Sanchez wasn't pressured _that_ much

[afosomf]

SUUUUUURE IT DOES, until we ask the very important question of how many drop backs in total did Sanchez have in the first place. He may have been pressured only164 times, but what % is that of his total snaps on the year? I doubt Sanchez had as many drop backs as Eli or Rivers, or was holding the ball for an extend period of time like Cam, big ben or Vick to extend plays.

I think your statement, like this tread in general tells us that the hate on sanchez is as bad as advertised.

And you are the one who thinks a change of OC will help him....good luck with that, sanchez cost jets 2 games by himself denver and Gints games,

[ZachEY]

LOL, but to what end? The Jets are going nowhere without an elite QB. A "good" QB will get the Jets where they usually peak--AFCCG.

They need an elite signal caller. The only way that happens is if Peyton has a medical miracle and signs with the Jets or Sanchez makes a major leap. Odds are seriously against both.

Otherwise you're just setting yourself to start dissing Jets QB X in the future.

See, I do believe that with a top 10 QB, that isn't elite, you can win in this league.

I genuinely believe in 2009, with a top 10 QB we were the best team in the league. We were somewhat close with a bottom 5 QB. A game against Green Bay last year would have been a good too with a top 10 QB.

Elite would be good to keep us always competitive. I'll take "good" at this point.

[Damaged89]

See, I do believe that with a top 10 QB, that isn't elite, you can win in this league.

I genuinely believe in 2009, with a top 10 QB we were the best team in the league. We were somewhat close with a bottom 5 QB. A game against Green Bay last year would have been a good too with a top 10 QB.

Elite would be good to keep us always competitive. I'll take "good" at this point.

This!

Look at the texans before shaub got hurt. Good run game+good defense+some skill position players+ second tier quarterback. It's attainable, we just need to find that last ingredient.

[SMC]

See, I do believe that with a top 10 QB, that isn't elite, you can win in this league.

I genuinely believe in 2009, with a top 10 QB we were the best team in the league. We were somewhat close with a bottom 5 QB. A game against Green Bay last year would have been a good too with a top 10 QB.

Elite would be good to keep us always competitive. I'll take "good" at this point.

Then we're in the classic "agree to disagree" territory. It's just like the NBA now. You need that superstar player in order to win a championship and for the NFL, that means a superstar QB.

You can live in the Penningtologist-esque fantasy (i.e., "If Chad had A, B, C ... X, Y, Z he would have won a championship!") about 2009 and 2010, but I have a hard time believing that merely a "good" QB beats Peyton in Indy in 2009 and then the Saints with Brees. The same with Packers in 2010.

My problem with your "good QB" argument is that, IMO, a "good" QB is one who puts up good stats but isn't a big moment QB. If he was, then he'd be elite.

So there'd be a time in the postseason where the Jets need this annonymous "good" QB to make a big play and he can't, because he's not elite.

Take your "good" QB and assured postseason dissapointment because I strongly believe you need an elite QB. That's why I traded up. GO GIANTS!!!

[ZachEY]

Then we're in the classic "agree to disagree" territory. It's just like the NBA now. You need that superstar player in order to win a championship and for the NFL, that means a superstar QB.

You can live in the Penningtologist-esque fantasy (i.e., "If Chad had A, B, C ... X, Y, Z he would have won a championship!") about 2009 and 2010, but I have a hard time believing that merely a "good" QB beats Peyton in Indy in 2009 and then the Saints with Brees. The same with Packers in 2010.

My problem with your "good QB" argument is that, IMO, a "good" QB is one who puts up good stats but isn't a big moment QB. If he was, then he'd be elite.

So there'd be a time in the postseason where the Jets need this annonymous "good" QB to make a big play and he can't, because he's not elite.

Take your "good" QB and assured postseason dissapointment because I strongly believe you need an elite QB. That's why I traded up. GO GIANTS!!!

First off, I invented the word penningtologist, so don't try to put that evil on me.

Second, I didn't consider Chad a good QB. I was one of the first off that train too.

I'm talking about a guy who defenses at least have to respect. We haven't had that.

[afosomf]

This!

Look at the texans before shaub got hurt. Good run game+good defense+some skill position players+ second tier quarterback. It's attainable, we just need to find that last ingredient.

Texans have a Killer D, way ahead of what we have imo.

[The Crusher]

LOL, but to what end? The Jets are going nowhere without an elite QB. A "good" QB will get the Jets where they usually peak--AFCCG.

They need an elite signal caller. The only way that happens is if Peyton has a medical miracle and signs with the Jets or Sanchez makes a major leap. Odds are seriously against both.

Otherwise you're just setting yourself to start dissing Jets QB X in the future.

....Or maybe Ben will go all rapey again and the Steelers cut their losess and well you know.

[JustInFudge]

See, I do believe that with a top 10 QB, that isn't elite, you can win in this league.

I genuinely believe in 2009, with a top 10 QB we were the best team in the league. We were somewhat close with a bottom 5 QB. A game against Green Bay last year would have been a good too with a top 10 QB.

Elite would be good to keep us always competitive. I'll take "good" at this point.

I think if Aaron Rodgers was a NY Jet, we'd be the best team in the league.

[The Crusher]

Texans have a Killer D, way ahead of what we have imo.

Yeah but it's a lot easeir for me to think Rex's defense will get better and even elite. Not so much for the QB situation.

[afosomf]

Yeah but it's a lot easeir for me to think Rex's defense will get better and even elite. Not so much for the QB situation.

We need safety's and OLB who can rush the passer.

The difference between 49ers/Texans Defs and everyone else is night and day. what happened to all these exotic blitzes rex is known for?

[The Crusher]

We need safety's and OLB who can rush the passer.

The difference between 49ers/Texans Defs and everyone else is night and day. what happened to all these exotic blitzes rex is known for?

Vernon Gholston turned out to suck at football for one. Slow white safeties for two, League caught up?

[afosomf]

Vernon Gholston turned out to suck at football for one. Slow white safeties for two, League caught up?

never trust a OSU Defensive player

Bama just Got the #1 signing class..... saban is god

[bitonti]

We need safety's and OLB who can rush the passer.

The difference between 49ers/Texans Defs and everyone else is night and day. what happened to all these exotic blitzes rex is known for?

I agree they need S, OLB and RT

and I also agree the defense wasn't as good this year as it was in 2010 and 2009.

but it's a passing league. look at the Pats, their defense is terrible.

we are gonna watch a Super Bowl that most likely will be a shoot out.

that's the league right now. they need the QB play to get better.

people who are blaming this all on schotty or wayne hunter or the lack of locker room chemistry ... are fooling themselves.

its about mark. It always has been. They will go as far as #6 takes them. the QB is the most important position in all of sports. No other position has that much impact on the team winning or losing.

[villain_the_foe]

Think about what? My opinion is that Sanchez threw short because that's what the coaches wanted him to do cause he's terrible at throwing every intermediate route besides the slant.. I've seen it on TV, Sanchez glancing longer and coming back to the checkdown, I think he knows he sucks at it too. Further, Brady plays in a short passing game offense and his % of pressure is nearly identical to Sanchez, yet I don't here pats fans incessantly whining about thier Oline (and Brady helps their Oline a ton more w/protections, blitz recognition and actually presenting a passing threat)

Lastly some of those 5 yard crosses take longer to develop then deeper routes anyway. I don't think you have a point at all

lmao! You know what? With a schotty I can perfectly see your point of how a 5 yard slant takes longer to develop than a 40 yard dash 9 route. Trust me, I no longer have a point now that Schotty is gone. Now we can move forward with this offense.

[jbone]

good to see that the Sanchez haters society has this nice warm and fuzzy thread available to meet and spew their venom

Proud memeber since we stupidly traded up to draft a guy who barely won the starting job at USC.

[villain_the_foe]

Yeah that's what I was talking about. The % really doesn't jive with me. He was consistently getting harassed on 3 step drops. I remember Baltimore hitting him numerous times before he even got out of his damn drop. I really don't think there's an appropriate amount of pressure that should be on a QB in the quick slants that Sanchez was running constantly either... though maybe scheme was at issue there (or lack thereof).

True.

[Damaged89]

Texans have a Killer D, way ahead of what we have imo.

They were absolute garbage last year and look where they ended up. The jets defense wasn't dominant this year but I don't see why, with an impact draft and a smart FA signing or two, they couldn't be at least back where they were in 2010.

Unfortunately, the offense is almost certain to be awful so the above is probably a moot point.

[villain_the_foe]

And you are the one who thinks a change of OC will help him....good luck with that, sanchez cost jets 2 games by himself denver and Gints games,

When he has some competent coaches/coordinators around him I believe that it will change. I cant argue with your statement above at all. I simply think that us Jet Fans have been losers for so long that we are looking for immediate results with a young undeveloped QB and we're wildly over reacting. Its just not going to happen unless we get some competent coaches on this team, and thats the bottomline.

Sanchez may have lost 2 games by himself, but we lost 8 in total. And as for that Denver game, Sanchez offense had the lead before the Jets defense gave up 95 yards to Timothy Tebow, in which the final run Tebow runs all over the field for 20+ yards while Cro and Wilson couldnt get out of an endzone thats only 7 yards long to make the play. And though Sanchez didnt play well against the Giants, I didnt see that defense play well either. 99 yards, to broke tackles and out running Eric Smith obviously isnt Sanchez fault. Pool getting demolished by Bradshaw for the TD was on the defense simply being thrown around.

Sanchez played bad in both games, but I also seen our defense play bad in both games as well, and in which one of those games the Jets had the lead and our defense BLEW IT.

[Damaged89]

When he as some competent coaches/coordinators around him I believe that it will change. I cant argue with your statement above at all. I simply think that us Jet Fans have been losers for so long that we are looking for immediate results with a young undeveloped QB and we're wildly over reacting. Its just not going to happen unless we get some competent coaches on this team, and thats the bottomline.

Sanchez may have lost 2 games by himself, but we lost 8 in total. And as for that Denver game, Sanchez offense had the lead before the Jets defense gave up 95 yards to Timothy Tebow. And though Sanchez didnt play well against the Giants, I didnt see that defense play well either. 99 yards, to broke tackles and out running Eric Smith obviously is Sanchez fault. Pool getting demolished by Bradshaw for the TD was obviously Sanchez fault.

Sanchez played bad in both games, but I also seen our defense play bad in both games as well, and in which one of those games the Jets had the lead and our defense BLEW IT.

I'm too lazy to look up the points off turnovers in those games, but they are both undoubtedly on sanchez. If you're expecting the defense to hold teams under 13 points every game (not including the points that Sanchez spots the opposition off terrible pick 6s) you are going to be disappointed a whole lot.

[CTM]

lmao! You know what? With a schotty I can perfectly see your point of how a 5 yard slant takes longer to develop than a 40 yard dash 9 route. Trust me, I no longer have a point now that Schotty is gone. Now we can move forward with this offense.

I didn't say slant, i said crosses, drags or underneath routes ... particularly if the receiver is being bumped by corners/Lb'ers

[villain_the_foe]

I didn't say slant, i said crosses, drags or underneath routes ... particularly if the receiver is being bumped by corners/Lb'ers

you have no point lol. If the receivers are being bumped and the oline cant hold off a rush for sanchez to complete a 3 step drop then what do you call that?

[afosomf]

They were absolute garbage last year and look where they ended up. The jets defense wasn't dominant this year but I don't see why, with an impact draft and a smart FA signing or two, they couldn't be at least back where they were in 2010.

Unfortunately, the offense is almost certain to be awful so the above is probably a moot point.

Texans added Watt and Brooks reed and Jon Joseph( i wanted jets to grab him over namdi or cro) and demeco ryans was hurt with achilles and missed most of last yr.

Much Different Def and added wade as DC. Tanny wishes he could add players like this

[villain_the_foe]

I'm too lazy to look up the points off turnovers in those games, but they are both undoubtedly on sanchez. If you're expecting the defense to hold teams under 13 points every game (not including the points that Sanchez spots the opposition off terrible pick 6s) you are going to be disappointed a whole lot.

You took a very small portion of my entire comment. Im going to say it again. Sanchez may have lost 2 games single handedly (allegedly) but we lost 8 total games.

I dont expect our defense to hold every single team to under 13 points, however, I dont expect them to give up 95 yards and a ridiculous 8 minute 20 yard scramble to Timothy Tebow when the playoffs are on the line and our LBS and Corners are playing penis swords in the endzone.

I dont care about the stats because what I said before, stats only tell half of the story, and it tends to always sway to the side of the person telling the stats. Im talking about the outcome of the game. You dont give up 95 yards to the Denver broncos with your playoff hopes on the line. You dont give up 99 yards to Victor Cruz and make him look absolutely awesome doing it. I can care less what the stats say because stats will always exist in a bubble of just numbers and ratios. Stats can and will never show how we actually lost a game. It can give you an idea of who would probably win, but stats never translate to success or failure 100% of the time

We can say what we want, but before I blame the student, in this case Sanchez, I will blame the teachers such as the QB Coach, WR Coach, Oline Coach and offensive Coordinator.

Seeing what the Jets are doing this offseason with the coaching staff it looks like they get the point.

[Damaged89]

Texans added Watt and Brooks reed and Jon Joseph( i wanted jets to grab him over namdi or cro) and demeco ryans was hurt with achilles and missed most of last yr.

Much Different Def and added wade as DC. Tanny wishes he could add players like this

The point is if a historically bad defense can improve that much, we can go from eighth or whatever to top 5 again. Oh, and I think Rex>Wade as a defensive coach.

Your tannenbaum point is valid though.

[afosomf]

The point is if a historically bad defense can improve that much, we can go from eighth or whatever to top 5 again. Oh, and I think Rex>Wade as a defensive coach.

Your tannenbaum point is valid though.

Not sure if rexey is better than Wade, wade has a lights out Def. Much better than our 2009 Def

[CTM]

you have no point lol. If the receivers are being bumped and the oline cant hold off a rush for sanchez to complete a 3 step drop then what do you call that?

My point is that your point was nonsensical.. especially considering FO has stats that directly contradict what you are saying... maybe you should watch some other teams play, for perspective

[RutgersJetFan]

especially considering FO has stats that directly contradict what you are saying...

IF THOSE STATS WERE TRUE, THEN THE EYE TEST WOULD TELL ME DIFFERENT STUFF.

[villain_the_foe]

My point is that your point was nonsensical.. especially considering FO has stats that directly contradict what you are saying... maybe you should watch some other teams play, for perspective

Those stats arent contradictory to what im saying, because I've been saying all along to GET SANCHEZ SOME HELP!

He needs quarterback development and a competent coordinator (and a whole new rightside of the offensive line). I've been saying this for years on this site and a former QB has even come out and mentioned that QB's are not being developed the way they should be. And thats coming from a guy that watches more games (and teams) then you do.

Sanchez needs guidance and a strong playbook. You can call that nonsensical til you're blue in the face. The bottomline is that he's our QB and the kid has talent. When he receives that guidance and becomes an established QB in this league for the New York Jets or some other team who got the point, only then will I make sense to you Mr. Hindsight.

Im in no rush on that. I have patience.

[CTM]

Those stats arent contradictory to what im saying, because I've been saying all along to GET SANCHEZ SOME HELP!

He needs quarterback development and a competent coordinator (and a whole new rightside of the offensive line). I've been saying this for years on this site and a former QB has even come out and mentioned that QB's are not being developed the way they should be. And thats coming from a guy that watches more games then you do.

Sanchez needs guidance and a strong playbook. You can call that nonsensical til you're blue in the face. The bottomline is that he's our QB and the kid has talent. When he receives that guidance and becomes an established QB in this league for the New York Jets or some other team who got the point only then will I make sense to you Mr. Hindsight.

Im in no rush on that. I have patience.

no, you actually said that the pressure stats were bogus cause guys like rivers and eli throw deep more, those plays take longer to develop giving the defense more time to pressure him, whereas Sanchez always throws short, quick developing routes and he stil gets pressured.... what you implying is that Sanchez's line was much worse then all these other guys... which , as I said was debunked by the FO stats.. so now you've punted to the old argument about it being schotty's fault

villian the foe, charger fan, 2000...I'm in no rush on Leaf developing, I have patience..

lastly, I'm not saying he'll always sucked.. I said he has sucked.. you are confusing the two. My only prediction as to his future are that it's looking less and less likely he's every going to amount to anything.

[villain_the_foe]

no, you actually said that the pressure stats were bogus cause guys like rivers and eli throw deep more, those plays take longer to develop giving the defense more time to pressure him, whereas Sanchez always throws short, quick developing routes and he stil gets pressured.... what you implying is that Sanchez's line was much worse then all these other guys... which , as I said was debunked by the FO stats.. so now you've punted to the old argument about it being schotty's fault

villian the foe, charger fan, 2000...I'm in no rush on Leaf developing, I have patience..

lastly, I'm not saying he'll always sucked.. I said he has sucked.. you are confusing the two. My only prediction as to his future are that it's looking less and less likely he's every going to amount to anything.

I read the first sentence and I had to stop, and while typing this I seen your Leaf comment and had to laugh.

What I said was that the stats are telling half the story. I also mentioned the lack of protection in the first place from this Oline which you ignored. Go back and look at what I said. Besides, what im saying now im saying to YOU so read closely. Mark Sanchez needs a QB coach and an offensive coordinator with a strong playbook. He also needs to establish a chemistry with his targets which means getting WR's and actually keeping them and an oline who can do their f'ing job. Sanchez in three years has a better career than Ryan Leaf. Dont be a tool Mr. Hindsight.

[Pac]

OL sucked, Plax was wearing concrete Nikes, Holmes was a whiny bitch, Kerly was hurt, and Keller tried to catch multiple passes with his facemask.

I don't need fancy statzzz to tell me any of that.

[villain_the_foe]

OL sucked, Plax was wearing concrete Nikes, Holmes was a whiny bitch, Kerly was hurt, and Keller tried to catch multiple passes with his facemask.

I don't need fancy statzzz to tell me any of that.

No, you dont understand. Sanchez sucks and he's the reason why we lost games and didnt make the playoffs. The stats say so.

[SMC]

First off, I invented the word penningtologist, so don't try to put that evil on me.

Second, I didn't consider Chad a good QB. I was one of the first off that train too.

I'm talking about a guy who defenses at least have to respect. We haven't had that.

Brad Johnson was the last "good" QB to win a SB in 2002 and the only reason that happened was because Gruden had the Raider's playbook and that fool Callahan failed to change the name of the plays.

So on what evidence do you prop up your fantasy that a "good" QB will or wouldve won a SB with the Rex's Jets?

[Pac]

Brad Johnson was the last "good" QB to win a SB in 2002 and the only reason that happened was because Gruden had the Raider's playbook and that fool Callahan failed to change the name of the plays.

So on what evidence do you prop up your fantasy that a "good" QB will or wouldve won a SB with the Rex's Jets?

I don't consider Big Ben "elite"... in fact he's played like dog crap in multiple playoff games.

I think your hypothesis is flawed.

[SenorGato]

What in the **** is a strong playbook?