T0mShane Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Here are the various scenarios and how they would play out without a new deal from a cap perspective: 2013- $9 million to remain on the team and play out contract 2014- $9 million in dead money if no new contract is signed before the 2013 Super Bowl 2013- $12 million in dead money to cut/trade before March 5 2014- $0 cap charge 2013- $5 million in dead money to cut trade after June 1, but before training camp 2014- $9 million in dead money 2013- $6 million in dead money to cut after training camp 2014- $9 million in dead money Almost any way you slice it that dead money is devastating if he can not be re-signed. It gives him tremendous leverage to name his price because the Jets cant afford that $9 million charge in 2014 unless they go into full rebuild and operate the year with all young guys. If it was me and assuming Revis plays really well again, Id be approaching his guys as soon as 2013 was complete and try to sign him to a 5 year extension. Because of the way contract valuations work you can make both sides somewhat happy. Say you give Revis a deal thats a 5 year/15 million extension, the real value the Jets will pay is 6 years at 13 million a year because he is also agreeing to honor the 2014 league year at his $3 million base. Every day the Jets wait that total number grows as does the cap charge, because of the bonuses in his contract. Thats not to say Id go that high, but you get the idea. There are also ways that they could minimize the backend pain of dead money there too and realistically make it a much shorter deal. If he wants to be paid a ridiculous amount of money Id probably explore trading him in 2013 before the league year gets underway and you owe him that roster bonus. If someone is willing to give up a 1 you have to take it at that point and at least get something for him without paying him another penny, even though it might mess up my cap. If the Jets dont mind paying him more cash then the better option is to trade after June 1 but before camp opens. The team will get some cap relief in 2013 that can be carried over to lessen the blow of the 9 million in dead money he would count for in 2014 under that scenario. The negative of that is Woody pays him an extra $2 million just to get cap benefits (which is kind of crazy) along with a draft pick. The other option is to give him the designation of a June 1 cut in 2013. This is a much more complex situation. That would be a rough move to watch play out, though financially it would be in the teams best interest. The way that works is you name the player a June 1 cut. In the interim he counts on your books ($9 million in cap) meaning you get no cap relief for free agency. The fans would have to watch their star sign with another team while the Jets could do nothing in free agency because of the cap. But they would not have to pay him a dime and the way the cap would work post June 1 would be as follows: 2013- $3 million dead cap 2014- $9 million dead cap That frees us $6 million off the Jets 2013 books which you would simply earmark for 2014 making the net cap effect of cutting Revis $3 million and $3 million. There is no way you could sell that explanation to the media or the fans because its way too involved to explain. They would get killed for bad cap management dictating decisions when its actually a good cap move, but a poor personnel decision since you get nothing in return. I dont think I would go that route because it would probably destroy whatever good will the team had built up with the fans these last few years. Better off Linning him and painting him as a greedy SOB that would destroy the long term financial future of the team by demanding to be paid way outside of the normal number put on his position and then point to all the team making bad choices (Raiders with Aso) and how it led to bad seasons. Jesus, man. Thanks. I had no idea how hamstrung the Jets were with this contract. Pretty dire, all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Jesus, man. Thanks. I had no idea how hamstrung the Jets were with this contract. Pretty dire, all things considered. No way, man. Tannenbaum completely hoodwinked Revis with those three phantom years at the end of the deal. Pure brain matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 No way, man. Tannenbaum completely hoodwinked Revis with those three phantom years at the end of the deal. Pure brain matter. Ha. You know how I enjoy a good Tannenbaum foible, but this is too depressing to celebrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Ha. You know how I enjoy a good Tannenbaum foible, but this is too depressing to celebrate. Honestly, if he cornered himself into signing Revis for another five years or so, I'm okay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Well this is now the most depressing thread ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Jesus, man. Thanks. I had no idea how hamstrung the Jets were with this contract. Pretty dire, all things considered. yeah it's such a burden having the league's best defender on the team if only the Jets had 53 mediocre players, they could pay them all the veteran's minimum and never have cap problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 No way, man. Tannenbaum completely hoodwinked Revis with those three phantom years at the end of the deal. Pure brain matter. I dont think anyone ever said that. It was the only way to ensure Revis came back to the team in 2010 at the start of the season. The contract Revis wanted would have hamstrung the Jets for a much longer period of time and the only middle ground capwise was what they did. If Revis reports and plays out the year the decision worked for the short term. The problem really was Rex. Tannenbaum was prepared to force Revis to sit out the season. Rex didnt think they could win without him so he pushed the issue. If you got the Rex Ryan of 2012 in 2010 this wouldnt even be a discussion right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I dont think anyone ever said that. It was the only way to ensure Revis came back to the team in 2010 at the start of the season. The contract Revis wanted would have hamstrung the Jets for a much longer period of time and the only middle ground capwise was what they did. If Revis reports and plays out the year the decision worked for the short term. The problem really was Rex. Tannenbaum was prepared to force Revis to sit out the season. Rex didnt think they could win without him so he pushed the issue. If you got the Rex Ryan of 2012 in 2010 this wouldnt even be a discussion right now. Those extra years were sold to be this awesome holdout prevention move. Instead, all they really were was a short term cap savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The problem really was Rex. Tannenbaum was prepared to force Revis to sit out the season. Rex didnt think they could win without him so he pushed the issue. If you got the Rex Ryan of 2012 in 2010 this wouldnt even be a discussion right now. Whether Rex says it or not, it's common knowledge that they couldn't win without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 So what are the chances that Tannenbaum takes the initiative and has a new deal for Revis before next season when he's all but guaranteed to hold out? #TanMEbaum$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Whether Rex says it or not, it's common knowledge that they couldn't win without him. Yeah, except for the whole part of the season when they did win without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Those numbers are pretty damming, but I have trust Tanny knows what he is doing with the cap (if anything, his criticism is with talent, not accounting/money). I have a feeling this whole deal gets restructured next year. I think that was the plan all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Those extra years were sold to be this awesome holdout prevention move. Instead, all they really were was a short term cap savings. I dont ever remember that as being sold that way. They were there for cap relief the whole time. The holdout protection was just an added benefit because of his track record. Clearly most of the media forgot about the holdout clauses, because when Cimini started writing it nobody picked up on it as a deterrent, so it couldnt have been that big a deal. Everyone focused on the base salary figures he was set to earn in 2012 and 2013 even when he signed the "band aid" contract. Eventually they started to cover it again, but more as Revis doesnt care about that clause. Now its being written as a big reason along with the fines as to why he is going to report to camp on time. Maybe you are thinking of the points system from the rookie contract that came after holdout number 1. That was sold as a genius move by the Jets. In hindsight it wasnt. They would have been better off with a straight five year contract with normal salaries and the standard levels of protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Yeah, except for the whole part of the season when they did win without him. Seriously. For at least the first half of 2010 Revis was a combination of out of shape, hurt (because of being out of shape), or playing like crap (because of being out of shape and hurt). Revis is without a doubt a great player, but I don't buy for a second that this team can't survive without him. I think it would be the best case scenario for all parties for them to be able to work out a new deal next offseason without any drama attached to it, but I think the potential cap issues are likely to be an even greater concern / motivator than this supposed inability of the Jets to survive without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Maybe you are thinking of the points system from the rookie contract that came after holdout number 1. That was sold as a genius move by the Jets. In hindsight it wasnt. They would have been better off with a straight five year contract with normal salaries and the standard levels of protection. While that contract was also stupid and was the prime reason Revis held out as a rookie, no, I was thinking about those phantom years. Here's a couple links referring to the "holdout clause." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/06/holdout-clause-in-revis-deal-likely-wouldnt-prevent-a-holdout/ http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/1557/the-numbers-on-revis-contract http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/09/the_darrelle_revis_contract_br.html I don't see any articles from the time referring to those additional years as "cap relief." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Nonsense. I give Tannenbaum credit when it's due. Nonsense. I give Tannenbaum credit when it's due. Guess I didn't log in that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 While that contract was also stupid and was the prime reason Revis held out as a rookie, no, I was thinking about those phantom years. Here's a couple links referring to the "holdout clause." http://profootballta...vent-a-holdout/ http://espn.go.com/b...-revis-contract http://www.nj.com/je...ontract_br.html I don't see any articles from the time referring to those additional years as "cap relief." Other than Cimini not one of those articles had a takeaway of the awesomeness of the holdout clause, and even his wasnt the major takeaway which was Revis didnt get what he wanted but he got close.. Jennys takeaway was that its a 4 year intermediary deal to get to a final contract later on. Florios takeaway is that the voids dont scare Revis. Again I dont see where that is selling the deal on the genius of a 7 year contract with voids. All of those articles deal with 4 year cash flows, which is how the deal is looked at by everyone. Sure people mentioned it but never was it the center of the deal and how the Jets spun the deal as a positive for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 this is all gonna be moot when the Jets give Revis a new deal before next season. And he deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Yeah, except for the whole part of the season when they did win without him. Revis started week 1 and they lost by 1 point to the ravens. He started week 2 and they beat the Pats (he left that game midway through with the hammy) he missed week 3 and week 4 both divisional wins against bad Dolphins and Bills teams. He was back for Minny week 5. so to review the "whole part of the season" was 2 weeks. And that's not the point. they can't really beat playoff teams without Revis. having #24 in the lineup boosts the defense by about 10 slots. they are a top 5 defense with him, they are average without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Revis started week 1 and they lost by 1 point to the ravens. He started week 2 and they beat the Pats (he left that game midway through with the hammy) he missed week 3 and week 4 both divisional wins against bad Dolphins and Bills teams. He was back for Minny week 5. so to review the "whole part of the season" was 2 weeks. And that's not the point. they can't really beat playoff teams without Revis. having #24 in the lineup boosts the defense by about 10 slots. they are a top 5 defense with him, they are average without him. So wait, now we're crediting a team-wide performance to a freakin' CORNER? Come on, you can't be serious. How about instead of talking about how the team performed at the start of 2010, we talk about how he did, which was like complete crap. You do realize that Revis nearly single-handedly lost that Minny game because of his god awful play, right? Or how about the fact that after Moss beat Revis' ass in the first half of that Pats game, Cro shut him down in the second half? Don't get me wrong, Revis is absolutely a great CB, but the truth is he was more of a hindrance than a help to the Jets in the first half of 2010 and yet the team managed to do just fine anyway, and that's not to mention that both Cro and Wilson are far better players today than they were then. If they can work out a deal to keep him without having to ridiculously overpay him and subsequently negatively impact the rest of the team than that's great, but let's not pretend like they can't possibly survive without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Revis started week 1 and they lost by 1 point to the ravens. He started week 2 and they beat the Pats (he left that game midway through with the hammy) he missed week 3 and week 4 both divisional wins against bad Dolphins and Bills teams. He was back for Minny week 5. so to review the "whole part of the season" was 2 weeks. And that's not the point. they can't really beat playoff teams without Revis. having #24 in the lineup boosts the defense by about 10 slots. they are a top 5 defense with him, they are average without him. They were losing to the Pats by I believe 10 in that week 2 game. He was beat badly by Moss on a long TD reception when he pulled up with the hammy. Cro switched onto Moss the 2nd half and he didn't have another catch the whole game, and Brady was intercepted twice throwing Moss's way. We came back and won that game, without Revis. Imagine that. He started week 5 and if I remember correctly played like crap for 2 weeks before he finally got back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 So wait, now we're crediting a team-wide performance to a freakin' CORNER? Come on, you can't be serious. I am serious and don't call me Shirley. I know jets fans would rather Revis be a quarterback but that's not the hand the Jets were dealt. In related news how does Sanchez get 20+ mil extension for sucking (and few complain) but Revis can't get a new deal? Revis earns his money. He's earned Mario Williams type of money. And even tho he's not a DE or on the open market he should be paid like what he is: the best defender in the league. We shouldn't begrudge him for being the best Jet since Namath. I hate how we have threads about how Kenrick Ellis or Matt Slauson are warriors but screw Revis. Jets fans don't seem to realize Revis is a HOF caliber player in his prime. Paying him should be a very easy decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 They were losing to the Pats by I believe 10 in that week 2 game. He was beat badly by Moss on a long TD reception when he pulled up with the hammy. the Moss catch made it 14-7. Regardless the team needs Revis to win. Rex knew it. That's not debatable. You want to prove that the Jets can be a playoff team without him, I'd love to see you try. the 2nd half of week 3 and weeks 4 and 5 doesn't prove that the Jets are a great team without Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I am serious and don't call me Shirley. I know jets fans would rather Revis be a quarterback but that's not the hand the Jets were dealt. In related news how does Sanchez get 20+ mil extension for sucking (and few complain) but Revis can't get a new deal? Revis earns his money. He's earned Mario Williams type of money. And even tho he's not a DE or on the open market he should be paid like what he is: the best defender in the league. We shouldn't begrudge him for being the best Jet since Namath. I hate how we have threads about how Kenrick Ellis or Matt Slauson are warriors but screw Revis. Jets fans don't seem to realize Revis is a HOF caliber player in his prime. Paying him should be a very easy decision to make. There's countless number of differences between Revis' situation and the ones you're trying to compare it to. For starters, Mark Sanchez is a QB. Besides, plenty of people have blasted him and that contract endlessly, I'm not sure what you've been reading. That contract was also designed to give immediate cap relief in exchange for doing little else but promising Sanchez one more year than he was already sure to be getting. Kenrick Ellis and Matt Slauson's contracts are not only anything but cap-crippling, those two combined are getting paid next to nothing compared to Revis, so I'm not sure what there is to even compare. And lastly, none of those three have done the one thing Revis catches more heat for than anything, holding out. Combined, those three haven't held out once, while Revis has already done so twice and threatened a third time. the Moss catch made it 14-7. Regardless the team needs Revis to win. Rex knew it. That's not debatable. You want to prove that the Jets can be a playoff team without him, I'd love to see you try. the 2nd half of week 3 and weeks 4 and 5 doesn't prove that the Jets are a great team without Revis. What are you talking about? That is absolutely, by definition, extraordinarily debatable. Again, you ignore the fact that he played like crap even when on the field early in the 2010 season and it didn't impact the Jets a whole lot. The Jets are of course better with him than without him, but there's even less evidence out there to support the idea that they can't survive without him than there is that they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 the Moss catch made it 14-7. Regardless the team needs Revis to win. Rex knew it. That's not debatable. You want to prove that the Jets can be a playoff team without him, I'd love to see you try. the 2nd half of week 3 and weeks 4 and 5 doesn't prove that the Jets are a great team without Revis. Whats so hard for you to understand? The fact that we have won games without Darelle Revis playing in them proves we can win games without Darelle Revis playing in them. That clear anything up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Trading Revis is an insane notion. Not really. You could get two number one picks and a good player for him. If not more. I'm not saying trade him of course, but a great org like the Steelers know how NOT to be held hostage by players.We should look to emulate that. If he's being a prick, get rid of him and take the best of the many offers that would come in for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Not really. You could get two number one picks and a good player for him. If not more. I'm not saying trade him of course, but a great org like the Steelers know how NOT to be held hostage by players.We should look to emulate that. If he's being a prick, get rid of him and take the best of the many offers that would come in for him. You'd never get that. And what's worse, it wouldn't be close to fair value, anyway. The team that trades for him would also have to deal with the oh so horrible ordeal of keeping him contractually happy. That will drive his trade price down. Especially if the Jets are unloading him because they're in financial distress. Jet fans don't seem to understand what the team has in Revis. This is arguably the best defensive player in the NFL. Probably the best CB in the league's history. You don't trade him for a handful of magic beans (which is all that draft picks are). You work out the best deal you can to keep him -at the very least- thru his prime, because you'll never get fair value in a trade for him. It's something of a problem, but it's a good problem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 You'd never get that. And what's worse, it wouldn't be close to fair value, anyway. The team that trades for him would also have to deal with the oh so horrible ordeal of keeping him contractually happy. That will drive his trade price down. Especially if the Jets are unloading him because they're in financial distress. Jet fans don't seem to understand what the team has in Revis. This is arguably the best defensive player in the NFL. Probably the best CB in the league's history. You don't trade him for a handful of magic beans (which is all that draft picks are). You work out the best deal you can to keep him -at the very least- thru his prime, because you'll never get fair value in a trade for him. It's something of a problem, but it's a good problem to have. Perhaps, but other Jets fans don't seem to realize that he doesn't deserve to be put up on this pedestal they have placed him on either. By all means, the Jets should keep him long term if they can, but the position he plays isn't anywhere near important enough nor has enough of an impact to let the contract control the future actions of your franchise. There's simply no position in football outside of QB that's worth putting that much investment into. If the Jets trade him, it won't be because of some amazing deal they're getting in return, it will be because they've already decided he's not worth to them what it would take to keep him and so they'd rather move a year early and get a return than wait another year and get nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 the Moss catch made it 14-7. Regardless the team needs Revis to win. Rex knew it. That's not debatable. You want to prove that the Jets can be a playoff team without him, I'd love to see you try. the 2nd half of week 3 and weeks 4 and 5 doesn't prove that the Jets are a great team without Revis. The Jets are 2.5-0 without Revis. There's a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 You'd never get that. And what's worse, it wouldn't be close to fair value, anyway. The team that trades for him would also have to deal with the oh so horrible ordeal of keeping him contractually happy. That will drive his trade price down. Especially if the Jets are unloading him because they're in financial distress. Jet fans don't seem to understand what the team has in Revis. This is arguably the best defensive player in the NFL. Probably the best CB in the league's history. You don't trade him for a handful of magic beans (which is all that draft picks are). You work out the best deal you can to keep him -at the very least- thru his prime, because you'll never get fair value in a trade for him. It's something of a problem, but it's a good problem to have. Let me make sure everyone understands that I want to keep Revis. I love having him here. The problem I have is the routine BS that surrounds him with holdout crap (although this one I believe to be 90% the result of a bored media). We got 2 #1 picks for Keyshawn Johnson who was little more than a reliable possession WR. Loved him as I did, it was smart to move him. There are always suitors with stars in their eyes. Getting a name like Revis for a team who has a problem selling tickets and who's salary situation is not as tight as the Jets, is a very realistic possibility. Good point about the magic beans. I actually feel similarly concerning draft picks, but the truth is that sometimes the really good org's cut ties with great players when they start to become a problem for team unity whether it be $ or otherwise. Look at the Steelers. Even the Pats with Seymore. If belly could draft more solidly, he would be an absolute genius. Every single year they seem to have more picks than anyone else and are always near the top. Like I said, I'm not on the "get rid of Revis" campaign trail, but I am also not on the "keep Revis at all costs" side either. It's more than realistic to think Revis attracts two #1 picks and then some. Maybe even a top flight CB as well. Value shmalue. He's a name and will sell tickets. That's worth more than we think sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Rot Him Let! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 We got 2 #1 picks for Keyshawn Johnson who was little more than a reliable possession WR. Loved him as I did, it was smart to move him. Keyshawn got his ring. Johnny Abe, Shaun Ellis, Chad and Anthony Becht did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The Jets are 2.5-0 without Revis. There's a debate. using that math the Jets should cut Revis and then go undefeated, forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Keyshawn got his ring. Johnny Abe, Shaun Ellis, Chad and Anthony Becht did not. using that math the Jets should cut Revis and then go undefeated, forever. The unintentional comedy of these two posts being back to back really is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Keyshawn got his ring. Johnny Abe, Shaun Ellis, Chad and Anthony Becht did not. I know that already. I'm a Jet fan. I know every single former Jets player who got a ring elsewhere. Are you saying Keyshawn was the reason that happened? The point was if KJ can warrant two number one picks than so can Revis. Not that we would do anything with the picks or that Revis wouldn't win a ring elsewhere. Just a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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