Better Band: Led Zepplin or The Who

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

I guess it depends on what you consider "good". Is it speed? Overall sound? Innovation? Chops? Not sure there is a right answer here which makes this argument pointless

Personally my top criteria is having a unique voice. I like guys that that you can tell it's them within a few notes because they don't sound like anyone else (this is over and beyond excessive familiarity, for instance, I think anyone whose heard even a little Jerry knows it's Jerry instantly) . I dismiss a lot of paint by numbers blues based wankers this way

My college roommate in my freshman year was a veteran of 40+ shows when we met.  Good number with his wealthy hippie parents.  Shows up with Boes 901 speakers and crates and crates of bootlegs that his Dad started making in early 70's and he continued.  By the time we graduated I went to +\- 25 shows.  I can close my eyes and still hear Jerry.  I pity anyone who never got to see (feel) them live.  

[munchmemory]

More ammo to support my claim (and not just me, but anyone who has followed r&r since the 60s) that Pete's rhythm playing was stellar and influences a legion of guitarists.

Here's a comment from "The Nuge":

PETE TOWNSHEND: "The ultimate rhythm guitarist. Every time he goes for a lead, I cringe, but every time he hits a chord, I refocus. He invented the power chords."

Townshend and Hendrix also shared mutual admiration.  I guess Hendix could gig as well as anybody, no?

"It’s impossible to ignore the mutual admiration between the two. Still, even after 11 Who albums, nearly as many solo releases, endless touring, and numerous literary works and humanitarian projects, it seems that in the eyes and ears of the guitar community, Mr. Townshend’s greatest legacy will always be that of rhythm king. Hell, he’s the best rhythm guitarist of all time, and that’s a great place to start for anyone with a hankering to play like Pete."

[CTM]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

More ammo to support my claim (and not just me, but anyone who has followed r&r since the 60s) that Pete's rhythm playing was stellar and influences a legion of guitarists.

Here's a comment from "The Nuge":

PETE TOWNSHEND: "The ultimate rhythm guitarist. Every time he goes for a lead, I cringe, but every time he hits a chord, I refocus. He invented the power chords."

Townshend and Hendrix also shared mutual admiration.  I guess Hendix could gig as well as anybody, no?

"It’s impossible to ignore the mutual admiration between the two. Still, even after 11 Who albums, nearly as many solo releases, endless touring, and numerous literary works and humanitarian projects, it seems that in the eyes and ears of the guitar community, Mr. Townshend’s greatest legacy will always be that of rhythm king. Hell, he’s the best rhythm guitarist of all time, and that’s a great place to start for anyone with a hankering to play like Pete."

I thought i heard the reverse in regards to Jimi and Townshend. That Townshend basically said he should quit and never play again after hearing Jimi play, in a rare moment of honest self evaluation

 

[The Crusher]

12 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Now Kleck will hunt down both of you guys.  IMO, Alex Lifeson is a great guitarist.

Any idol of the Trailor Park Boys is ok with Crushlove.

[slats]

2 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

More ammo to support my claim (and not just me, but anyone who has followed r&r since the 60s) that Pete's rhythm playing was stellar and influences a legion of guitarists.

Here's a comment from "The Nuge":

PETE TOWNSHEND: "The ultimate rhythm guitarist. Every time he goes for a lead, I cringe, but every time he hits a chord, I refocus. He invented the power chords."

Townshend and Hendrix also shared mutual admiration.  I guess Hendix could gig as well as anybody, no?

"It’s impossible to ignore the mutual admiration between the two. Still, even after 11 Who albums, nearly as many solo releases, endless touring, and numerous literary works and humanitarian projects, it seems that in the eyes and ears of the guitar community, Mr. Townshend’s greatest legacy will always be that of rhythm king. Hell, he’s the best rhythm guitarist of all time, and that’s a great place to start for anyone with a hankering to play like Pete."

You're really overselling this rhythm guitar stuff. Being the best rhythm guitarist of all time is tantamount to being the greatest backup QB of all time. He's an excellent team player, and is in a very real way way the glue that holds The Who together - but he's also arguably the least important piece of that band. 

[CTM]

there just isn't a lot of good memes for trolling Pete Townshend fan boys seemingly on the verge of a meltdown.

you get a pass today

I mean searching Pete Townshend sucks returns nothing. Internet, you have failed me

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, slats said:

You're really overselling this rhythm guitar stuff. Being the best rhythm guitarist of all time is tantamount to being the greatest backup QB of all time. He's an excellent team player, and is in a very real way way the glue that holds The Who together - but he's also arguably the least important piece of that band. 

I actually think his vocals missing from the Who would shatter the identity of the band.  As much if not moreso than his guitar playing.  People underestimate the importance of backup vocals. Reason George is my second favorite Beatle behind John. 

[munchmemory]

9 minutes ago, slats said:

You're really overselling this rhythm guitar stuff. Being the best rhythm guitarist of all time is tantamount to being the greatest backup QB of all time. He's an excellent team player, and is in a very real way way the glue that holds The Who together - but he's also arguably the least important piece of that band. 

Just giving my opinion.  And sharing those of many rock icons who agree with my appraisal.

Last one from me.  From a pretty decent gigging musician, Bruce Springsteen. Think I've made my point.

As I grew older, the Who's music seemed to grow with me. The sexual frustration, the politics, identity. These things coursed through my veins with every concurring Who album. I always found myself there somewhere in their music. "The Seeker"; the seeker is the guy in "Born to Run." There'd be no "Down in jungle," ba da ba, "land," without Pete's slashing bloody attack on his instrument. Pete is the greatest rhythm guitarist of all time [cheers]. He plays such incredible rhythm and he showed you don't have to play any lead. It's an amazing thing to behold, really. Pete managed to take the dirty business of rock & roll and somehow make it spiritual and turn it into a quest.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/read-bruce-springsteens-funny-moving-tribute-to-pete-townshend-20150529#ixzz415nScAwq 
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

there just isn't a lot of good memes for trolling Pete Townshend fan boys seemingly on the verge of a meltdown.

you get a pass today

I mean searching Pete Townshend sucks returns nothing. Internet, you have failed me

Meh,,, Music is so subjective and based on life experience it ultimately becomes an argument about taste.  There is no accounting for taste. Mmmmmm,,, taste.

[JustInFudge]

17 hours ago, shevys said:

I love Zeppelin but they have so many bad songs in a limited catalog that I feel the exact opposite. Of course, I'm a huge Who fan and all things being equal I'd take The Who any day over Zep. Too many mindless stupid songs in their canon for me.

Zep had a limited catalog?   Interesting.  Feel like they've got a sh*t load of music out there. 

Interesting that we seem it completely opposite though.  Music is cool that way.  

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Meh,,, Music is so subjective and based on life experience it ultimately becomes an argument about taste.  There is no accounting for taste. Mmmmmm,,, taste.

Yes, outside of Rush sucking being unequivocal, music is completely subjective. I was just going to troll a bit

[slats]

9 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Just giving my opinion.  And sharing those of many rock icons who agree with my appraisal.

Well, you've quoted a number of artists who aren't exactly in my favorites category, so I have to say I remain unswayed.

[HessStation]

I voted Zeppelin. But Pete Townsend is one of the most underrated guitarist of his time. I don't consider Page (also awesome) that much better if at all. 

Neithers strong point were solos per se imo fwiw. Page was a riff master, probably the greatest of all time imo and Townsend had a truly unique style of power combined with these amazing fills. Love ain't for Keeping, comes to mind. Townsend's a guy you may not appreciate until you try and play his songs.  

[Klecko73isGod]

16 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yes, outside of Rush sucking being unequivocal, music is completely subjective. I was just going to troll a bit

These weak attempts to bait me are becoming quite comical. 

 

[HessStation]

speaking of fills was there anyone better than Keith Moon?

Bonham might be the better overall drummer but Moon gets more points from me on unique style and crazy fills. 

[HessStation]

Yeah, I think Zeppelin was the better band. They had better songs. But just pure talent it's really freaking close. Entwistle might be the x factor that puts The Who over the top. But Led Zeppelin is the greatest group of all time. Imo.

[southparkcpa]

6 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

These weak attempts to bait me are becoming quite comical. 

 

Rush is fantastic....

[CTM]

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Rush is fantastic....

repped for the reverse troll, well played 

[The Crusher]

28 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yes, outside of Rush sucking being unequivocal, music is completely subjective. I was just going to troll a bit

" Hello stride, I may be hitting you today."

[HessStation]

37 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I actually think his vocals missing from the Who would shatter the identity of the band.  As much if not moreso than his guitar playing.  People underestimate the importance of backup vocals. Reason George is my second favorite Beatle behind John. 

It's personally, slim pickings, but I actually consider George to have the best solo career of of the three main Beatles. 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

It's personally, slim pickings, but I actually consider George to have the best solo career of of the three main Beatles. 

Yoko, a lot like CTM, ruins everything.

[NJ]

Better guitar work in Led Zep with Page (not saying Townsend is a slouch - he sure ain't)

Was going to say better song composition edge to the Who with rock opera's but then there's Houses of The Holy.

Hard to give an edge to anyone over Keith Moon - but Bonham might.

Same thing with Plant vs. Daltrey - both masters.

Bass slight edge to JP Jones.

Zep by an RCH (Red _ _nt Hair) 

[HessStation]

I like Rush

[munchmemory]

1 hour ago, slats said:

You're really overselling this rhythm guitar stuff. Being the best rhythm guitarist of all time is tantamount to being the greatest backup QB of all time. He's an excellent team player, and is in a very real way way the glue that holds The Who together - but he's also arguably the least important piece of that band. 

I was doing some work and your comment kept coming into my mind.  IMO, to say that rhythm guitar is not important is to not fully understand what r&r embodies.  All you need to know is that one badass rhythm guitar player, Chuck Berry, actually created r&r.  His very recognizable iconic shuffle rhythm is what all r&r was, and continues to be, built upon.  Without a strong rhythm guitar foundation, the lead part is rendered useless.  As you would not hang in with the song waiting for the lead break.  

48 minutes ago, slats said:

Well, you've quoted a number of artists who aren't exactly in my favorites category, so I have to say I remain unswayed.

lol  No issue with me, Slats. I'm just giving my opinion and showing my biases.  WTF do I know anyway?

[Klecko73isGod]

56 minutes ago, CTM said:

repped for the reverse troll, well played 

You're a dumbass. southpark might be an even bigger Rush fan than me. 

Go spin around in a circle while trey tunes his guitar.

[slats]

22 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

I was doing some work and your comment kept coming into my mind.  IMO, to say that rhythm guitar is not important is to not fully understand what r&r embodies.  All you need to know is that one badass rhythm guitar player, Chuck Berry, actually created r&r.  His very recognizable iconic shuffle rhythm is what all r&r was, and continues to be, built upon.  Without a strong rhythm guitar foundation, the lead part is rendered useless.  As you would not hang in with the song waiting for the lead break.  

lol  No issue with me, Slats. I'm just giving my opinion and showing my biases.  WTF do I know anyway?

Not to even remotely suggest that I have any sort of expertise, but I play guitar, bass, and a little drums and keyboard. I am no lead guitarist, but I've pretended in a couple guitar/bass/drum acts. That's Pete's role, and I do appreciate it. But when I have the opportunity to work with a real lead guitarist, I much prefer to move over to the bass than stick with straight rhythm. More creative, and more important, IMHO. Much more integral to the Who's sound is Moon and Entwistle. They are all about the rhythm section. I'm not saying Townsend sucks when I say that he may be the least important member of the band, but if I were to put the members of the Who in order of importance, I'd put Pete last. Let's just say that has more to do with the strengths of the other three members of the group. 

[Klecko73isGod]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Not to even remotely suggest that I have any sort of expertise, but I play guitar, bass, and a little drums and keyboard. I am no lead guitarist, but I've pretended in a couple guitar/bass/drum acts. That's Pete's role, and I do appreciate it. But when I have the opportunity to work with a real lead guitarist, I much prefer to move over to the bass than stick with straight rhythm. More creative, and more important, IMHO. Much more integral to the Who's sound is Moon and Entwistle. They are all about the rhythm section. I'm not saying Townsend sucks when I say that he may be the least important member of the band, but if I were to put the members of the Who in order of importance, I'd put Pete last. Let's just say that has more to do with the strengths of the other three members of the group. 

Except for the fact that he wrote about 98% of their material, meaning he was the leader of the band and it's most important member. 

 

[slats]

1 minute ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Except for the fact that he wrote about 98% of their material, meaning he was the leader of the band and it's most important member. 

 

My first thought when I saw this thread was Zeppelin by a wide margin. I tempered that to simply Zeppelin being better because I do enjoy The Who. But their songwriting isn't the strength of the group, either. Not like Zeppelin. 

[Klecko73isGod]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

My first thought when I saw this thread was Zeppelin by a wide margin. I tempered that to simply Zeppelin being better because I do enjoy The Who. But their songwriting isn't the strength of the group, either. Not like Zeppelin. 

Really? Songwriting is not the strength of the band that made Tommy, Who's Next and Quadrophenia?

One might argue that it's their greatest strength.

[slats]

Just now, Klecko73isGod said:

Really? Songwriting is not the strength of the band that made Tommy, Who's Next and Quadrophenia?

One might argue that it's their greatest strength.

Maybe a Rush fan would. 

[CTM]

50 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

You're a dumbass. southpark might be an even bigger Rush fan than me. 

Go spin around in a circle while trey tunes his guitar.

ahh so it's a long con

[HessStation]

Fwiw, different perspective, I sorta grew up on the back of a Harley of a single father, Vietnam vet and it was always the Stones and the Who, never The Beatles or Zeppelin. I don't think it was ever intentional on behalf of my dad (he wasn't some huge music guy or anything) but I always remembered that and separated the bands in my mind. 

[HessStation]

Actually, although I consider Zeppelin the better band, I think they made better overall music, the writing should probably go to the Who. I've been listening to Quadrephenia...Plant never wrote anything as good as this. 

[slats]

Thru the beauty of Spotify, I've listened to a couple of these so-called amazing Who albums today. I may have to change my vote to Zeppelin by a wide margin.

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

Thru the beauty of Spotify, I've listened to a couple of these so-called amazing Who albums today. I may have to change my vote to Zeppelin by a wide margin.

Love Spotify! 

I haven't listened to classic rock in a while but this thread got me going. Per your vs. statement, I can understand the sentiment  in that, for me, Zeppelin didn't make a bad song, whereas the Who, for me it's 50/50. It's harder for me to find Who songs that I really like outside of Who's Next and Quadrephenia. It's usually one or two songs per album.