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Coples as an OLB? Is Rex desparate or clueless here?

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When you know your offense will be anorexic ginger living in Alaska anemic you have to get creative and all experimental and sh*t on defense. Rex will make the defense sizzle this year.  

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When you know your offense will be anorexic ginger living in Alaska anemic you have to get creative and all experimental and sh*t on defense. Rex will make the defense sizzle this year.

In order for this defense to sizzle Rex will need to eat something large and sh!t out a pro bowl safety or 2.

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In order for this defense to sizzle Rex will need to eat something large and sh!t out a pro bowl safety or 2.

 

 Bush and Landry are going to play great at safety, imho. When I went to visit the Jets last year Kerley said that Bush was a young player that had the best chance to make a big impact in the league next year and I think Landry will return back to Baltimore form. I know its a log shot going on this info - but I kinda believe the guy who practices against him everyday.

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In order for this defense to sizzle Rex will need to eat something large and sh!t out a pro bowl safety or 2.

 

Let's see how that plays out.  Pretty sure until last year we never had a pro bowl safety under Rex.  I think a pass rush from the outside and some pressure up the middle to collapse the pocket might help as well.  

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Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since.  Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)

 

 

 

 

 

Jets HC 2009-2013 (most of these guys will get their first extended action in 2013):

  • Wilkerson
  • Ellis
  • Bush/Allen
  • Coples
  • Davis
  • Milliner
  • Richardson

Other noteworthy who were here before Rex arrived:

  • Pouha (didn't start - or do much of anything - until Rex got here)
  • DeVito (same thing)
  • Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since.  Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)
  • Revis (I'm sure he was going to be great anyway, but it's convenient to say he was going to be every bit as great in Ryan's absence.  Went from mere 1x pro bowler who wasn't even 2nd-team all-pro under Mangini to perennial first team all-pro, arguably the game's best defender at any position, and likely HOFer under Ryan)

Ravens DL coach 1999-2004, DC 2005-2008:

  • Ngata (round 1)
  • Johnson (round 4)
  • Scott (undrafted)
  • Leonhard (undrafted)
  • AdaliusThomas (round 6)
  • Dawan Landry (round 5)
  • Kemoeatu (undrafted; turned into a beast under Rex, parlayed that into a giant contract from Carolina, and was mediocre without Rex)
  • Will Demps (undrafted; started for half a decade)
  • Marques Douglas (undrafted then cut by NO; Rex turned him into a starter also)
  • Anthony Weaver (round 2)
  • Kelly Gregg (6th rounder cut by 2 teams, picked up off the street and developed into Baltimore's starting NT for almost a decade)

He's nowhere near perfect, and may very well be fired after this season, but the guy knows defense, is big on teaching technique and has coached up nothing and lower-talent players to be good and good players to be great.  If any offensive players developed really well here it would be incidental, as I doubt he played a major part in it beyond personal encouragement.

 

First of all do you really think Rex had a say with the Ravens ? That team was full of hall of famers when Rex moved into his positions as DL/DC . Ozzie made those picks not Rex. Theres a reason the Ravens did not make Rex the HC and brougt in John Harbaugh. because harbaugh has a brain and knows how to MANAGE a fiitball team Rex has no clue. So while he may be a good DC and DL coach he lacks the Brains for what we need him for and thats to be the head coach of the WHOLE football team, not half of it or one thrid of it.

 

When it comes to Cromartie saying he tackles now is laughable. Ive seen him make a few hits last year on players in compromising positions in relation to him but if a RB is heading towards Cro with a full head of steam dont expect much at all. He will either crumble or avoid the contact any way he can. A few hits does not make a tackler ... Revis was a tackler, Cro will never be one . You also listed Cromartie as being here when Rex arrived and he was not.

 

Rex came to the Jets and we had Above average talent here. He also brought Leonhard, Douglas and Scott to help on every tier of the defense. Every year the defense has started to drop off and they have never stepped up in a big moment. They put up the stats but many times can't shut games down or get off the field on 3rd down. They are certainly NOT the Ravens by any stretch not even close.

 

You bring up the draft picks and say that the Jets have only drafted 2 defensive players per the last few years but those picks happen to be 4 defensive lineman in rounds 1 and 2 the past 4 years while impact skill players go undrafted on this team until the 4th + rounds. Only one that comes to mind is Stephen Hill in round 2 last year. Im certain Rex has little input on offensive moves since the Idiot constantly proclaims his ignorance on that side of the ball. The only good skill player added to this team in yearrrrrs is Jeremy Kerley and hes a nice player but hes not turning the league upside down either. 

 

Most teams that make it to, or have the talent to compete in the AFCCG should never drop off as fast as we did. After years 1 and 2 this team was a few skill players away from getting to a SB .... Who did we bring in ?

 

Year 2 -- Santonio Holmes - Pitt thought so much of him they basically dumped him for a 5th rounder --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Plaxico Burress - Fresh out of jail and 34 years old -- Jets do not re sign nor does anyone else --- Known Loudmouth 

Year 3 -- Derrick Mason - Loud mouth trouble maker 38 years old who Rex claimed would have 90 receptions yet he was released in week 4 --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Did not Sign Braylon Edwards --- Who was certainly trouble off the field but did have a good on the field relationship with our young QB. Certainly was not shooting himself in the leg at a night club. 

 

Lets use the Ravens as an example ...this team has been close for many years. They know they have a good defense so they set their sights on improving the offense and the skill players on that side of the ball. They actully tried until they hit it and won the SB the key to that SB and probably the most important move was bringing in Anquan Boldin who played lights out in the playoffs and they won it all. Boldin is a damn good WR and a good lockerroom guy ... The Ravens also did a great job handling Joe Flacco getting him Ray Rice and other Skill players on offense to help his growth as a QB.

 

The Jets in a similar situation with a very good defense and a few offensive players away from truly contending for a SB bring in IDIOTS and HAS BEENS and expect the same results and Its been laughable for the past 4 years and everyone seems to get this. Its the real reason we have the clown label.

 

Bottom Line --- The Ravens did it right ....The Jets did it wrong under Rex Ryans so called watch. They continue to do it wrong.

 

This team needs LB's and Safeties to which are the biggest holes on our defense so Rex Drafts yet another DT in this years draft ??????????? Dumps Revis (understandable to some extent) and Signs a rookie with Imnjury Problems and 5 surgeries in the past 3 years ???????  Im OK with Geno Smith and I hope he can really make a difference but who the **** is he throwing the ball too ? Certainly its about time we got some explosive RB's but neither one has shown the durability to make us rest easy .

 

I think Idzik stayed true to his board so I wont push to hard aganist the Richardson pick and he deserves the benifit of the doubt at least until year 3. But Im concerned about how our defense is being built and how our offense has been neglected, are we oncourse to ruin another QB ?

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Tom Shane getting smacked around is awesome!!!

Rex has had a limited amount of picks. 2 of his 4 we've actually seen play were in the 30 range and he did find/develop a pro bowler, he's just got robbed last season.

Also, there is no harm in playing players at different positions. So they learn a different position? How's that bad? He can just put him back where he's natural with no harm done. This OLB for Q is getting way to much attention. It's like, not a big deal. Good coaches find ways to get their best players on the field.

Edited by JiF

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Rex has had a limited amount of picks. 2 of his 4 we've actually seen play were in the 30 range and he did find/develop a pro bowler, he's just got robbed last season.

Yeah, it's shameful how few resources have been dedicated to the defense since Rex got here.

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Woke up about twenty minutes ago, opened this thread, had only the vaguest recollection of screaming about Rex Ryan at 3:50 a.m. on a message board. Really need to reevaluate where my life is.

That said, you Rex apologists are exactly like the Herm apologists in his last days, and it'll be amusing watching you people turn on Rex ex post facto the same way to rolled over on Herm.

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Yeah, it's shameful how few resources have been dedicated to the defense since Rex got here.

I'm on the phone or I'd do the research on this but the majority of Rex's drafts have been used on offense, trades and FAs too.

I've battled this correctly about 100 times when people claim he's ignored the offense. That's false. Like you. They just haven't worked out.

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Woke up about twenty minutes ago, opened this thread, had only the vaguest recollection of screaming about Rex Ryan at 3:50 a.m. on a message board. Really need to reevaluate where my life is.

That said, you Rex apologists are exactly like the Herm apologists in his last days, and it'll be amusing watching you people turn on Rex ex post facto the same way to rolled over on Herm.

You do need reevaluate. Nobody appologies for Rex. This whole board hates him except me.. You're just saying stupid sh*t.

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You do need reevaluate. Nobody appologies for Rex. This whole board hates him except me.. You're just saying stupid sh*t.

If you're the only one saying something, wouldn't that make you the stupid sh*t? Who are you on the phone with, btw?

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Woke up about twenty minutes ago, opened this thread, had only the vaguest recollection of screaming about Rex Ryan at 3:50 a.m. on a message board. Really need to reevaluate where my life is.

That said, you Rex apologists are exactly like the Herm apologists in his last days, and it'll be amusing watching you people turn on Rex ex post facto the same way to rolled over on Herm.

Big, big difference between Rex and Herm and you know it. Herm is a clown on TV now, because that's the best job he can get - ever. He will never coach football again. He'll never be spoken about as a potential football coach. Ditto Mangini, who was maybe qualified to be a quality assistant coach when Belichick promoted him to DC.

Rex, OTOH, will -at a bare minimum- be a defensive coordinator in the NFL for as long as he wants to be one. And he'll be very good at it, too.

That said, I have to hand it to you. You're playing this like the skilled political operative you are; attacking Rex's strengths. You'll get the polls swinging in your favor in no time. Sperm's just throwing facts around. No one pays any attention to facts. Vitriol, that's what wins these debates. :)

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I think Shane's point is that its more than fair to question Rex's logic with this Coples move. His track record in developing defensive talent as the Jets Head Coach is nothing more than average.

 

And seriously, how many scouts made write ups on Coples being a potential 3-4 OLB? It is not his skillset. The idea of Coples covering a TE is laughable.

 

It may or may not work. But the point here is that its fair to question Rex.

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I think Shane's point is that its more than fair to question Rex's logic with this Coples move. His track record in developing defensive talent as the Jets Head Coach is nothing more than average.

 

And seriously, how many scouts made write ups on Coples being a potential 3-4 OLB? It is not his skillset. The idea of Coples covering a TE is laughable.

 

It may or may not work. But the point here is that its fair to question Rex.

 

while I agree with you on your Coples assessment I dont think he will be used as an every down OLB I do not think thats Rex's intentions. He will be used in passing down primarily as a pass rusher in no way will he be covering TE's in any capacity unless he loses 50 pounds and lets just pray Rex did not ask yet another player to mess with his weight.

 

personally I think Coples is a DT along with Richardson and I think the Jets should sport a front 4 more often than not. with Wilerson DE Coples DT Richardson DT Insert DE   and run it in a rotation with Ellis giving breaks to Copeles and Richardson as needed rotating the DE spot in running/Passing downs would be a good idea as well but no need to rotate Wilkerson much he plays both run and pass well.

 

I like the front 4 better because it gives the players a chance to work the OL with moves during a game and make it more of a chess match than just beating them with brut strength or speed which is not easy to do.

Edited by Smashmouth

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I think Shane's point is that its more than fair to question Rex's logic with this Coples move. His track record in developing defensive talent as the Jets Head Coach is nothing more than average.

 

And seriously, how many scouts made write ups on Coples being a potential 3-4 OLB? It is not his skillset. The idea of Coples covering a TE is laughable.

 

It may or may not work. But the point here is that its fair to question Rex.

You can question him all you want, but ranting about it in May before you've even read one little snippet from the Jet hating press about what Coples looks like and/or what his job is as an OLB is a wee bit premature, IMHO. The man is trying to figure out the best way to get Wilkerson, Richardson, and Coples all on the field at the same - while also improving the pass rush. A noble endeavor. As long as he's not asking Coples to change his body (a la Herm and Ellis), I'm pretty content to let Rex tinker.

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Big, big difference between Rex and Herm and you know it. Herm is a clown on TV now, because that's the best job he can get - ever. He will never coach football again. He'll never be spoken about as a potential football coach. Ditto Mangini, who was maybe qualified to be a quality assistant coach when Belichick promoted him to DC.

Rex, OTOH, will -at a bare minimum- be a defensive coordinator in the NFL for as long as he wants to be one. And he'll be very good at it, too.

That said, I have to hand it to you. You're playing this like the skilled political operative you are; attacking Rex's strengths. You'll get the polls swinging in your favor in no time. Sperm's just throwing facts around. No one pays any attention to facts. Vitriol, that's what wins these debates. :)

 

 

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You can question him all you want, but ranting about it in May before you've even read one little snippet from the Jet hating press about what Coples looks like and/or what his job is as an OLB is a wee bit premature, IMHO. The man is trying to figure out the best way to get Wilkerson, Richardson, and Coples all on the field at the same - while also improving the pass rush. A noble endeavor. As long as he's not asking Coples to change his body (a la Herm and Ellis), I'm pretty content to let Rex tinker.

 

Not giving fat Boy a pass on this ....hes drafted 4 DT types in the past 3 drafts and now all of a sudden its OMG how am I going to use em ??? Ill tell ya what every great 3-4 defense is based around great LBS and the elite ones have some DL as well ....Ravens and 85 bears come to mind with great DL men in addition to great LB's ....Rex has chosen to ignore the LB position and when we did Draft a LB we drafted a 230 pound LB who really does not fit the scheme of a 3-4 defense since ILB in the 3-4 MUST take on guards regularly. Say all you want about Rex's genius and his eye on talent but they guy is NOT making logical decisions. Everyone uses the excuse (which is very easy to do) by saying Rex is unconventional and thats fine but there comes a point where that does not cut it.

 

In todays NFL where teams are starting to attack the middle of the field with TE's you better have a freakin LB with speed and a long wing span to cover those TE's currently we have NONE. Harris is a traditional ILB in the 3-4 and he excells vs the run everyone else on this LB squad is either a career back up or a washed up Calvin Pace. yet drafting 4 freakin DT with the top picks in the last 3 drafts makes sense ?

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You'll forgive me if I'm not convinced that Rex turned Revis or Ngata into great players, or that Will Demps, Dawan Landry, and a bunch of jags like Marques Douglass are proof of Rex's coaching greatness. (Antonio Allen and Kenrick Ellis?) He did take Devito, Pouha, Gregg, and Kemoeatu and turned them into stout run defenders, which goes on the résumé, for sure, but that shows that he knows how to get gritty guys to...be gritty defensive tackles? The Ravens won the Super Bowl last year with their 3rd and 4th corners starting, and with draftees like Paul Kruger, Courtney Upshaw, and Dannel Ellerbe playing major roles. Maybe Baltimore just produces better mid- to late-round talent than anyone else, and that Rex had very little to do with it?

Again, Rex is a fine defensive coach with a fine defensive system, and I'm not disparaging his ability there. He's just wildly overrated as far as gurus go.

 

Much of the reason for your criticism is that you blindly assume great players would have been just as great if they'd only had mediocre coaching.  If Coples had been moved to LB and worked out there, while in Baltimore, it seems you'd say well duh that Coples was a stud there and Rex had little to do with it. 

 

So what would convince you? It seems there is no convincing you, since there have been high drafted players, mid-drafted players, and undrafted players all pan out big-time while he was coaching them.

 

I tend think the opposite of what you do as his defensive coaching goes.  I think he's better at teaching than he is at developing strategy.  I've seen enough clips of him going over technique with a myriad of players, getting very detailed about it, and those are just little snippets in front of the camera.  

 

Conversely, if his strength was strategy it is my opinion that he wouldn't be such a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball and would instantly shoo away terrible offensive gameplans that he'd find so easy to defend if he were the opponent.  That isn't the case, though.  Our offensive gameplans - as well as who we hand the car keys to on offense, plus development of offensive talent - haven't been too marvelous.  

 

Though people only seem to point to Rex's personality, this is probably at least as much of the reason Rex was passed over in Baltimore.  Ozzie isn't just a GM; he's an ex-player and an ex-offensive-player.

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Not giving fat Boy a pass on this ....hes drafted 4 DT types in the past 3 drafts and now all of a sudden its OMG how am I going to use em ???

I don't entirely buy into the premise that Rex was behind the drafts when Tannenbaum was here, and I definitely don't believe he had much -if any- input into this year's draft. The new GM gave him the gift of an athletic DT, and now it's Rex's job to get the most out of the talent he has available to him.

I'd expect the Coples to OLB experiment to be pretty limited in scope, and that if it's not paying dividends early, it'll likely be scrapped. When the season rolls around, I expect Coples to have his hand in the AstroTurf more often than not.

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Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since.  Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all do you really think Rex had a say with the Ravens ? That team was full of hall of famers when Rex moved into his positions as DL/DC . Ozzie made those picks not Rex. Theres a reason the Ravens did not make Rex the HC and brougt in John Harbaugh. because harbaugh has a brain and knows how to MANAGE a fiitball team Rex has no clue. So while he may be a good DC and DL coach he lacks the Brains for what we need him for and thats to be the head coach of the WHOLE football team, not half of it or one thrid of it.

 

When it comes to Cromartie saying he tackles now is laughable. Ive seen him make a few hits last year on players in compromising positions in relation to him but if a RB is heading towards Cro with a full head of steam dont expect much at all. He will either crumble or avoid the contact any way he can. A few hits does not make a tackler ... Revis was a tackler, Cro will never be one . You also listed Cromartie as being here when Rex arrived and he was not.

 

Rex came to the Jets and we had Above average talent here. He also brought Leonhard, Douglas and Scott to help on every tier of the defense. Every year the defense has started to drop off and they have never stepped up in a big moment. They put up the stats but many times can't shut games down or get off the field on 3rd down. They are certainly NOT the Ravens by any stretch not even close.

 

You bring up the draft picks and say that the Jets have only drafted 2 defensive players per the last few years but those picks happen to be 4 defensive lineman in rounds 1 and 2 the past 4 years while impact skill players go undrafted on this team until the 4th + rounds. Only one that comes to mind is Stephen Hill in round 2 last year. Im certain Rex has little input on offensive moves since the Idiot constantly proclaims his ignorance on that side of the ball. The only good skill player added to this team in yearrrrrs is Jeremy Kerley and hes a nice player but hes not turning the league upside down either. 

 

Most teams that make it to, or have the talent to compete in the AFCCG should never drop off as fast as we did. After years 1 and 2 this team was a few skill players away from getting to a SB .... Who did we bring in ?

 

Year 2 -- Santonio Holmes - Pitt thought so much of him they basically dumped him for a 5th rounder --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Plaxico Burress - Fresh out of jail and 34 years old -- Jets do not re sign nor does anyone else --- Known Loudmouth 

Year 3 -- Derrick Mason - Loud mouth trouble maker 38 years old who Rex claimed would have 90 receptions yet he was released in week 4 --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Did not Sign Braylon Edwards --- Who was certainly trouble off the field but did have a good on the field relationship with our young QB. Certainly was not shooting himself in the leg at a night club. 

 

Lets use the Ravens as an example ...this team has been close for many years. They know they have a good defense so they set their sights on improving the offense and the skill players on that side of the ball. They actully tried until they hit it and won the SB the key to that SB and probably the most important move was bringing in Anquan Boldin who played lights out in the playoffs and they won it all. Boldin is a damn good WR and a good lockerroom guy ... The Ravens also did a great job handling Joe Flacco getting him Ray Rice and other Skill players on offense to help his growth as a QB.

 

The Jets in a similar situation with a very good defense and a few offensive players away from truly contending for a SB bring in IDIOTS and HAS BEENS and expect the same results and Its been laughable for the past 4 years and everyone seems to get this. Its the real reason we have the clown label.

 

Bottom Line --- The Ravens did it right ....The Jets did it wrong under Rex Ryans so called watch. They continue to do it wrong.

 

This team needs LB's and Safeties to which are the biggest holes on our defense so Rex Drafts yet another DT in this years draft ??????????? Dumps Revis (understandable to some extent) and Signs a rookie with Imnjury Problems and 5 surgeries in the past 3 years ???????  Im OK with Geno Smith and I hope he can really make a difference but who the **** is he throwing the ball too ? Certainly its about time we got some explosive RB's but neither one has shown the durability to make us rest easy .

 

I think Idzik stayed true to his board so I wont push to hard aganist the Richardson pick and he deserves the benifit of the doubt at least until year 3. But Im concerned about how our defense is being built and how our offense has been neglected, are we oncourse to ruin another QB ?

 

Yes, I do think he had say with the Ravens.  Otherwise they would have cut bait with him instead of promoting him to DC.  It is silly to think they thought lowly of him as a defensive coach with the "proof" being that they didn't make him their HC.  He was their DL for half a decade, and after that time they decided to promote him to a position he'd still hold there if the Jets (or someone else) hadn't hired him as HC.

 

Dumping Revis was more than understandable "to some extent" since there was exactly 1 NFL team willing to pass up on a 1st rounder + a 3rd rounder + 16M/year in cap room for the privilege of Revis on their teams.  Cromartie isn't a run-stopping beast, but he tackles a fuckload more now than he did before Rex got a hold of him.  Or do you think that is coincidence?

 

Rex is not the GM.  Idzik is.  While I'm sure Rex has some input, the decision is clearly Idzik's alone.  There is no way Rex would be ok with letting Moore & Slauson hit free agency (Moore in particular), and then sign 2 other veterans while using three consecutive draft picks on the OL.  There is no way on God's green earth that this is Rex's doing.  I believe that Milliner and Richardson were the 2 highest players on his board and that's why Idzik took them.  It had little to do with Rex pulling the strings.  Rex has also been in love with Sanchez to the point where he got that ridiculous tattoo on his arm.  So I don't think Rex wanted Geno Smith either.

 

The man behind the man is not Rex Ryan.  The guy is at least 50/50 to get fired at the end of the year so it is not believable that Idzik - in his first stint as a GM and handed a pretty crappy scenario - gave Rex control over his two highest draft selections and took the later ones for himself.  That is lazy thinking just because you saw a CB and a DT get drafted.

 

Rex has shortcomings, but quite famously he got ONE draft pick per year with Tannenbaum and as a dead man walking I doubt very much he got any with Idzik.  You are blaming Rex for his GM's moves.  That GM has been fired.

 

I find it amusing that you have no tolerance for a head coach who, at least on the defensive side of the ball, is thought of well throughout the league.  Yet you have endless tolerance for Mark Sanchez who the whole league and the whole country knows is a joke who can barely throw a football straight.

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"Ryan voiced his displeasure with 2012 first-round pick Coples, who Ryan said at the end of last season would be one of the team's breakout players in 2013. Apparently Ryan wants to see more commitment to conditioning from the massive defensive lineman after observing him Thursday."

 

We're getting into full swing Jet-mode early.  Nothing like an oversized, out of shape fat guy at OLB. 

Edited by Il Mostro

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Yes, I do think he had say with the Ravens.  Otherwise they would have cut bait with him instead of promoting him to DC.  It is silly to think they thought lowly of him as a defensive coach with the "proof" being that they didn't make him their HC.  He was their DL for half a decade, and after that time they decided to promote him to a position he'd still hold there if the Jets (or someone else) hadn't hired him as HC.

 

Dumping Revis was more than understandable "to some extent" since there was exactly 1 NFL team willing to pass up on a 1st rounder + a 3rd rounder + 16M/year in cap room for the privilege of Revis on their teams.  Cromartie isn't a run-stopping beast, but he tackles a fuckload more now than he did before Rex got a hold of him.  Or do you think that is coincidence?

 

Rex is not the GM.  Idzik is.  While I'm sure Rex has some input, the decision is clearly Idzik's alone.  There is no way Rex would be ok with letting Moore & Slauson hit free agency (Moore in particular), and then sign 2 other veterans while using three consecutive draft picks on the OL.  There is no way on God's green earth that this is Rex's doing.  I believe that Milliner and Richardson were the 2 highest players on his board and that's why Idzik took them.  It had little to do with Rex pulling the strings.  Rex has also been in love with Sanchez to the point where he got that ridiculous tattoo on his arm.  So I don't think Rex wanted Geno Smith either.

 

The man behind the man is not Rex Ryan.  The guy is at least 50/50 to get fired at the end of the year so it is not believable that Idzik - in his first stint as a GM and handed a pretty crappy scenario - gave Rex control over his two highest draft selections and took the later ones for himself.  That is lazy thinking just because you saw a CB and a DT get drafted.

 

Rex has shortcomings, but quite famously he got ONE draft pick per year with Tannenbaum and as a dead man walking I doubt very much he got any with Idzik.  You are blaming Rex for his GM's moves.  That GM has been fired.

 

I find it amusing that you have no tolerance for a head coach who, at least on the defensive side of the ball, is thought of well throughout the league.  Yet you have endless tolerance for Mark Sanchez who the whole league and the whole country knows is a joke who can barely throw a football straight.

 

Sperm I pretty much agree with all you have said here it basically is the same thing I said. On the case of what power Rex has via the draft or personnell decisions Im pretty sure thats a big gray area that we will never know the true answer to.

 

In the case of Idzik Im not sure on a team with 4 possible starting DT's he would draft another without a big input from Rex. Also on Rex;s one draft pick he grabbed the incredible John Conner I find it hard to believe that was his only input in that draft . Teams stick to their draft board to an extent, you cant make early picks in the top 15 in an area thats already strong and neglect areas of need, at some point you have to deviate from your board and I think at pick 13 the Jets could have went in numerous directions of need instead of grabbing yet another DT.

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Sperm I pretty much agree with all you have said here it basically is the same thing I said. On the case of what power Rex has via the draft or personnell decisions Im pretty sure thats a big gray area that we will never know the true answer to.

 

In the case of Idzik Im not sure on a team with 4 possible starting DT's he would draft another without a big input from Rex. Also on Rex;s one draft pick he grabbed the incredible John Conner I find it hard to believe that was his only input in that draft . Teams stick to their draft board to an extent, you cant make early picks in the top 15 in an area thats already strong and neglect areas of need, at some point you have to deviate from your board and I think at pick 13 the Jets could have went in numerous directions of need instead of grabbing yet another DT.

 

I guarantee Rex has some input into who he likes just as 31 other head coaches have input with their GMs.

 

Idzik said he was going purely on who he had rated highest on his board regardless of position.  He said it over and over.  If anything, selecting Richardson should convince you of just that. 

 

Instead you (and many others, just to show I'm not only pointing fingers your way) have come up with the theory that this lame duck HC, coming off a garbage season, who has mountains of bad and embarrassing press coverage, is the power behind the throne of a GM who has finally gotten his chance.

 

When we made the pick, absolutely my initial reaction was also WTF do we need 4 DT's for (3 of them drafted in round 1, another drafted in round 3, all taken in the past 3 drafts)? Well we'll see.  Clearly it can work out to have Richardson and Ellis at DT with Wilkerson and Coples at end.  My guess is, as others have written, we're going to see a lot of just that.  Coples will have a hand in the dirt sometimes and stand upright sometimes. The latter will allow the pass rush to come from the other OLB spot now & then to mix things up and make things more difficult for the offense to plan against. Or I think that's the idea anyway.  But I doubt Coples is going to be a typical OLB.  He was drafted to rush the passer, and rush the passer he will.  Rex just wants the opportunity to have him do it in multiple ways.  When BB tries to make players more versatile he's called a genius; if Rex tries it he's a moron.

This will work out or it won't. 

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I guarantee Rex has some input into who he likes just as 31 other head coaches have input with their GMs.

 

Idzik said he was going purely on who he had rated highest on his board regardless of position.  He said it over and over.  If anything, selecting Richardson should convince you of just that. 

 

Instead you (and many others, just to show I'm not only pointing fingers your way) have come up with the theory that this lame duck HC, coming off a garbage season, who has mountains of bad and embarrassing press coverage, is the power behind the throne of a GM who has finally gotten his chance.

 

When we made the pick, absolutely my initial reaction was also WTF do we need 4 DT's for (3 of them drafted in round 1, another drafted in round 3, all taken in the past 3 drafts)? Well we'll see.  Clearly it can work out to have Richardson and Ellis at DT with Wilkerson and Coples at end.  My guess is, as others have written, we're going to see a lot of just that.  Coples will have a hand in the dirt sometimes and stand upright sometimes. The latter will allow the pass rush to come from the other OLB spot now & then to mix things up and make things more difficult for the offense to plan against. Or I think that's the idea anyway.  But I doubt Coples is going to be a typical OLB.  He was drafted to rush the passer, and rush the passer he will.  Rex just wants the opportunity to have him do it in multiple ways.  When BB tries to make players more versatile he's called a genius; if Rex tries it he's a moron.

This will work out or it won't. 

 

Only problem I have with Coples and Wilk playing DE in a traditional 4-3 is do they have the quickness to excel on the the outside ? Coples didnt have it in college since he did much better at DT than he did at DE and Wilkerson is already 315. IMO Offensive tackles would welcome the slower bigger guy they can easily push to the outside. What beats most good Offensive tackles is speed not strength and Im not sure either guy has the speed to be a consistent pass rusher on the outside. Now a LB with speed can open up a lot of things but we dont have one. The one we do have weighs 230 and plays on the inside. Its a weird situation and While I know Idzik said he was sticking to his board at some point with early first round picks you have to deviate a bit.

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When you know your offense will be anorexic ginger living in Alaska anemic you have to get creative and all experimental and sh*t on defense. Rex will make the defense sizzle this year.  

 

Oh Crush, you paint such a word-picture.

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Much of the reason for your criticism is that you blindly assume great players would have been just as great if they'd only had mediocre coaching.

If this is in reference to Revis and Ngata, I am blindly presuming that they would be great players with or without Rex because they're both elite physical specimens who had a desire to be great players. Great players emerge under null coaches all the time. Arizona produced Darnell Dockett and Pat Peterson. The Jaguars produced MJD. The Chargers produced a bunch of great players under the Schottenheimers and Norv Turners of the world. I just can't buy that it was Rex's presence that caused Revis and Ngata. Rex likes to mention how he resurrected Terrell Suggs' career. Terrell Suggs had 12 sacks as a rookie with a pick and five forced fumbles. But Rex saved him?

If Coples had been moved to LB and worked out there, while in Baltimore, it seems you'd say well duh that Coples was a stud there and Rex had little to do with it.

I don't think that's the position I've been presenting, but who knows? I'm not all there. I reference Baltimore because they annually develop defensive talent with and without Rex, and that Rex's record of doing that with the Jets hasn't been nearly as impressive. He got a lot out of Pouha, and Wilkerson looks like he'll be really good. If Coples moves to OLB this year and gets 10 sacks, I'll scream from the rooftops about what a great move it was by Rex. As of today, it seems dodgy to mess around with an obviously talented player who has a reputation for not working. Why not just go get a real OLB and let Coples come off the bench at DE and DT? Especially if we start hearing about Coples being asked to get down to 265 or some such, it just seems like an unnecessary exercise.

So what would convince you? It seems there is no convincing you, since there have been high drafted players, mid-drafted players, and undrafted players all pan out big-time while he was coaching them.

My entire point of contention is that Rex's record with player development, especially as it relates to the Jets, doesn't lend itself to irreproachable status. This whole thing began with posters giving Rex the "benefit of the doubt, etc etc." I disagreed.

As far as what would be cool to see from the Rex regime, I'd love to see Demario Davis turn out to be a ten-year starter here. It'd be neat if Coples turned into a double-digit sacker at OLB. If Kyle Wilson doesn't have to finger-wag at players who beat him down the sidelines by five yards. If Kenrick Ellis becomes Pouha. If Bush turns into a non-liability on the back end. When a few oif these things happen, I'll revisit my perspective on Rex's record. As of right now, though, that record isn't worthy of this Rex mythos that seems to surround him amongst some Jets fans.

I tend think the opposite of what you do as his defensive coaching goes. I think he's better at teaching than he is at developing strategy. I've seen enough clips of him going over technique with a myriad of players, getting very detailed about it, and those are just little snippets in front of the camera.

Conversely, if his strength was strategy it is my opinion that he wouldn't be such a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball and would instantly shoo away terrible offensive gameplans that he'd find so easy to defend if he were the opponent. That isn't the case, though. Our offensive gameplans - as well as who we hand the car keys to on offense, plus development of offensive talent - haven't been too marvelous.

Though people only seem to point to Rex's personality, this is probably at least as much of the reason Rex was passed over in Baltimore. Ozzie isn't just a GM; he's an ex-player and an ex-offensive-player.

This is a really interesting take, and a good one. The only thing I'd offer is that Rex's defenses are consistently better than the sum of their parts, which I attribute to scheme as opposed to individual player contribution. Hell, they lost Revis from the defense and it still performed, with a stiff replacing him, which I also attributed to scheme. Of course, when the scheme/gameplan gets figured out, you get 94-yard Tebow drives and 40 point beatdowns at the hands of the Pats.

Edited by T0mShane

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If this is in reference to Revis and Ngata, I am blindly presupposing that they would be great players with or without Rex because they're both elite physical specimens who had a desire to be great players. Great players emerge under null coaches all the time. Arizona produced Darnell Dockett and Pat Peterson. The Jaguars produced MJD. The Chargers produced a bunch of great players under the Schottenheimers and Norv Turners of the world. I just can't buy that it was Rex's presence that caused Revis and Ngata. Rex likes to mention how he resurrected Terrell Suggs' career. Terrell Suggs had 12 sacks as a rookie with a pick and five forced fumbles. But Rex saved him?

I don't think that's the position I've been presenting, but who knows? I'm not all there. I reference Baltimore because they annually develop defensive talent with and without Rex, and that Rex's record of doing that with the Jets hasn't been nearly as impressive. He got a lot out of Pouha and Wilkerson looks like he'll be really good. If Coples moves to OLB this year and gets 10 sacks, I'll scream from the rooftops about what a great move it was by Rex. As of today, it seems dodgy to mess around with an obviously talented player who has a reputation for not working. Why not just go get a real OLB and let Coples come off the bench at DE and DT? Especially if we start hearing about Coples being asked to get down to 265 or some such, it just seems like an unnecessary exercise.

My entire point if contention is that Rex's record with player development, especially as it relates to the Jets, doesn't lend itself to irreproachable status. This whole thing began with posters giving Rex the "benefit of the doubt, etc etc." I disagreed.

As far as what would be cool to see from the Rex regime, I'd love to see Demario Davis turn out to be a ten-year starter here. It'd be neat if Coples turned into a double-digit sacker at OLB. If Kyle Wilson doesn't have to finger-wag at players who beat him down the sidelines by five yards. If Kenrick Ellis becomes Pouha. If Bush turns into a non-liability on the back end. When a few oif these things happen, I'll revisit my perspective on Rex's record. As of right now, though, that record isn't worthy of this Rex mythos that seems to surround him amongst some Jets fans.

This is a really interesting take, and a good one. The only thing is contest is that Rex's defenses are consistently better than the sum of their parts, which I attribute to scheme as opposed to individual player contribution. Hell, they lost Revis from the defense and it still performed with a stiff replacing him, which I also attributed to scheme. Of course, when the scheme/gameplay gets figured out, you get 94 yard Tebow drives and 40 point beatdowns at the hands of the Pats.

 

I never said Rex caused it.  Only that it is convenient to ignore his being there and assume their performance would have been equal without it.

 

You're looking at people who have panned out in hindsight and if they turned out good you say they would have anyway.  If Coples was an instant 10-sack guy you'd have said the same thing.  Would Bart Scott have been a pro bowler in Rex's absence? Adalius Thomas? The others I pointed to that maybe didn't make it because they play lower-profile type play on the DL (Gregg, Kemoeatu, Wilkerson).  Even that one year Cromartie got 10 picks he was never a shutdown-type corner before.  Never.  Now the guy's Revis-lite in coverage and - depending on his recovery - quite possibly even his better now.

 

What you're doing is trying to disprove a negative; that these successful people would have been equally successful but for the coach they all gush over and say only good things about (complete with words like "brilliant" and "genius").  I'm not saying they would have been garbage or busts - particularly guys like Ngata & Revis - but Rex got average & above-average production out of scrubs & players who would have othewise been afterthoughts that no one would have heard of.  And I'd wager if you asked any or all of them they'd all give Rex enormous credit for their success.

 

Rex has a lot of shortcomings, and there was more than one occasion last year when I wished we'd just fired him already.  But coaching up defensive players was never one of my complaints.

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