New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count:

AVM (3) - Pac2566, WoodyPaige, Jets Things

SMC (2) - EY, Vicious89x

Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof (2) - Doggin94it, Sharrow

Pac2566 (2) - AVM, Dan X

Doggin94it (2) - CTM, Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof

CTM (1) - SMC

With 13 players remaining, it takes 7 votes to cut.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

BTW, given that JN mafia has reached this stage of its life-cycle, I've asked Max and Thor for permission to create Mafia Alts.

Hope Max agrees

What are Alts, Doggin?

[WoodyPaige]

He could be Vig, Sk, or rival scum, how is he automatically innocent? Maybe he's hinted at a power role, but unless the hint was blatant, a townie wants him to keep quiet at that stage. There are plenty of roles, how does it help the town for his role to be specified that early?

He did say about 50 times that he wanted to make sure that he had one final post before he died. It was clear he had a role to reveal and he wanted to wait as long as possible. It was a pretty blatant hint, to me at least and obviously others as well.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

He did say about 50 times that he wanted to make sure that he had one final post before he died. It was clear he had a role to reveal and he wanted to wait as long as possible. It was a pretty blatant hint, to me at least and obviously others as well.

Well, I guess I ain't so bright. I thought he was just referring to past speed lynches. But again, there are plenty of roles, dosen't make him finder or doc.

[WoodyPaige]

Well, I guess I ain't so bright. I thought he was just referring to past speed lynches. But again, there are plenty of roles, dosen't make him finder or doc.

Well he said he was the finder and no one counter claimed so its believable for now.

[Vicious89x]

Well he said he was the finder and no one counter claimed so its believable for now.

Essentially. And at this point I'm lurking because we're at a stalemate. I saw the trains starting and it was EXACTLY why I wanted a final post

[Dan.]

Here, I'm multiquoting just for Jets Things. And hopefully EY can survive another long post from me.

You need look no futher than the first 40 pages. At times it seems as if people are waiting to see what Doggin says so they know how to proceed. I can cite examples when I get home if you'd like.

My take on that was people wanted to hear from him because he was so absent at the beginning of the game. I know for myself, there were points where he would post something and leave, and later I'd want to hear more or see how it fit in with new information. I imagine if CTM or EY had the same absences, people would want to wait for them, too. I'm just having trouble seeing what makes Doggin so much more powerful than the others.

To reference your earlier post ...

Doggin is a master manipulator. Quite honestly I don't know that I'd ever trust him unless he was cop cleared-- and even then I'd wonder if it was because the cop was insane.

As far as examples in this game, I noticed he was applying the same pressure to Vic as I was (without the scruitny) and then immediately had all the answers as far as the town should proceed. That looked a little too... easy.

I also don't spend much time analyzing his and CTM's nerd wars. What's aggrivating about that is they know they are playing with newer players (myself included) yet they spend 2 pages going on ad naseum about scenarios we wouldn't have even thought of. I realize they get their rocks off but why the blather? meant to confuse? meant to promote trust because we are impressed with their knowledge of the game? Maybe not but it's certainly possible.

I'm not sure about EY yet but he's another one I don't trust (seeing a trend here? I don't trust anyone). The Robocop thing was a little over the top. I get the possibility that SMC could have had snake oil for sale but I didn't get the feeling he was trying to necessarily sell us on the idea. EY has also taken a couple jabs at me with "moron" and "fairy godmother" but they seem like feeble attempts to get me to go all Vic on him. Not going there yet.

Just about everyone says something "scummy" whether they realize it or not... At this point though, with the limited info we have, I find AVM the scummiest. I offer no guarantees about his guilt but I belive him to be either Mafia or the SK. That being said it wouldn't take too much convincing for me to switch to doggin.

Again, CTM also offered his own theory about what the first lynch meant. I thought that was something those three were known for doing. I bet we get one from EY at some point. I don't see why that distinguishes Doggin. Furthermore, the people who ended up voting/pressuring Vicious after Doggin's theory weren't saying, "Doggin our master, we follow you and your brilliant theory," but I think were mostly citing the same behaviors that made people suspicious of Vicious in the first place.

I'm not at all saying I think Doggin is innocent, but right now I don't see what makes him so much scummier than CTM or EY.

Last question for now, how new of a player are you? People have said they played games with you in the past, and I'm just wondering if there's a reason you seem to be playing up your inexperience. (I also happen to disagree with you on the CTM/Doggin debates because I think it's a good learning opportunity, but I can't really hold that against you. )

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Well he said he was the finder and no one counter claimed so its believable for now.

No, I mean that in the big tell that you're referring to, he could have been any role. I might be a half a mongoloid, but I caught that he revealed as finder. I was talking about before that.

[AVM]

Here, I'm multiquoting just for Jets Things. And hopefully EY can survive another long post from me.

My take on that was people wanted to hear from him because he was so absent at the beginning of the game. I know for myself, there were points where he would post something and leave, and later I'd want to hear more or see how it fit in with new information. I imagine if CTM or EY had the same absences, people would want to wait for them, too. I'm just having trouble seeing what makes Doggin so much more powerful than the others.

To reference your earlier post ...

Again, CTM also offered his own theory about what the first lynch meant. I thought that was something those three were known for doing. I bet we get one from EY at some point. I don't see why that distinguishes Doggin. Furthermore, the people who ended up voting/pressuring Vicious after Doggin's theory weren't saying, "Doggin our master, we follow you and your brilliant theory," but I think were mostly citing the same behaviors that made people suspicious of Vicious in the first place.

I'm not at all saying I think Doggin is innocent, but right now I don't see what makes him so much scummier than CTM or EY.

Last question for now, how new of a player are you? People have said they played games with you in the past, and I'm just wondering if there's a reason you seem to be playing up your inexperience. (I also happen to disagree with you on the CTM/Doggin debates because I think it's a good learning opportunity, but I can't really hold that against you. )

Great question. I'm assuming when he calls himself new, he's referring to at this site, but not 100% sure

[Dan.]

Heh - in the game that gave the world the Kivam Gambit, I spent day 1 vigorously targetting my scum partner, begging to be investigated, and tying myself to a number of innocent players in ways subtle and obvious. We succeeded in getting me lynched day 1 and my partner so securely confirmed as an innocent that she was the last man standing when the dust settled.

But the real fun was watching people try to unravel the mess I left them - it took four days of lynching innocents (he said he trusted her; he said he was suspicious of him; he was evasive about you!) before realizing that they needed to entirely ignore everything I'd said. It was a blast watching them pick up the poisoned breadcrumbs.

Damn, I hate being a townie . . .

Is this something we think it could be possible for JVoR to pull (granted, not to the same extent yours sounds like it was )? I'm still wondering what to make of the things he said to AVM, Sharrow, and Slats because I think it would be silly to assume he'd do the same things every game, and it's hard to tell where he was going with them. If we accept Slats as innocent, then we have JVoR on the one hand going after Jets Babe (innocent), and on the other hand defending Slats (innocent?) ... meanwhile questioning both AVM and Sharrow, seeming not entirely satisfied with AVM but accepting Sharrow's explanation for the time being.

[Dan.]

Great question. I'm assuming when he calls himself new, he's referring to at this site, but not 100% sure

And in that case, I don't really get his complaint that CTM and Doggin keep talking about things we newbies (himself included) couldn't possibly dream up. I'm assuming he's played more games than we have, but Slats seems pretty good at grappling with game scenarios, I at least try my best to follow their logic and enjoy learning from their conversations, and I guess I'm not sure how you feel about them.

[Doggin94it]

I love that idea. I've got a good one if we are allowed to do it.

I gave them a list of 20 movie/tv mafia names (including Al Capone) to create as stock mafia alt accounts. Game mods who want to use the accounts will assign them to the players at random

[Dan.]

Well, I guess I ain't so bright. I thought he was just referring to past speed lynches. But again, there are plenty of roles, dosen't make him finder or doc.

I get your point, since Vicious also noted the first person to press him about his comment was JVoR, and then Pac. And then Doggin did as well.

In thinking about it, though, this is something that I don't think necessarily counts as scummy behavior on Pac's part, or Doggin's. In Pac's case, I can see why a supposedly inexperienced player (when it comes to game strategies) might ask the question without thinking of the consequences, and in Doggin's case, he made the point that Vicious's comment is something scum would pick up on, too. If Vicious is innocent, he's dead the next night phase. This is different from randomly pressuring a player to share whether he has a role or not, since it was Vicious's mistake to bring it up.

[Vicious89x]

I gave them a list of 20 movie/tv mafia names (including Al Capone) to create as stock mafia alt accounts. Game mods who want to use the accounts will assign them to the players at random

Something tells me I'm gonna be Fredo.

[Doggin94it]

He could be Vig, Sk, or rival scum, how is he automatically innocent? Maybe he's hinted at a power role, but unless the hint was blatant, a townie wants him to keep quiet at that stage. There are plenty of roles, how does it help the town for his role to be specified that early?

You are missing the point. Whatever his "other role" is, if I'm mafia and he's not on my mafia team, the absolute last thing I would want is to make him be more careful. Whatever role he has - finder, roleblocker, vig, SK, rival scum - I'm taking him out that night (even if he's not dropping finder hints, the odds favor him being a town-helpful role rather than one that favors the mafia). And, as such, I don't want the doctor protecting Vicious (obviously, if vic is the doc, the kill will fail anyway). And the way to avoid vic being doctor protected is to let the hint slide.

As a townie, once Vic made that role claim role claim, there were only two possibilities:

1) He was telling the truth, innocent, and was going to be night killed unless we had a perceptive doc or a dumb mafia; or

2) He was lying, which we'd never know based on that vague role claim.

Pushing vic for more info eliminated the chance that the doc wouldn't protect him if he was innocent, and also gave us an enhanced ability to snag him if he was lying. Both good for the town, bad for the mafia - whether Vic is innocent or scum.

So how does "good for the town, bad for the mafia" translate as "playing scummy"?

[Doggin94it]

What are Alts, Doggin?

Shell accounts, used only for mafia games, assigned randomly to the players by the mods so that people cannot be voted for, killed, or analyzed based on what they've done in past games. This game you could be the guy behind the Tony Soprano Alt, next game behind John Rooney, next game behind Marcellus Wallace.

Of course, figuring out who's who then becomes part of the game too

But no more "lets kill bleedin because he won last game" or "that sounds logical but you're you, so I'm worried you're manipulating me" or "I have to investigate players A, B, C the first 3 nights"

[Vicious89x]

Shell accounts, used only for mafia games, assigned randomly to the players by the mods so that people cannot be voted for, killed, or analyzed based on what they've done in past games. This game you could be the guy behind the Tony Soprano Alt, next game behind John Rooney, next game behind Marcellus Wallace.

Of course, figuring out who's who then becomes part of the game too

But no more "lets kill bleedin because he won last game" or "that sounds logical but you're you, so I'm worried you're manipulating me" or "I have to investigate players A, B, C the first 3 nights"

I actually really like this idea, throws out the whole "Well you played like this last game" crap and you can change playing styles every time.

[Doggin94it]

Is this something we think it could be possible for JVoR to pull (granted, not to the same extent yours sounds like it was )? I'm still wondering what to make of the things he said to AVM, Sharrow, and Slats because I think it would be silly to assume he'd do the same things every game, and it's hard to tell where he was going with them. If we accept Slats as innocent, then we have JVoR on the one hand going after Jets Babe (innocent), and on the other hand defending Slats (innocent?) ... meanwhile questioning both AVM and Sharrow, seeming not entirely satisfied with AVM but accepting Sharrow's explanation for the time being.

Possible? yes. Probable? I don't think so, because he wasn't planning on dying last night.

[Pac]

Here, I'm multiquoting just for Jets Things. And hopefully EY can survive another long post from me.

My take on that was people wanted to hear from him because he was so absent at the beginning of the game. I know for myself, there were points where he would post something and leave, and later I'd want to hear more or see how it fit in with new information. I imagine if CTM or EY had the same absences, people would want to wait for them, too. I'm just having trouble seeing what makes Doggin so much more powerful than the others.

To reference your earlier post ...

Again, CTM also offered his own theory about what the first lynch meant. I thought that was something those three were known for doing. I bet we get one from EY at some point. I don't see why that distinguishes Doggin. Furthermore, the people who ended up voting/pressuring Vicious after Doggin's theory weren't saying, "Doggin our master, we follow you and your brilliant theory," but I think were mostly citing the same behaviors that made people suspicious of Vicious in the first place.

I'm not at all saying I think Doggin is innocent, but right now I don't see what makes him so much scummier than CTM or EY.

Last question for now, how new of a player are you? People have said they played games with you in the past, and I'm just wondering if there's a reason you seem to be playing up your inexperience. (I also happen to disagree with you on the CTM/Doggin debates because I think it's a good learning opportunity, but I can't really hold that against you. )

- I'm new to this site and still relatively new to mafia. I've played a total of 4 games 2 of which I was gone by the end of day 1. I've been playing up my inexperience because well.. I'm inexperienced. I've only played in 1 game lasting longer than a week the bulk of which was spent attacking that vomitous mass CTM.

- I fell victim to Doggin Koresh in the other game which is why I admittedly still might be holding a grudge He did the same things he's doing now.. this cavalier "I got it guys don't worry" persona where everyone seemed to hop on his back as he led us straight to our deaths... afterwards he had the audacity to post a youtube vid with some doosh saying "winner winner, chicken dinner"... I almost threw my keyboard out the window.

[Dan.]

Shell accounts, used only for mafia games, assigned randomly to the players by the mods so that people cannot be voted for, killed, or analyzed based on what they've done in past games. This game you could be the guy behind the Tony Soprano Alt, next game behind John Rooney, next game behind Marcellus Wallace.

Of course, figuring out who's who then becomes part of the game too

But no more "lets kill bleedin because he won last game" or "that sounds logical but you're you, so I'm worried you're manipulating me" or "I have to investigate players A, B, C the first 3 nights"

This sounds absolutely awesome.

[CTM]

You are missing the point. Whatever his "other role" is, if I'm mafia and he's not on my mafia team, the absolute last thing I would want is to make him be more careful. Whatever role he has - finder, roleblocker, vig, SK, rival scum - I'm taking him out that night (even if he's not dropping finder hints, the odds favor him being a town-helpful role rather than one that favors the mafia). And, as such, I don't want the doctor protecting Vicious (obviously, if vic is the doc, the kill will fail anyway). And the way to avoid vic being doctor protected is to let the hint slide.

As a townie, once Vic made that role claim role claim, there were only two possibilities:

1) He was telling the truth, innocent, and was going to be night killed unless we had a perceptive doc or a dumb mafia; or

2) He was lying, which we'd never know based on that vague role claim.

Pushing vic for more info eliminated the chance that the doc wouldn't protect him if he was innocent, and also gave us an enhanced ability to snag him if he was lying. Both good for the town, bad for the mafia - whether Vic is innocent or scum.

So how does "good for the town, bad for the mafia" translate as "playing scummy"?

When are we talking about? Once he made it clear he had a role then he needed to fess up, when he was just at the let me have the last word stage I think he was fine, considering he was self voting not long before that and it's a common request for roled or unroled..

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

I get your point, since Vicious also noted the first person to press him about his comment was JVoR, and then Pac. And then Doggin did as well.

In thinking about it, though, this is something that I don't think necessarily counts as scummy behavior on Pac's part, or Doggin's. In Pac's case, I can see why a supposedly inexperienced player (when it comes to game strategies) might ask the question without thinking of the consequences, and in Doggin's case, he made the point that Vicious's comment is something scum would pick up on, too. If Vicious is innocent, he's dead the next night phase. This is different from randomly pressuring a player to share whether he has a role or not, since it was Vicious's mistake to bring it up.

I think you make a good point, I just still don't see the upside to making him reveal that early.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

You are missing the point. Whatever his "other role" is, if I'm mafia and he's not on my mafia team, the absolute last thing I would want is to make him be more careful. Whatever role he has - finder, roleblocker, vig, SK, rival scum - I'm taking him out that night (even if he's not dropping finder hints, the odds favor him being a town-helpful role rather than one that favors the mafia). And, as such, I don't want the doctor protecting Vicious (obviously, if vic is the doc, the kill will fail anyway). And the way to avoid vic being doctor protected is to let the hint slide.

As a townie, once Vic made that role claim role claim, there were only two possibilities:

1) He was telling the truth, innocent, and was going to be night killed unless we had a perceptive doc or a dumb mafia; or

2) He was lying, which we'd never know based on that vague role claim.

Pushing vic for more info eliminated the chance that the doc wouldn't protect him if he was innocent, and also gave us an enhanced ability to snag him if he was lying. Both good for the town, bad for the mafia - whether Vic is innocent or scum.

So how does "good for the town, bad for the mafia" translate as "playing scummy"?

Ok, I see your point now. Sorry, I'm quite dense.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Shell accounts, used only for mafia games, assigned randomly to the players by the mods so that people cannot be voted for, killed, or analyzed based on what they've done in past games. This game you could be the guy behind the Tony Soprano Alt, next game behind John Rooney, next game behind Marcellus Wallace.

Of course, figuring out who's who then becomes part of the game too

But no more "lets kill bleedin because he won last game" or "that sounds logical but you're you, so I'm worried you're manipulating me" or "I have to investigate players A, B, C the first 3 nights"

That absolutely reeks of awesomeness.

[ZachEY]

Well, I'm here.

The votes on Doggin are on him because he's doggin. That's pretty much all that's changed, no?

[ZachEY]

Since little has changed, and I'm bored, I'm going to open the floor to questions.

You can ask EY anything now, and I will give you the best answer I can. I may or may not call you names during this process.

[CTM]

Well, I'm here.

The votes on Doggin are on him because he's doggin. That's pretty much all that's changed, no?

My vote is inspite of it being doggin.. Normally I don't like to go after certain players early but I've gotten a bad vibe based on some questionable logic around not voting for SMC..

[Vicious89x]

Since little has changed, and I'm bored, I'm going to open the floor to questions.

You can ask EY anything now, and I will give you the best answer I can. I may or may not call you names during this process.

Why are you Emmy Nominated.

Why He-man.

[Doggin94it]

- I'm new to this site and still relatively new to mafia. I've played a total of 4 games 2 of which I was gone by the end of day 1. I've been playing up my inexperience because well.. I'm inexperienced. I've only played in 1 game lasting longer than a week the bulk of which was spent attacking that vomitous mass CTM.

- I fell victim to Doggin Koresh in the other game which is why I admittedly still might be holding a grudge He did the same things he's doing now.. this cavalier "I got it guys don't worry" persona where everyone seemed to hop on his back as he led us straight to our deaths... afterwards he had the audacity to post a youtube vid with some doosh saying "winner winner, chicken dinner"... I almost threw my keyboard out the window.

http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171451&page=3

I had to go back and find that. Considering you were the target of my fake reveal, I understand why you're still bitter.

[SMC]

BTW, given that JN mafia has reached this stage of its life-cycle, I've asked Max and Thor for permission to create Mafia Alts.

Hope Max agrees

That's definately a great idea.

We claim the game is based on what is happening on the game, but we're voting based on how a player played before, his rep, etc.

It definately will be cool to have aliases and guess what role the player has but who he really is.

[Doggin94it]

When are we talking about? Once he made it clear he had a role then he needed to fess up, when he was just at the let me have the last word stage I think he was fine, considering he was self voting not long before that and it's a common request for roled or unroled..

Look back at the posts immediately after his - it was clear that everyone was interpreting it as a role claim.

[ZachEY]

Why are you Emmy Nominated.

Why He-man.

I was an Editor and an Associate Producer on the Series Baseball's Golden Age on Fox Sports Net.

It was nominated for Outstanding Edited Sports Series/Anthology.

http://www.emmyonline.org/mediacenter/sports_30th_nominees.html

When I first got to JI, I messed around with a lot of avatars. I didn't want a Jets one, because it was far too typical. So, after continuously searching for different things, I remembered a He-Man video, 'He-Man sings 4 Non-Blondes', that I liked, and as a youngster I had all the action figures and such, so I went with it.

It became some what of a cult hit, and everyone responded to it either very positively, or called me gay, so I kinda just kept it. Now, it would seem weird without it, right?

[CTM]

Look back at the posts immediately after his - it was clear that everyone was interpreting it as a role claim.

And it died down quickly, at the time I was thinking he was roleless and just being dramatic..

I don't think I've ever seen a town power role throw a tantrum about mod favortism and self vote...

[Vicious89x]

I was an Editor and an Associate Producer on the Series Baseball's Golden Age on Fox Sports Net.

It was nominated for Outstanding Edited Sports Series/Anthology.

http://www.emmyonline.org/mediacenter/sports_30th_nominees.html

When I first got to JI, I messed around with a lot of avatars. I didn't want a Jets one, because it was far too typical. So, after continuously searching for different things, I remembered a He-Man video, 'He-Man sings 4 Non-Blondes', that I liked, and as a youngster I had all the action figures and such, so I went with it.

It became some what of a cult hit, and everyone responded to it either very positively, or called me gay, so I kinda just kept it. Now, it would seem weird without it, right?

Fascinating. I know feel like I really know you.

Seriously congrats on the nom, must feel good.

Back to the game... I really have no clue where the town is going, BG, are we looking at a deadline?

[CTM]

I was an Editor and an Associate Producer on the Series Baseball's Golden Age on Fox Sports Net.

It was nominated for Outstanding Edited Sports Series/Anthology.

http://www.emmyonline.org/mediacenter/sports_30th_nominees.html

When I first got to JI, I messed around with a lot of avatars. I didn't want a Jets one, because it was far too typical. So, after continuously searching for different things, I remembered a He-Man video, 'He-Man sings 4 Non-Blondes', that I liked, and as a youngster I had all the action figures and such, so I went with it.

It became some what of a cult hit, and everyone responded to it either very positively, or called me gay, so I kinda just kept it. Now, it would seem weird without it, right?

Congrats!!!