afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It blows my f'n mind how little that is understood here. We all know Schott will be blamed for sanchez's continued sukiness in 2012. He ruined him like he ruined brees Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 i agree with you in that respect EY I know full well Sanchez has not played well and needs to improve but I do think he has the talent to be much much better. I have had major issues with the jets coaching staff and talent for many years now and I stated when we drafted Sanchez this was an issue Im not sure I will ever be proven right or wrong but thats my stance. Suck is a bad word to use for one guy when this team obviously had a lot of issues last year and a lot of issues on offense does not always point at one guy Fair enough. I do agree that the offense needs more talent, but I firmly believe that the talent at WR that we do have is limited by the QB. It's why I always go back to the Santana Moss/Chad Pennington argument. To me, that's a first hand example of a QB who didn't make the most out of the talent around him. I've seen Sanchez succeed with talent around him, but that was at USC. Unfortunately, in the NFL, you don't find yourself in situations where your guys are just so much better than the other guys that you find wide open WRs often. In this league, you have to make quick decisions and fit the ball into tight windows. Sanchez has never shown he can do that. I just don't believe that better players will make Sanchez stare down his WRs less. I don't think they'll make him go through his progressions more quickly. I don't think they'll make him make smarter decisions. I don't think they'll make him throw behind his targets less. I don't think they'll make him hold onto the football any better. I agree that Holmes was a detriment this year, but I think he is a good player who's got a horrible attitude, and much like myself, is frustrated with and has no faith in the guy throwing him the ball. In sum, I think perhaps there would be more positive plays with the better talent you suggest, but I'm not sure that does anything to eliminate the negative ones. We've been in so many games where if the QB play was a 0, as opposed to a negative, we'd have won. Miami and Denver this season were prime examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 also wasnt sean payton kicked out of Gintville? and now he is Offensive genius in NO, Mccarthy suked in SF and now he is O guru in GB Funny how QB's make OC's look good or bad He's had six years, four QBs--two of whom were high draft picks he likely hand-picked and "developed" into worthless QBs. You don't give him a pass because he didn't luck into Aaron Rodgers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 We all know Schott will be blamed for sanchez's continued sukiness in 2012. He ruined him like he ruined brees Lol. Lol. Another one I love reading...Brees sucked until he got to the Saints...I've read that multiple times...Of course, if you bring up he was actually damn near top tier in his last couple of years with SD then the QB coach who got the blame for him suckitude here goes back to nothing. It's gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He's had six years, four QBs--two of whom were high draft picks he likely hand-picked and "developed" into worthless QBs. You don't give him a pass because he didn't luck into Aaron Rodgers Outside of sanchez who did he ruin? please dont tell me Clemens.. I could argue Brees thrived in SD, a 6 ft 2nd rd QB who managed to become Comeback Player of Year, yeah i know schott gets no credit there either, same credit as he did for taking a worthless QB to back to back AFC champ games, I know Schott gets no credit there either, it was the def that won all playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Outside of sanchez who did he ruin? please dont tell me Clemens.. I could argue Brees thrived in SD, a 6 ft 2nd QB who managed to become Comeback Player of Year, yeah i know schott gets no credit there either, same credit as he did for taking a worthless QB to back to back AFC champ games, I know Schott gets no credit there either, it was the def that won all playoff games. He picked Clemens and he picked Sanchez and he turned them into the same indecisive, confidence-deprived loser QBs. I understand you dudes want to jump hard on the Kill Sanchez train, but doing it by saying that Schotty is secretly wonderful and Santonio Holmes is secretly Jerry Rice is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He picked Clemens and he picked Sanchez and he turned them into the same indecisive, confidence-deprived loser QBs. I understand you dudes want to jump hard on the Kill Sanchez train, but doing it by saying that Schotty is secretly wonderful and Santonio Holmes is secretly Jerry Rice is absurd. wait are you saying Schott picked Sanchez now LOL, We shall see how Schott works with Bradford next yr and see what kind of magic Soprano has with MS I can predict already that schott ruined sanchez beyond repair. If he fixes Bradford does he get any credit? or does that go to Fisher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He picked Clemens and he picked Sanchez and he turned them into the same indecisive, confidence-deprived loser QBs. I understand you dudes want to jump hard on the Kill Sanchez train, but doing it by saying that Schotty is secretly wonderful and Santonio Holmes is secretly Jerry Rice is absurd. He picked Clemens and Sanchez? His top choice as a rookie OC was a senior QB who had spent most of his last college season out with an ankle injury? Are you sure that was who they imagined as the QB of the future? Clemens, like any non-first round QB, was an extreme longshot to begin with...That '06 draft was about the OL first and foremost...If they were serious about a QB in '06 they would have taken Leinart or Cutler. That's not even touching the fact that Clemens got ruined when he played behind that disgusting '07 offense with Clement at RT, Brad Smith getting WR starts, and no TE...He had 3 of the team's 4 wins in '07 anyway...would have been 4 out of 5 had starting WR Brad Smith held onto one pass in the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Time. Its a wonderful thing. It answers all questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He picked Clemens and he picked Sanchez and he turned them into the same indecisive, confidence-deprived loser QBs. I understand you dudes want to jump hard on the Kill Sanchez train, but doing it by saying that Schotty is secretly wonderful and Santonio Holmes is secretly Jerry Rice is absurd. Question for U, does Mccarthy get the blame for ruining Alex Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Fair enough. I do agree that the offense needs more talent, but I firmly believe that the talent at WR that we do have is limited by the QB. It's why I always go back to the Santana Moss/Chad Pennington argument. To me, that's a first hand example of a QB who didn't make the most out of the talent around him. I've seen Sanchez succeed with talent around him, but that was at USC. Unfortunately, in the NFL, you don't find yourself in situations where your guys are just so much better than the other guys that you find wide open WRs often. In this league, you have to make quick decisions and fit the ball into tight windows. Sanchez has never shown he can do that. I just don't believe that better players will make Sanchez stare down his WRs less. I don't think they'll make him go through his progressions more quickly. I don't think they'll make him make smarter decisions. I don't think they'll make him throw behind his targets less. I don't think they'll make him hold onto the football any better. I agree that Holmes was a detriment this year, but I think he is a good player who's got a horrible attitude, and much like myself, is frustrated with and has no faith in the guy throwing him the ball. In sum, I think perhaps there would be more positive plays with the better talent you suggest, but I'm not sure that does anything to eliminate the negative ones. We've been in so many games where if the QB play was a 0, as opposed to a negative, we'd have won. Miami and Denver this season were prime examples. All legit points EY I do think your point about progressions and smarter decisions with the ball brought out the worst in Sanchez this season. When we hear people bring up the type of offense run, and players not having to think so much in a complecated offense, I think thats one of the factors that hurts Sanchez developement. He seemed to start off really good the first few games of his career then go into a slump when the Jets tried to do too much. Have we been on that type of roller coaster ride ever since ?? probably so. The good games are there, which shows he can get it done, then come the bad games. We have also seen Sanchez do well in the hurry up when he does not have to think as much but we never seemed to fully exploit that positive play. Maybe we learn a lot more about Sanchez with the changes in the coaching staff. If the same tendencies continue to show themselves thats when we will have to seriously question weather hes the right guy but I think we have to at least give him that chance and I think many of us are willing to give him another year and possibly more if we see positive results About progressions and reads I think when a QB's protection breaks down as bad as it did this season thats a QB killer, especally a young QB. So first things first his confidence in protection needs to come back by us solidifying the O-line . Getting hammered does cause bad habits and can really stunt the growth of a young QB. Most QB's that make it to the NFL level including the ones that suck beyond belief have been superstars their entire lives they never get hit and they are always above the curve then the reality of the NFL sets in. If Sanchez can get stronger mentally the tools are there, and when I say mentally I dont mean hes stupid I mean can he focus on the very things you bring up without worrying about getting killed. Again I think we will find out this year but he cant be in this alone this team has to get better on offense and all the rumors and crap we are hearing need tro stop as well. The kid basicly needs to get tough IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
鲍勃不是我的名字 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Don't know about the rest of you but I'm glad Marty's son got hired by the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Question for U, does Mccarthy get the blame for ruining Alex Smith? Does Schottenheimer get credit for Brett Favre almost winning the MVP the year after leaving the Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Does Schottenheimer get credit for Brett Favre almost winning the MVP the year after leaving the Jets? In minn he ran the same Offense as he did in GB? Favre was and is a HOF QB and with knowing just 1/3 of playbook got jets to 8-3 before he tore muscle in arm. Next Question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Does Schottenheimer get credit for Brett Favre almost winning the MVP the year after leaving the Jets? Favre was a legit MVP candidate in '08 for 11 games...Not even touching that he went back to the warmest home stadium of the NFC North teams, which happened to house one of the most loaded offenses in the league (Shiancoe, Peterson, monster OL, Berrian)...the NFC North being the division he dominated for 15+ years before his one year hiatus in NJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He picked Clemens and Sanchez? His top choice as a rookie OC was a senior QB who had spent most of his last college season out with an ankle injury? Are you sure that was who they imagined as the QB of the future? Clemens, like any non-first round QB, was an extreme longshot to begin with...That '06 draft was about the OL first and foremost...If they were serious about a QB in '06 they would have taken Leinart or Cutler. He was a second rounder that they traded up to get so, yes, I'd say they were pretty serious about him being the QBOTF. And Schottenheimer worked him out twice, which would make you think that Clemens wasn't drafted despite Schott's begging them not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Favre was a legit MVP candidate in '08 for 11 games...Not even touching that he went back to the warmest home stadium of the NFC North teams, which happened to house one of the most loaded offenses in the league (Shiancoe, Peterson, monster OL, Berrian)...the NFC North being the division he dominated for 15+ years before his one year hiatus in NJ. Dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He was a second rounder that they traded up to get so, yes, I'd say they were pretty serious about him being the QBOTF. And Schottenheimer worked him out twice, which would make you think that Clemens wasn't drafted despite Schott's begging them not to. Are U now saying that Tanny doesnt make the picks now LOL, If i had to guess schott had 5% of draft input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
鲍勃不是我的名字 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Are U now saying that Tanny doesnt make the picks now LOL, If i had to guess schott had 5% of draft input. Everyone had a vote. Tanny has the veto. Pretty sure they were all on board with the Clemens pick. Jaws loved the pick at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ...guys like Matt Hasselbeck can get to a Super Bowl. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 In minn he ran the same Offense as he did in GB? Favre was and is a HOF QB and with knowing just 1/3 of playbook got jets to 8-3 before he tore muscle in arm. Next Question? So you're saying that because Minnesota adjusted their offense to better match their QBs strengths, his production increased to the point where he was nearly the MVP? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Does Schottenheimer get credit for Brett Favre almost winning the MVP the year after leaving the Jets? When Favre came here he played some very good games for the Jets and was having a good solid season before getting hurt. There is a strong possibility he told Shotty to take his complicated offense and shove it up his a$$ ...Why ? Because Favre was a HOF QB and had the clout and the career to back it up. He did nothing Fancy and he ran a very conservative offense with the Jets while he was here but we were able to move the ball. It was not only Favres talent it was Favre taking over and probably throwing half of Shottys playbook in the trash because he was ina position to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So you're saying that because Minnesota adjusted their offense to better match their QBs strengths, his production increased to the point where he was nearly the MVP? Interesting. I am saying favre knew 100% of Minn playbook, same system as in GB, Childress was the coach right? favre did pretty well in NY until he got hurt. To say Favre excelled in Minn because schott wasnt there is comical Wait till this year and see how rams perform, specifically bradford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 http://www.footballo...om/stats/qb2005 I don't get that. So Trent Green and Jake Plummer were the most elite, underrated QB's of all time? Plummer's only 37 btw. Just saying Tanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
鲍勃不是我的名字 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I am saying favre knew 100% of Minn playbook, same system as in GB, Childress was the coach right? favre did pretty well in NY until he got hurt. To say Favre excelled in Minn because schott wasnt there is comical Wait till this year and see how rams perform, specifically bradford. Are you suggesting that Bradford will outperform Sanchez or Clemens will beat out Bradford because he's so familar with Schotty's playbook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 When Favre came here he played some very good games for the Jets and was having a good solid season before getting hurt. There is a strong possibility he told Shotty to take his complicated offense and shove it up his a$$ ...Why ? Because Favre was a HOF QB and had the clout and the career to back it up. He did nothing Fancy and he ran a very conservative offense with the Jets while he was here but we were able to move the ball. It was not only Favres talent it was Favre taking over and probably throwing half of Shottys playbook in the trash because he was ina position to do it. Schotty's playbook is not complicated, it is designed to give the Qb clues to defensive reads. Call up Jim Miller on NFL radio if you do not believe me. sanchez is a mental midget, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Are U now saying that Tanny doesnt make the picks now LOL, If i had to guess schott had 5% of draft input. I dont think Tanny Makes the picks ...Tanny works deals and probably organizes the Jets personnel department but I dont think hes doing much on his own like a seasoned career GM/Football man. Tanny came into this league when Hired by Parcells to be a capoligist he was an accountant then and an accontant when Woody made him GM there is a reason they asked Bradway to stay and help him along. When it comes to working deals and getting things done i think hes very good when it comes to evaluating talent thats a whole different ball game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Are you suggesting that Bradford will outperform Sanchez or Clemens will beat out Bradford because he's so familar with Schotty's playbook? Bradford had an awful year, even before he got hurt. Let's see if schott can fix him. I doubt sanchez outperforms matt cassell let alone any other nfl QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He was a second rounder that they traded up to get so, yes, I'd say they were pretty serious about him being the QBOTF. And Schottenheimer worked him out twice, which would make you think that Clemens wasn't drafted despite Schott's begging them not to. Come on man...They drafted the 4th best QB in a year where there were three really hyped QB prospects...They waited until the 2nd to do it despite all the numbers saying that finding a QB past the first is as tough as it gets...I can't touch the "worked him out twice" argument because what does that even mean? Didn't the Colts work him out twice too? What's the significance of that? The Jets at the time when Mangini and Tannenbaum got together were building a reputation was one of the most thorough teams during the draft process...It was earned because they did things like see Kellen Clemens, injured senior QB prospect with above average tools, twice. I don't doubt they had hope he'd develop, but I doubt they deluded themselves into believing that a 2nd round QB who sat his senior year would be the franchise savior. NOT drafting a QB that year would have been foolish in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I dont think Tanny Makes the picks ...Tanny works deals and probably organizes the Jets personnel department but I dont think hes doing much on his own like a seasoned career GM/Football man. Tanny came into this league when Hired by Parcells to be a capoligist he was an accountant then and an accontant when Woody made him GM there is a reason they asked Bradway to stay and help him along. When it comes to working deals and getting things done i think hes very good when it comes to evaluating talent thats a whole different ball game I was kidding shane, most of us know Tanny has no clue on talent eval and relies on HC and clinksdale input for picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Dude. He wasn't a legit MVP candidate with the '08 Jets for 11 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
鲍勃不是我的名字 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Bradford had an awful year, even before he got hurt. Let's see if schott can fix him. I doubt sanchez outperforms matt cassell let alone any other nfl QB Schotty will have Bradford and Clemens playing at an elite level. Look what hid did for Brees and Rivers. The guy is an excellent coach just ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Schotty's playbook is not complicated, it is designed to give the Qb clues to defensive reads. Call up Jim Miller on NFL radio if you do not believe me. sanchez is a mental midget, Jim Miller on NFL radio ?? Was he in the Jets facility and does he have a copy of the Jets playbook ? The team came out and said the offense was too complicated which means more than one player was having issue with it. Pretty easy to read between those lines Sanchez is not a mental Midget. Sanchez just needs to make some adjustments and he will be fine, but he cant do it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I was kidding shane, most of us know Tanny has no clue on talent eval and relies on HC and clinksdale input for picks thats cool man my mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Jim Miller on NFL radio ?? Was he in the Jets facility and does he have a copy of the Jets playbook ? The team came out and said the offense was too complicated which means more than one player was having issue with it. Pretty easy to read between those lines Sanchez is not a mental Midget. Sanchez just needs to make some adjustments and he will be fine, but he cant do it alone. Gannon was and i spoke with him too, same answer sanchez has 6 brainfarts a week. Jim Miller is very familiar with cavanaugh and he knows jets offense. R U tellin me Miller is an idiot and u know more than him as well, get your resume ready for tanny dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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