The Commish's Press Conference

[chris66]

If teams changed signals game to game and therefore taping signals had no benefit to a team for FUTURE games then why would BB waste Ernie Adams' time doing this if there was no benefit? Answer: Either you are incorrect and that the VIDEOTAPING of signals allowed a more comprehensive review particularly in the hands of GEEK Adams or they used them for assessment during the games. ( Remember the Pats had more than one video guy at the games and each one could have had different tasks and duties). The Patriots did get valuable info out of this - why else would BB have done this for EIGHT years!!

If you dont believe me that coaches change their signal when they play a division opponent for the second time. why dont you email the jets organization and ask them.

also goodell was told by walsh that he kept the tapes till after the game. so anything other than that is speculation on your part with no factual basis.

[Cyberjet]

If you dont believe me that coaches change their signal when they play a division opponent for the second time. why dont you email the jets organization and ask them.

also goodell was told by walsh that he kept the tapes till after the game. so anything other than that is speculation on your part with no factual basis.

I didn't say i didn't believe you that they change their signals. Read my post closely.

Your assumption, as the commissioner's, is that teams change their signals game to game. I agree with that premise. You as well as the commissioner conclude that because teams change their signals game to game videotaping the signals gives absolutely no competitive advantage. (The implication being the Pats broke the rules, but had no significance) Case closed - spygate is over.

Hold on - wait a minute - BB is a football genius - everybody agrees. He is known as the most intense detailed oriented coach around. A brilliant man. This genius, however, unlike you and the commissioner has not figured out that taping opposing coaches signals has no benefit. Everytime BB and Ernie review the tapes those coaches keep changing the signals - and they have been doing it for eight years and still haven't figured out that they don't get any benefit from this. Amazing. Just maybe big Ernie with his IQ over 200 brain and his unrelenting tape review ( at his leisure) discovered patterns of signals (teams will only come up with finite permeatations of signal changes) that can only be revealed with repetitive review of video by this GEEK.

Or maybe they did use the film before halftime to steal signals and were able to predict plays alittle better in the second half.

Or maybe BB and Ernie are insane and just review worthless video info every week because they haven't figured out coaches change their signals every week .

[chris66]

I didn't say i didn't believe you that they change their signals. Read my post closely.

Your assumption, as the commissioner's, is that teams change their signals game to game. I agree with that premise. You as well as the commissioner conclude that because teams change their signals game to game videotaping the signals gives absolutely no competitive advantage. (The implication being the Pats broke the rules, but had no significance) Case closed - spygate is over.

Hold on - wait a minute - BB is a football genius - everybody agrees. He is known as the most intense detailed oriented coach around. A brilliant man. This genius, however, unlike you and the commissioner has not figured out that taping opposing coaches signals has no benefit. Everytime BB and Ernie review the tapes those coaches keep changing the signals - and they have been doing it for eight years and still haven't figured out that they don't get any benefit from this. Amazing. Just maybe big Ernie with his IQ over 200 brain and his unrelenting tape review ( at his leisure) discovered patterns of signals (teams will only come up with finite permeatations of signal changes) that can only be revealed with repetitive review of video by this GEEK.

Or maybe they did use the film before halftime to steal signals and were able to predict plays alittle better in the second half.

Or maybe BB and Ernie are insane and just review worthless video info every week because they haven't figured out coaches change their signals every week .

well now your speculating, with no facts to back that speculation up. Walsh told goodell that he had the tapes the entire game and gave them to adams at the end of the game. the was straight from the horses mouth. thats fact whether you choose to accept it or not.

my speculation is they were more interested in the coaches than the signal. I think they were looking for hints and tendencies like poker players do.

[Cyberjet]

well now your speculating, with no facts to back that speculation up. Walsh told goodell that he had the tapes the entire game and gave them to adams at the end of the game. the was straight from the horses mouth. thats fact whether you choose to accept it or not.

my speculation is they were more interested in the coaches than the signal. I think they were looking for hints and tendencies like poker players do.

You know why we are speculating? - because the NFL has not done a thorough enough investigation.( By the way the use of the word maybe implies speculation)

Fact: Walsh is not the only horse. Have we heard any other facts from the other horses - NO. The NFL has chosen not to press the matter any further.

Fact: BB lied to the commissioner that he misinterpreted the rules. Walsh (your horse) said the Pats were aware that they shouldn't get caught back in 2001.

Fact: Walsh handed the tapes over to Ernie Adams after the game.

Fact: The Patriots have been doing this since 2000.

Fact: Ernie Adams has a phenomenal photographic memory and analytical mind.

Fact: BB is a narcissistic boob ( you can look up narcissism - it has BBs picture next to it) who is intelligent, arrogant, callous, calculating, intense and does not waste his time on matters that have no meaning.

Conclusion: Videotaping by the Pats served no purpose

or

Conclusion: Ernie figured something out and it did benefit the Pats which is why they have done it for eight years.

I'll let you answer that one.

You know what speculation is Chris - when you have evidence that a team had their brightest mind analyze film over the last eight years and someone comes to the conclusion that their actions had no competitive advantage because coaches change their signals week to week. Where is the evidence in that statement??

On the otherhand, a more logical conclusion is that BECAUSE teams change their signals every week the only way to analyze the signals effectively was by videotaping them. Then the Pats boy genius can sit in his dark dungeon and review them to his heart's content.

[chris66]

You know why we are speculating? - because the NFL has not done a thorough enough investigation.( By the way the use of the word maybe implies speculation)

Fact: Walsh is not the only horse. Have we heard any other facts from the other horses - NO. The NFL has chosen not to press the matter any further.

Fact: BB lied to the commissioner that he misinterpreted the rules. Walsh (your horse) said the Pats were aware that they shouldn't get caught back in 2001.

Fact: Walsh handed the tapes over to Ernie Adams after the game.

Fact: The Patriots have been doing this since 2000.

Fact: Ernie Adams has a phenomenal photographic memory and analytical mind.

Fact: BB is a narcissistic boob ( you can look up narcissism - it has BBs picture next to it) who is intelligent, arrogant, callous, calculating, intense and does not waste his time on matters that have no meaning.

Conclusion: Videotaping by the Pats served no purpose

or

Conclusion: Ernie figured something out and it did benefit the Pats which is why they have done it for eight years.

I'll let you answer that one.

You know what speculation is Chris - when you have evidence that a team had their brightest mind analyze film over the last eight years and someone comes to the conclusion that their actions had no competitive advantage because coaches change their signals week to week. Where is the evidence in that statement??

On the otherhand, a more logical conclusion is that BECAUSE teams change their signals every week the only way to analyze the signals effectively was by videotaping them. Then the Pats boy genius can sit in his dark dungeon and review them to his heart's content.

I'm not arguing any of the facts you laid out. The bottom line is its done and there will be no further punishment. And as far as the speculations go everybody is entitled to their opinion, and on some point taping probably did serve some purpose but to what the extent of it who knows. All I know is the Goodell absolved he pats from gaining an in game competitive advantage and I'm satisfied with that

[Cyberjet]

. All I know is the Goodell absolved he pats from gaining an in game competitive advantage and I'm satisfied with that

Surely you mean he SPECULATED that there was no competitive advantage.

To be quite honest it is statements like that which will get the commissioner in trouble - it shows his bias in minimizing the ramifications of an illegal action by sheer speculation - without fact or foundation. Anyway it's way past my bedtime.

[PatriotReign37]

LOL don't write a check you can't cash....weren't you guys on a 'mission' last year? How that turn out?

2 minutes away from paydirt.

The Pats will focus on winning the war and not every battle. In fact, I hope they lose the very first game to Herm. There is no shame losing to a good HC.

[fastmover]

maybe because walsh told goodell that he had the tapes the entire game and he gave them to adams afterwards, hence that they were not used during the game. BB already admitted that he used the tapes for upcoming games, Hence all this info was consistent with what they already knew.

Goodell also didnt think future use was that big of an issue because as he said teams go to great lengths to keep their signals secret and are usually changed from game to game

Then why did goodell have the 1st round of tapes destroyed! If future use was not an issue, then the tapes are usless and did not warrant being destroyed. Goodell is hiding something and protecting the Pat's and nfl. It is flat out B.S. There is no transparency with the management of the nfl, and that should create suspiscion in affairs like this. I dont think this is over. Thanks Pat's for f'ing up the NFL.

Semper fi

[RSJ]

Then why did goodell have the 1st round of tapes destroyed! If future use was not an issue, then the tapes are usless and did not warrant being destroyed. Goodell is hiding something and protecting the Pat's and nfl. It is flat out B.S. There is no transparency with the management of the nfl, and that should create suspiscion in affairs like this. I dont think this is over. Thanks Pat's for f'ing up the NFL.

Semper fi

Also, why did Goodell hand out the biggest cash fin in league history if this was much to do about nothing? Depsite this very harsh CASH fine, I personally think anything short of a suspension is a slap in the players unions face after all of the suspensions the league has handed out to players who were not convicted of any crimes.

I don't think this is over either. Goodell's answers don't line up at all.

[BaumerJet]

Also, why did Goodell hand out the biggest cash fin in league history if this was much to do about nothing? Depsite this very harsh CASH fine, I personally think anything short of a suspension is a slap in the players unions face after all of the suspensions the league has handed out to players who were not convicted of any crimes.

I don't think this is over either. Goodell's answers don't line up at all.

'It's only just begun" - Especially since Goodell has created a "Guilty by suspicion" senario because he had the previous tapes destroyed.

From today's ESPN:

Wednesday, May 14, 2008

Specter criticizes NFL, wants independent Spygate investigation

Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Arlen Specter wants an independent investigation of the New England Patriots' taping of opposing coaches' signals similar to the Mitchell report on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.

Specter again criticized the NFL's handling of the investigation during a news conference Wednesday.

Specter is the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee. He met with former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh a day earlier in Washington.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell indicated he considered the investigation over with after meeting with Walsh on Tuesday.

"Everybody pooh-poohs it," Specter said. "It's ridiculous to make that kind of contention."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, cited the fact a Patriots attorney sat in on Walsh's meeting with Goodell as proof the investigation has not been impartial.

He repeated his disapproval of Goodell's decision to destroy the notes and tapes confiscated during the initial investigation last fall.

"That sequence is incomprehensible," Specter said. "It's an insult to the intelligence of the people who follow it."

If the NFL condones cheating, Specter said, it encourages others to cheat.

"They owe the public a lot more candor and a lot more credibility," he said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3395881

And then there's this...

NFL To Talk With Daboll Again

The NFL will again interview former Patriots assistant and current Jets quarterbacks coach Brian Daboll.

During Tuesday's meeting with Matt Walsh, NFL security director Milt Ahlerich asked Walsh what had happened during the walk-through for Super Bowl XXXVI. According to NFL attorney Gregg Levy, Walsh told Goodell that Daboll, who was then the Patriots' receivers coach, asked Walsh what he saw at the Rams' walk-through.

Walsh was in the stadium in his Patriots gear setting up equipment during the walk-through, Goodell said. NFL officials noted that it's common for personnel not connected to the team to be present on that day.

Daboll was interviewed by the commissioner several months ago and did not reveal that conversation with Walsh.

The date and time of the new meeting between Daboll and the commissioner is unclear. "I have cooperated with the league's investigation and was completely truthful and forthcoming," Daboll said. "The league has requested to speak to me again. In light of this request, I will not comment further other than to say that I have been and will continue to be completely truthful, cooperative, and forthcoming with the league."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3395829

We are far from out of the woods with this one...

[Alk]

'It's only just begun" - Especially since Goodell has created a "Guilty by suspicion" senario because he had the previous tapes destroyed.

From today's ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3395881

And then there's this...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3395829

We are far from out of the woods with this one...

WTF kind of country do we live in where this douchebag seems to think that a sport is more important than all of the other messes going on here?

[Gainzo]

'It's only just begun" - Especially since Goodell has created a "Guilty by suspicion" senario because he had the previous tapes destroyed.

From today's ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3395881

And then there's this...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3395829

We are far from out of the woods with this one...

Did you watch Specters press conference? It was one of the weirdest things I have ever seen.

Specter wondered why Goodell didn't question Walsh about the 2003, 2004 & 2005 seasons. Maybe thats because Walsh was fired in 2002.

Specter also quoted Mark Schlereth's comments that the Pats used the tapes during the game as "proof." He failed to mention that Matt Walsh is on the record as saying that he was in possession of the tapes until after the game.

Looks to me like Specter only chooses to believe Walsh when it fits his agenda.

I would happily embrace an independent investigation as long as Specter is not involved.

The Pats taped signals. We all know that.

[Maxman]

Did you watch Specters press conference? It was one of the weirdest things I have ever seen.

Specter wondered why Goodell didn't question Walsh about the 2003, 2004 & 2005 seasons. Maybe thats because Walsh was fired in 2002.

Specter also quoted Mark Schlereth's comments that the Pats used the tapes during the game as "proof." He failed to mention that Matt Walsh is on the record as saying that he was in possession of the tapes until after the game.

Looks to me like Specter only chooses to believe Walsh when it fits his agenda.

I would happily embrace an independent investigation as long as Specter is not involved.

The Pats taped signals. We all know that.

Jay Cross has some free time these days. Let's have him lead the investigation.

[Alk]

"Sen. Arlen Specter said former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh indicated he saw the Jets taping signals at one point during a Jets-Patriots game, but Walsh did not say anything about it at the time. Specter also thinks the NFL hasn't done enough to investigate the Patriots' taping practices in 2003, 2004 and 2005, even though Walsh told him he observed the Patriots taping signals from the stands after Walsh had left the organization as an employee."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-7-196/Specter--Walsh-indicated-Jets-taped-as-well.html

What say ye' Jets fans? Time to wrap up this little investigation?

[RSJ]

'It's only just begun" - Especially since Goodell has created a "Guilty by suspicion" senario because he had the previous tapes destroyed.

From today's ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3395881

And then there's this...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3395829

We are far from out of the woods with this one...

I agree, I couldn't believe that Goodell said the things he did at that press conference yesterday. He basically incrimidated himself.

[Gainzo]

"Sen. Arlen Specter said former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh indicated he saw the Jets taping signals at one point during a Jets-Patriots game, but Walsh did not say anything about it at the time. Specter also thinks the NFL hasn't done enough to investigate the Patriots' taping practices in 2003, 2004 and 2005, even though Walsh told him he observed the Patriots taping signals from the stands after Walsh had left the organization as an employee."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-7-196/Specter--Walsh-indicated-Jets-taped-as-well.html

What say ye' Jets fans? Time to wrap up this little investigation?

BB has admitted that he has been taping signals since he became the HC. Why are the 2003-2005 seasons so important?............ I know why. That's when Specters beloved Eagles lost the Super Bowl to the Pats. I'm sure Donovan "dry heave" McNabb had nothing to do with the SB loss.

Does Specter want to see more grainy videotape from those seasons? I swear that Specter has lost the plot.

[Ten]

"Sen. Arlen Specter said former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh indicated he saw the Jets taping signals at one point during a Jets-Patriots game, but Walsh did not say anything about it at the time. Specter also thinks the NFL hasn't done enough to investigate the Patriots' taping practices in 2003, 2004 and 2005, even though Walsh told him he observed the Patriots taping signals from the stands after Walsh had left the organization as an employee."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-7-196/Specter--Walsh-indicated-Jets-taped-as-well.html

What say ye' Jets fans? Time to wrap up this little investigation?

I'd be half surprised half not if we did.

Herm doesn't strike me as a guy who is smart or edgy enough to figure opposing signals but he obviously thinks that it's a big deal if he was willing to wave at the camera.Wouldn't mind seeing this fully investigated.

[rillo]

Wasn't it known the Jets did tape in Foxboro? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gainzo]

Wasn't it known the Jets did tape in Foxboro? Correct me if I'm wrong.

It doesn't matter what other teams may or may not have done.

Can any rational person not admit that this is a witch hunt at this point? BB wasn't exactly a media or fan favourite before spygate.

BB videotaped the opposing teams sidelines. Thats a fact.

[bobby2times]

"Sen. Arlen Specter said former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh indicated he saw the Jets taping signals at one point during a Jets-Patriots game, but Walsh did not say anything about it at the time. Specter also thinks the NFL hasn't done enough to investigate the Patriots' taping practices in 2003, 2004 and 2005, even though Walsh told him he observed the Patriots taping signals from the stands after Walsh had left the organization as an employee."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-7-196/Specter--Walsh-indicated-Jets-taped-as-well.html

What say ye' Jets fans? Time to wrap up this little investigation?

That would be during the Herm Edwards era no? I'm pretty sure the consensus would be all for suspending Herm Edwards among Jet fans.

[chris66]

I'm all in favor of a third party investigation. Its not like its going to cause the pats anymore fines or loss of draft picks. It will just expose the dirty laundry of the other teams. Then we get t really see which teams do or dont.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

That would be during the Herm Edwards era no? I'm pretty sure the consensus would be all for suspending Herm Edwards among Jet fans.

not the president for punishment. Jets lose a 1st round draft pick in 2009 if they make the playoffs, 2 & 3 rd if they don't. Jets pay half million, herm pay quarter million.

[Alk]

not the president for punishment. Jets lose a 1st round draft pick in 2009 if they make the playoffs, 2 & 3 rd if they don't. Jets pay half million, herm pay quarter million.

Lets be fair here. If the Jets DON'T make the playoffs they lose a first. If they DO make the playoffs they lose a 2nd. and 3rd.

[raffyD]

Pats cheated and we will never know the whole truth. End of story.

Thanks for nothing Goodell.

[KSJets]

not the president for punishment. Jets lose a 1st round draft pick in 2009 if they make the playoffs, 2 & 3 rd if they don't. Jets pay half million, herm pay quarter million.

I love how Matt Walsh was considered a lieing scumbag by almost all of the Pats' fans here who couldn't be trusted, but then he says he saw a Jets' employee videotaping and now all of a sudden he's trustworthy. Even if this was the case, it would have to had happened when Walsh was with the Pats which was before 2002. Unless they somehow produce a tape of this, there is no evidence to justify any punishment, except the word of someone who Pats' fans claim can't be trusted anyway.

The Pats were punished because there were a half dozen tapes, not to mention the one confiscated at the game, plus the coach admitting he's been doing it since 2000. There is a huge difference.

But if any credible evidence does turn up, by all means, let them punish the team and people involved.

[Cyberjet]

It doesn't matter what other teams may or may not have done.

Can any rational person not admit that this is a witch hunt at this point? BB wasn't exactly a media or fan favourite before spygate.

BB videotaped the opposing teams sidelines. Thats a fact.

A witch hunt - no. There are two main players to blame for this fiasco - BB and Goodell. BB for his arrogance and simple unethical practices and Goodell for not fully investigating the ramifications of BB cheating.

The real issue is not that the Patriots taped the opposing sidelines (A far too general term) and therefore need to be punished, rather it is what they taped and more importantly what they did with the information garnered from the video.

This is a sports scandal - scandals should be fully investigated, not half-assed as the NFL has done and expect a trained prosecutor like Specter to say 'bloody good job'. How can you sit there knowing that this guy Walsh, who is one of many people assigned to the video duties for the Pats, passed this info onto Ernie Adams and ,yet, have the commissioner stand up there with a straight face and say he doesn't know what the Patriots did with the tapes, but I don't think it helped them because teams change their signals every week. This is just plain stupid and ignorant. How about finding out what they did do with the info Goodell? Maybe start by grilling Ernie Adams?? This won't go away nor should it.

[Gainzo]

A witch hunt - no. There are two main players to blame for this fiasco - BB and Goodell. BB for his arrogance and simple unethical practices and Goodell for not fully investigating the ramifications of BB cheating.

The real issue is not that the Patriots taped the opposing sidelines (A far too general term) and therefore need to be punished, rather it is what they taped and more importantly what they did with the information garnered from the video.

This is a sports scandal - scandals should be fully investigated, not half-assed as the NFL has done and expect a trained prosecutor like Specter to say 'bloody good job'. How can you sit there knowing that this guy Walsh, who is one of many people assigned to the video duties for the Pats, passed this info onto Ernie Adams and ,yet, have the commissioner stand up there with a straight face and say he doesn't know what the Patriots did with the tapes, but I don't think it helped them because teams change their signals every week. This is just plain stupid and ignorant. How about finding out what they did do with the info Goodell? Maybe start by grilling Ernie Adams?? This won't go away nor should it.

The Pats taped signals. What more do you want?

[Cyberjet]

The Pats taped signals. What more do you want?

Do you know how to read?

[Gainzo]

Do you know how to read?

I can read. Can you?

[Cyberjet]

I can read. Can you?

I guess I should take the 'I'm the stupid bloke' seriously - I thought you were kidding.

[Gainzo]

I guess I should take the 'I'm the stupid bloke' seriously - I thought you were kidding.

You think that the Pats success is tainted. I dont. Can we agree to disagree?

[Cyberjet]

You think that the Pats success is tainted. I dont. Can we agree to disagree?

No problem, but it would be nice if we knew all the facts.

[jetophile]

Who can honestly say they're the least bit surprised by one of the worst comb overs ever?

Yep, NFL findings; but comb overs never fooled anybody, now did they.