Sanchez wasn't pressured _that_ much

[afosomf]

Brad Johnson was the last "good" QB to win a SB in 2002 and the only reason that happened was because Gruden had the Raider's playbook and that fool Callahan failed to change the name of the plays.

So on what evidence do you prop up your fantasy that a "good" QB will or wouldve won a SB with the Rex's Jets?

No more Brad Johnsons or Dilfers will win a SB, the NFL rules are night and day last time those 2 avg qbs were on field

[SMC]

I don't consider Big Ben "elite"... in fact he's played like dog crap in multiple playoff games.

I think your hypothesis is flawed.

Big Ben is most certainly elite. He's simply an up & down QB, like most elite QBs are. But his numbers and big game experience pan out.

People confuse the HOF QBs with elites. They're like squares and rectangles. The modern HOF caliber QBs are all elite, but an elite QB doesn't have to be the level of a HOFer.

[villain_the_foe]

What in the **** is a strong playbook?

Asking the right question will get you halfway to the right answer.

[Pac]

Big Ben is most certainly elite. He's simply an up & down QB, like most elite QBs are. But his numbers and big game experience pan out.

People confuse the HOF QBs with elites. They're like squares and rectangles. The modern HOF caliber QBs are all elite, but an elite QB doesn't have to be the level of a HOFer.

Manning is about as elite as they come and he has the same # of SB wins as Dilfer, Johnson, Doug Williams, and Jeff Hostetler (sp?).

What bad team did an elite QB carry to a SB?

[afosomf]

Thats what I keep hearing bro. But you know society, everyone has ADD so they cant backtrack past the previous 10 minutes.

Schotty has been horrible since 06, as well as hackett before him.

we shall C how bad schott is with Bradford,

[ZachEY]

Brad Johnson was the last "good" QB to win a SB in 2002 and the only reason that happened was because Gruden had the Raider's playbook and that fool Callahan failed to change the name of the plays.

So on what evidence do you prop up your fantasy that a "good" QB will or wouldve won a SB with the Rex's Jets?

Big Ben IMO is not elite. I'd take some guys who haven't won it over him.

[SMC]

Manning is about as elite as they come and he has the same # of SB wins as Dilfer, Johnson, Doug Williams, and Jeff Hostetler (sp?).

What bad team did an elite QB carry to a SB?

LOL. Good job citing QBs prior to the current parity era. Relying on Hostetler and Williams? You might as go back to Earl Morrall. And Dilfer won a SB with perhaps the greatest defense ever.

So yeah, that's a beautiful blueprint--let the Jets make the greatest defense ever in order to be a WC team (just like the 2000 Ravens) and win the SB.

Lastly, Johnson was a probowler the year they won the SB. Franchises can no longer build super teams like they did in 1970s, 80s, and early 90s. Free agency ended that era. In the current era it's the superstar QB that rule and the evidence supports that.

[villain_the_foe]

Manning is about as elite as they come and he has the same # of SB wins as Dilfer, Johnson, Doug Williams, and Jeff Hostetler (sp?).

What bad team did an elite QB carry to a SB?

I dont recall one. the closest I guess was Marino, but I was 5 years old then, so I cant call it. Since I've been following the NFL (Since 94) I would have to agree I havent seen an elite QB on a terrible team singlehandedly take a team to the SB.

[SMC]

Big Ben IMO is not elite. I'd take some guys who haven't won it over him.

Then we'll have to disagree. His numbers, winning percentage, playoff performances support that he is.

And who would you take over him? Rivers? Shaub? LOFL.

[villain_the_foe]

we shall C how bad schott is with Bradford,

Like he did with Brees, Rivers, Penny, Favre, Clemens and Sanchez?

Im not saying it cant happen, but what has his career amounted to outside of the hype of him being the son of Marty....HONESTLY? He's never developed a QB in his professional career. And thats the truth!

[villain_the_foe]

Then we'll have to disagree. His numbers, winning percentage, playoff performances support that he is.

And who would you take over him? Rivers? Shaub? LOFL.

Once again stats telling half the story. Now dont get me wrong, Big Ben is a very good QB, but I'd take Rivers over him in a heart beat. Lets keep it 100, the success of the Pittsburgh Steelers is their stout defense. Big Ben plays good enough, though he does have a very unique ability to extend plays. I will give him that. However, If Rivers were the Steelers QB he would have as many rings, but in my opinion, maybe more.

Ben is a very good QB, elite?.....no.

[SMC]

Once again stats telling half the story. Now dont get me wrong, Big Ben is a very good QB, but I'd take Rivers over him in a heart beat. Lets keep it 100, the success of the Pittsburgh Steelers is their stout defense. Big Ben plays good enough, though he does have a very unique ability to extend plays. I will give him that. However, If Rivers were the Steelers QB he would have as many rings, but in my opinion, maybe more.

Ben is a very good QB, elite?.....no.

Rivers is a bona fide postseason choker.

Seriously. How many times do we need to see Rivers throw away playoff games before we stop bringing him up in conversations?

[ZachEY]

Like we did with Brees, Rivers, Penny, Favre, Clemens and Sanchez?

Im not saying it cant happen, but what has his career amounted to outside of the hype of him being the son of Marty? He's never developed a QB in his professional career. And thats the truth!

Too funny.

Schotty was the QB Coach, not the offensive coordinator, for Drew Brees.

He held that position for 4 years.

In the last two years, Brees played at a pretty close to elite level.

As for Rivers, he had 17 passing attempts under Schotty's tenure.

Pennington was toast before Schotty got here.

Clemens has never resurfaced with a variety of new QB coaches and OC's.

Favre was playing pretty well and we were 8-3 until he got hurt.

And we're a few short months away from Sanchez sucking with Sparano.

[villain_the_foe]

Rivers is a bona fide postseason choker.

Seriously. How many times do we need to see Rivers throw away playoff games before we stop bringing him up in conversations?

2 OR 3 more times lol.

[villain_the_foe]

Too funny.

Schotty was the QB Coach, not the offensive coordinator, for Drew Brees.

He held that position for 4 years.

In the last two years, Brees played at a pretty close to elite level.

As for Rivers, he had 17 passing attempts under Schotty's tenure.

Pennington was toast before Schotty got here.

Clemens has never resurfaced with a variety of new QB coaches and OC's.

Favre was playing pretty well and we were 8-3 until he got hurt.

And we're a few short months away from Sanchez sucking with Sparano.

Exactly. Cant disagree with you there. Brees was not a good QB when he was being DEVELOPED by this tool off a coach. And as for Penny, well we all know you got off that train along time ago, as you proclaimed yourself. I'll pass from your point of view on that one.

As for sanchez, if you're a prophet and can tell the future let me know, if not then being that you're closer than I am to being a doctor I say you should prescribe yourself some meds for your little nostradamus rendition here. lol

[SMC]

2 OR 3 more times lol.

LOL

For me, an elite QB is a combination of regular season production and playoff performance. The QB doesn't need to win a SB, but he needs to be able to play big in the playoffs, even if it ends up in a 50/50 tilt like Peyton with his playoff record.

So until Romo starts winning some playoff games, he'll never be elite. Same with Ryan and Rivers. Flacco has mainly been dreadful in the postseason despite the 5 playoff victories and his regular season production is not up there.

[ZachEY]

Exactly. Cant disagree with you there. Brees was not a good QB when he was being DEVELOPED by this tool off a coach. And as for Penny, well we all know you got off that train along time ago, as you proclaimed yourself. I'll pass from your point of view on that one.

As for sanchez, if you're a prophet and can tell the future let me know, if not then being that you're closer than I am to being a doctor I say you should prescribe yourself some meds for your little nostradamus rendition here. lol

What does DEVELOPED mean? So, schotty gets blamed for years 2 and 3 of Brees but gets no credit for 3 and 4 when he started coming close to the super star that he is today?

I'm not sure what your complaint about my Pennington argument is? It started years ago and it was pretty much flawless as his career played out.

As for Sanchez, of course I can't predict with certainty. Neither can a weather-man. But, considering all of Sanchez's flaws (and there are many... still waiting for a few points as to what he does well on the field), the fact that he's statistically at the bottom of the barrel of QB's in most measures which mirror what you see when you watch him, and considering there's almost no history of a new offensive coordinator coming in and completely changing a guys career, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to expect Sanchez's development next season to continue on it's current path...

I realize it's easier to blame Schotty though.

[afosomf]

Like he did with Brees, Rivers, Penny, Favre, Clemens and Sanchez?

Im not saying it cant happen, but what has his career amounted to outside of the hype of him being the son of Marty....HONESTLY? He's never developed a QB in his professional career. And thats the truth!

Not sure what crap you are reading on schott bout Brees, brees was named to 2 pro bowls under schott's tenure and comeback player of year, also cam cameron was

OC and it so happens is being criticized for Flacco.

rivers held out of TCand was beaten out by Brees, then schott went to jets, not sure what u are referring to here, schott had no impact good or bad with rivers

Penny and Clemons both suk, you are grasping now

Favre was 8-3 before tearing triceps, again nice try

Sanchez made it to afc title game his first 2 years under schott, even though sanchez blew.

[villain_the_foe]

LOL

For me, an elite QB is a combination of regular season production and playoff performance. The QB doesn't need to win a SB, but he needs to be able to play big in the playoffs, even if it ends up in a 50/50 tilt like Peyton with his playoff record.

So until Romo starts winning some playoff games, he'll never be elite. Same with Ryan and Rivers. Flacco has mainly been dreadful in the postseason despite the 5 playoff victories and his regular season production is not up there.

Your view of an elite QB is pretty good. Im not negating that at all. I just think that if Rivers was on a Steeler team his record wouldnt be what it is. I think it would be better. I also think that if Big Ben was on the chargers his record wouldnt be what it is.

There's a culture at play, I think the Steelers are simply a winning organization. I dont think the chargers are, hence my reason of NEVER being scared of that team even though I have alot of respect for Rivers.

This is a team sport, and when I say that im talking about the people even off the field. Like the Jets, the Jets have talent on the field, but they dont have a very good staff or a culture (though I think Rex is changing that) that will be a dominant successful football organization.

[villain_the_foe]

What does DEVELOPED mean? So, schotty gets blamed for years 2 and 3 of Brees but gets no credit for 3 and 4 when he started coming close to the super star that he is today?

I'm not sure what your complaint about my Pennington argument is? It started years ago and it was pretty much flawless as his career played out.

As for Sanchez, of course I can't predict with certainty. Neither can a weather-man. But, considering all of Sanchez's flaws (and there are many... still waiting for a few points as to what he does well on the field), the fact that he's statistically at the bottom of the barrel of QB's in most measures which mirror what you see when you watch him, and considering there's almost no history of a new offensive coordinator coming in and completely changing a guys career, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to expect Sanchez's development next season to continue on it's current path...

I realize it's easier to blame Schotty though.

It is easier to blame him. His record would support the blame as well.

[villain_the_foe]

Not sure what crap you are reading on schott bout Brees, brees was named to 2 pro bowls under schott's tenure and comeback player of year, also cam cameron was

OC and it so happens is being criticized for Flacco.

rivers held out of TCand was beaten out by Brees, then schott went to jets, not sure what u are referring to here, schott had no impact good or bad with rivers

Penny and Clemons both suk, you are grasping now

Favre was 8-3 before tearing triceps, again nice try

Sanchez made it to afc title game his first 2 years under schott, even though sanchez blew.

And the coordinator allowed for the QB wit a torn tricep to not only continue to play, but to throw away a season in which they started 8-3 by being bumped by the QB that they threw away. lol. He should have been gone after that game as well.

Coordinators have influence with what happens on their offense and who plays. He okayed Favre getting back on the field.

[ZachEY]

It is easier to blame him. His record would support the blame as well.

You really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining that people "ignore your points".

[afosomf]

And the coordinator allowed for the QB wit a torn tricep to not only continue to play, but to throw away a season in which they started 8-3 by being bumped by the QB that they threw away. lol. He should have been gone after that game as well.

Coordinators have influence with what happens on their offense and who plays. He okayed Favre getting back on the field.

OMG you are kidding right, blaming favre playing on Schott, wow.................unreal, pass me ze dope u are smokin

[ZachEY]

And the coordinator allowed for the QB wit a torn tricep to not only continue to play, but to throw away a season in which they started 8-3 by being bumped by the QB that they threw away. lol. He should have been gone after that game as well.

Coordinators have influence with what happens on their offense and who plays. He okayed Favre getting back on the field.

Link? Proof?

[ZachEY]

OMG you are kidding right, blaming favre playing on Schott, wow.................unreal, pass me ze dope u are smokin

At this point, you have to wonder if he even believes what he's saying, or if he's just messing with us.

[villain_the_foe]

You really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining that people "ignore your points".

I dont have a leg, I have two to stand on. Im actually in a rush to blow out of here for the day so I didnt have time to really go though your last statement....but that wouldnt be the first time. Got to leave buddy. Til next time, same bat place, same bat channel!

[villain_the_foe]

OMG you are kidding right, blaming favre playing on Schott, wow.................unreal, pass me ze dope u are smokin

I stopped smoking dope like 10 years ago. but it is more pleasurable than the bullsh*t I hear on the forum at times.

Im blaming Schott for the outcome of this offense, and if the offense isnt producing I look at the coordinator.

[villain_the_foe]

Link? Proof?

naaaaaa.....

lol.

[afosomf]

I stopped smoking dope like 10 years ago. but it is more pleasurable than the bullsh*t I hear on the forum at times.

Im blaming Schott for the outcome of this offense, and if the offense isnt producing I look at the coordinator.

U do know sean payton was run out of Ny right? now he is a genius

[RutgersJetFan]

I realize it's easier to blame Schotty though.

I haven't seen a plot line this twisted and deranged since Home Alone 3.

[villain_the_foe]

U do know sean payton was run out of Ny right? now he is a genius

And how many sean payton's are there?

[afosomf]

And how many sean payton's are there?

meaning what? Mccarthey did nothing for alex smith in SF and now he is a genius with rodgers

[sg3]

seriously villian, stop it

Don't you know that the Son of Marty is blameless for anything. Obviously the mess Favre made of that season with his demands to continue playing to protect his precious "streak" are all the fault of

MARK SANCHEZ

at least in the deluded eyes of the "Sanchez Hater Same Old Jets Fans Society and Dance Club" here at JN

[JerryK]

I'm really late to this thread.

I admit I'm an o-line worshipper. But I also respect Bitonti's insights. I think Sanchez has physical ability to be elite, but maybe his intellect is holding him back. A stronger mind might produce more Peyton-ish reads & audibles at the last second. A quicker mind might be able to scramble better (altho I still think his blockers pissed on him this year. He took some huge hits from behind because his blocker didn't even touch the defender).

During the Hard Knocks series, Sanchez went around drawing moustaches on peoples' pictures. I'm all for jokes, but ideas like that come from the mind of a 12-year old. That silliness looked like it came right out of a Mentos commercial.

[Jetsfan80]

During the Hard Knocks series, Sanchez went around drawing moustaches on peoples' pictures. I'm all for jokes, but ideas like that come from the mind of a 12-year old. That silliness looked like it came right out of a Mentos commercial.

Agreed. It's not OK to behave like a kid when your results are in the sh*tter.