SenorGato Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So, you mean to tell me that Sanchez, being pressured just 28% of the time in comparison to Eli's 40% and Rivers 30%, two QB's who's play design allows them to throw the ball deep rather often is a reasonable comparison to Sanchez, a QB who isnt allowed to throw the ball pass the middle linebackers in an offense that the longest pass play was thrown by a WR on a wildcat rollout. Like I said, Mark Sanchez being pressured 28% of the time is a disaster when he's only able to throw 5 yards in the first place. Give me a break CTM, how fast must this offensive line be breaking down if he's not even throwing past the damn 1st down mark? Think about that for a second.....really. Wasn't allowed to....attack deeper...Who the **** actually believes this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Then in that case, I gave you too much credit. Well, if not thinking the whole league is a conspiracy to make Sanchez look bad is undeserving of credit, they yes, you gave me far to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Oh, and great QBs protect themselves extremely well. Sanchez does not do that. He likes to go backwards too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Wasn't allowed to....attack deeper...Who the **** actually believes this? cornerbacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Oh, and great QBs protect themselves extremely well. Sanchez does not do that. He likes to go backwards too. Never said he was great. Im just bringing to the realization that his stats and figures only tell half the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well, if not thinking the whole league is a conspiracy to make Sanchez look bad is undeserving of credit, they yes, you gave me far to much. Certain Jet fans are not "the league". And thats not even a conspiracy theory, thats just a stupid comment of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 cornerbacks What does that even mean? The first people who found out he can't attack downfield consistently? Downfield being the passing game that is far more subtle than a bomb to Edwards or Holmes once in a while, which is basically the coaching staff banking on the fact that teams have fallen asleep deep because of how bad he was the rest of the time. Sanchez can complete a bunch of short passes in a row...we saw him do it against the Steelers and Browns in 2010 and probably others....I have not seen him consistently attack the intermediate and deeper parts of the field successfully since college. Maybe his first game against the Texans, but that game was such a gimme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Certain Jet fans are not "the league". And thats not even a conspiracy theory, thats just a stupid comment of yours. Well, according to most of the leagues statistics, Sanchez is a bad QB. Only "certain jets fans" try to spin away why he isn't. Sometimes parsimony is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What does that even mean? The first people who found out he can't attack downfield consistently? Downfield being the passing game that is far more subtle than a bomb to Edwards or Holmes once in a while, which is basically the coaching staff banking on the fact that teams have fallen asleep deep because of how bad he was the rest of the time. Sanchez can complete a bunch of short passes in a row...we saw him do it against the Steelers and Browns in 2010 and probably others....I have not seen him consistently attack the intermediate and deeper parts of the field successfully since college. Maybe his first game against the Texans, but that game was such a gimme... He needs stronger play design. Schotty's was weak, or am I lying here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well, according to most of the leagues statistics, Sanchez is a bad QB. Only "certain jets fans" try to spin away why he isn't. Sometimes parsimony is right. Well, according to some league statistics, he's a decent to above average QB. Parsimony is right, when it comes to the name of Schotty's playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 He needs stronger play design. Schotty's was weak, or am I lying here? Tr True true. Not just play designs, but also plans and calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Tr True true. Not just play designs, but also plans and calls. Then thats all im saying. I dont expect Mark Sanchez, a guy who obviously has the raw talent to be able to be a "great QB" with virtually no development team around him, a pathetic play book from an O.C. and play designs within that playbook that will not get WR's open. On top of the fact that he's not been able to get any type of chemistry with anyone but his TE. Sanchez numbers arent great, and im not defending them, all im saying is that I can see why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Does it take into account: 1.) % of dropbacks which are pressured. Obviously Eli is going to have more, he threw the ball a crap ton more. 2.) Avg. time between dropback and attempt? It's amazing Sanchez was pressured as much as he was, considering he rarely threw longer than 10 yards. Eli only had 46 more attempts than Sanchez, thsi year. Not really a "crap ton". Sanchez got sacked so much because of his inability to make his reads in a timely manor, if at all. He cannot go through progressions in a way a proficcient, able QB can. This leads to him holding the ball far longer than he has to. The lenght of the pass is irrelevant. As it doesn't matter if it is a 1 yard pass or an 80 yd pass, he can't read make the reads in either situation, most of the time. Throw in the fact he turns 2 o3 step dropbacks in to 5 steps and 5 step dropbacks in 7 steps, that usually explains why we are taking sacks of 8,9 or 10+ yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Excuses excuses excuses, it never ends for this ******* loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So, you mean to tell me that Sanchez, being pressured just 28% of the time in comparison to Eli's 40% and Rivers 30%, two QB's who's play design allows them to throw the ball deep rather often is a reasonable comparison to Sanchez, a QB who isnt allowed to throw the ball pass the middle linebackers in an offense that the longest pass play was thrown by a WR on a wildcat rollout. Like I said, Mark Sanchez being pressured 28% of the time is a disaster when he's only able to throw 5 yards in the first place. Give me a break CTM, how fast must this offensive line be breaking down if he's not even throwing past the damn 1st down mark? Think about that for a second.....really. Think about what? My opinion is that Sanchez threw short because that's what the coaches wanted him to do cause he's terrible at throwing every intermediate route besides the slant.. I've seen it on TV, Sanchez glancing longer and coming back to the checkdown, I think he knows he sucks at it too. Further, Brady plays in a short passing game offense and his % of pressure is nearly identical to Sanchez, yet I don't here pats fans incessantly whining about thier Oline (and Brady helps their Oline a ton more w/protections, blitz recognition and actually presenting a passing threat) Lastly some of those 5 yard crosses take longer to develop then deeper routes anyway. I don't think you have a point at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So, you mean to tell me that Sanchez, being pressured just 28% of the time in comparison to Eli's 40% and Rivers 30%, two QB's who's play design allows them to throw the ball deep rather often is a reasonable comparison to Sanchez, a QB who isnt allowed to throw the ball pass the middle linebackers in an offense that the longest pass play was thrown by a WR on a wildcat rollout. Like I said, Mark Sanchez being pressured 28% of the time is a disaster when he's only able to throw 5 yards in the first place. Give me a break CTM, how fast must this offensive line be breaking down if he's not even throwing past the damn 1st down mark? Think about that for a second.....really. Yeah that's what I was talking about. The % really doesn't jive with me. He was consistently getting harassed on 3 step drops. I remember Baltimore hitting him numerous times before he even got out of his damn drop. I really don't think there's an appropriate amount of pressure that should be on a QB in the quick slants that Sanchez was running constantly either... though maybe scheme was at issue there (or lack thereof). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Think about what? My opinion is that Sanchez threw short because that's what the coaches wanted him to do cause he's terrible at throwing every intermediate route besides the slant.. I've seen it on TV, Sanchez glancing longer and coming back to the checkdown, I think he knows he sucks at it too. Further, Brady plays in a short passing game offense and his % of pressure is nearly identical to Sanchez, yet I don't here pats fans incessantly whining about thier Oline (and Brady helps their Oline a ton more w/protections, blitz recognition and actually presenting a passing threat) Lastly some of those 5 yard crosses take longer to develop then deeper routes anyway. I don't think you have a point at all "Accuracy is a hell of a drug." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 These "questions" are all an effort to avoid parsimony and to make excuses. You could ask similar questions about any QB in the league, so it pretty much evens out. At the end of the day, in this case, Mark Sanchez was not pressured any more than an average amount, and that's a fact. Other facts include, him being one of the lowest rated passers in the league, was at the bottom of yards per attempt, and the bottom of the league in completion percentage. He was at the top of the league in interceptions, and lead the league in turnovers. You can ask all the questions you want, but even ignoring the eye test (which makes it worse), they're all just excuses and apologies for an obviously bad quarterback. You're really missing the point man come on. It'd be like gathering a bunch of millionaires in a room, finding the guy with the average salary among them and deeming him middle class. Judgment should be made on the entirety of the information, and seeking out that information does not mean you have an agenda. Ignoring it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 is there a stat for mild pressure that an under-prepared QB panics about, making it look like the running of the bulls in Pamplona? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I watched a lot of Jet games this year. The Jet Offensive line was not that good and there were a good number of jail breaks. I don't care what any numbers try to tell us. Anybody want to go into next year with that same unit intact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I watched a lot of Jet games this year. The Jet Offensive line was not that good and there were a good number of jail breaks. I don't care what any numbers try to tell us. Anybody want to go into next year with that same unit intact? Wayne Hunter needs to go. Other than that.. YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I watched a lot of Jet games this year. The Jet Offensive line was not that good and there were a good number of jail breaks. I don't care what any numbers try to tell us. Anybody want to go into next year with that same unit intact? Of course not, but the fact that Sanchez needs 5 pro bowlers on the O-line to be successful means he isn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I watched a lot of Jet games this year. The Jet Offensive line was not that good and there were a good number of jail breaks. I don't care what any numbers try to tell us. Anybody want to go into next year with that same unit intact? I watched a lot of Giants games this year. The GIants Offensive line was not that good and there were a good number of jail breaks. I watched a lot of 49ers games this year. The 49er Offensive line was terrible and there were a ton of jail breaks. I watched a lot of Steelers games this year. The Steelers Offensive line was not that good and there were a good number of jail breaks. etc.. the defense gets paid too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg3 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 good to see that the Sanchez haters society has this nice warm and fuzzy thread available to meet and spew their venom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 good to see that the Sanchez haters society has this nice warm and fuzzy thread available to meet and spew their venom Proud member since 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Damn all the stats. Magic 8 ball sez as long as Snachez is the starting QB the NYJ will go nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You're really missing the point man come on. It'd be like gathering a bunch of millionaires in a room, finding the guy with the average salary among them and deeming him middle class. Judgment should be made on the entirety of the information, and seeking out that information does not mean you have an agenda. Ignoring it does. No, it's not like that at all. Because, unlike you example, I actually have the entire population in front of me. Every single QB is considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Proud member since 2011. n00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 n00b Yeah it took me a while but I came around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 No, it's not like that at all. Because, unlike you example, I actually have the entire population in front of me. Every single QB is considered. YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT IT WAS ALL SCHOTTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I suspect that these numbers would look even worse if you factored in how long the QB held the ball after the snap in each pressure situation, but unfortunately, I don't have the data. There are studies that show that Sanchez holds the ball longer when sacked compared to the league average (only Flacco and Roethlisberger take "longer" sacks on average over the last 3 years), whereas Eli is under... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Think about what? My opinion is that Sanchez threw short because that's what the coaches wanted him to do cause he's terrible at throwing every intermediate route besides the slant.. I've seen it on TV, Sanchez glancing longer and coming back to the checkdown, I think he knows he sucks at it too. Further, Brady plays in a short passing game offense and his % of pressure is nearly identical to Sanchez, yet I don't here pats fans incessantly whining about thier Oline (and Brady helps their Oline a ton more w/protections, blitz recognition and actually presenting a passing threat) Lastly some of those 5 yard crosses take longer to develop then deeper routes anyway. I don't think you have a point at all Watching the playoffs...its obvious the Sanchez can not do this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I suspect that these numbers would look even worse if you factored in how long the QB held the ball after the snap in each pressure situation, but unfortunately, I don't have the data. There are studies that show that Sanchez holds the ball longer when sacked compared to the league average (only Flacco and Roethlisberger take "longer" sacks on average over the last 3 years), whereas Eli is under... Lol. Honestly, is there anything Sanchez does well? Besides modeling ladies white linen pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 n00b LOL, but to what end? The Jets are going nowhere without an elite QB. A "good" QB will get the Jets where they usually peak--AFCCG. They need an elite signal caller. The only way that happens is if Peyton has a medical miracle and signs with the Jets or Sanchez makes a major leap. Odds are seriously against both. Otherwise you're just setting yourself to start dissing Jets QB X in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I suspect that these numbers would look even worse if you factored in how long the QB held the ball after the snap in each pressure situation, but unfortunately, I don't have the data. There are studies that show that Sanchez holds the ball longer when sacked compared to the league average (only Flacco and Roethlisberger take "longer" sacks on average over the last 3 years), whereas Eli is under... Incomplete, but still. http://footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure-long-and-short-sack-percentages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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