New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[CTM]

Crusher and JiF are not in the game, but are apparently having great bonding time

[Sharrow]

I won't be here until later tonight, at least until 6:30 if not later. I'm still not sold on voting for SMC or AVM. Hopefully some progress will have been made by the time I get back.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Interesting. Care to elaborate on the underlined part?

Because the reason I'm voting for you right now is that your contributions to the game thus far have been: (1) Jokes; (2) long disappearances followed by "I'm catching up and will say something once I do" - but never following through; and (3) votes without much in the way of explanation.

The above is a perfect example of this. You're voting for me, you say my play has been "scummier" - but convieniently fail to identify any particular aspects of my play that you find scummy.

All of which, IMO, adds up to scum trying to give the appearance of participation without actually saying anything that could trip alarms down the road.

Sure thing Doggin. I'll go back and find a few of your more scumalicious posts (are you The MadBacker?), and elaborate on why I feel that way.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Train 1: Vicious

1: Doggin - Tues, 11:22am

2: CTM - Wed: 11:08am

3: Slats - Wed: 11:43am

4: SMC - Wed: 11:56am

5: Vicious Wed: 11:57 - then unvotes Wed. 12:18pm before

5: Norway 12:28pm - Slats 1:20 & Norway 3:37 unvote before:

4: EY 4:21pm - then unvotes 5:36pm before

4: Jets Babe 9:10- then unvotes 10:52 before

4: EY 11:08

Doggin, Chan unvote, train dies, Jets Babe dies.

Train 2: Jets Babe

1: AVM - Wed, 3:51pm

2: DanX Wed: 4:14

3: Norway (on both trains) Wed: 4:39

4: Slats 5:32

5: Vicious 8:39

6: Pac

7: JVoR

8: Woody - then Norway unvotes before:

8: Doggin

9: CTM

Here's the thing that sticks out to me - Vicious' train was hovering around 4-5 votes, he's acting scummy and the clubhouse leader to be lynched. Slats jumps on early, then jumps off "because he doesn't want vicious lynched while Slats is out", putting vicious back down to 4 votes. Nothing else happens for a few hours, and Norway jumps off the bandwagon and goes for Sharrow. Just after he does that, a rival train on JB gets started - and Slats and Norway soon jump on. The train on vicious becomes a memory, and JB goes down.

It looks, to me, like there's a possibility that Slats, Norway and Vicious - or at least 2 of them (vicious and either slats/norway) are scum teammates; that Slats/Norway put their initial vote on vicious as a distancing vote when his lynching had momentum, and then jumped off when it became apparent that they could get a townie lynched instead.

All of this, of course, relies on vicious being guilty. And since he was acting scummy anyway, I'm comfortable enough to vote:Vicious. Vic, if you're a townie, I'm sorry - but your death could provide us with some key info, and thats what day 1/2 lynches are all about. You've got to go.

I'll check in again Monday night.

This post seems really filthy to me. In hindsight, his plan to tag me, Slats, and Vic as a scum team looks pretty bad. With Vic being the cop and vouching for Slats, I like the company I'm in.

I see nothing wrong with jumping of trains, especially for my reasons. Vic's tantrum was noteworthy, but I felt that pressuring him fully was fine, and then jumped off as I didn't want a lynch.

The JB train is even worse. He helped finish off an innocent, but says I'm scummy for jumping off her? He says I voted for Vic to distance but then switched to JB to get a townie lynched instead. But I jumped off her late to help buy her time to plead her case. That's scummy how?

[Dan.]

The short answer though is I don't trust Doggin one iota. He's who I've been referencing as far as the David Koresh type poster who will try and build a cult following only to lead them to their demise.

I have no doubt he's capable of systematically destroying the town from his blackberry.

I know this was only your short answer and you said you'd come back with more around lunchtime, but do you see Doggin's cult-building abilities as more dangerous than CTM or EY? And are you linking him with SMC (you said the both of them voting for Vicious was what kept you from voting Vicious)?

[Dan.]

tomato, tomahto.

Hey, mods of the world, at some point I'd like to be on a mafia team with CTM so we can have this strategic battle royale on PM, rather than on-thread

I'm having trouble with this debate because I think you're both making valid points ... hell, for all I know, you are on a team with CTM (which seems unfair, haha) and keep publicly disagreeing on strategies to throw us off. Maybe hearing from other people who have been scum in the past would be helpful (EY, Sharrow, etc.) ...

[CTM]

I'm having trouble with this debate because I think you're both making valid points ... hell, for all I know, you are on a team with CTM (which seems unfair, haha) and keep publicly disagreeing on strategies to throw us off. Maybe hearing from other people who have been scum in the past would be helpful (EY, Sharrow, etc.) ...

Unfair to us

None of us really ever make it to end game, as either innocent or guilty. If guilty, we get investigated in short order and caught, and if not we get lynched "because we've been alive too long". If innocent, we get nightkilled as dangerous or lynched "because we've been alive too long". Either way, the longer we are around the more people think we are scum, and I'm not sure why that is..

That's why I'm excited about you, slats, jvor and AVM, all of whom seem likely to join the "axis of evil" (who I would actually include BG in, but somehow people just let him coast by every game)

[slats]

Working midnights, drinking coffee....

I'm going to unvolte: SMC

I've heard enough for now. I also agree the case on him is thin. I also agree that it's most likely that at least one of the big three is guilty. CTM vs. Doggin on "what I'd do if I were mafia," is interesting. I see the logic on both sides. Doggin's initial 25% or 33% chance thing was a bit of a reach, now that I think about it, while "they still have to go after the doc," is more compelling. But that late addition could just be scum trying to improve his earlier weak answer.

EY has changed his style of play drastically from last game, or what I recall reading in other games. He's usually way out in front, and is taking a backseat role this time around. While that and a couple other things (like the TRUST ME post) have me somewhat suspicious of him, I don't have any great desire to spread the voting out any further at this juncture, either.

I think I'm softening on CTM, which is a shame, because I like bantering with him. But I suppose that fun'll continue if I get to live another night.

More coffee...

[AVM]

Unfair to us

None of us really ever make it to end game, as either innocent or guilty. If guilty, we get investigated in short order and caught, and if not we get lynched "because we've been alive too long". If innocent, we get nightkilled as dangerous or lynched "because we've been alive too long". Either way, the longer we are around the more people think we are scum, and I'm not sure why that is..

That's why I'm excited about you, slats, jvor and AVM, all of whom seem likely to join the "axis of evil" (who I would actually include BG in, but somehow people just let him coast by every game)

As long as I'm not Pakistan. They're like the retarded little brother of the axis of evil.

And as for BG...townies, scum, and vig alike ALL wanted him dead last game. I think it's safe to say he's a member of the axis of evil

[Doggin94it]

I know this was only your short answer and you said you'd come back with more around lunchtime, but do you see Doggin's cult-building abilities as more dangerous than CTM or EY? And are you linking him with SMC (you said the both of them voting for Vicious was what kept you from voting Vicious)?

Cult building? How, when everyone looks at everything I post going "OMG! If he's mafia, he can lead us off a cliff!"

Honestly, with me, Yellin, CTM - pretty much everything we say has to be independently absurdly compelling because of the superstitious fear other players have of us.

Which I kind of like - it helps keep me on my game - but the idea that anyone would blindly trust me is just silly.

[Doggin94it]

Unfair to us

None of us really ever make it to end game, as either innocent or guilty. If guilty, we get investigated in short order and caught, and if not we get lynched "because we've been alive too long". If innocent, we get nightkilled as dangerous or lynched "because we've been alive too long". Either way, the longer we are around the more people think we are scum, and I'm not sure why that is..

That's why I'm excited about you, slats, jvor and AVM, all of whom seem likely to join the "axis of evil" (who I would actually include BG in, but somehow people just let him coast by every game)

[Pac]

You look scummy to me? Can you explain how you feel about Doggin and EY? Does really no one besides AVM & Vicious look scummy to you?

Thank you?

Doggin is a master manipulator. Quite honestly I don't know that I'd ever trust him unless he was cop cleared-- and even then I'd wonder if it was because the cop was insane.

As far as examples in this game, I noticed he was applying the same pressure to Vic as I was (without the scruitny) and then immediately had all the answers as far as the town should proceed. That looked a little too... easy.

I also don't spend much time analyzing his and CTM's nerd wars. What's aggrivating about that is they know they are playing with newer players (myself included) yet they spend 2 pages going on ad naseum about scenarios we wouldn't have even thought of. I realize they get their rocks off but why the blather? meant to confuse? meant to promote trust because we are impressed with their knowledge of the game? Maybe not but it's certainly possible.

I'm not sure about EY yet but he's another one I don't trust (seeing a trend here? I don't trust anyone). The Robocop thing was a little over the top. I get the possibility that SMC could have had snake oil for sale but I didn't get the feeling he was trying to necessarily sell us on the idea. EY has also taken a couple jabs at me with "moron" and "fairy godmother" but they seem like feeble attempts to get me to go all Vic on him. Not going there yet.

Just about everyone says something "scummy" whether they realize it or not... At this point though, with the limited info we have, I find AVM the scummiest. I offer no guarantees about his guilt but I belive him to be either Mafia or the SK. That being said it wouldn't take too much convincing for me to switch to doggin.

[slats]

That's why I'm excited about you, slats, jvor and AVM, all of whom seem likely to join the "axis of evil" (who I would actually include BG in, but somehow people just let him coast by every game)

Eh... I'll probably crack like Vic with the finder role first time I get to be scum.

If Dan is scum this time around, I'll vote for him next game in the signup thread.

[Pac]

That's why I'm excited about you, slats, jvor and AVM, all of whom seem likely to join the "axis of evil"

Careful Dan... he'll use his right hand to shake and his left to stab you in the back.

[AVM]

Careful Dan... he'll use his right hand to shake and his left to stab you in the back.

Hmm...are you implying CTM is the legendary "bowling ball with butcher knives?"

[CTM]

Doggin is a master manipulator. Quite honestly I don't know that I'd ever trust him unless he was cop cleared-- and even then I'd wonder if it was because the cop was insane.

As far as examples in this game, I noticed he was applying the same pressure to Vic as I was (without the scruitny) and then immediately had all the answers as far as the town should proceed. That looked a little too... easy.

I also don't spend much time analyzing his and CTM's nerd wars. What's aggrivating about that is they know they are playing with newer players (myself included) yet they spend 2 pages going on ad naseum about scenarios we wouldn't have even thought of. I realize they get their rocks off but why the blather? meant to confuse? meant to promote trust because we are impressed with their knowledge of the game? Maybe not but it's certainly possible.

I'm not sure about EY yet but he's another one I don't trust (seeing a trend here? I don't trust anyone). The Robocop thing was a little over the top. I get the possibility that SMC could have had snake oil for sale but I didn't get the feeling he was trying to necessarily sell us on the idea. EY has also taken a couple jabs at me with "moron" and "fairy godmother" but they seem like feeble attempts to get me to go all Vic on him. Not going there yet.

Just about everyone says something "scummy" whether they realize it or not... At this point though, with the limited info we have, I find AVM the scummiest. I offer no guarantees about his guilt but I belive him to be either Mafia or the SK. That being said it wouldn't take too much convincing for me to switch to doggin.

You tool!

A) Don't pretend you aren't experienced or good at this game. You're just as analytical as those you are mocking now..

Maybe we are just arguing cause we legitimately disagree? Again, I've seen you dig your heels in on things, and you've been known to have your own battle of wills from time to time..

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

This was, once again, roughly an hour ago.

unvote: SMC

vote: Norway

The disappearing act is wearing on me, sorry

I say I'll vote shortly, and when I don't respond for an hour, that's enough for you to vote for me? Again, I don't mind the vote, other than your case is nearly non-existent.

I posted on Sat AM, saying I'd be away the rest of the weekend. On Monday I explained that I was slammed with work, and would try to catch up and contribute. Yesterday, I was off-site without internet access and then had to catch up on voice-mails and mails. Add in that there has been a lot of progress and hundreds of posts to analyze.

So again, how does my "disappearance" seem any shadier than yours, JT's Woody's, etc? If I was facing alot of heat, I might see it. But I wasn't.

Also, you pushing Vic to reveal so early seems dirty. He only had two votes. Had a few more votes been posted, might have been good data later, if Vic was kiled and was innocent/finder. You trying to keep some mafia out of a train that you know will end in an innocents' lynching?

[CTM]

Careful Dan... he'll use his right hand to shake and his left to stab you in the back.

Not this time I won't...

Did you read the last game? These guys are good.. Slats basically put the whole thing together from day 4 or so on and Dan was on mark so much I thought he had access to my PM's..

AVM was a roleblocker who blocked a mob member every night and then put helped take down EY when he put together the pieces on a somewhat complicated string of events..

[CTM]

Cult building? How, when everyone looks at everything I post going "OMG! If he's mafia, he can lead us off a cliff!"

Honestly, with me, Yellin, CTM - pretty much everything we say has to be independently absurdly compelling because of the superstitious fear other players have of us.

Which I kind of like - it helps keep me on my game - but the idea that anyone would blindly trust me is just silly.

That's what's so amusing about this, I can't get any traction on a single one of my suspicions, but somehow I'm being characterized as a dangerous manipulator, and it's being done by some of the guys who did get traction on Jets Babe..

This is why I hate ever being mafia, nobody ever forgets the 1 time you do manipulate the town

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Hmm...are you implying CTM is the legendary "bowling ball with butcher knives?"

Ha, you beat me to D-rob.

[Pac]

Not this time I won't...

Did you read the last game? These guys are good.. Slats basically put the whole thing together from day 4 or so on and Dan was on mark so much I thought he had access to my PM's..

AVM was a roleblocker who blocked a mob member every night and then put helped take down EY when he put together the pieces on a somewhat complicated string of events..

There's something I can agree with you on.

[AVM]

I've got an exam so I'll be out for a bit--bb whenever I can

[Doggin94it]

I say I'll vote shortly, and when I don't respond for an hour, that's enough for you to vote for me? Again, I don't mind the vote, other than your case is nearly non-existent.

I posted on Sat AM, saying I'd be away the rest of the weekend. On Monday I explained that I was slammed with work, and would try to catch up and contribute. Yesterday, I was off-site without internet access and then had to catch up on voice-mails and mails. Add in that there has been a lot of progress and hundreds of posts to analyze.

So again, how does my "disappearance" seem any shadier than yours, JT's Woody's, etc? If I was facing alot of heat, I might see it. But I wasn't.

If it was a one time thing, you'd be right. But it wasn't. There was a little pattern of "OK, just catching up, will post soon" . . . followed by nothing. The same move, I'll point out, that Sharrow used last game. Just enough to take you off the radar screen, not enough to put you back on it by saying anything substantive.

Also, you pushing Vic to reveal so early seems dirty. He only had two votes. Had a few more votes been posted, might have been good data later, if Vic was kiled and was innocent/finder. You trying to keep some mafia out of a train that you know will end in an innocents' lynching?

Yes, it was very dirty.

Lets think about this for a second.

Assume I'm mafia, know that vicious is innocent and has just hinted at having a power role (likely finder).

Do I:

A) Keep quiet about it, hope the doc missed the hint and target him for a NK; or

Call it out on the thread to make sure that he's doctor protected and cannot be night killed.

Which one would you choose, if you were mafia?

[Doggin94it]

That's what's so amusing about this, I can't get any traction on a single one of my suspicions, but somehow I'm being characterized as a dangerous manipulator, and it's being done by some of the guys who did get traction on Jets Babe..

This is why I hate ever being mafia, nobody ever forgets the 1 time you do manipulate the town

BTW, given that JN mafia has reached this stage of its life-cycle, I've asked Max and Thor for permission to create Mafia Alts.

Hope Max agrees

[CTM]

BTW, given that JN mafia has reached this stage of its life-cycle, I've asked Max and Thor for permission to create Mafia Alts.

Hope Max agrees

good thinking..

[Doggin94it]

I'm having trouble with this debate because I think you're both making valid points ... hell, for all I know, you are on a team with CTM (which seems unfair, haha) and keep publicly disagreeing on strategies to throw us off. Maybe hearing from other people who have been scum in the past would be helpful (EY, Sharrow, etc.) ...

That's because we are. Like any other strategy game, there's no "one way" to play something like this.

Except, of course, calling for counterclaim immediately on false reveal. That should happen every time.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

If it was a one time thing, you'd be right. But it wasn't. There was a little pattern of "OK, just catching up, will post soon" . . . followed by nothing. The same move, I'll point out, that Sharrow used last game. Just enough to take you off the radar screen, not enough to put you back on it by saying anything substantive.

Yes, it was very dirty.

Lets think about this for a second.

Assume I'm mafia, know that vicious is innocent and has just hinted at having a power role (likely finder).

Do I:

A) Keep quiet about it, hope the doc missed the hint and target him for a NK; or

Call it out on the thread to make sure that he's doctor protected and cannot be night killed.

Which one would you choose, if you were mafia?

I know, put a mian part of my point was that I really wasn't under substantial pressure when I made those posts, so how was I being evasive? Imean, a couple people said that they wanted to hear more from me, so I just wanted to quickly say that I'd post asap, so it didn't look like I WAS hiding. Then you used my not voting quickly enough as the main reason that you were voting for me. It just dosen't make much sense to me.

[Dan.]

Unfair to us

None of us really ever make it to end game, as either innocent or guilty. If guilty, we get investigated in short order and caught, and if not we get lynched "because we've been alive too long". If innocent, we get nightkilled as dangerous or lynched "because we've been alive too long". Either way, the longer we are around the more people think we are scum, and I'm not sure why that is..

That's why I'm excited about you, slats, jvor and AVM, all of whom seem likely to join the "axis of evil" (who I would actually include BG in, but somehow people just let him coast by every game)

This is true. I think people are afraid to lynch you guys early on because they potentially see you as very intelligent and perceptive teammates, but I would agree with you that as you continue to survive night phases, the fear becomes that you've been messing with us all along.

In fact, I've worried that any one of you could be manipulating my fear of being manipulated, and try to convince me of something or link yourselves to specific people knowing that I won't want to trust you. It's sick, frankly.

[Dan.]

Cult building? How, when everyone looks at everything I post going "OMG! If he's mafia, he can lead us off a cliff!"

Honestly, with me, Yellin, CTM - pretty much everything we say has to be independently absurdly compelling because of the superstitious fear other players have of us.

Which I kind of like - it helps keep me on my game - but the idea that anyone would blindly trust me is just silly.

I wasn't the one accusing you of being a cult leader, that was Pac. I was asking him for further clarification.

[CTM]

This is true. I think people are afraid to lynch you guys early on because they potentially see you as very intelligent and perceptive teammates, but I would agree with you that as you continue to survive night phases, the fear becomes that you've been messing with us all along.

In fact, I've worried that any one of you could be manipulating my fear of being manipulated, and try to convince me of something or link yourselves to specific people knowing that I won't want to trust you. It's sick, frankly.

The Wifom. I got JVOR with it against crusher 2 games ago..

[Pac]

I wasn't the one accusing you of being a cult leader, that was Pac. I was asking him for further clarification.

You need look no futher than the first 40 pages. At times it seems as if people are waiting to see what Doggin says so they know how to proceed. I can cite examples when I get home if you'd like.

[Bleedin Green]

Unfair to us

None of us really ever make it to end game, as either innocent or guilty. If guilty, we get investigated in short order and caught, and if not we get lynched "because we've been alive too long". If innocent, we get nightkilled as dangerous or lynched "because we've been alive too long". Either way, the longer we are around the more people think we are scum, and I'm not sure why that is..

That's why I'm excited about you, slats, jvor and AVM, all of whom seem likely to join the "axis of evil" (who I would actually include BG in, but somehow people just let him coast by every game)

Yeah, maybe until last game where I got double night-killed night 1.

[Doggin94it]

This is true. I think people are afraid to lynch you guys early on because they potentially see you as very intelligent and perceptive teammates, but I would agree with you that as you continue to survive night phases, the fear becomes that you've been messing with us all along.

In fact, I've worried that any one of you could be manipulating my fear of being manipulated, and try to convince me of something or link yourselves to specific people knowing that I won't want to trust you. It's sick, frankly.

Heh - in the game that gave the world the Kivam Gambit, I spent day 1 vigorously targetting my scum partner, begging to be investigated, and tying myself to a number of innocent players in ways subtle and obvious. We succeeded in getting me lynched day 1 and my partner so securely confirmed as an innocent that she was the last man standing when the dust settled.

But the real fun was watching people try to unravel the mess I left them - it took four days of lynching innocents (he said he trusted her; he said he was suspicious of him; he was evasive about you!) before realizing that they needed to entirely ignore everything I'd said. It was a blast watching them pick up the poisoned breadcrumbs.

Damn, I hate being a townie . . .

[WoodyPaige]

BTW, given that JN mafia has reached this stage of its life-cycle, I've asked Max and Thor for permission to create Mafia Alts.

Hope Max agrees

I love that idea. I've got a good one if we are allowed to do it.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

If it was a one time thing, you'd be right. But it wasn't. There was a little pattern of "OK, just catching up, will post soon" . . . followed by nothing. The same move, I'll point out, that Sharrow used last game. Just enough to take you off the radar screen, not enough to put you back on it by saying anything substantive.

Yes, it was very dirty.

Lets think about this for a second.

Assume I'm mafia, know that vicious is innocent and has just hinted at having a power role (likely finder).

Do I:

A) Keep quiet about it, hope the doc missed the hint and target him for a NK; or

Call it out on the thread to make sure that he's doctor protected and cannot be night killed.

Which one would you choose, if you were mafia?

He could be Vig, Sk, or rival scum, how is he automatically innocent? Maybe he's hinted at a power role, but unless the hint was blatant, a townie wants him to keep quiet at that stage. There are plenty of roles, how does it help the town for his role to be specified that early?