Shadetree Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Nah...I think the Bears are an easy #1 Ravens would be next, IMO. i don't think Denver will be remembered as an all-time great one, but if Vonn Miller keeps this up, he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 11 hours ago, nyjunc said: they were outstanding and carried Denver to a SB but how many all time great Ds are 4th in points allowed? and it wasn't like the played in a tough division. Den '15: 4th in PA, 1st in YA Bal '00: 1st in PA, 2nd in YA Chi '85: 1st in PA, 1st in YA TB '02: 1st in PA, 1st in YA Outstanding job by Denver this year, they absolutely carried that team to a title but I didn't see greatest D of all time or a D even in that discussion. QB's the 2000 Ravens faced: Scott Mitchell, Mark Brunell, Jay Fiedler, Kent Graham, Akili Smith, Jamie Martin(who?)Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Brad Johnson, Mcnair, washed up Aikman, Doug Pederson, Jake Plummer, Gus Ferrotte, Gannon, Kerry Collins If Denver had the benefit of playing that schedule they'd have the #1 scoring D as well. In terms of ranking defenses you have to adjust for schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 This Broncos D and 86 Giants are actually sorta similar in that the two stars are the OLBs, then there's that underrated badass in Wolfe i.e. Marshall. Though Broncos have the better secondary and Giants had a more complete front 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 It's never been harder to shut down passing offenses. Yet that's exactly what Denver did down the stretch. They also carried an awful Brock Osweiler through the middle part of the season without losing TOO much ground. I think they had an extraordinary season. Have to rank them somewhere in the top 5-8 range. Nearly every team in the league would pine to have have a great DC like Wade Phillips OR just one great pass-rusher like Miller/Ware OR a terrific secondary. Denver had all of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 14 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said: You wouldn't put the '86 Giants in their category? I'd take the '86 Giants D over the Tampa D. The Bears and Ravens were probably the 2 best I've seen in my life though (I only vaguely remember the late 70's Steelers). The 1986 Giant D was great and had the best defensive player in the history of the sport but I wouldn't put them up there with the others I mentioned. I think Tampa gets really underrated. 12 hours ago, Matt39 said: QB's the 2000 Ravens faced: Scott Mitchell, Mark Brunell, Jay Fiedler, Kent Graham, Akili Smith, Jamie Martin(who?)Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Brad Johnson, Mcnair, washed up Aikman, Doug Pederson, Jake Plummer, Gus Ferrotte, Gannon, Kerry Collins If Denver had the benefit of playing that schedule they'd have the #1 scoring D as well. In terms of ranking defenses you have to adjust for schedule. who was the murderer's row Denver faced this year? they faced some names but Rivers stunk, they got torched at Pitt when they had Brown and slowed them down when brown was hurt, Brady obviously, Newton. Brunell was a really good QB, Brad Johnson was good, they faced McNair 3 times, Plummer wasn't bad, Gannon was really good. that list looks bad on the surface but it's not as bad you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: It's never been harder to shut down passing offenses. Yet that's exactly what Denver did down the stretch. They also carried an awful Brock Osweiler through the middle part of the season without losing TOO much ground. I think they had an extraordinary season. Have to rank them somewhere in the top 5-8 range. Nearly every team in the league would pine to have have a great DC like Wade Phillips OR just one great pass-rusher like Miller/Ware OR a terrific secondary. Denver had all of the above. Osweiler played better than Peyton Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 minute ago, nyjunc said: The 1986 Giant D was great and had the best defensive player in the history of the sport but I wouldn't put them up there with the others I mentioned. I think Tampa gets really underrated. who was the murderer's row Denver faced this year? they faced some names but Rivers stunk, they got torched at Pitt when they had Brown and slowed them down when brown was hurt, Brady obviously, Newton. Brunell was a really good QB, Brad Johnson was good, they faced McNair 3 times, Plummer wasn't bad, Gannon was really good. that list looks bad on the surface but it's not as bad you think. That list is atrocious compared to what Denver played against this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Matt39 said: That list is atrocious compared to what Denver played against this season. you are just looking at names though. the list is not bad at all when you dig a little deeper. The Den sched was not tough at all. they had a great run in postseason(though it was helped by Brown missing the Pitt game) but they weren't dominant enough in the reg season to be considered w/ those others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, nyjunc said: you are just looking at names though. the list is not bad at all when you dig a little deeper. The Den sched was not tough at all. they had a great run in postseason(though it was helped by Brown missing the Pitt game) but they weren't dominant enough in the reg season to be considered w/ those others If Denver had 2 games against Ryan Leaf, Jamie Martin, Henry Burris or Randy Fasani I'm pretty sure they'd be the #1 scoring defense. Ben, Brady, Rivers and Rodgers are all going to the Hall of Fame. The Ravens didnt face anyone near that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 2000 Baltimore: Opposing Os PPG(removing D/STs scores) vs. rest of league: 18.1 PPG Opposing Os PPG(removing D/STs scores) vs. Baltimore: 9.4 PPG 8.7 PPG difference 2015 Denver: Opposing Os PPG(removing D/STs scores) vs. rest of league: 23.5 PPG Opposing Os PPG(removing D/STs scores) vs. Denver: 16.7 PPG 6.8 difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 55 minutes ago, Matt39 said: If Denver had 2 games against Ryan Leaf, Jamie Martin, Henry Burris or Randy Fasani I'm pretty sure they'd be the #1 scoring defense. Ben, Brady, Rivers and Rodgers are all going to the Hall of Fame. The Ravens didnt face anyone near that. Ben lit them up, Brady led them to 20 pts, Rivers was terrible this year, Rodgers had a down year. great names but a little misleading. Bal didn't play 2 games against Leaf, they didn't face Jamie Martin(Brunell started both games), they didn't face Burris or Fasani(who didn't play in 2000). making up names doesn't help the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 minute ago, nyjunc said: Ben lit them up, Brady led them to 20 pts, Rivers was terrible this year, Rodgers had a down year. great names but a little misleading. Bal didn't play 2 games against Leaf, they didn't face Jamie Martin(Brunell started both games), they didn't face Burris or Fasani(who didn't play in 2000). making up names doesn't help the case. The 02 Bucs played against Fasani and Burris- just noting both of those defenses had tremendously easy schedules against terrible QB's. Martin played against the Ravens in 2000, forget if he started or not. The Ravens did have two games against Leaf and Couch. They also played against Akili Smith and Scott Mitchell. Just horrific players. Denver wasnt afforded that type of schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just now, Matt39 said: The 02 Bucs played against Fasani and Burris- just noting both of those defenses had tremendously easy schedules against terrible QB's. Martin played against the Ravens in 2000, forget if he started or not. The Ravens did have two games against Leaf and Couch. They also played against Akili Smith and Scott Mitchell. Just horrific players. Denver wasnt afforded that type of schedule. Denver played a very weak sched too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just now, nyjunc said: Denver played a very weak sched too. It was 10th overall. Not the toughest but certainly not terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just now, Matt39 said: It was 10th overall. Not the toughest but certainly not terrible. that looks good on paper but remember KC stunk early in the year when they played them, they faced Cincy's backup QB. those were 2 of the 4 tough teams they played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost_in_pads02 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I don't know why this question has to be asked every year, when a team's defense plays well. What ever happened to standing the test of time first.....so next year for instance, if the cardinals go to the SB, and they have a great defensive performance, are we all as fans going to pose this question again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said: I don't know why this question has to be asked every year, when a team's defense plays well. What ever happened to standing the test of time first.....so next year for instance, if the cardinals go to the SB, and they have a great defensive performance, are we all as fans going to pose this question again? That's deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost_in_pads02 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, HessStation said: That's deep. swallow a really sharp blade for me, ok. cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 hour ago, ghost_in_pads02 said: swallow a really sharp blade for me, ok. cool. Please excuse my buddy Hess Station. He is usually posting here driving 135 miles per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost_in_pads02 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, The Crusher said: Please excuse my buddy Hess Station. He is usually posting here driving 135 miles per hour. Ricky Bobby approves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 8 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said: I don't know why this question has to be asked every year, when a team's defense plays well. What ever happened to standing the test of time first.....so next year for instance, if the cardinals go to the SB, and they have a great defensive performance, are we all as fans going to pose this question again? It has to do w/ today's NFL. Look at the SB winners. Brady, Brees, Russell Wilson, Eli, Rodgers, Flacco, etc. Nowadays it's hard to win without a star QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost_in_pads02 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said: It has to do w/ today's NFL. Look at the SB winners. Brady, Brees, Russell Wilson, Eli, Rodgers, Flacco, etc. Nowadays it's hard to win without a star QB. I think its moreso, how you build your team. Especially on defense. Cause Rodgers, flacco n Brees have been years removed from winning a SB, their teams respectively having gotten worse. that great QB is a good thing, but if his supporting case isn't built right. Its not gonna matter who your QB is. Flacco n ELI are average QBs (a little bit above average )...the yr they won, yea they played out of thier minds but their supporting case was built strong enough to help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 A defense should be measured based on the effectiveness of stopping its opponents. The 1985 Bears were built to stop a 1985 offense, the 2000 Ravens were built to stop a 2000 offense, and the 2015 Broncos were built to stop a 2015 offense. How can you rank "all-time great" when the context is completely different? The league is heavily weighted toward the offense in this day and age. A dominating defense for the majority of a season is a tall task and a notable accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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