This whole "He doesn't fit our scheme" thing

[shawn306]

I was thinking about this the other day and why is it it seems that only the Jets have personel issues with schemes ?

Why is it I don't see this happening with other teams. We saw it with Herm with his "Cover Who" and now we are seeing it again with Mangini.

Now I don't exactly remember what kind of defense Kotitte ran but I do remember the Jets going from the 4-3 when the Sack Exchange was around to a 3-4 when Bud Carson came in. Now some guys (Buttle, Bobby Jackson, Schroy) were pretty much done at that point when they were released but the core (Klecko, Lyons, Gastineau, Mehl) made the transition and thrived in it.

Then I look at Parcells who with BB ran a 3-4 and saw guys like Mo, Marvin thrive.

I guess the point I'm making here is why are don't we see other teams looking to move guys because they quote "Don't fit our scheme".

Are there any examples out there of teams looking to trade guys that fit in that mold ?

[PatriotReign37]

Herm is getting rid of guys that are holding him back from winning a championship.

[#27TheDominator]

Think back. The Jets have done it on numerous occasions. Parcells and Belichick specifically dumped our best pass rusher, Hugh Douglas because he didn't fit their scheme. He was too small for a 3-4 DE and not agile enough for OLB. They then spent the rest of their time complaining about the lack of pass rush and drafting stiffs like Dorian Boose to replace him. I guess they thought guys like LT grew on trees. I think they got a fourth for Douglas who made the pro bowl numerous times with Philly.

Herm dumped our entire secondary which consisted of good cover corners in a purge during the expansion draft and let the Texans take Ryan Young a promising, cheap T for the privilege of gutting us. He also looked at our big, slow, aging thumper LB corp and decided that they should play the speed oriented cover 2 and drop back in coverage. Truth is, they might have done better to spend less time with Mo and Marvin than they did because they sure didn't succeed under that scheme. Round pegs, square holes.

I'm pretty sure that douchebag Walton did it too. There was a pretty big purge around the time they got rid of my boy Russell, but I'm not sure who else they dumped or how old they were. I know Klecko was part of that and he was not happy about it.

[shawn306]

Think back. The Jets have done it on numerous occasions. Parcells and Belichick specifically dumped our best pass rusher, Hugh Douglas because he didn't fit their scheme. He was too small for a 3-4 DE and not agile enough for OLB. They then spent the rest of their time complaining about the lack of pass rush and drafting stiffs like Dorian Boose to replace him. I guess they thought guys like LT grew on trees. I think they got a fourth for Douglas who made the pro bowl numerous times with Philly.

Herm dumped our entire secondary which consisted of good cover corners in a purge during the expansion draft and let the Texans take Ryan Young a promising, cheap T for the privilege of gutting us. He also looked at our big, slow, aging thumper LB corp and decided that they should play the speed oriented cover 2 and drop back in coverage. Truth is, they might have done better to spend less time with Mo and Marvin than they did because they sure didn't succeed under that scheme. Round pegs, square holes.

I'm pretty sure that douchebag Walton did it too. There was a pretty big purge around the time they got rid of my boy Russell, but I'm not sure who else they dumped or how old they were. I know Klecko was part of that and he was not happy about it.

Great Point on Douglass. I totally forgot about him.

The thing is though, why does it seem other teams don't have this problem ?

Maybe they just cut them. I don't know. I just don't ever remember seeing the Pats having these issues (Pre BB), or the Giants, or the Eagles.

[RSJ]

Great Point on Douglass. I totally forgot about him.

The thing is though, why does it seem other teams don't have this problem ?

Maybe they just cut them. I don't know. I just don't ever remember seeing the Pats having these issues (Pre BB), or the Giants, or the Eagles.

A lot of teams have this problem. The Pats went from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (under pete carroll) back to a 3-4. Other teams do the same thing.

[Sperm Edwards]

A lot of teams have this problem. The Pats went from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (under pete carroll) back to a 4-3. Other teams do the same thing.

Teams also do it when they switch to (or from) a west-coast type offense.

[LionelRichie]

the jets always have this problem because they switch coaches so frequently. even when they keep the same HC for a few years they change coordinators (cottrell, hendu, hackett, dinger). every time a new HC takes over there are bound to be personnel/scheme changes.

teams with the same HC for an extended period obviously don't have these issues (eagles, broncos, pats, colts, seahawks, etc...)

[PatriotReign37]

A lot of teams have this problem. The Pats went from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (under pete carroll) back to a 3-4. Other teams do the same thing.

The Browns had that problem when Crennel arrived there.

[SoFlaJets]

I was thinking about this the other day and why is it it seems that only the Jets have personel issues with schemes ?

Why is it I don't see this happening with other teams. We saw it with Herm with his "Cover Who" and now we are seeing it again with Mangini.

Now I don't exactly remember what kind of defense Kotitte ran but I do remember the Jets going from the 4-3 when the Sack Exchange was around to a 3-4 when Bud Carson came in. Now some guys (Buttle, Bobby Jackson, Schroy) were pretty much done at that point when they were released but the core (Klecko, Lyons, Gastineau, Mehl) made the transition and thrived in it.

Then I look at Parcells who with BB ran a 3-4 and saw guys like Mo, Marvin thrive.

I guess the point I'm making here is why are don't we see other teams looking to move guys because they quote "Don't fit our scheme".

Are there any examples out there of teams looking to trade guys that fit in that mold ?

my contention has been this; If we don't have the right players to fit the scheme we want to play then DON'T USE THE SCHEME. Instead of this having guys switch positions to fit the 3-4 hasn't been working. This is the 3rd year in the 3-4 and there should be NO MORE EXCUSES

[Sperm Edwards]

Fans always say in hindsight they should have just gutted the team and started over instead of wallowing in the mediocrity that they saw the previous few years. This is what is happening now.

Now whether Tannenbaum will actually acquire the players needed, and if so whether Mangini can use them effectively enough, is only something that the future can tell.

The first year was a little encouraging. Last year was the exact opposite.

It's slower because Tannenbaum handed out high-priced contracts to mediocre or merely decent players as though we didn't have to adhere to a cap. Well then the next person is left with living with those mistakes or starting anew. Mangini (and Tannenbaum) chose to start anew.

My issue with it has been that when opportunities have presented themselves to aid in this transition, they passed on it for reasons of fiscal responsibility gone mad or in choosing character players who sadly lack talent.

[Irish Jet]

Great Point on Douglass. I totally forgot about him.

The thing is though, why does it seem other teams don't have this problem ?

Maybe they just cut them. I don't know. I just don't ever remember seeing the Pats having these issues (Pre BB), or the Giants, or the Eagles.

Other teams do have these problems. I guess we just take more attention on them when it's the Jets.

[SoFlaJets]

Fans always say in hindsight they should have just gutted the team and started over instead of wallowing in the mediocrity that they saw the previous few years. This is what is happening now.

Now whether Tannenbaum will actually acquire the players needed, and if so whether Mangini can use them effectively enough, is only something that the future can tell.

The first year was a little encouraging. Last year was the exact opposite.

It's slower because Tannenbaum handed out high-priced contracts to mediocre or merely decent players as though we didn't have to adhere to a cap. Well then the next person is left with living with those mistakes or starting anew. Mangini (and Tannenbaum) chose to start anew.

My issue with it has been that when opportunities have presented themselves to aid in this transition, they passed on it for reasons of fiscal responsibility gone mad or in choosing character players who sadly lack talent.

exactly-good post SE....I'd rather see us THIS YEAR sign players who AREN'T Jets right now. They have this M.O. of rewarding mediocre players with big contracts. In fact I fear that if we give Kerry Rhodes a new contract he's gonna turn into Eric Coleman

[serphnx]

It's because we just really don't have talent. Talented players can play in any scheme, although their strengths won't be maximally utilized, they will still be good. Take Ray Lewis for example. He's not a 3-4 LB, but he can play in that scheme anyway.

I think Harris would be able to play just fine in the 4-3, and so can Revis, because they actually have talent. I know CP never had the talent or ability to play in a decent offense, so that's why I wanted to get rid of him. You don't want a team full of mediocre talent that can perform well when everything goes well and there are no injuries. You want a team full of a core of great talent that can perform anywhere, and then you get role players that fit the system to complement those players. All we have are role players.

[Sperm Edwards]

exactly-good post SE....I'd rather see us THIS YEAR sign players who AREN'T Jets right now. They have this M.O. of rewarding mediocre players with big contracts. In fact I fear that if we give Kerry Rhodes a new contract he's gonna turn into Eric Coleman

I meant contracts Bradway and Tannenbaum handed out in my post.

But no one ever likes witnessing a rebuilding process. Being a snooze-fest on offense only makes it worse.

[shawn306]

Yes but what teams out there have traded or flat out cut guys in the prime or entering the prime years of their careers because they didn't fit a certain scheme ?

Douglass was a great one that Dominator brought up.

Now we are looking to deal Vilma.

The Steelers lose alot of guys but alot of those are through FA.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes but what teams out there have traded or flat out cut guys in the prime or entering the prime years of their careers because they didn't fit a certain scheme ?

Douglass was a great one that Dominator brought up.

Now we are looking to deal Vilma.

The Steelers lose alot of guys but alot of those are through FA.

I understand your point. But I never cared for those two anyway.

[serphnx]

I meant contracts Bradway and Tannenbaum handed out in my post.

But no one ever likes witnessing a rebuilding process. Being a snooze-fest on offense only makes it worse.

That's because our rebuilding plans don't make any sense. Clemens sat for over a year and a half, Harris sat for about a month or two, Revis only started because everyone else was injured. Leon Washington barely plays and is instead behind a 30 year old RB we traded a 2nd round pick for on the depth chart.

I've always said I'd have no problems if we went 4-12 with a young team, it's just we went 1-7 with an old one before then.

[Iceman88]

Yes but what teams out there have traded or flat out cut guys in the prime or entering the prime years of their careers because they didn't fit a certain scheme ?

Douglass was a great one that Dominator brought up.

Now we are looking to deal Vilma.

The Steelers lose alot of guys but alot of those are through FA.

Vilma is nowhere near as good as Jets fans make him out to be. Even in the 4-3 he won't be a superstar or perrenial probowler.

[shawn306]

That's because our rebuilding plans don't make any sense. Clemens sat for over a year and a half, Harris sat for about a month or two, Revis only started because everyone else was injured. Leon Washington barely plays and is instead behind a 30 year old RB we traded a 2nd round pick for on the depth chart.

I've always said I'd have no problems if we went 4-12 with a young team, it's just we went 1-7 with an old one before then.

And it seems like we just went throught this two years ago.

John Abraham: FA

Ty Law: FA

Chrebet: Retired

Martin: Retired

Fabini: FA

Mawae: FA

Now here we are going through it with it looking like Vilma, Robertson, maybe Coles, maybe Pennington heading out the door.

There isn't much left after that.

[Irish Jet]

Vilma is nowhere near as good as Jets fans make him out to be. Even in the 4-3 he won't be a superstar or perrenial probowler.

I agree that he's not that good however he probably will be a perrrenial probowler due to the # of downfield tackles he makes.

[tparich]

I think it would be hard to really judge where Vima stands right now. A lot of people say he wasn't that good but just getting a lot of tackles but even then that was only his second year. What was he like 22 then? Whos to say that if he stayed in a 4-3 that he wouldn't of improved and been one of the best linebackers right now that he is only just entering his prime years?