Who can we poach from the Giants scout department?

[SenorGato]

It is you and I that never agree, dummy. Mostly because you go out of your way to ensure NOBODY agrees with you. Tom and I both land on the same side on occasion. Any time you see me jabbing at him, it's mostly tongue-in-cheek because what he does is so transparent and shameless.

A simple yes would have sufficed you damned dirty ape.

[gangreenman]

This really is all a complete fan-created myth joke.

When are people going to learn that having an elite QB is the only thing that separates the "great, well run, in sync, organizations" from everyone else?

You know what organization people respected as this great, well run type of organization that developed picks and had a consistently good OL the past 7 or 8 years or so? The Colts. They lose their milky-way talent QB for the season...They finish 1-15, are the joke of the NFL, and sh*tcan their entire CS and FO and start fresh.

Who were the Giants when it was Kerry Collins, instead of Eli Manning? sh*t. Who were the Giants in Manning's first three years in the league, competing for playing time with Kurt Warner?

Before Mo Lew knocked out Bledsoe and the 6th round pick that was Tom Brady magically fell into his lap, Who was Bill Belichick, other than a glorified DC who's ego ruined Bernie Kozar and the Browns in Cleveland, and lead the Pats to a fantastic 6-10 record his first year, and a 1-3 start in year 2?

There's a reason why they call them Elite QBs. They do make a pretty noticeable difference, you know.

[JFtoLong]

This really is all a complete fan-created myth joke.

When are people going to learn that having an elite QB is the only thing that separates the "great, well run, in sync, organizations" from everyone else?

You know what organization people respected as this great, well run type of organization that developed picks and had a consistently good OL the past 7 or 8 years or so? The Colts. They lose their milky-way talent QB for the season...They finish 1-15, are the joke of the NFL, and sh*tcan their entire CS and FO and start fresh.

Who were the Giants when it was Kerry Collins, instead of Eli Manning? sh*t. Who were the Giants in Manning's first three years in the league, competing for playing time with Kurt Warner?

Before Mo Lew knocked out Bledsoe and the 6th round pick that was Tom Brady magically fell into his lap, Who was Bill Belichick, other than a glorified DC who's ego ruined Bernie Kozar and the Browns in Cleveland, and lead the Pats to a fantastic 6-10 record his first year, and a 1-3 start in year 2?

There's a reason why they call them Elite QBs. They do make a pretty noticeable difference, you know.

No doubt, but usually they do not just fall into your lap as elite. Some do, but that is by far the exception not the norm.

Look at Eli, Brees, even Rogers, they are among the best in the league and none of them were considered great in their first few years in the league.

Brees was so bad his first few years they drafted Rivers.

The point is you need to develop an elite QB, they don't fall into your lap unless you step in sh*t, and you cannot depend on stepping in sh*t to get an elite QB.

I still will argue the Jets did a sh*t job in developing Sanchez. If you compare how the Giants did it with Eli, it's like a night and day difference

[bitonti]

I still will argue the Jets did a sh*t job in developing Sanchez. If you compare how the Giants did it with Eli, it's like a night and day difference

this assumes that Sanchez had elite potential and that someone else would have gotten it out of him. Big assumption.

the guys that go later in the top 10, they end up more like Kerry Collins or Trent Dilfer (in a good outcome) than they do guys like Eli or Peyton. There is a giant difference between going 1 and going 5. The salary difference alone is huge.

Jets fans have misunderstood that since the days of Drob and Gholston. 5 picks are not 1 picks. that doesn't justify failure (it's still a high pick) but expectations are all wacked out. Sanchez is not Eli and unless it is revealed that his dad is the quarterback MVP of the firemen's football league, i don't think he ever will be.

[gangreenman]

No doubt, but usually they do not just fall into your lap as elite. Some do, but that is by far the exception not the norm.

Look at Eli, Brees, even Rogers, they are among the best in the league and none of them were considered great in their first few years in the league.

Brees was so bad his first few years they drafted Rivers.

The point is you need to develop an elite QB, they don't fall into your lap unless you step in sh*t, and you cannot depend on stepping in sh*t to get an elite QB.

I still will argue the Jets did a sh*t job in developing Sanchez. If you compare how the Giants did it with Eli, it's like a night and day difference

This is a flawed argument on a few levels.

First of all, Sanchez came into the league as a starter for a team that had the best defense and OL in the league. They also had Thomas Jones, a consistent 1000+ rusher. For a young, inexperienced QB, you can't ask for a better situation to learn on the fly and grow. To add on, the Jets traded away draft picks and players to ensure that their young QB would have targets (Holmes, Braylon) to throw to and help him out in his development. They also signed LT so Sanchez would have a strong veteran presence behind him after Jones left, and someone that could catch out of the backfield. Did they plan on keeping all of these guys long term? Of course not. They were band-aids put in place to help Sanchez along in his development. The theory being that once he started to become the elite QB they drafted him to be (year 3 or 4), they'd be able to afford losing some of those guys as Sanchez could make up for the difference,

Secondly, you are assuming that in a different situation, Sanchez would have maximized his potential more. Maybe if he sat for a year or two, it would have been better for him...But I don't think so. Fact is, the one thing nobody can take away from Sanchez, is that when the weight of the world was on his shoulders, and the whole nation was watching and doubting his every move when it mattered most, that is when Sanchez has played his best. I don't think the pressure of starting right away is what has hurt Sanchez. I just think he is inconsistent and overly hard on himself. Maybe that can change as he continues to mature, or maybe thats just who he is. Who knows...

[gangreenman]

this assumes that Sanchez had elite potential and that someone else would have gotten it out of him. Big assumption.

the guys that go later in the top 10, they end up more like Kerry Collins or Trent Dilfer (in a good outcome) than they do guys like Eli or Peyton. There is a giant difference between going 1 and going 5. The salary difference alone is huge.

Jets fans have misunderstood that since the days of Drob and Gholston. 5 picks are not 1 picks. that doesn't justify failure (it's still a high pick) but expectations are all wacked out. Sanchez is not Eli and unless it is revealed that his dad is the quarterback MVP of the firemen's football league, i don't think he ever will be.

I disagree with this as well. I don't think the Jets make that move to get anything less than an elite QB. Does drafting a guy at 5 guarantee he will eventually get there? Of course not, but the Jets weren't looking for a Collins or McMahon with the pick. Hence, if that is, indeed, Sanchez's ceiling, than the pick and everything they did because of that pick was a failure and waste of time.

[Smashmouth]

This is a flawed argument on a few levels.

First of all, Sanchez came into the league as a starter for a team that had the best defense and OL in the league. They also had Thomas Jones, a consistent 1000+ rusher. For a young, inexperienced QB, you can't ask for a better situation to learn on the fly and grow. To add on, the Jets traded away draft picks and players to ensure that their young QB would have targets (Holmes, Braylon) to throw to and help him out in his development. They also signed LT so Sanchez would have a strong veteran presence behind him after Jones left, and someone that could catch out of the backfield. Did they plan on keeping all of these guys long term? Of course not. They were band-aids put in place to help Sanchez along in his development. The theory being that once he started to become the elite QB they drafted him to be (year 3 or 4), they'd be able to afford losing some of those guys as Sanchez could make up for the difference,

Secondly, you are assuming that in a different situation, Sanchez would have maximized his potential more. Maybe if he sat for a year or two, it would have been better for him...But I don't think so. Fact is, the one thing nobody can take away from Sanchez, is that when the weight of the world was on his shoulders, and the whole nation was watching and doubting his every move when it mattered most, that is when Sanchez has played his best. I don't think the pressure of starting right away is what has hurt Sanchez. I just think he is inconsistent and overly hard on himself. Maybe that can change as he continues to mature, or maybe thats just who he is. Who knows...

What was flawed gangreenman was the bandaids. If you bring in a young QB then you bring in young talent for him to grow with. Unless you have an established offense already in place which we did not.

Yes we had a running game and a great defense but that was not fully realized until that year and the first 4 games of that year we had no one at WR which led us to make a desparate trade with the Browns to aquire Braylon.

When year 2 came the Jets should have drafted some skill players and they did not, instead we used a 5th rounder to get Holmes which was fine since we made another run. The Killer was year 3 when we knew we had obvious holes on the O-Line and decided to Dump Braylon and keep Holmes to the tune of 50 Mil. Bad move. The Jets also did nothing at all to fill the holes on the offensive line our back ups were a total disaster in the preseason yet the Jets did nothing. Then to replace Braylon, who was pretty clutch for us in the playoffs, we signed a moron fresh out of jail Plaxico and another loudmouth in Mason from the Ravens (who was cut after week 4 fresh after a prediction of 90 catches by idiot Rex). Some players said the locker room deteriorated from game 3 (Idiot Rex calimed no Knowledge of this out in the open to the media). Our running game went from one of the top in the NFL to one of the worst, our WR"s were slow and could not get separation, and our defense was not what it once was and was slowing down.

the 2 big mistakes this team made was the lack of signing YOUNG players for Sanchez to grow with within the first 2 years and the lack of filling holes on the O - line and at RB in year 3 under Rex Ryan.

[Bugg]

this assumes that Sanchez had elite potential and that someone else would have gotten it out of him. Big assumption.

the guys that go later in the top 10, they end up more like Kerry Collins or Trent Dilfer (in a good outcome) than they do guys like Eli or Peyton. There is a giant difference between going 1 and going 5. The salary difference alone is huge.

Jets fans have misunderstood that since the days of Drob and Gholston. 5 picks are not 1 picks. that doesn't justify failure (it's still a high pick) but expectations are all wacked out. Sanchez is not Eli and unless it is revealed that his dad is the quarterback MVP of the firemen's football league, i don't think he ever will be.

Agree. But one thing you have wrong-D-rob was sold as all that. They traded up 2 #1s to get him. The Bradway front office had no problem describing Roberston as the solultion to the DL long-term. And simply he wasn't and he wasn't worth that high a pick nor the trade. You do not make that trade for simply a reliable DT/NT starter, you make it because he will be a star. Further, again, Bradway is in many ways still here and still caling the shots on draft day and in setting scouting priorities. If merely having continuity translaated inot success the Jets have had that continuity.Let's face it; seesm the Jets miss on a lot of picks and find themselves spendinginordiante chunks of cap space on FAs. Now every team does that to some degree, but this is why we're stuck with overpaid stiffs like Scott and Pace, because Badway doesn't find draft picks nor rookie FAs to fill those spots.And spare the tradeup for Revis none of those tradeups hav been so wonderful.

[bitonti]

I disagree with this as well. I don't think the Jets make that move to get anything less than an elite QB. Does drafting a guy at 5 guarantee he will eventually get there? Of course not, but the Jets weren't looking for a Collins or McMahon with the pick. Hence, if that is, indeed, Sanchez's ceiling, than the pick and everything they did because of that pick was a failure and waste of time.

i looked through 30+ years of draft picks and I couldn't find a QB who went 5 who was better than Kerry Collins or Jim McMahon. I couldn't really find any elite QB's in the top 10, outside of 1 overall. Phillip Rivers at 4?

If the Jets and the fans expected Sanchez to be elite, we all expected wrong.

[bitonti]

Agree. But one thing you have wrong-D-rob was sold as all that. They traded up 2 #1s to get him. The Bradway front office had no problem describing Roberston as the solultion to the DL long-term. And simply he wasn't and he wasn't worth that high a pick nor the trade. You do not make that trade for simply a reliable DT/NT starter, you make it because he will be a star.

i don't want to go back in time and relive the Drob pick but keep in mind that the Jets picks turned into Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman. It was just a weak draft. Maybe the Sanchez draft was a weak QB draft. Here's a real question did we expect Sanchez at 5 to be better than Stafford at 1? What kind of homer-ism is that? If Sanchez was better than Stafford, he goes 1. Or if Sanchez is just as good, he goes 2 in an RG3 type of scenario. The way I remember that draft Sanchez was a mid first, until the Jets traded up to 5.

[Larz]

jets scouts suk

[JFtoLong]

What was flawed gangreenman was the bandaids. If you bring in a young QB then you bring in young talent for him to grow with. Unless you have an established offense already in place which we did not.

Yes we had a running game and a great defense but that was not fully realized until that year and the first 4 games of that year we had no one at WR which led us to make a desparate trade with the Browns to aquire Braylon.

When year 2 came the Jets should have drafted some skill players and they did not, instead we used a 5th rounder to get Holmes which was fine since we made another run. The Killer was year 3 when we knew we had obvious holes on the O-Line and decided to Dump Braylon and keep Holmes to the tune of 50 Mil. Bad move. The Jets also did nothing at all to fill the holes on the offensive line our back ups were a total disaster in the preseason yet the Jets did nothing. Then to replace Braylon, who was pretty clutch for us in the playoffs, we signed a moron fresh out of jail Plaxico and another loudmouth in Mason from the Ravens (who was cut after week 4 fresh after a prediction of 90 catches by idiot Rex). Some players said the locker room deteriorated from game 3 (Idiot Rex calimed no Knowledge of this out in the open to the media). Our running game went from one of the top in the NFL to one of the worst, our WR"s were slow and could not get separation, and our defense was not what it once was and was slowing down.

the 2 big mistakes this team made was the lack of signing YOUNG players for Sanchez to grow with within the first 2 years and the lack of filling holes on the O - line and at RB in year 3 under Rex Ryan.

Yup, as far as I see it, here are the problems I see with Sanchez development:

Year 1, should have had a veteran established QB to either start, or at least mentor Sanchez

Year 2 was OK

Year 3, they assumed he was ready to be a star QB and let the line and the wideout's go to sh*t.

Year 4, much the same.

After year 2 nobody was talking about how bad Sanchez sucked.

After year 3, he became the worst QB in the league.

[gangreenman]

What was flawed gangreenman was the bandaids. If you bring in a young QB then you bring in young talent for him to grow with. Unless you have an established offense already in place which we did not.

Yes we had a running game and a great defense but that was not fully realized until that year and the first 4 games of that year we had no one at WR which led us to make a desparate trade with the Browns to aquire Braylon.

When year 2 came the Jets should have drafted some skill players and they did not, instead we used a 5th rounder to get Holmes which was fine since we made another run. The Killer was year 3 when we knew we had obvious holes on the O-Line and decided to Dump Braylon and keep Holmes to the tune of 50 Mil. Bad move. The Jets also did nothing at all to fill the holes on the offensive line our back ups were a total disaster in the preseason yet the Jets did nothing. Then to replace Braylon, who was pretty clutch for us in the playoffs, we signed a moron fresh out of jail Plaxico and another loudmouth in Mason from the Ravens (who was cut after week 4 fresh after a prediction of 90 catches by idiot Rex). Some players said the locker room deteriorated from game 3 (Idiot Rex calimed no Knowledge of this out in the open to the media). Our running game went from one of the top in the NFL to one of the worst, our WR"s were slow and could not get separation, and our defense was not what it once was and was slowing down.

the 2 big mistakes this team made was the lack of signing YOUNG players for Sanchez to grow with within the first 2 years and the lack of filling holes on the O - line and at RB in year 3 under Rex Ryan.

Prior to year 2 we spent a 2nd round pick on Vlad Ducasse. We also had Hunter and Turner, both of whom had stepped in and been reliable in limited roles as backups, and a former 6th round pick, Slauson, was getting set to take over the LG position. Also, Holmes is young, and while I won't deny we overpaid for him, I don't think the decision to trade for him or keep him, in and of themselves, ware bad moves. While we did sign Plax and Mason, neither of whom worked out the way we wanted, we also drafted Kerley, who beat out Mason for the spot, and looks to have a lot of promise so far in his young career. Might be the slot guy we've been missing since Chrebet.

Missing on Ducasse obviously hurt, and Hunter never was able to handle the pressure of being the full time starter. Remember we also lost Turner for the season in preseason last year, then Mangold got hurt. Those are tough circumstances that are impossible for a GM to anticipate.

[gangreenman]

i looked through 30+ years of draft picks and I couldn't find a QB who went 5 who was better than Kerry Collins or Jim McMahon. I couldn't really find any elite QB's in the top 10, outside of 1 overall. Phillip Rivers at 4?

If the Jets and the fans expected Sanchez to be elite, we all expected wrong.

Sorry, you are not going to convince me that the Jets traded up to that pick, then proceeded to sign and trade for others to complement that pick, over what they believed to be a Kerry Collins or McMahon part 2.

[JFtoLong]

i looked through 30+ years of draft picks and I couldn't find a QB who went 5 who was better than Kerry Collins or Jim McMahon. I couldn't really find any elite QB's in the top 10, outside of 1 overall. Phillip Rivers at 4?

If the Jets and the fans expected Sanchez to be elite, we all expected wrong.

Big Ben?

[Lizard King]

We should go offer Kevin Colbert in Pittsburgh twice what he is currently making.

[SayNoToDMC]

We should go offer Kevin Colbert in Pittsburgh twice what he is currently making.

If he can find a way to trade Santonio again I'm in

[Bugg]

i don't want to go back in time and relive the Drob pick but keep in mind that the Jets picks turned into Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman. It was just a weak draft. Maybe the Sanchez draft was a weak QB draft. Here's a real question did we expect Sanchez at 5 to be better than Stafford at 1? What kind of homer-ism is that? If Sanchez was better than Stafford, he goes 1. Or if Sanchez is just as good, he goes 2 in an RG3 type of scenario. The way I remember that draft Sanchez was a mid first, until the Jets traded up to 5.

It's a fair point that not every year do the top picks in the draft feature talent like Marino/Elway or Eli/Rivers/Rapist. Simply the Jets under Bradway(and again he is the guy on draft day form 2000 until right now)seem to fall down in the middle rounds.

[SenorGato]

It's a fair point that not every year do the top picks in the draft feature talent like Marino/Elway or Eli/Rivers/Rapist. Simply the Jets under Bradway(and again he is the guy on draft day form 2000 until right now)seem to fall down in the middle rounds.

Bradway's been one voice amongst many since 2006. The Jets draft fine relative to the league, which is why they're a mid-tier team rather than a really bad one the past 3 years. This team is a good QB away from being one of the best in the league, and has been for a few years now.

[JFtoLong]

Bradway's been one voice amongst many since 2006. The Jets draft fine relative to the league, which is why they're a mid-tier team rather than a really bad one the past 3 years. This team is a good QB away from being one of the best in the league, and has been for a few years now.

I disagree, they are either a great QB or a good one and many other pieces from being an upper tier team. The receivers suck, a great QB may work with that, a good one will not.

[KSJets]

Eli showed a lot more promise.

The Bills game was arguably the 1st game where Sanchez played well for 4 Quarters.

A lot more promise? When? When he was throwing an underhanded, with his LEFT HAND, pass down around the goal line that was intercepted? People have short memories, but the year before last year, Eli had 30+ turnovers. Last year was the first year where he played at any level that was considered 'elite' and it was in his eighth year.

[SenorGato]

I disagree, they are either a great QB or a good one and many other pieces from being an upper tier team. The receivers suck, a great QB may work with that, a good one will not.

The big difference between this team and all the good ones isn't the WRs on offense. The WRs are not the big problem here with the passing game. Consistently strong QB play has this team winning 12-13 games a year and would have the previous 3 seasons.

[Bugg]

Bradway's been one voice amongst many since 2006. The Jets draft fine relative to the league, which is why they're a mid-tier team rather than a really bad one the past 3 years. This team is a good QB away from being one of the best in the league, and has been for a few years now.

We really don't know. All we know is Tannebaum is not a scout.May be form his time in football he's picked up a bit of knowledge and certainly the head coach has some input(too much in the case of Mangini/Gholston). Clinkscale and Dick Haley are long gone. Bradway is still there.In fact while he was nominally demoted he has never really left. And he also has had his job move at least an hour or more closer to his house with the move to Florham Park.

[SenorGato]

I'm not denying that the organization still values Bradway as a scout. Plus, Clinkscales only left this year. He had a ton of input into the draft, as did Bradway, Tannenbaum, their scouts, and the two HCs under Tannenbaum.