Cimi: No Shortage of Jets News this Week. Storylines to watch

[JiFtheOracle]

1) GM's always lie about everything. 

 

2) GM's always want to hire their own coach. 

 

1) I hate Liars. 

 

2) What if Rex is his coach?

[unbanmadmike1]

1) I hate Liars. 

 

2) What if Rex is his coach?

I would invite you to take a look at what the new Bears GM had to say about Lovie Smith after he was hired, how great a coach he was and how happy he was to work with him... Then he fired him coming off a better year than Rex had. 

[jetsjetsjetss]

Rex will not be a good HEAD coach, no matter how well his defense plays, until he stops being inept on how to run an offense. 

 

*until he gets a franchise qb

[Integrity28]

I jus want to know why Landry/Keller getting extensions would be seen as an endorsement. Especially Landry...I like Landry alot as a player but that doesn't mean I want the Jets to be dumb enough to give him 30 million. This couldn't be more true if the choice is between him and Revis...Revis all day err day, early.

 

Why wouldn't it be?

[Bleedin Green]

1. How will the defense be dominant when they're dumping five, possibly six starters off of it, including Revis?

2. If the defense is statistically top-ten, but the team goes 6-10 again, you think Rex keeps his job?

 

I think Rex has a shot to keep his job, but he'll have to earn it and there isn't any specific numbers that will define that one way or another from now, it's all going to depend on how the season plays out.  Looking at a record or stats in a vacuum doesn't always give you the whole story.  You go back to before the 2008 season, do you think there's anyone in the world who would have bet on Mangini losing his job if you told them the Jets would go 9-7?  Rex will no doubt have to earn an extension, but it will be based on how everything plays out.  If the season goes anything like the past 2, he's definitely a goner.  If the team improves over the course of the season and you see contributions and growth from throughout the young guys on the roster, on both sides of the ball, he might stay even without a winning record.

[unbanmadmike1]

*until he gets a franchise qb

Except he got a chance to get a franchise QB and HE CHOSE to draft Mark Sanchez as that guy. THAT'S WHY he isn't a good coach. 

[jetsjetsjetss]

Except he got a chance to get a franchise QB and HE CHOSE to draft Mark Sanchez as that guy. THAT'S WHY he isn't a good coach. 

 

meh a defensive minded coach making a mistake on a qb? If we had a better GM and scouting department it may have been different. But idk why everyone forgets mostly everyone had sanchez as a top qb on their mock drafts everyone was wrong it happens revisionist history doesnt do any good.

[flgreen]

Loves him so much that he's got a one year deal and a metrocard in his pocket.

Rex's contract runs thru 2014. 

 

IMO if the Jets go 8-8 or better Rex is back.

 

7-9 gray area.  Depends how the end of the season goes.

 

6-10 gone

[unbanmadmike1]

meh a defensive minded coach making a mistake on a qb? If we had a better GM and scouting department it may have been different. But idk why everyone forgets mostly everyone had sanchez as a top qb on their mock drafts everyone was wrong it happens revisionist history doesnt do any good.

It was his job to get that right, and by getting it wrong he set the franchise 5 years back. Thats not revisionist history, thats something coaches get fired for all the time. 

[SenorGato]

Rex is on a one-year deal. Rex needs to generate evidence to prove that he's a worthwhile head coach moving forward. Rex will have to do that with rookies and low-end free agents. This is a difficult task.

Either:

A. Idzik is pulling the rug out from under Rex's feet by tearing the team down, with the knowledge that this is a lost year (aka Conventional Wisdom)

-or-

B. Rex is so secure in his job that Rex has to win absolutely nothing to keep it, thus losing 8 starters and replacing them with said rookies and free agents matters not. This is true despite the fact that Rex has not received any extension. (aka thafuq?)

Evidence for Rex:

- Came right in, started a garbage rookie QB, and had them one half game away from the SB twice.

- Pulled out 6 wins with Sanchez continuing to implode, no Revis, and both of Sanchez's best pass catchers missing most of the season.

- Consistently can put out an above average D even when the personnel is lagging. Elite Ds, actual elite Ds, are legitimate possibilities in any given year provided the players are up to scratch.

- Consistently can put out a strong pass defense at a time when that is kind of a big deal. He's yet to have anything more than an average pass rusher starting in his D, or even as a role player.

- Has never received top 20 QB player and yet has one losing season in four.

Evidence against:

- T0mmy is Angwy.

- T0mmy sees himself as a straight shooter, a bottom line guy, a renaissance man on the cutting edge in his head. Rex put up 6-10 after 8-8 so BottomLineT0m sees a TREND going down. There is no critical explanation to this, no logic, no reason...T0mmy's a cold blooded killer and he's just calling it as he sees it.

- He says words a lot of words. Those words fuel T0mmy's angew.

- T0mmy lives in a black/white, either/or world because he just gets down to the nitty gritty like any other straight shootin' gunslingin' man of the world. It's either Rex is getting ****ed for the hell of it (FUTURE'S A'Comin!) or the Jets are giving him the job long term for free.

- Looking at the successes is just picking arbitrary moments. It's the failures that tell the whole story, especially if you choose to ignore chunks of the whole story and pick the totally not arbitrary moments of failure.

- Angwy, BottomLineT0mmy had already penned a 4-12 season anyway. Try and prove that's not real!

[JiFtheOracle]

Except he got a chance to get a franchise QB and HE CHOSE to draft Mark Sanchez as that guy. THAT'S WHY he isn't a good coach. 

 

That makes him a bad HC?  lmfao.

 

okay

[JetsFanInDenver]

Rex will get fired as the HC of the JETS. Just watch!

[Bleedin Green]

It was his job to get that right, and by getting it wrong he set the franchise 5 years back. Thats not revisionist history, thats something coaches get fired for all the time. 

 

Actually, that was not his job at all.  That was Tannenbaum's job, thus the reason he is currently unemployed.  Now the fact that Rex has continued to start that useless pile of dung for the past 4 years?  That's a completely different story.

[T0mShane]

X

[jetsjetsjetss]

It was his job to get that right, and by getting it wrong he set the franchise 5 years back. Thats not revisionist history, thats something coaches get fired for all the time. 

 

Id say its the GMs job to get that right?

 

look at the 2009 mock drafts everyone had sanchez going in the top 10. Everyone was fooled he sucks move on. Rex wasnt being brought in for his high powered offensive prowess and scouting ability he was brought in cause the dude makes stud Ds and pretty much every year he has succeeded in building one

[T0mShane]

Evidence for Rex:

- Came right in, started a garbage rookie QB, and had them one half game away from the SB twice.

- Pulled out 6 wins with Sanchez continuing to implode, no Revis, and both of Sanchez's best pass catchers missing most of the season.

- Consistently can put out an above average D even when the personnel is lagging. Elite Ds, actual elite Ds, are legitimate possibilities in any given year provided the players are up to scratch.

- Consistently can put out a strong pass defense at a time when that is kind of a big deal. He's yet to have anything more than an average pass rusher starting in his D, or even as a role player.

- Has never received top 20 QB player and yet has one losing season in four.

Evidence against:

- T0mmy is Angwy.

- T0mmy sees himself as a straight shooter, a bottom line guy, a renaissance man on the cutting edge in his head. Rex put up 6-10 after 8-8 so BottomLineT0m sees a TREND going down. There is no critical explanation to this, no logic, no reason...T0mmy's a cold blooded killer and he's just calling it as he sees it.

- He says words a lot of words. Those words fuel T0mmy's angew.

- T0mmy lives in a black/white, either/or world because he just gets down to the nitty gritty like any other straight shootin' gunslingin' man of the world. It's either Rex is getting ****ed for the hell of it (FUTURE'S A'Comin!) or the Jets are giving him the job long term for free.

- Looking at the successes is just picking arbitrary moments. It's the failures that tell the whole story, especially if you choose to ignore chunks of the whole story and pick the totally not arbitrary moments of failure.

- Angwy, BottomLineT0mmy had already penned a 4-12 season anyway. Try and prove that's not real!

I don't mind sarcasm as long as it's funny, but when you dip into nine-year-old-having-a-tantrum territory, you're not worth talking to.

[SenorGato]

I don't mind sarcasm as long as it's funny, but when you dip into nine-year-old-having-a-tantrum territory, you're not worth talking to.

I talk to you and you've been in that territory for YEARS Mahv. It's like that time you accused me of putting words in your mouth when that's constantly what you're doing...you did it in this very thread when not wanting to pay Landry = I hate Landry.

Whether you want to admit it or not, there is plenty of evidence that Rex Ryan is a quality HC who has dealt with an aging roster in need of turnover the past two years. The turnover did not come quickly enough, top draft picks (most specifically Sanchez and Gholston) did nothing to aid the effort, and the man in charge of those personnel decisions now has nothing to do with the effort.

[T0mShane]

Rex's contract runs thru 2014.

IMO if the Jets go 8-8 or better Rex is back.

7-9 gray area. Depends how the end of the season goes.

6-10 gone

That's where I'm at, too. If he gets to 7-9, you can at least have a conversation about keeping him on. Otherwise, he's gonna be gone. I do think this is like the Lovie Smith situation in Chicago. The new GM gives him one last gasp, then moves forward with his own guy.

[#27TheDominator]

Things Gato is right about:

1. T0m is always ready to jump on the bad the Rex has produced without giving credit for the good.  The first game Rex coached here was not the playoff game against the Steelers.  Dierking is even worse on this point.

2.  It isn't exactly fair or reasonable to demand the team tank the season, by keeping all cap space for 2014 and doing nothing to try and get better, but demand a playoff season or the coach will be fired.  

3.  Rex does not deserve all the blame for Sanchez.  That is 99% on the GM.  It's possible that Rex went to bat for the guy, but if the GM folded up and let Rex make the pick that is also on the GM.

 

Things T0m is right about:

1.  Whether I like it or not, Rex will probably be fired.

2. The team will probably be fairly bad this season no matter what.

3.  Rex may be a good to great coach, but he has more limitations than other coaches, even those that aren't even good.

 

Things Dierking is right about:

The Jets D may be good, but their status and statistics have been inflated by the piss-poor offense.  

[Il Mostro]

X

 

 

I like your new persona.  Tom X.  The bow tie looks sharp, too. Now, go get me a damn bean pie.

[Integrity28]

Cimini is full of bologna... there's a distinct shortage of news, especially when compared to the years with Tanny here. 

 

That's why he's codgering together a list of nothing, punctuated with beating the Revis dead horse some more.

 

Dude sucks at his job.

[flgreen]

Things Gato is right about:

1. T0m is always ready to jump on the bad the Rex has produced without giving credit for the good.  The first game Rex coached here was not the playoff game against the Steelers.  Dierking is even worse on this point.

2.  It isn't exactly fair or reasonable to demand the team tank the season, by keeping all cap space for 2014 and doing nothing to try and get better, but demand a playoff season or the coach will be fired.  

3.  Rex does not deserve all the blame for Sanchez.  That is 99% on the GM.  It's possible that Rex went to bat for the guy, but if the GM folded up and let Rex make the pick that is also on the GM.

 

Things T0m is right about:

1.  Whether I like it or not, Rex will probably be fired.

2. The team will probably be fairly bad this season no matter what.

3.  Rex may be a good to great coach, but he has more limitations than other coaches, even those that aren't even good.

 

Things Dierking is right about:

The Jets D may be good, but their status and statistics have been inflated by the piss-poor offense.  

Glad that is all setteled.

 

Now lets move on to more important things.  Like who has the best butt on the Flight Crew?

[slats]

Rex is on a one-year deal. Rex needs to generate evidence to prove that he's a worthwhile head coach moving forward. Rex will have to do that with rookies and low-end free agents. This is a difficult task.

Either:

A. Idzik is pulling the rug out from under Rex's feet by tearing the team down, with the knowledge that this is a lost year (aka Conventional Wisdom)

-or-

B. Rex is so secure in his job that Rex has to win absolutely nothing to keep it, thus losing 8 starters and replacing them with said rookies and free agents matters not. This is true despite the fact that Rex has not received any extension. (aka thafuq?)

 

It's kinda amazing that you've professed great faith in John Idzik as the team's new executive, yet you think these black & whites are the only two possible futures for Rex.

 

I don't think there's going to be such a big tie-in to wins and losses, especially if Idzik does some gutting and of the roster himself. He should have an idea of the level of talent Rex has to work with, and the difficulty of the upcoming schedule. He should watch Rex closely, take part in a lot of team meetings, and determine whether or not he thinks Rex will be able to win with the roster he's hoping to put together over the next couple years by judging his coaching style, substance, and the players reactions to him. If the roster sucks, a losing season is pretty inevitable. Tossing the coach because he had no talent to work with would not be fair or smart.

[Il Mostro]

Except he got a chance to get a franchise QB and HE CHOSE to draft Mark Sanchez as that guy. THAT'S WHY he isn't a good coach. 

\

 

First, I don't think Rex is a capable HC.  But the voice he has had in personnel matters is really Woody and Tanny's fault.   An incompetent, bean-counting GM and an attention whore of an owner pretty much gave Rex the keys to the castle from day-1 as though he was already an established HC and personnel guru.  

[#27TheDominator]

I like your new persona.  Tom X.  The bow tie looks sharp, too. Now, go get me a damn bean pie.

 

 

The X is for eXtreme!

[SenorGato]

It's kinda amazing that you've professed great faith in John Idzik as the team's new executive, yet you think these black & whites are the only two possible futures for Rex.

 

I don't think there's going to be such a big tie-in to wins and losses, especially if Idzik does some gutting and of the roster himself. He should have an idea of the level of talent Rex has to work with, and the difficulty of the upcoming schedule. He should watch Rex closely, take part in a lot of team meetings, and determine whether or not he thinks Rex will be able to win with the roster he's hoping to put together over the next couple years by judging his coaching style, substance, and the players reactions to him. If the roster sucks, a losing season is pretty inevitable. Tossing the coach because he had no talent to work with would not be fair or smart.

 

You are killing them on this one Jay. *double guns*

 

If Idzik is any good at his job then he's fully aware of the context he will be putting Ryan into. If he were to load up the roster somehow and Ryan was not winning - obviously you fire him. If the idea is to sign Victor Butler and a couple of other JAGs that might have some upside to mine out for a couple years down the road then you evaluate the coaches in that context. 

[SenorGato]

Why wouldn't it be?

 

Missed this. It would be an endorsement of those players, not Ryan.

 

If they were extended, therefore seemingly approved of by the GM (seemingly because even this might only be half true if Idzik is bad at his job), wouldn't that just be easy to spin into - "Idzik likes them, Ryan went 6-10 with them last year, obviously Idzik doesn't think they're the problem?" 

[Scott Dierking]

You are killing them on this one Jay. *double guns*

 

If Idzik is any good at his job then he's fully aware of the context he will be putting Ryan into. If he were to load up the roster somehow and Ryan was not winning - obviously you fire him. If the idea is to sign Victor Butler and a couple of other JAGs that might have some upside to mine out for a couple years down the road then you evaluate the coaches in that context. 

Not to put aside that Rex:

-has admittedly lost the locker room before

-allows leaks from his staff to go unchecked

-allows a caste system of position hierarchy with no accountability with players

-hired an inept offensive coordinator that needed to be fired one year later

-hired an inept qb coach who seemed to have no clue on how to develop any qb

-demonstrates zero ability to coach full units on a team

-has a team that will quite probably be in a 3rd year of decline

 

Other than that, Rex deserves a long leash

[Integrity28]

Missed this. It would be an endorsement of those players, not Ryan.

 

If they were extended, therefore seemingly approved of by the GM (seemingly because even this might only be half true if Idzik is bad at his job), wouldn't that just be easy to spin into - "Idzik likes them, Ryan went 6-10 with them last year, obviously Idzik doesn't think they're the problem?" 

 

Can you prove this, or is it just your point of view? 

[Integrity28]

Not to put aside that Rex:

-has admittedly lost the locker room before

-allows leaks from his staff to go unchecked

-allows a caste system of position hierarchy with no accountability with players

-hired an inept offensive coordinator that needed to be fired one year later

-hired an inept qb coach who seemed to have no clue on how to develop any qb

-demonstrates zero ability to coach full units on a team

-has a team that will quite probably be in a 3rd year of decline

 

Other than that, Rex deserves a long leash

 

 

This seems legit.

[Il Mostro]

Not to put aside that Rex:

-has admittedly lost the locker room before

-allows leaks from his staff to go unchecked

-allows a caste system of position hierarchy with no accountability with players

-hired an inept offensive coordinator that needed to be fired one year later

-hired an inept qb coach who seemed to have no clue on how to develop any qb

-demonstrates zero ability to coach full units on a team

-has a team that will quite probably be in a 3rd year of decline

 

Other than that, Rex deserves a long leash

 

 

An early and very specific definition of his job responsibilities, and no-go areas, would have gone a long way.  "Shut the F%#! up and coach" would have been a good start.  

[SenorGato]

-has admittedly lost the locker room before

 

 

 

Ignoring that I'd love to see the admission, not saying it doesn't exist, predictive value of that is...?

 

 

-allows leaks from his staff to go unchecked

 

 

Last I checked Mike Pettine is in football purgatory and crack heaven.

 

 

 

-allows a caste system of position hierarchy with no accountability with players

 

 

 

Based on reports from such Pulitzer prize candidates such as Manish Mehta...IF that, since this could easily be filed into being completely made up.

 

 

 

-hired an inept offensive coordinator that needed to be fired one year later

 

 

 

After top candidate Todd Haley (and probably others) wanted absolutely nothing to do with Sanchez. I don't get this board's fetish for eliminating context...feet is so much better.

 

 

 

-hired an inept qb coach who seemed to have no clue on how to develop any qb

 

 

 

Oh look - more free passes for Sanchez. He just wasn't developed correctly based on...stuff.

 

 

 

-demonstrates zero ability to coach full units on a team

 

 

 

Anyone who can translate what this is supposed to mean feel free to do so. 

 

-has a team that will quite probably be in a 3rd year of decline

 

 

 

 

 

If you lose on purpose, like The Plan calls for according to JN, is it really decline? There's that stupid context sh*t again....

 

 

Other than that, Rex deserves a long leash

 

 

He did earn a long leash actually. Did it through real, tangible things like the results he got on the field despite embarrassingly bad QB play in all his seasons but 2010 (when he put up 11 wins with a QB who could rejoice over being top 25). One losing season and one .500 season is not enough to override that, particularly if you do more than just poke your head around Mehta and Cimini articles 'til you get to the part that is supposed to make you react emotionally. If you choose to watch sports in a more critical fashion than it just being your favorite TV program/soap opera then there are plenty of straight reasons why Ryan was able to buy himself some rope. This from the great poster who predicted he would become Wrecks Ryan to this fanbase within 4 years the week he was hired. 

[SenorGato]

Can you prove this, or is it just your point of view? 

 

 

 

One point of view during the early stages of thinking that out. I've been asking the same question since the thread started to no answer so I'll try to work this out. 

 

 

Resigning Keller/Landry, especially Landry, for their perceived price tags right now, would most definitely be an endorsement of their talent. I don't see how it wouldn't be - you're basically saying this oft-injured late 20's safety is worth having at a premium price rather than the bargain he was last year. Now, if they come cheap that changes the story. In that case they just joined the pile of potential bargain signings of semi to fully competent mid-late 20's players. That would not be an endorsement of their talent but rather Idzik filling out the roster with competent players because he thinks Ryan can get more out of them. Is that the original thought process? 

[T0mShane]

Things Gato is right about:

1. T0m is always ready to jump on the bad the Rex has produced without giving credit for the good. The first game Rex coached here was not the playoff game against the Steelers. Dierking is even worse on this point.

This is true. Ive seen too many bad coaches come through here, so I don't give any of them a long leash. That said, I don't think Rex is the answer. He's had his shot, and his window has closed. He's a defensive coordinator and a defensive coordinator alone. Some guys are generals, some guys are staff sergeants. Tell me: where has Rex improved over these last four years?

2. It isn't exactly fair or reasonable to demand the team tank the season, by keeping all cap space for 2014 and doing nothing to try and get better, but demand a playoff season or the coach will be fired.

Rex is in the wrong place at the wrong time, even if it's largely his doing. Coaches get fired all the time for stuff that isn't their fault--look at Lovie Smith, Ken Whisenhunt, etc. Do you want to say that Rex has a better track record than those two guys?

When you're talking about tanking a season, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I'm advocating not pulling a Tannenbaum--restructuring deals that push money into the future in order to sign short-term band-aid players that might help the 2013 team get to--where--8-8? If the choice is between a clean(er) financial slate in 2014 or two more meaningless wins in 2013, I'm taking the former. Again, Rex isn't dying based on his 2013 record--he's dying because of 2011, 2012, and 2013. Can he save his job by fielding a scrappy bunch of well-prepared overachievers this year? Maybe. But I don't think, if I'm a new, young GM, that this would be enough to sway me. Idzik, and the whole league, knows what Rex is about. They know how he runs his teams. His strengths and weaknesses are fairly common knowledge (the motherf*cker was on Hard Knocks for god's sake)--what does Idzik have to see to turn the tide in Rex's favor if we're not counting wins and losses? Scrappiness?

3. Rex does not deserve all the blame for Sanchez. That is 99% on the GM. It's possible that Rex went to bat for the guy, but if the GM folded up and let Rex make the pick that is also on the GM.

Drafting Sanchez? Partially Rex's fault.

Not having a viable backup in 2011 and 2012? Kinda Rex's fault.

Playing Sanchez all throughout 2013? 100% Rex's fault.

If one player is hurting your team/business/cult as much as Mark Sanchez was hurting it the past two years, and you did nothing to change it, you're as culpable as Mark Sanchez.

[Scott Dierking]

Here you go Gato. Your hero:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/28/rex-ryan-i-didnt-do-a-good-enough-job-managing-our-locker-room/

 

“Our locker room wasn’t as close as it’s been in the past, obviously, but one thing we know is we’re going to fix it,” Ryan said in an interview with ESPN. “We might have been knocked down this year but we’re not knocked out. We’re going to be swinging, and there’s no doubt about it. But I can’t wait. It’s about moving forward, put that stuff behind us. But there’s things we’re going to learn from. This past season, 8-8 clearly is not good enough. We did have some issues where, obviously, I never did a good enough job of recognizing it and fixing it, but we’re fixing it right now. There’s no doubt about that.”