Mafia forum off season chat thread

[CTM]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

CTM just wants to be that "woke" Jets fan that defends the Patriots.  

eh close

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, CTM said:

It's a no lose position. Ultimately i don't care about either of them nor your opinions of them,  + I get to annoy you guys. win/win

 

You do annoy us and I get why its entertaining for you, but you're also wrong.  Not mutually exclusive.  

[Verbal]

49 minutes ago, Nolder said:

Just, on another subject which is much more interesting than Brady, do you ever wonder how older stars would fare today or how todays stars would fare in the past? The rules have changed a lot even just in the past few years. I think it's kind of unfair to compare todays GOATS to the pasts GOATS imho because they played in different eras.

 

I mean even without bringing rules into the discussion take the late Kobe Bryant as an example. He dominated for years because no one was really in the same league as him. He had very little actual competition for a long time. Compare this to Michael Jordan's era where there were a lot of great players and he was still the best. Would Kobe have done as well if he was around during MJ's time? I don't think so. So you can only really judge a player by their current rule set and their peers imo. The era in which you play matters a lot I think. Much more so than records which is what so many people obsess over.

I think you have that backwards.  I don't know how much of the NBA you watched from 1996 - 2017, but I'll say I watched it religiously the entire time.  And I was in middle school when MJ started his career.  MJ had to go against some amazing players, but the truly legendary ones were at the end of their careers when he was in his prime (Magic, Larry) - same situation with Michael himself against Kobe.

 

Players in this era are far more athletic than they were 10-20 years ago (or more).  They practically jump out of the gym now.  KD is a freak of nature.  Giannis literally has Freak in his nickname.  LeBron is probably not even human.  And Kobe had to play against all of these guys, many of them also in their prime while he was.

 

In short, they were both amazing athletes and top 5 basketball players of all time (in my book).  They overlapped a little in eras, but both played with and against amazing athletes and players.  You can't possible say Kobe didn't have the competition Michael had, that's absolutely ridiculous.

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You do annoy us and I get why its entertaining for you, but you're also wrong.  Not mutually exclusive.  

Brady = GOAT and will enter the HoF whether you jesticles like it or not

CTM 1

Homers 0

[Verbal]

^ the above all said, the physicality of the NBA was very different when MJ played, but Kobe played the same way - he emulated Michael.  Kobe in that era would have been just as good, and Michael in this one would also be just as good.  Handchecking is not allowed anymore - it was the normal in the 80s and 90s.  Kobe started his career in the 90s and had to learn how to play through that.  MJ never got to experience the "soft" NBA we have now - he'd destroy people now, just like he did then.  Same for Kobe - he'd be a top player in Michael's prime right next to him.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Verbal said:

I think you have that backwards.  I don't know how much of the NBA you watched from 1996 - 2017, but I'll say I watched it religiously the entire time.  And I was in middle school when MJ started his career.  MJ had to go against some amazing players, but the truly legendary ones were at the end of their careers when he was in his prime (Magic, Larry) - same situation with Michael himself against Kobe.

 

Players in this era are far more athletic than they were 10-20 years ago (or more).  They practically jump out of the gym now.  KD is a freak of nature.  Giannis literally has Freak in his nickname.  LeBron is probably not even human.  And Kobe had to play against all of these guys, many of them also in their prime while he was.

 

In short, they were both amazing athletes and top 5 basketball players of all time (in my book).  They overlapped a little in eras, but both played with and against amazing athletes and players.  You can't possible say Kobe didn't have the competition Michael had, that's absolutely ridiculous.

 

Yeah, the talent level has only gone up as the NBA has grown.  The '92 Dream Team helped usher in a huge influx of foreign talent that changed the way the game has played.

Where I agree with Nolder is that the game has gotten easier from a rules standpoint.  During the early part of Jordan's career, if you tried to attack the rim, you got punished.  A lot of the standard fouls/non-calls from the 90s would be Flagrant-1's today.  The game has gone more the route of the European style, where its more about finesse than physicality.  

That doesn't mean the game has gotten better or worse, really.  It depends on your perspective.  We never want the NBA to take on the "Malice at the Palace" levels of violence it had for a little while.  It's good for players to have a healthy respect for each other. 

But on the other side of the argument, there are no great rivalries anymore.  Teams don't "hate" each other, because the game is all about individuals rather than teams. It was never a thought or possibility in the 90s for a start player to leave the team that drafted him and go create a "super team" elsewhere.  Front offices had a lot more power then, and it was more about teams.  You can't replicate the Reggie Miller vs the Knicks/Spike Lee stuff of the 90s anymore.  Or the Celtics/Lakers sheer hatred of the 80s, the point where Boston fans were chanting "Beat LA!".....to the 76ers, who were about to eliminate them!

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

Brady = GOAT and will enter the HoF whether you jesticles like it or not

CTM 1

Homers 0

Calling him the GOAT and him going in the HOF doesn't make him the GOAT, any more than a President being in power makes me "in the wrong" for not having voted for him.  Not my choice for President, not my choice for GOAT.

Will you be there for his HOF induction?  Sounds like you'd like to be.  

[CTM]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Calling him the GOAT and him going in the HOF doesn't make him the GOAT, any more than a President being in power makes me "in the wrong" for not having voted for him.  

Will you be there for his HOF induction?

Maybe but he still your president, just like Brady will be regarded as the GOAT by most

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

Maybe but he still your president, just like Brady will be regarded as the GOAT by most

Just wait for the 30 for 30 documentary that comes out after Belichick/Brady retire.  Brady will be viewed as Lance Armstrong, minus the contributions to cancer research and society at large.

Public opinion doesn't matter much to me.  Nearly as many Americans vote on American Idol as vote in the presidential election, if not moreso.  Why do I care what the "majority" of football fans think, even if its true that they would vote him the GOAT?

[Verbal]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yeah, the talent level has only gone up as the NBA has grown.  The '92 Dream Team helped usher in a huge influx of foreign talent that changed the way the game has played.

Where I agree with Nolder is that the game has gotten easier from a rules standpoint.  During the early part of Jordan's career, if you tried to attack the rim, you got punished.  A lot of the standard fouls/non-calls from the 90s would be Flagrant-1's today.  The game has gone more the route of the European style, where its more about finesse than physicality.  

That doesn't mean the game has gotten better or worse, really.  It depends on your perspective.  We never want the NBA to take on the "Malice at the Palace" levels of violence it had for a little while.  It's good for players to have a healthy respect for each other. 

But on the other side of the argument, there are no great rivalries anymore.  Teams don't "hate" each other, because the game is all about individuals rather than teams. It was never a thought or possibility in the 90s for a start player to leave the team that drafted him and go create a "super team" elsewhere.  Front offices had a lot more power then, and it was more about teams.  You can't replicate the Reggie Miller vs the Knicks/Spike Lee stuff of the 90s anymore.  Or the Celtics/Lakers sheer hatred of the 80s, the point where Boston fans were chanting "Beat LA!".....to the 76ers, who were about to eliminate them!

Jordan's entire career was before handchecking and soft calls from referees - Kobe started in Jordan's game and then had to adjust to the "new" NBA.

 

They are both equally amazing and would flourish in either era.

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Public opinion doesn't matter much to me.  Nearly as many Americans vote on American Idol as vote in the presidential election, if not moreso.  That doesn't make them right to do so or give them an opinion worth paying attention to.  

So you are saying certain people shouldn't be allowed to vote? Women maybe? Very progressive. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Verbal said:

Jordan's entire career was before handchecking and soft calls from referees - Kobe started in Jordan's game and then had to adjust to the "new" NBA.

They are both equally amazing and would flourish in either era.

Agreed.  I'm not taking away from the greatness of either.  

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

So you are saying certain people shouldn't be allowed to vote? Women maybe? Very progressive. 

I'm saying I'd prefer people spend more time paying attention to what's going on than voting on American Idol. 

People who say they don't care about Politics bother me.  Because the people who make you pay way too much for your meds, mass produce unhealthy food and jack up insurance rates sure as hell care about politics.  

Just a little bit of time spent away from the bells and whistles and caring about some things that impact everybody would be nice.  We've become a lot like the Romans at the tail end of their rule.  

[CTM]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying I'd prefer people spend more time paying attention to what's going on than voting on American Idol. 

People who say they don't care about Politics bother me.  Because the people who make you pay way too much for your meds, mass produce unhealthy food and jack up insurance rates sure as hell care about politics.  

Just a little bit of time spent away from the bells and whistles and caring about some things that impact everybody would be nice.  We've become a lot like the Romans at the tail end of their rule.  

True. I think they are all terrible so I don't involve myself. I also don't vote or watch idol though.

I voted 2x in my life, once for Obama in 08 primary and would've voted for him against Palin but in NJ not needed. I also protest voted libertarian in 2016 because i couldn't believe the major parties produced trump and clinton as our options, two of the worst candidates imaginable. It's a lost cause imo and national politics is a cesspool of corruption and incompetence

 

[Verbal]

I wrote myself into the ballot and put in the margin:  "I have no idea what I'm doing, but I promise I'll suck less than these two idiots."

[Verbal]

I had a grand total of 1 vote.

 

Verbal2020

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, CTM said:

True. I think they are all terrible so I don't involve myself. I also don't vote or watch idol though.

I voted 2x in my life, once for Obama in 08 primary and would've voted for him against Palin but in NJ not needed. I also protest voted libertarian in 2016 because i couldn't believe the major parties produced trump and clinton as our options, two of the worst candidates imaginable. It's a lost cause imo and national politics is a cesspool of corruption and incompetence

 



 

 

It's not about the politicians themselves.  They're all awful.

It's the reading between the lines and trying to figure out whose pocket they're in.  Once you figure that out, you can determine the lesser of 2 (or more) evils.  And when people do get in power, trying to hold them accountable.

Some day the Supreme Court needs to overturn the decision to consider corporate entities the same thing as an individual and instead set a cap on the amount they can contribute to a campaign.  

[CTM]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

It's not about the politicians themselves.  They're all awful.

It's the reading between the lines and trying to figure out whose pocket they're in.  Once you figure that out, you can determine the lesser of 2 (or more) evils.  And when people do get in power, trying to hold them accountable.

Some day the Supreme Court needs to overturn the decision to consider corporate entities the same thing as an individual and instead set a cap on the amount they can contribute to a campaign.  

Let me guess Bernie Bro? 

That guy will be a disaster imo

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, CTM said:

Let me guess Bernie Bro? 

That guy will be a disaster imo

Hell no.  

[Jetsfan80]

Personally I liked Cory Booker, the NJ Senator.  But of course none of the people I can ever get behind are ever listened to or given a modicum of power.  Maybe 2024 for him.  

[CTM]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Personally I liked Cory Booker, the NJ Senator.  But of course none of the people I can ever get behind are ever listened to or given a modicum of power.  

We have probably went too far on this topic as some cant discuss civilly ...

Lets go back to you accepting Brady as the greatest 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, CTM said:

We have probably went too far on this topic as some cant discuss civilly ...

Lets go back to you accepting Brady as the greatest 

 

Most here would be far less civil discussing that.  lol.  

[Spoot-Face]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying I'd prefer people spend more time paying attention to what's going on than voting on American Idol. 

People who say they don't care about Politics bother me.  Because the people who make you pay way too much for your meds, mass produce unhealthy food and jack up insurance rates sure as hell care about politics.  

Just a little bit of time spent away from the bells and whistles and caring about some things that impact everybody would be nice.  We've become a lot like the Romans at the tail end of their rule.  

I don't care about politics.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I don't care about politics.

You will when they start trying to take over the Dams.  

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You will when they start trying to take over the Dams.  

Over @CTM's dead body! (I hope)

[Nolder]

I don't really think Kobe had much competition in the first half of his career.

I admit I never followed NBA very closely though.

[CTM]

38 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Over @CTM's dead body! (I hope)

that's not nice

[Verbal]

6 minutes ago, Nolder said:

I don't really think Kobe had much competition in the first half of his career.

I admit I never followed NBA very closely though.

So then you really can't say that first statement.  Taking a random sample of the league leaders in the first half of Kobe's career, here's a quick snapshot:

 

Allen Iverson

Shaq

Vince Carter

Tracy McGrady

Karl Malone

Gary Payton

Kevin Garnett

Reggie Miller

Jason Kidd

Steve Nash

Dwayne Wade

LeBron James

 

Each of those players is either a current or future Hall of Famer, or damn close to it.

[Spoot-Face]

11 minutes ago, CTM said:

that's not nice 

no, but it's funny

[Nolder]

I can say it. I just can't say it with much authority lol.

 

I admit I could be wrong it's just the impression I always got whenever I did pay attention to NBA the past 20 years or so.

[GATA]

5 hours ago, CTM said:

True. I think they are all terrible so I don't involve myself. I also don't vote or watch idol though.

I voted 2x in my life, once for Obama in 08 primary and would've voted for him against Palin but in NJ not needed. I also protest voted libertarian in 2016 because i couldn't believe the major parties produced trump and clinton as our options, two of the worst candidates imaginable. It's a lost cause imo and national politics is a cesspool of corruption and incompetence

 

Camacho my cousin

[Nolder]

.

[Nolder]

Check out this Shirt

 

@The Crusher @Jetsfan80

[The Crusher]

On 2/6/2020 at 2:50 PM, CTM said:

True. I think they are all terrible so I don't involve myself. I also don't vote or watch idol though.

I voted 2x in my life, once for Obama in 08 primary and would've voted for him against Palin but in NJ not needed. I also protest voted libertarian in 2016 because i couldn't believe the major parties produced trump and clinton as our options, two of the worst candidates imaginable. It's a lost cause imo and national politics is a cesspool of corruption and incompetence

 

It would be so fitting if you got this thread locked 

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, Nolder said:

Check out this Shirt

 

@The Crusher @Jetsfan80

 

What is this I don't even...