great. Throw in a few AL Journeyman and there you have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Good pitching does not always stop good hitting. Not in this age. Did you guys see how the Sox won the World Series last year? They hit the crap out of the ball. Their pitching was not lights out. They steamrolled the Cardinals, who had the superior pitching. If you hit, you are going to win. The Cards staff last year was not as good as Bostons. Boston with Schilling and Pedro could stack up with anyone. With Lowe as hot as he was they were tough. Wakefield always seems to come up big as well. There top 4 was good. The Cards had a typical NL staff. Good pithcers not great. Throw in a few AL Journeyman and there you have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 http://216.32.94.43/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4978&highlight=problem+hitting And maxman is right about last years pitching staff for the Cardinals. IMO, it was complete crap. They had 1 decent pitcher and the rest were complete crap like Suppan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 http://216.32.94.43/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4978&highlight=problem+hitting And maxman is right about last years pitching staff for the Cardinals. IMO, it was complete crap. They had 1 decent pitcher and the rest were complete crap like Suppan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 aside from the lack of consistent pitching, the one thing that scares me about this team is the way they just lay down and quit in some games. not always against overpowering pitching either - like the game against tampa a couple of weeks ago where there was just absolutely no offense. this team scores runs in bunches but at the same time they go into remarkable funks where noone can get on base or they or get a clutch hit. no womack = more offense. but i am still scared to death of posada at the plate w/2 outs and runners on and the yankees need a hit. it just doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 aside from the lack of consistent pitching, the one thing that scares me about this team is the way they just lay down and quit in some games. not always against overpowering pitching either - like the game against tampa a couple of weeks ago where there was just absolutely no offense. this team scores runs in bunches but at the same time they go into remarkable funks where noone can get on base or they or get a clutch hit. no womack = more offense. but i am still scared to death of posada at the plate w/2 outs and runners on and the yankees need a hit. it just doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 no womack = more offense. but i am still scared to death of posada at the plate w/2 outs and runners on and the yankees need a hit. it just doesn't happen. Been saying this forever. Posada is a bum. One lucky bloop single in his life. Other than that, he's never had a clutch hit in his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 no womack = more offense. but i am still scared to death of posada at the plate w/2 outs and runners on and the yankees need a hit. it just doesn't happen. Been saying this forever. Posada is a bum. One lucky bloop single in his life. Other than that, he's never had a clutch hit in his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Been saying this forever. Posada is a bum. One lucky bloop single in his life. Other than that, he's never had a clutch hit in his life. He does tend to strikeout alot. But he still produces when he gets hot. Thats the problem, he's too inconsistent. But being a catcher is tougher on you body over the coarse of the season than any other position in baseball (bench coach aside) so its understandable when he gets into an O'fer here and there. I think he leads all MLB catchers in RBIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Been saying this forever. Posada is a bum. One lucky bloop single in his life. Other than that, he's never had a clutch hit in his life. He does tend to strikeout alot. But he still produces when he gets hot. Thats the problem, he's too inconsistent. But being a catcher is tougher on you body over the coarse of the season than any other position in baseball (bench coach aside) so its understandable when he gets into an O'fer here and there. I think he leads all MLB catchers in RBIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Shawn, that's simply not true ... I Just gave you an example of good hitting beating good pitching to a bloody pulp ... an incident I remember all to well because it was BY FAR the worst beating the Yankees have endured throughout this entire run Every last one of our starting pitchers got his @$$ handed to him in that series ... every last one of them And again, I agree that good pitching beats good hitting most of the time ... but not all of the time ... and the fly in the oinment of that adage is the one rarely mentioned, that being "GREAT HITTING beats GOOD PITCHING" That one is not always true either ... but more often than not it takes GREAT PITCHING to beat GREAT HITTING ... GOOD PITCHING is not enough 01= Randy and Schilling 02 = Anaheim went 1st to 3rd on you(mostly Bernie) all series. Lackey- KRod and Percival.(Also I don't believe the Yanks had quite the thunder) 03= Beckett/Pavano/Willis/Penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Shawn, that's simply not true ... I Just gave you an example of good hitting beating good pitching to a bloody pulp ... an incident I remember all to well because it was BY FAR the worst beating the Yankees have endured throughout this entire run Every last one of our starting pitchers got his @$$ handed to him in that series ... every last one of them And again, I agree that good pitching beats good hitting most of the time ... but not all of the time ... and the fly in the oinment of that adage is the one rarely mentioned, that being "GREAT HITTING beats GOOD PITCHING" That one is not always true either ... but more often than not it takes GREAT PITCHING to beat GREAT HITTING ... GOOD PITCHING is not enough 01= Randy and Schilling 02 = Anaheim went 1st to 3rd on you(mostly Bernie) all series. Lackey- KRod and Percival.(Also I don't believe the Yanks had quite the thunder) 03= Beckett/Pavano/Willis/Penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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