This team is SOFT.

[SMC]

Hence why we should just start Tebow all ready.

I'm hoping for that because it will be high comedy.

[SoFlaJets]

This.

Look at the bright side OP, if this were posted up at JI there would be 11 guys already who would have responded with one word; DUMP...oh yea, and I agree with you

[jetsjetsjetss]

Yes that's why they have won many games and a few SB's in the last few years. And by the way they kicked our asses last year.

theyve won many games and killed us because they have a hall of famer one of best qbs of all time leading them? I thought that point was obvious. There defense however has been awful or they would have won more.

[Integrity28]

Look at the bright side OP, if this were posted up at JI there would be 11 guys already who would have responded with one word; DUMP...oh yea, and I agree with you

So true.

Thanks dude.

[JiFtheOracle]

Is there any chances for teams that are "soft" in week 2, to get "hard" deeper into the season?

[shawn306]

Is there any chances for teams that are "soft" in week 2, to get "hard" deeper into the season?

Yes: They are called the 2011 New York Giants

[stoicsentry]

Is there any chances for teams that are "soft" in week 2, to get "hard" deeper into the season?

Yes, requires an upgrade to the cheerleading squad.

[Jet27]

Yes, requires an upgrade to the cheerleading squad.

Excellent

[Jet27]

theyve won many games and killed us because they have a hall of famer one of best qbs of all time leading them? I thought that point was obvious. There defense however has been awful or they would have won more.

Yes...

[BroadwayJoe12]

Yes that's why they have won many games and a few SB's in the last few years. And by the way they kicked our asses last year.

Patriots haven't won a superbowl for the better part of a decade. The newer Brady-led patriots are the epitome of a soft team. You're arguing on both sides here: you say we're soft and think we haven't been constructed properly, but then you praise a team that is one of the softest teams out there. Do you even see the irony before you hit enter?

[Jet27]

Patriots haven't won a superbowl for the better part of a decade. The newer Brady-led patriots are the epitome of a soft team. You're arguing on both sides here: you say we're soft and think we haven't been constructed properly, but then you praise a team that is one of the softest teams out there. Do you even see the irony before you hit enter?

I think your misunderstanding me or I wasn't clear but in any event, I would love to be as soft as the Patriots, all they do is win haha. Come on man please. I don't think the Pats are soft. I think the PATS are ****en real good. I wish our Jets were as good as the Pats. But we have a top 5 defense so we must be good statistically right? Give me a break.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I think your misunderstanding me or I wasn't clear but in any event, I would love to be as soft as the Patriots, all they do is win haha. Come on man please. I don't think the Pats are soft. I think the PATS are ****en real good. I wish our Jets were as good as the Pats. But we have a top 5 defense so we must be good statistically right? Give me a break.

I think you're misunderstanding me; I think the patriots are soft as the mods' johnsons when looking at a woman. My point was that criticizing us for being soft and praising other teams for being tough, yet mentioning you'd want to be like the patriots, who are by all measures a soft team, is fairly ironic. Bottom line, this "soft/hard" is a qualitative measurement that people use to make a point, knowing there's no quantitative data to support it. This is the f**king NFL, the most brutal sport played by the most insane physical freaks you can find out there; the majority of the players are not soft, I don't care what the Ape says.

[neckdemon]

dude I thought you didn't like 6th grade nicknames?

bathroomburger is a good one imo,

[Integrity28]

Is there any chances for teams that are "soft" in week 2, to get "hard" deeper into the season?

This has been covered in the thread. I believe we made 2 off-season acquisitions, Tebow and Landry, that have the personality and guts to change this teams overall character. For now, this is the exact same team as last year, with the same character flaws - in time, I hope to see them transition away from being the chest thumping blowhards who when put to a true text they curl up in a ball until it's over then they come out talking again.

I don't know what about this you don't understand. This team has the gutless character of a mouthy wanna-be bully - they sound good, look good on paper but when someone bigger and stronger stands up to them, they wilt.

I'm hoping that changes over time with guys like Landry and Tebow in the locker room. There is a stark contrast between adding guys like them, and guys like Holmes and Plaxico.

[Integrity28]

I think you're misunderstanding me; I think the patriots are soft as the mods' johnsons when looking at a woman. My point was that criticizing us for being soft and praising other teams for being tough, yet mentioning you'd want to be like the patriots, who are by all measures a soft team, is fairly ironic. Bottom line, this "soft/hard" is a qualitative measurement that people use to make a point, knowing there's no quantitative data to support it. This is the f**king NFL, the most brutal sport played by the most insane physical freaks you can find out there; the majority of the players are not soft, I don't care what the Ape says.

Clearly you have a firm grasp on context.

The Jets are soft in the context of NFL teams. Meaning, they are one of the many teams in the league that doesn't play hard-nosed football. Some people call this the difference between a finesse team (where everything looks great as long as they don't get roughed up) and a smashmouth team. These terms have been around the league forever... how can you possibly not grasp this?

I understand if you don't think the Jets are a finesse team, but the proof is in their performance. So I'd say you are in denial if anything. Nobody wants their team to be the finesse team. BUT that is what we've got here... despite anything Rex might say to the contrary. Words don't define this team, action does.

[#27TheDominator]

Clearly you have a firm grasp on context.

The Jets are soft in the context of NFL teams. Meaning, they are one of the many teams in the league that doesn't play hard-nosed football. Some people call this the difference between a finesse team (where everything looks great as long as they don't get roughed up) and a smashmouth team. These terms have been around the league forever... how can you possibly not grasp this?

I understand if you don't think the Jets are a finesse team, but the proof is in their performance. So I'd say you are in denial if anything. Nobody wants their team to be the finesse team. BUT that is what we've got here... despite anything Rex might say to the contrary. Words don't define this team, action does.

Finesse? You are right. The entire thread goes over my head.

fi·nesse (f-ns)

n.

1. Refinement and delicacy of performance, execution, or artisanship.

2. Skillful, subtle handling of a situation; tactful, diplomatic maneuvering

Nah. I still don't see it...

3. A method of leading up to a tenace, as in bridge, in order to prevent an opponent from winning the trick with an intermediate card.

Nope.

4. A stratagem in which one appears to decline an advantage.

I SEE IT NOW!!!!!

[BroadwayJoe12]

Clearly you have a firm grasp on context.

The Jets are soft in the context of NFL teams. Meaning, they are one of the many teams in the league that doesn't play hard-nosed football. Some people call this the difference between a finesse team (where everything looks great as long as they don't get roughed up) and a smashmouth team. These terms have been around the league forever... how can you possibly not grasp this?

I understand if you don't think the Jets are a finesse team, but the proof is in their performance. So I'd say you are in denial if anything. Nobody wants their team to be the finesse team. BUT that is what we've got here... despite anything Rex might say to the contrary. Words don't define this team, action does.

I have a firm grasp on context. Like contextually, this whole thread is just one person's agenda-driven forum to use a qualitative measure to depict our team and when anyone disagrees with him, he can point out they are wrong, since there's no single quantitative data to back any of what he's saying up. Contextually, you seem to fail as well; it's the same reason you cherry pick posts to respond to and don't offer any explanation how Bart Scott could be considered soft, when he's routinely smashing helmets with OGs and OTs that outweight him by 40+ lbs. Unless of course you are just making the assumption that slow and ineffective equates to soft, then sure, I guess just because Bart is no longer the player he once was, his hardness has turned to softness.

[JiFtheOracle]

This has been covered in the thread. I believe we made 2 off-season acquisitions, Tebow and Landry, that have the personality and guts to change this teams overall character. For now, this is the exact same team as last year, with the same character flaws - in time, I hope to see them transition away from being the chest thumping blowhards who when put to a true text they curl up in a ball until it's over then they come out talking again.

I don't know what about this you don't understand. This team has the gutless character of a mouthy wanna-be bully - they sound good, look good on paper but when someone bigger and stronger stands up to them, they wilt.

I'm hoping that changes over time with guys like Landry and Tebow in the locker room. There is a stark contrast between adding guys like them, and guys like Holmes and Plaxico.

But Landry is the definition of what you called soft. I think you're clueless.

[FloridaJetsFan]

I had to drop an OP this morning after I had my coffee and it was kinda hard - is that the same thing?

[Integrity28]

I have a firm grasp on context. Like contextually, this whole thread is just one person's agenda-driven forum to use a qualitative measure to depict our team and when anyone disagrees with him, he can point out they are wrong, since there's no single quantitative data to back any of what he's saying up. Contextually, you seem to fail as well; it's the same reason you cherry pick posts to respond to and don't offer any explanation how Bart Scott could be considered soft, when he's routinely smashing helmets with OGs and OTs that outweight him by 40+ lbs. Unless of course you are just making the assumption that slow and ineffective equates to soft, then sure, I guess just because Bart is no longer the player he once was, his hardness has turned to softness.

LMAO. I'm supposed to respond to every single post in this thread now? I didn't cherry-pick anything, I do my best.

This thread is about Rex selling the fans on a tough, smashmouth team - and delivering a team that folds under pressure, and can't function when they get hit (which is what most NFL fans call a finesse team, like the Rams were under Vermeil). The character of the team is not what we've been sold on. It's not my agenda, it's my epiphany. I'm only now really coming into this realization.

So, it's not about every individual on the team. It's about the whole. It's about Rex's sales pitch versus his fulfillment.

Bart is a hard-nosed player... but he's a hard-nosed player that seems to disappear in big games, and make promises he can't back up. Like "can't wait". He's plenty like-able, and he's certainly not the guy I'd point to as part of the nucleus for this team's weak stature. The problem, imo, seems to stem from the unconfident and uncommitted like Sanchez and Holmes. I'm sure there are "camps" within the locker room that emulate different character traits... I think the overwhelming majority emulates this "soft" or "finesse" or "weak of heart" character.

[Integrity28]

But Landry is the definition of what you called soft. I think you're clueless.

I called the team soft. Then I made the analogy comparing the team to a mouthy punk. Meaning the team mouth's off until it gets slapped around and then it curls up in a ball. I didn't mean every single individual on it... I humanized the character of the team and spoke about IT as though it was an individual.

You misinterpreted this.... and ran with it you boob. I've been telling you all thread you were missing my point. You just aren't worth the trouble of exhaustive explanation because I know it'd be a waste of time trying to get you to think.

[Jet27]

I think you're misunderstanding me; I think the patriots are soft as the mods' johnsons when looking at a woman. My point was that criticizing us for being soft and praising other teams for being tough, yet mentioning you'd want to be like the patriots, who are by all measures a soft team, is fairly ironic. Bottom line, this "soft/hard" is a qualitative measurement that people use to make a point, knowing there's no quantitative data to support it. This is the f**king NFL, the most brutal sport played by the most insane physical freaks you can find out there; the majority of the players are not soft, I don't care what the Ape says.

I got it already...trust me. hahaha

[Integrity28]

Finesse? You are right. The entire thread goes over my head.

fi·nesse (f-ns)

n.

1. Refinement and delicacy of performance, execution, or artisanship.

2. Skillful, subtle handling of a situation; tactful, diplomatic maneuvering

Nah. I still don't see it...

3. A method of leading up to a tenace, as in bridge, in order to prevent an opponent from winning the trick with an intermediate card.

Nope.

4. A stratagem in which one appears to decline an advantage.

I SEE IT NOW!!!!!

Okay. So you've never heard a football team called soft or finesse before. At this point, should I conclude you are trying to troll me? Or are you really a life-long football fan that has no grasp on this?

[Jet27]

bathroomburger is a good one imo,

Absolutely!

[Jetsfan80]

I think the overwhelming majority emulates this "soft" or "finesse" or "weak of heart" character.

Landry

Pouha

DeVito

Scott

Pace

Revis

Mangold

Tebow

Ellis

Smith

Brick

Conner

Harris

Thomas

McIntyre

Moore

Howard

Slauson

None of those guys seem to me to be "weak of heart". All are physical players who go about their business for the most part.

You pointed to two easy targets, Sanchez and Holmes. I may not think highly of Sanchez as a player, but you can't deny his physical toughness. He's a mopey bitch but he can take a hit. Holmes, fine, you've got me there. Him and Cromartie are pussies.

[JiFtheOracle]

I called the team soft. Then I made the analogy comparing the team to a mouthy punk. Meaning the team mouth's off until it gets slapped around and then it curls up in a ball. I didn't mean every single individual on it... I humanized the character of the team and spoke about IT as though it was an individual.

You misinterpreted this.... and ran with it you boob. I've been telling you all thread you were missing my point. You just aren't worth the trouble of exhaustive explanation because I know it'd be a waste of time trying to get you to think.

You dont have a point. You called a team soft for losing to the Steelers at their home opener which they havent lost in 10 years. Every team in the league is soft by your definition.

[Integrity28]

I think you're misunderstanding me; I think the patriots are soft as the mods' johnsons when looking at a woman. My point was that criticizing us for being soft and praising other teams for being tough, yet mentioning you'd want to be like the patriots, who are by all measures a soft team, is fairly ironic. Bottom line, this "soft/hard" is a qualitative measurement that people use to make a point, knowing there's no quantitative data to support it. This is the f**king NFL, the most brutal sport played by the most insane physical freaks you can find out there; the majority of the players are not soft, I don't care what the Ape says.

Also, it isn't a qualitative measurement. It is an adjective that implies certain tendencies that a TEAM has.

It is not a generalized description of what it takes for individuals to play at the NFL level, which seems to be the ridiculous point you are trying to make. Everyone, EVERYONE, knows that NFL players are tough SOBs, even the cry-babies are. This thread isn't about making the individuals. It is about the character of the team, the TEAM's tendencies, and stature, when confronted with certain situations.

This Jets team, by and large, curls up in a ball when things don't go their way. Unless everything flows perfectly, they almost always fall apart fantastically. It is very rare that the Jets just play a close one and lose. Sunday would have been no big deal IF it had ended 17-10 or something like that. However, because we got man-handled our offense COMPLETELY disappeared. It is one thing to struggle, it is another to stop functioning completely. Which is how it goes with our Jets the past few years. No tenacity. Deer in headlights and tantrums and finger-pointing on the field. We curled up in a ball. Lost without dignity.

Makes the losses much more difficult to accept when they are like that, and it never fails that when this Jets team loses... they do it in embarrassing fashion. This doesn't mean EVERY guy quits on the team, it just means the majority or the individuals that control momentum on this team, enable this type of reaction to adversity over-and-over.

[Jetsfan80]

I called the team soft. Then I made the analogy comparing the team to a mouthy punk. Meaning the team mouth's off until it gets slapped around and then it curls up in a ball. I didn't mean every single individual on it... I humanized the character of the team and spoke about IT as though it was an individual.

Way to sidestep the issue. Unless you have in mind a bunch of players that are soft on this team you don't have a leg to stand on. You're just cherrypicking one game and a couple of players and saying that characterizes the team.

You don't make back-to-back AFC Title games, avoid having a single losing season, and have a topflight defense year in and year out if the team is soft. It's not possible in the NFL.

[Integrity28]

You dont have a point. You called a team soft for losing to the Steelers at their home opener which they havent lost in 10 years. Every team in the league is soft by your definition.

Once again, you don't understand... I called them soft for HOW they lost. You are lucky chick dig double-chins and fake ass frat punk rock, because you aren't getting laid for your brains.

[Integrity28]

Way to sidestep the issue. Unless you have in mind a bunch of players that are soft on this team you don't have a leg to stand on. You're just cherrypicking one game and a couple of players and saying that characterizes the team.

You don't make back-to-back AFC Title games, avoid having a single losing season, and have a topflight defense year in and year out if the team is soft. It's not possible in the NFL.

Obvious troll is obvious. I hope.

[JiFtheOracle]

Once again, you don't understand... I called them soft for HOW they lost. You are lucky chick dig double-chins and fake ass frat punk rock, because you aren't getting laid for your brains.

I understand you dont have point. "EVERYONE knows that NFL players are tough SOB's", but collectively, they're soft? lmfao

The Jets lost a hard fought game. There was nothing soft about their effort.

[#27TheDominator]

Okay. So you've never heard a football team called soft or finesse before. At this point, should I conclude you are trying to troll me? Or are you really a life-long football fan that has no grasp on this?

Trying to troll you? Hello, pot.

You divided the teams into finesse and "hard" and if that's the case the Jets are certainly closer to "hard". They may not be successful, but they are not soft. They do not always fold up, as you claim. There are numerous examples over the Ryan era of them not folding up. They stayed in tons of slugfests - the 2010 playoffs against the Pats and Colts. The 2009 playoffs against the Chargers. Those games come immediately to mind. The close brawls with Green Bay and Baltimore (not the most recent blowout-but the single digit game a couple of years ago).

The only reason they are "soft" at all is because they are trying to do what every junior Bill Walsh on the site wants them to do which is get with the new era and have a passing game and more speed in the front 7 on D. Both "soft" or finesse things that will hopefully help in the long run. It may be a problem right now, but it certainly has not been a systemic problem for the Rex Ryan Jets.

If what you are complaining about is the lack of character, I can sort of see it, but that is not as simple as being "soft". I also don't see how Landry helps it because his constant personal fouls are not hard or helpful, but we shall see.

[Jetsfan80]

Obvious troll is obvious. I hope.

You're making vague claims and say I'm trolling? lol. You can't just say that losing a bad game = team is soft. We got outplayed by a strong team in their house. That happens to every team, tough or not. If you want to say we're soft, you can't make generalizations. Come up with something specific. Where was there finger-pointing on Sunday? When did we "curl up in a ball"? Who are our "soft players" other than Holmes and Cro?

[Jetsfan80]

Ape's making soft arguments here. No hard evidence, no strong arguments. Just vague generalizations and claims of people "trolling" him. Soft.

[Integrity28]

Landry

Pouha

DeVito

Scott

Pace

Revis

Mangold

Tebow

Ellis

Smith

Brick

Conner

Harris

Thomas

McIntyre

Moore

Howard

Slauson

None of those guys seem to me to be "weak of heart". All are physical players who go about their business for the most part.

You pointed to two easy targets, Sanchez and Holmes. I may not think highly of Sanchez as a player, but you can't deny his physical toughness. He's a mopey bitch but he can take a hit. Holmes, fine, you've got me there. Him and Cromartie are pussies.

I don't disagree with you 80. None of those guys "seems" weak of stature to me either, but it's got to come from somewhere. You are focusing on evaluating every individual, which is more or less irrelevant, because you don't want to admit the one part I'm right about.

When this team runs into the smallest bit of adversity, they curl up in a ball. Who ****ing knows where this behavioral trait is imparted from. Maybe it's Sanchez. Maybe it's Woody, or Tanny, or... God forbid.... Rex. All I know is that we have 3 years and 2 games of track-record at our disposal and I look back on it and it feels like every loss we've had, has been this type of mind-blowing, "what the **** is going on here", this team looks like they've got no guts and are under-coached type of loss.

You are avoiding that part of what I'm talking about. I understand why. It's not something I'd expect anyone to want to admit about the football team they root for. If you want to debate individuals, you've got the wrong Ape. I'm not going to pretend I can stitch together the right combination of guys in that lockerroom and front office that are the secret recipe to why this team is soft. I point to the outcomes of games instead.

No killer instinct. How often do we win the games we shouldn't? Almost never.

No heart. How often do we we curl up in a ball when we run into a tough opponent and things don't got perfect? Often.

No class. How often to we talk a bunch of sh*t when we own an inferior team? Always.

I'm not sure how you guys don't see these trends with this team. It doesn't matter, at this point this thread has devolved into some people trying to "prove me wrong" by cratering on splinters of my overall point. The only people that can prove me wrong suit up on Sundays, and I hope they do. I hope they do.