Get on the Nick Perry wagon.

[SenorGato]

Now. Great size, athleticism, explosiveness...well coached...disciplined...active...experienced...productive...a leader at SC...earns respect from his teammates through his leadership, production, and game...doesn't say much but is a good interview...

WTF is not to like? What's the difference between this guy and say Brian Orakpo or Willie McGinest as a 3-4 Olb prospect?

Perry at 16 ftw.

[Jetscode1]

Now. Great size, athleticism, explosiveness...well coached...disciplined...active...experienced...productive...a leader at SC...earns respect from his teammates through his leadership, production, and game...doesn't say much but is a good interview...

WTF is not to like? What's the difference between this guy and say Brian Orakpo or Willie McGinest as a 3-4 Olb prospect?

Perry at 16 ftw.

I'm not quite there yet...but he's getting some positive write-ups as of late...he'll also have to learn the OLB position...most people doubt Tanny has the sack to go there again.

[JayKwaz]

Not against Perry, or any of the other projected 3-4 OLB's in the draft that we have talked about in the first round. My question is why no love for Bruce Irvin? He had a great combine and even though he had a down season he can get to the QB. Also he could be had a lot later in the draft so we could improve other positions first.

[SenorGato]

Not against Perry, or any of the other projected 3-4 OLB's in the draft that we have talked about in the first round. My question is why no love for Bruce Irvin? He had a great combine and even though he had a down season he can get to the QB. Also he could be had a lot later in the draft so we could improve other positions first.

Irvin is Aaron Maybin if Maybin didn't trick people into drafting him in the first. He's small, not physical, and overall just not a very good NFL prospect.

[bitonti]

what's not to like:

1) doesn't have alot of pass rush moves, basically a speed edge rusher

2) doesn't produce all the time, he doesn't beat top talent (Jonathan Martin shut him down)

3) No experience standing up, would be a complete conversion

4) USC hasn't been kind to the Jets (Sanchez, McKnight etc).

[Jetscode1]

what's not to like:

1) doesn't have alot of pass rush moves, basically a speed edge rusher

2) doesn't produce all the time, he doesn't beat top talent (Jonathan Martin shut him down)

3) No experience standing up, would be a complete conversion

4) USC hasn't been kind to the Jets (Sanchez, McKnight etc).

Been reading some reports that suggest Donta Hightower could make a smooth transition to OLB in our 3-4. Thoughts?

[bitonti]

Been reading some reports that suggest Donta Hightower could make a smooth transition to OLB in our 3-4. Thoughts?

if the Jets took hightower I'd have absolutely no problem with that. He's a beast at ILB and yes at 4.6 260 he could also play OLB. Very very good player

and to clarify i like Nick perry (he's my #2 DE) i just wanted to answer the "whats not to like" question. every prospect has cons.

[SenorGato]

what's not to like:

1) doesn't have alot of pass rush moves, basically a speed edge rusher

2) doesn't produce all the time, he doesn't beat top talent (Jonathan Martin shut him down)

3) No experience standing up, would be a complete conversion

4) USC hasn't been kind to the Jets (Sanchez, McKnight etc).

1 - He gets that tag because he's by far the best speed rusher in this draft. OTOH if you've watched him you've seen a variety of moves. I've seen the spin, the swim, and the bullrush as well.

2 - I have that game. Martin didn't shut him down so much as Martin/DeCastro/Luck shut him down. It took a whole lot of effort on Stanford's part to shut him down. He still doesn't fail to impress there either...still shows off the abilities you want to see.

3 - We've gone through this a million times this offseason and I don't buy that this is a factor. When 3-4 teams stop drafting DEs in the first round to convert then this can become a real point.

4 - OTOH USC has put out some pretty damn good front 7 talent recently. Even that idiot Griffen put up some numbers last year.

I get what you're doing but of those I feel #2 and I guess #4 might have the most significance...Neither of which I find all that significant.

I'm even going to go ahead and say I'd take Perry over Ingram if I was a 3-4 team.

Know I wasn't asked but I like Hightower alot as an OLB or ILB in this D....He's much more Bryan Thomas than Upshaw is at OLB.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 - He gets that tag because he's by far the best speed rusher in this draft. OTOH if you've watched him you've seen a variety of moves. I've seen the spin, the swim, and the bullrush as well.

2 - I have that game. Martin didn't shut him down so much as Martin/DeCastro/Luck shut him down. It took a whole lot of effort on Stanford's part to shut him down. He still doesn't fail to impress there either...still shows off the abilities you want to see.

3 - We've gone through this a million times this offseason and I don't buy that this is a factor. When 3-4 teams stop drafting DEs in the first round to convert then this can become a real point.

4 - OTOH USC has put out some pretty damn good front 7 talent recently. Even that idiot Griffen put up some numbers last year.

I get what you're doing but of those I feel #2 and I guess #4 might have the most significance...Neither of which I find all that significant.

If people should have a gripe with USC of late it's with the offensive skill players, not the defense.

[SenorGato]

If people should have a gripe with USC of late it's with the offensive skill players, not the defense.

Yep. Their D guys are coming out with size, speed, and skill...it's good stuff.

[JonEJet]

I like Hightower....wouldn't mind that one at all

[derp]

Perry looks slow, stiff, and not very violent to me. I know he timed really well in the 40, and I can see it when he's running unblocked to the quarterback or across the line of scrimmage trying to chase down a runner. But when he's trying to change directions he looks really slow, and once somebody gets their hands on him he looks slow too. I know obviously linemen getting their hands on a guy slows them down, but doesn't have that pop on contact and disengage like I saw from Orakpo and a lot of good pass rushers. A lot of the sacks I've seen from Perry look like coverage sacks or like they're coming off of broken plays and not his initial pressure too.

He does get some nice pressure every once in awhile, seems like he has a solid motor, and obviously he's physically talented, but I don't see a sure thing either. Maybe Shawne Merriman in terms of lack of flexibility and with the size, strength, and speed, but again I don't see the violence. And even Merriman had a good short shuttle at his pro day 4.24, Perry's was awful at 4.66. To put that in perspective, Dontari Poe (who is an athletic freak obviously, but has like 75 pounds on Perry) ran a 4.56. It looks like only 7 defensive linemen ran slower times at the combine, all over 280 pounds, 4 of them over 300 pounds, and all but one (Quinton Coples) defensive tackles. Dude can only run in a straight line. He could be really good, has all the tools besides flexibility/change of direction and the motor is nice, and maybe a good defensive line coach teaches him how to disengage better and makes him into more of a monster. Right now though I think there's a few things not to like.

[bitonti]

To put that in perspective, Dontari Poe (who is an athletic freak obviously, but has like 75 pounds on Perry) ran a 4.56.

Poe is unlike any prospect I can remember. to be 350 and running a 4.8 and put up 44 reps is complete beast.

Whether he has any production at Memphis doesn't really matter, cause NT like him normally don't produce big stats (Ngata, Raji, Dareus 3-5 sack per year). You aren't drafting Poe to be Suh or Kevin Williams. he's like a super charged Terrence Cody or Vince Wilfork

if he gets out of the top 11 it would surprise me. that's how high his physical upside seems to be.

[SenorGato]

From our friend Aten, who has been mysteriously absent lately, via the work of Waldo from FootballsFutures:

Here's the complete list of 3-4 outside linebackers who have registered (Vert+3.5*Broad)*(Weight/Height)/3000 > 1.05 since 2005:

Merriman

Orakpo

Barwin

Woodley

Mark Anderson

Wake

Dontay Moch

Justin Houston

Nick Perry

Dude is not getting out of the first dozen picks, and I only say dozen because Merriman went 12. Most likely he's gone by ten, which sucks donkey balls for us.

OTOH it's looking more and more like Upshaw will fall in our lap for the taking.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

From our friend Aten, who has been mysteriously absent lately, via the work of Waldo from FootballsFutures:

Here's the complete list of 3-4 outside linebackers who have registered (Vert+3.5*Broad)*(Weight/Height)/3000 > 1.05 since 2005:

Merriman

Orakpo

Barwin

Woodley

Mark Anderson

Wake

Dontay Moch

Justin Houston

Nick Perry

Dude is not getting out of the first dozen picks, and I only say dozen because Merriman went 12. Most likely he's gone by ten, which sucks donkey balls for us.

OTOH it's looking more and more like Upshaw will fall in our lap for the taking.

We're in a good draft spot. Still within what I say would be the 2nd tier of elite prospects. I just hope we don't reach on Barron at 16. Not cause he can't be a good player for us, just because there's so much talent at more crucial positions for us to be had.

Edit: That's also a pretty damn fine list

[bitonti]

Merriman 1.12

Orakpo 1.13

Barwin 2.46

Woodley 2.46

Mark Anderson 5.159

Wake undrafted

Dontay Moch 3.66

Justin Houston 3.70

Dude is not getting out of the first dozen picks, and I only say dozen because Merriman went 12.

follow up question

why is Nick Perry a better prospect than all those guys? if he's going higher than 12?

also how many of those players went in the 2nd or 3rd round? or later? Is Perry a Merriman or a Moch?

i guess my point is, even with the great workout, being a tweener means he could fall through the cracks. It's likely he's on the board at 16. It's possible he's on the board at 47.

[SenorGato]

follow up question

why is Nick Perry a better prospect than all those guys? if he's going higher than 12?

also how many of those players went in the 2nd or 3rd round? or later? Is Perry a Merriman or a Moch?

i guess my point is, even with the great workout, being a tweener means he could fall through the cracks. It's likely he's on the board at 16. It's possible he's on the board at 47.

Nobody said that.

But anyway:

He's probably closer to a Merriman than a Moch given that he's bigger than Moch, heavier than Moch, played a bigger school than Moch...I'm guessing you picked Moch because he's the only one on that list who hasn't produced?...Less character concerns than Houston, who was also in a draft with JJ Watt, Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan, Quinn, Clayborn, Jordan, Sheard, Wilkerson, Heyward, Ayers, and Reed (last year's DL class >>>>This years)....more of a sure thing than Barwin, who was new to the whole defense thing when drafted....The closest thing to a bust in the bunch is Moch, who like Houston will only be a 2nd year player in 2012.

I doubt he falls through the cracks this year. There isn't enough pass rushers in this draft for that to happen. If he's there at 16 then I have trouble seeing them pass on a pass rusher with his kind of upside.

[bitonti]

I'm guessing you picked Moch because he's the only one on that list who hasn't produced?

i picked Moch cause his name also started with M and i thought it sounded good.

But seriously Mark Anderson is a good player, Cam Wake is a very good player, sometimes draft status and talent don't match up. Perry might be the dogs balls in the league but it doesn't mean he's an elite first round pick. in the end he's a bit of a tweener. i thought Justin Houston's character concerns were way over blown and thought he should be a late first, sometimes there's just not a demand for guys who don't fit a specific role.

side question Gato why do you latch on to guys that the team has basically no chance of drafting? Just to be contrary? I can certainly relate to that.

right now the Jets board at 16 looks to me like 1) Ingram 2) Upshaw 3) Hightower. whether that's who I want personally or not isn't relevant. It's probably who they want. I don't see any other names that the Jets front office will like more (other than names that should definitely be gone like Andrew Luck, Blackmon, TR, Cox and Poe)

the interesting thing about Hightower is that he can replace Scott or at 4.6 260 he can play OLB. a Hightower transition to OLB is far less risky than a perry transition. cause he played it before. Again we have gone over this but the Gholston pick seriously limits Tanny's taste for conversion.

Why is Nick Perry different than Gholston? both big football factory players with great workouts and 1 good year of production playing hand it the dirt DE. That's basically Gholston's profile.

I know what you are gonna say, that there are all these great 3-4 OLB in the league that used to play DE. the difference is those teams didn't get burned bad by Vernon Gholston in 2009.

[HessStation]

Hmm, think I'd probably take Hightower over Perry if both available. You could move him around but more to play ILB. Hightower just has more of a physical prescence to me which plays into Rex's style. I like both though.

[HessStation]

I'd be interested in a poll on who fan would rather have between Upshaw an Hightower. I also wonder who becomes the better NFL player. Systems and teams should have some say of course but interested none the less.

A little bit like Maualuga, Cushing from a few years ago...then Matthews becomes the bigger name go figure.

[SenorGato]

16th is not an elite pick and there's literally 0 chance of getting an elite player (unless Richardson or DeCastro fell).

side question Gato why do you latch on to guys that the team has basically no chance of drafting? Just to be contrary? I can certainly relate to that.

Not at all...Last year I was always about Heyward and then Wilkerson and both were sitting right there for us to take when our pick came along. The Jets weren't supposed to be able to get Kyle Wilson or Wilkerson, but there they were...though I wasn't huge on Wilson (I'm not so good with corners anyway). Do you get a kick out of deeming anyone either not worthy or long gone?

Which is it btw...he won't make it to 16 or he'll go well after that? Why is there on chance?

right now the Jets board at 16 looks to me like 1) Ingram 2) Upshaw 3) Hightower. whether that's who I want personally or not isn't relevant. It's probably who they want. I don't see any other names that the Jets front office will like more (other than names that should definitely be gone like Andrew Luck, Blackmon, TR, Cox and Poe)

Based on? You threw in that's how their board looks TO YOU and that it's PROBABLY who they want. We're not exactly working in a world of absolutes here...but I do know that Rex Ryan got his pass rushing stud in Baltimore (Suggs) and he and Pettine taught him how to be a LB....so it's not as if Perry is straight up out of the discussion for the hell of being out of the discussion. Maybe if those guys were clearly better prospects...

I've said the same thing about Hightower...Hell, I think I was saying it before most anyone was saying. I would really like him here.

Why is Nick Perry different than Gholston? both big football factory players with great workouts and 1 good year of production playing hand it the dirt DE. That's basically Gholston's profile.

Well first off Perry had two years of strong production...his freshman year and this year...then there's the fact that those are two completely different individuals being lazily compared based on one fact (two if you had mentioned that both came out as underclassmen)...USC has put out far better front 7 prospects in recent years than OSU...who's the best OSU front 7 player in the league right now drafted in the last 5 years? James L? They might be big name programs but there's a clear difference in which one you go to first for NFL talent.

[SenorGato]

Hmm, think I'd probably take Hightower over Perry if both available. You could move him around but more to play ILB. Hightower just has more of a physical prescence to me which plays into Rex's style. I like both though.

Hightower I like a sh*tton...I could not be mad if they picked him...Another ridiculously underrated player with great versatility and projectable everything as a pro. I've said it before and I'll say it again that I'd draft him over Upshaw for this D. Probably Perry too just because there's less worry about position change.

If they want a pass rusher..and they'd be smart to want that...then I'd probably go Perry.

[HessStation]

Hightower I like a sh*tton...I could not be mad if they picked him...Another ridiculously underrated player with great versatility and projectable everything as a pro. I've said it before and I'll say it again that I'd draft him over Upshaw for this D. Probably Perry too just because there's less worry about position change.

If they want a pass rusher..and they'd be smart to want that...then I'd probably go Perry.

Yeah all the more reason I want to strangle the fans who want to trade up this year. There will be plenty of talent to choose from.

[SenorGato]

Yeah all the more reason I want to strangle the fans who want to trade up this year. There will be plenty of talent to choose from.

Yeah all the more reason I want to strangle the fans who want to trade up this year. There will be plenty of talent to choose from.

Meh depending on the number of comp. picks they get I'd be find with a little playing around on draft day.

[bitonti]

Not at all...Last year I was always about Heyward and then Wilkerson

.who's the best OSU front 7 player in the league right now drafted in the last 5 years? James L? They might be big name programs but there's a clear difference in which one you go to first for NFL talent.

I believe Cam Heyward was the best OSU front 7 player in the last 5 years, And i also believe the Gholston pick meant he wasn't even on their board. Tanny couldn't take another OSU DE in rd 1 if he wanted to. He'd rather take a player from Temple, which is where Joe klecko came from.

Nick Perry obviously didn't come from Ohio State but then again the Sanchez/McKnight picks aren't exactly home runs. Yes they play different positions.

When I look at this Jets team I see a serious lack of SEC talent. Maybe this is the year they go big on the SEC. Cause they are running out of other football factories to choose from.

[SenorGato]

I believe Cam Heyward was the best OSU front 7 player in the last 5 years, And i also believe the Gholston pick meant he wasn't even on their board. Tanny couldn't take another OSU DE in rd 1 if he wanted to. He'd rather take a player from Temple, which is where Joe klecko came from.

Nick Perry obviously didn't come from Ohio State but then again the Sanchez/McKnight picks aren't exactly home runs. Yes they play different positions.

When I look at this Jets team I see a serious lack of SEC talent. Maybe this is the year they go big on the SEC. Cause they are running out of other football factories to choose from.

- No idea what the relevance of the first part is. Is this supposed to...hurt Perry in this analysis? I don't get it.

- Sanchez/McKnight are offense (and not even full out busts yet)...Pretty sure Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, and even Everson Griffen speak louder here.

- Bit, you can't be serious about that SEC thing. Who in the hell cares what CONFERENCE good players come from? How are they running out of football factories if they've been leaving the SEC untouched?

[dbatesman]

(Vert+3.5*Broad)*(Weight/Height)/3000 > 1.05

Do you have a link for more info on this formula? I know SackSEER weights vertical leap and short shuttle, but it's gotten mixed results.

[JohnnyHector]

Do you have a link for more info on this formula? I know SackSEER weights vertical leap and short shuttle, but it's gotten mixed results.

I think JPP single-handedly killed SackSEER.

[dbatesman]

I think JPP single-handedly killed SackSEER.

Deservedly so.

[SenorGato]

Do you have a link for more info on this formula? I know SackSEER weights vertical leap and short shuttle, but it's gotten mixed results.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439601

Sadly nothing about how he derived this...I could ask but I forgot my FF name, haven't posted on there since around when this thread came out. Maybe read through the thread?

Any link to SackSEER? I know I've heard of it but I've never looked into it.

[dbatesman]

http://www.footballs...ic.php?t=439601

Sadly nothing about how he derived this...I could ask but I forgot my FF name, haven't posted on there since around when this thread came out. Maybe read through the thread?

Cool, thanks.

Any link to SackSEER? I know I've heard of it but I've never looked into it.

http://footballoutsi...-lets-try-again

http://footballoutsi...pe-saw-sackseer

[bitonti]

.Pretty sure Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, and even Everson Griffen speak louder here.

if the Jets took those players I would agree.

it's like buying a car. If I buy Toyota and the last 2 models i bought were mediocre i won't buy another Toyota . If someone else got a great Toyota , that's great for them. still sucks for me. it doesn't matter if one is a car and the other is a truck (offense/defense) it's still a branding issue.

[bitonti]

- Bit, you can't be serious about that SEC thing. Who in the hell cares what CONFERENCE good players come from? How are they running out of football factories if they've been leaving the SEC untouched?

agree it shouldn't matter but it irks me... how the Jets can have more players from Maine than from the SEC.

aren't you a Mark Barron fan you should be rooting for the Jets to over come their SEC-ism

seriously Why did the Jets only have John Conner and Greg McElroy as SEC players on their 53 man from last year?

McElroy on IR hardly counts and the 1 other guy they have is one of the top 5 hardest hitters on the team. (Pace, Eric Smith, David Harris to name 3 others). probably the most violent player they have on offense is John Conner.

Im not saying all the SEC guys are great and you need a team full of em. But cmon. LSU and Bama were the 2 best teams in the nation. I

[HessStation]

Meh depending on the number of comp. picks they get I'd be find with a little playing around on draft day.

It would depend but under most circumstances I can consider me no likey.

[SenorGato]

if the Jets took those players I would agree.

it's like buying a car. If I buy Toyota and the last 2 models i bought were mediocre i won't buy another Toyota . If someone else got a great Toyota , that's great for them. still sucks for me. it doesn't matter if one is a car and the other is a truck (offense/defense) it's still a branding issue.

So what you're saying is that they should draft with fear in the guise of pseudo rationality?