Osi Available (For 2nd Round Pick?) - MERGED

[ECURB]

If you know that a pass rush is the same a pressuring the QB, then what you are complaining about? Do you know what the word "contradiction" means?

And I love how you used the AFCCG as an example...because we played the league sack leading team in the Steelers. Guess how many sacks they had against us? 2. Guess how many we had against them? 2. And we had Big Ben flushed out of the pocket quite a bit once we shut down the run. They didnt score in the 2nd half.

This is the Rex effect... people get upset when there isn't a huge play on every play... people are shocked when the other team completes a pass or gets a 1st down... Rex has fans thinking the JETS can win a game 45-0 and never let the other team complete a pass or run for a yard.

[visajets]

If you know that a pass rush is the same a pressuring the QB, then what you are complaining about? Do you know what the word "contradiction" means?

And I love how you used the AFCCG as an example...because we played the league sack leading team in the Steelers. Guess how many sacks they had against us? 2. Guess how many we had against them? 2. And we had Big Ben flushed out of the pocket quite a bit once we shut down the run. They didnt score in the 2nd half.

They WON the game we LOST. The times Big Ben had all day to throw killed us. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing and discuss the facts.

[JiFtheOracle]

I've always been uncomfortable with the 3-4.

I think under perfect circumstances it's a superior defense. But, I think it puts too much pressure on one player - the nose tackle. In the 3-4, the nose tackle HAS to occupy 2 offensive linemen on EVERY play. To me, that's just too much of a burden for one player to take on. The human body isn't meant to take that kind of beating for 20 weeks a year - especially at 350 pounds, which is the minimum weight you need to be an effective nose tackle in the NFL. I've always felt that if you want to run an effective 3-4 scheme in the NFL, you really need TWO dominant nose tackles that you can rotate in and out. And those guys just aren't out there.

If I was an NFL nose tackle, I'd demand to be the highest paid player on the team...but that's a topic for another thread.

Bottom line is, I'd like to think Rex is smart enough to mold his defense to take advantage of the strengths of his personnel. And, Osi would be an upgrade over anyone we have as a pass rusher.

So, my philosophy would be to bring in the best talent possible, then mold the gameplan to maximize the talents of the players you have.

All that said, Osi is not coming to the Jets. He and his agent are grossly overvaluing his worth.

Interesting take...but it seems the best D's in the league lately have a 3-4 base.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

Interesting take...but it seems the best D's in the league lately have a 3-4 base.

Their 3-4 is perfect, ours is not, obviously.

[JiFtheOracle]

They WON the game we LOST. The times Big Ben had all day to throw killed us. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing and discuss the facts.

You want facts genius. Here you go.

Big Ben in that game completed 10 passes...I'll repeat that, 10. He threws for 139 yards, I'll repeat that too, 139. Big Ben, had zero TD's, just so you're following, thats 0. Big Ben, threw 2 INT's, thats right 2.

His QB rating was 35.5. He was flushed out of the pocket, 11 times for 22 yards rushing. He was sacked twice and fumbled twice.

I'm sure with me providing these FACTS, that you'll come to the conclusion that a terrible day like that, had nothing to do with the NYJETS getting pressure on Big Ben.

Carry on.

[visajets]

You want facts genius. Here you go.

Big Ben in that game completed 10 passes...I'll repeat that, 10. He threws for 139 yards, I'll repeat that too, 139. Big Ben, had zero TD's, just so you're following, thats 0. Big Ben, threw 2 INT's, thats right 2.

His QB rating was 35.5. He was flushed out of the pocket, 11 times for 22 yards rushing. He was sacked twice and fumbled twice.

I'm sure with me providing these FACTS, that you'll come to the conclusion that a terrible day like that, had nothing to do with the NYJETS getting pressure on Big Ben.

Carry on.

The most important fact you FAILED to mention was the NYJETS lost the game. I blame it on the goal line cluster of plays and not having a pass rush to pressure Big Ben he completed key passes for field position when he needed it most.

Carry on.

[JiFtheOracle]

The most important fact you FAILED to mention was the NYJETS lost the game. I blame it on the goal line cluster of plays and not having a pass rush to pressure Big Ben he completed key passes for field position when he needed it most.

Carry on.

I've got nothing

[InstantClassic]

I've always been uncomfortable with the 3-4.

I think under perfect circumstances it's a superior defense. But, I think it puts too much pressure on one player - the nose tackle. In the 3-4, the nose tackle HAS to occupy 2 offensive linemen on EVERY play. To me, that's just too much of a burden for one player to take on. The human body isn't meant to take that kind of beating for 20 weeks a year - especially at 350 pounds, which is the minimum weight you need to be an effective nose tackle in the NFL. I've always felt that if you want to run an effective 3-4 scheme in the NFL, you really need TWO dominant nose tackles that you can rotate in and out. And those guys just aren't out there.

If I was an NFL nose tackle, I'd demand to be the highest paid player on the team...but that's a topic for another thread.

Bottom line is, I'd like to think Rex is smart enough to mold his defense to take advantage of the strengths of his personnel. And, Osi would be an upgrade over anyone we have as a pass rusher.

So, my philosophy would be to bring in the best talent possible, then mold the gameplan to maximize the talents of the players you have.

All that said, Osi is not coming to the Jets. He and his agent are grossly overvaluing his worth.

good post!

[JoeWillie]

The Jets do not play a traditional 34 Defense, although their personnel makes it look like they do (i.e big nose tackle, 4 backers, etc...).

Rex's defense is really an advanced hybrid of Buddy Ryan's 46, which allows a bit more protection against the pass than the original 46. Rex utilizes many more box alignments and disguises than the 46, but like it's predessesor, the defense puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the corners.

I actually attended a Coaching clinic a few years back that Mike Pettine taught on Rex's defense. Both he and Ryan were with the Ravens at the time, but it is essentially the same defense the Jets run now.

If you want to understand the principles of it and how it is different than the traditional 34, and more advanced than Buddy's 46, I would highly recommend the book that Rex wrote on the 46 Defense. I read it and it's very good. It's a bit technical, with a lot of coaching jargon, but even if you don't have a coaching background, you can understand the major concepts. It's a good read if you love the X's and O's of football.

I actually deployed some simplified version of the defense on my high school defense with some good success.

Alot of coaches are scared to use it because of the "big play" risk, but if you think about it, there aren't many Tom Bradys or Peyton Mannings playing high school football, and even with the advent of the Spread offense at the high school level, most teams are still "run first" teams, at least in the smaller high school divisions.

I believe there's also a video on the topic, although I haven't watched it.

[visajets]

The Jets do not play a traditional 34 Defense, although their personnel makes it look like they do (i.e big nose tackle, 4 backers, etc...).

Rex's defense is really an advanced hybrid of Buddy Ryan's 46, which allows a bit more protection against the pass than the original 46. Rex utilizes many more box alignments and disguises than the 46, but like it's predessesor, the defense puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the corners.

I actually attended a Coaching clinic a few years back that Mike Pettine taught on Rex's defense. Both he and Ryan were with the Ravens at the time, but it is essentially the same defense the Jets run now.

If you want to understand the principles of it and how it is different than the traditional 34, and more advanced than Buddy's 46, I would highly recommend the book that Rex wrote on the 46 Defense. I read it and it's very good. It's a bit technical, with a lot of coaching jargon, but even if you don't have a coaching background, you can understand the major concepts. It's a good read if you love the X's and O's of football.

I actually deployed some simplified version of the defense on my high school defense with some good success.

Alot of coaches are scared to use it because of the "big play" risk, but if you think about it, there aren't many Tom Bradys or Peyton Mannings playing high school football, and even with the advent of the Spread offense at the high school level, most teams are still "run first" teams, at least in the smaller high school divisions.

I believe there's also a video on the topic, although I haven't watched it.

THANK YOU JOE WILLIE. I hope all the stubborn 3-4 defense parrots 3-4 defense parrots 3-4 defense parrots read this and absorb your knowledge and explanation.

[Bleedin Green]

THANK YOU JOE WILLIE. I hope all the stubborn 3-4 defense parrots 3-4 defense parrots 3-4 defense parrots read this and absorb your knowledge and explanation.

As true as that all may be, it still doesn't change the fact that Osi doesn't have the size to be an every down DL or the abilities (that is, for the responsibilities other than just pass rush) to be an every down LB, in Rex's defense. You don't spend a first round pick and $10+ mil / year on a part time player.

[JoeWillie]

As true as that all may be, it still doesn't change the fact that Osi doesn't have the size to be an every down DL or the abilities (that is, for the responsibilities other than just pass rush) to be an every down LB, in Rex's defense. You don't spend a first round pick and $10+ mil / year on a part time player.

That's your opinion.

I don't think any of us really know for sure whether or not he could be a productive OLB in this system.

I do know he's an athlete with speed and keep in mind that Terrell Suggs is the same size as Osi.

That said, at $10M per, I would pass however, if you could get him for 2 years at less than that, he might be worth the gamble.

If they were to go get Osi, I would have a lot of faith in Rex's judgement on whether or not he could be utilized.

[Klecko73isGod]

That's your opinion.

I don't think any of us really know for sure whether or not he could be a productive OLB in this system.

I do know he's an athlete with speed and keep in mind that Terrell Suggs is the same size as Osi.

That said, at $10M per, I would pass however, if you could get him for 2 years at less than that, he might be worth the gamble.

If they were to go get Osi, I would have a lot of faith in Rex's judgement on whether or not he could be utilized.

They are the same size but very different players.

Osi's more of a pure pass rusher than Suggs. Suggs is a much more complete player.

I would compare Osi more to a John Abraham or Mark Gastineau - one dimensional pass rushers, while Suggs is a complete package at OLB - more reminiscent of a Wilbur Marshall (an underrated OLB who flourished both in Buddy Ryan's 46 and a flex-hybrid defense in Washington.)

[visajets]

That's your opinion.

I don't think any of us really know for sure whether or not he could be a productive OLB in this system.

I do know he's an athlete with speed and keep in mind that Terrell Suggs is the same size as Osi.

That said, at $10M per, I would pass however, if you could get him for 2 years at less than that, he might be worth the gamble.

If they were to go get Osi, I would have a lot of faith in Rex's judgement on whether or not he could be utilized.

JoeWillie you speak volumes for fans who fully understand the game of football. Rex can do wonders with players. Osi is a defensive minded football player with great athletic abilities, to think he wouldnt benefit our system is being pig headed and flat out stupid.

We wasted a draft pick,money and time on Vernon Gholston, this team hasnt had a glimmer of a pass rush since JAbe left, if Osi can be brought in for the right deal im all for it.

[Bleedin Green]

That's your opinion.

I don't think any of us really know for sure whether or not he could be a productive OLB in this system.

I do know he's an athlete with speed and keep in mind that Terrell Suggs is the same size as Osi.

That said, at $10M per, I would pass however, if you could get him for 2 years at less than that, he might be worth the gamble.

If they were to go get Osi, I would have a lot of faith in Rex's judgement on whether or not he could be utilized.

Suggs and Osi are the same size, and Suggs also starts at LB and not DE, which is the point I made regarding Osi's size. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe Osi can handle the every down coverage and run support responsibilities of playing LB in these scheme, as he has never done that in the entirety of his career. Is it possible he could handle it? Sure, but he's done nothing to prove that's the case, and certainly not enough to justify the draft pick and money involved in acquiring him. The only thing the Jets could know for sure they would be getting out of him is a situational pass rusher.

[Bleedin Green]

JoeWillie you speak volumes for fans who fully understand the game of football. Rex can do wonders with players. Osi is a defensive minded football player with great athletic abilities, to think he wouldnt benefit our system is being pig headed and flat out stupid.

We wasted a draft pick,money and time on Vernon Gholston, this team hasnt had a glimmer of a pass rush since JAbe left, if Osi can be brought in for the right deal im all for it.

Oh yeah, because you're the one to judge who are "fans who fully understand the game of football". Yeah, you're really helping your cause here. Someone who agrees with you is automatically a great genius and everyone who dare disagree with you an idiot, right? Why don't you give us your fantastic educational clinic on 3-4 NTs again to really drive the point home.

[JoeWillie]

They are the same size but very different players.

Osi's more of a pure pass rusher than Suggs. Suggs is a much more complete player.

I would compare Osi more to a John Abraham or Mark Gastineau - one dimensional pass rushers, while Suggs is a complete package at OLB - more reminiscent of a Wilbur Marshall (an underrated OLB who flourished both in Buddy Ryan's 46 and a flex-hybrid defense in Washington.)

OK, you lost me there.

Did you ever see Wilber Marshall play? Terell Suggs is nothing like Wilber Marshall. Wilber Marshall averaged over a 100 tackles for about a 6 year stretch.

Without checking the numbers, I would guess that Suggs has never had a single year with more than 50 or 60 tackles, and is in fact more of a pass rusher than Marshall ever was.

Marshall and Suggs are/were very different players.

In fact, I'm sure if you checked their stats, Suggs more closely resembles Osi than he does Marshall. He's more of a pass rusher than anything else.

[visajets]

Oh yeah, because you're the one to judge who are "fans who fully understand the game of football". Yeah, you're really helping your cause here. Someone who agrees with you is automatically a great genius and everyone who dare disagree with you an idiot, right? Why don't you give us your fantastic educational clinic on 3-4 NTs again to really drive the point home.

Im not here to argue,ridicule or attack other posters or do I care what you think my cause is sorry. I know what I said and I know what was misconstrued and spun all for the entertainment value of a few who think they know everything. It goes from a football discussion to personal attacks.

[Bleedin Green]

Im not here to argue,ridicule or attack other posters or do I care what you think my cause is sorry. I know what I said and I know what was misconstrued and spun all for the entertainment value of a few who think they know everything. It goes from a football discussion to personal attacks.

There's nothing to misconstrue, you blatantly stated that anyone who dare disagree with you doesn't fully understand the game of football. It's pure nonsense. It's amazing that you can't get along with such a significant number of posters on this board, but somehow it's always everyone's fault but yours.

[Plus One]

There's nothing to misconstrue, you blatantly stated that anyone who dare disagree with you doesn't fully understand the game of football. It's pure nonsense. It's amazing that you can't get along with such a significant number of posters on this board, but somehow it's always everyone's fault but yours.

LOL

Who made you boss?

[visajets]

There's nothing to misconstrue, you blatantly stated that anyone who dare disagree with you doesn't fully understand the game of football. It's pure nonsense. It's amazing that you can't get along with such a significant number of posters on this board, but somehow it's always everyone's fault but yours.

I have a suggestion for you,put me on ignore. Its easy to do let me know if you need help I can walk you through it.

[ECURB]

JoeWillie you speak volumes for fans who fully understand the game of football. Rex can do wonders with players. Osi is a defensive minded football player with great athletic abilities, to think he wouldnt benefit our system is being pig headed and flat out stupid.

We wasted a draft pick,money and time on Vernon Gholston, this team hasnt had a glimmer of a pass rush since JAbe left, if Osi can be brought in for the right deal im all for it.

[visajets]

[Bleedin Green]

LOL

Who made you boss?

You realize that response makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, don't you?

[visajets]

[JoeWillie]

Geez, Ecurb ... thought you were my friend.

[JiFtheOracle]

There's nothing to misconstrue, you blatantly stated that anyone who dare disagree with you doesn't fully understand the game of football. It's pure nonsense. It's amazing that you can't get along with such a significant number of posters on this board, but somehow it's always everyone's fault but yours.

The guy constantly plays the victim. You just got to let him be. I tried having a conversation with him and instead of appreciating my take (which was spot on) he told me I was arguing for the sake of arguing, , whatever that means.

He's pretty hopeless, you just got to try and avoid talking Football with him.

[stoicsentry]

No chance we get osi

[visajets]

The guy constantly plays the victim. You just got to let him be. I tried having a conversation with him and instead of appreciating my take (which was spot on) he told me I was arguing for the sake of arguing, , whatever that means.

He's pretty hopeless, you just got to try and avoid talking Football with him.

Hopeless? Because I wanted to sign Osi? T0m Shane was right about you.

[JiFtheOracle]

Hopeless? Because I wanted to sign Osi? T0m Shane was right about you.

No because you're unwilling to accept anyone who disagrees with you, you talk about both sides your mouth which leads to contradictions, you spin agruments and change them as you please and you constantly play the victim.

T0mGyane would agree.

[HessStation]

I'd like Ham's take on this.

[Plus One]

I'd like Ham's take on this.

I like ham steak too.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I'd like Ham's take on this.

I just got a craving for a taylor ham, egg, and cheese on a plain bagel.

[visajets]

No because you're unwilling to accept anyone who disagrees with you, you talk about both sides your mouth which leads to contradictions, you spin agruments and change them as you please and you constantly play the victim.

T0mGyane would agree.

Whatever your right you win. Happy now

[GREENSMACKS]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/08/the_new_york_giants_have.html

GET ME SOME OF THAT FIVE HOUR ENERGY!!!!!