This Mock draft has us taking LSU Mingo at 9

[HessStation]

FWIW, Mayock compared him to Irvin and it seems pretty obvious that the Jets and Seahawks (Idzik) liked Irvin plenty.

I think Irvin was/is slightly more explosive but Mingo is very underrated better vs the run.

That said I think Mingo is the most explosive edge guy in this yrs draft. Irvin is one dimensional but prob the most explosive guy I've ever seen.

[slats]

True but I don't think that any of them are worth #9 at that point. You'd be happy with one in the teens but not a one of them screams top ten pick. I'm also on the side of our WRs aren't that horrible especially if they bring Braylon back.

Holmes is coming off a lisfranc stress fracture, and Braylon remains unsigned because he's widely seen as somewhat toasted. Plus, the Jets top TE right now is Jeff Cumberland. Sanchez did suck last year, but it's not like he had much help, either.

I'm not a fan of drafting for need -at all- but I will not be unhappy if the BAP at #9 is one of the WRs.

[HessStation]

IMO TE is at least as bad a value pick as S and G. A TE @ 9? No thanks.

I disagree about G if the guy is almost auto pro bowl.

Totally agree about S. depends with the TE but not this year, even though Eifert and Ertz look solid.

[HessStation]

Holmes is coming off a lisfranc stress fracture, and Braylon remains unsigned because he's widely seen as somewhat toasted. Plus, the Jets top TE right now is Jeff Cumberland. Sanchez did suck last year, but it's not like he had much help, either.

I'm not a fan of drafting for need -at all- but I will not be unhappy if the BAP at #9 is one of the WRs.

Problem w that is no way BAP is a WR at 9 IMO.

[#27TheDominator]

I disagree about G if the guy is almost auto pro bowl.

Totally agree about S. depends with the TE but not this year, even though Eifert and Ertz look solid.

 

 

Yeah, maybe I was pushing it.  My point was that IMO it is not a premium position.  It's not kicker/punter/LS, but it's not rush OLB or QB either.  It comes down the the individual player, but position is a factor too and I'm not looking for a TE that high.

[slats]

Problem w that is no way BAP is a WR at 9 IMO.

Because no WR is a top nine pick, or because the best WRs will already be gone?

Follow up question: would you take one of the guards ahead of Cordarrelle Patterson or Tavon Austin? Because I wouldn't.

[T0mShane]

Problem w that is no way BAP is a WR at 9 IMO.

You don't know that. There's as good a chance in five years that Cordarelle Patterson is an All Pro as Barkevious Mingo.

[T0mShane]

I can't watch that at work, but it probably doesn't change my point. IMO the difference between an adequate TE and good/great one is much smaller than the difference between an adequate WR and a good/great one. You just need a decent sized sh*thead to run up the seam or hook in the middle and catch the damn ball.

In 1975, maybe. There's no need to parse between WR and TE. They're complementary roles on a good passing offense. Where you find a good WR, you happen to find good TEs, and vice versa.

[HessStation]

You don't know that. There's as good a chance in five years that Cordarelle Patterson is an All Pro as Barkevious Mingo.

Oh course i don't know that, nobody knows anything, it's the draft. But reading through it all it would seem not too many outlets via magazine, TV, radio or Internet has any of the WRs ranked as a top 10 player. BAP is an opinion, how the hell should I know what the jets think, but we can take an educated guess from what we're reading/seeing.

[HessStation]

Because no WR is a top nine pick, or because the best WRs will already be gone?

Follow up question: would you take one of the guards ahead of Cordarrelle Patterson or Tavon Austin? Because I wouldn't.

I would but I could get into them picking either WR also. You don't see too many top 10 ranking with the WRs there. You see mocks with them Top 10 but speaking strictly BAP I think most would tell you the G > WR. Strictly BAP...

[bitonti]

the Jets already have Cordarrelle Patterson. his name is Stephen Hill. 

 

btw Russ Lande said doesn't think Eifert gets out of the top 20 picks. PIT at 17 makes sense, Heath Miller's coming off some sort of knee thing.

[T0mShane]

the Jets already have Cordarrelle Patterson. his name is Stephen Hill.

btw Russ Lande said doesn't think Eifert gets out of the top 20 picks. PIT at 17 makes sense, Heath Miller's coming off some sort of knee thing.

Russ Lande thinks Ryan Nassib is the eighth overall pick.

And agreed on Patterson-Hill thing, other than being able to catch and run in something other than a straight line.

[HessStation]

Russ Lande thinks Ryan Nassib is the eighth overall pick.

And agreed on Patterson-Hill thing, other than being able to catch and run in something other than a straight line.

Yeah bc Patterson didn't drop big time catches in college. Watch Alabama game.

[T0mShane]

Yeah bc Patterson didn't drop big time catches in college. Watch Alabama game.

 

 

Hill had about 40 catches in college. How many of those were "big time"?

[HessStation]

Hill had about 40 catches in college. How many of those were "big time"?

I'm sorry TOm, Hunter dropped the big one vs Alabama. Hunter drops about 2 balls a game yet was still the #1 target for one of the worse teams in the SEC btw.

No sense in arguing Hill vs. Patterson. Hill was a second round pick, chosen via combine numbers and potential. We're talking g about Patterson as a top 10 pick. I think it's a fair assessment to consider that a pretty risky investment, given he's a 1 year Juco kid, considered the second option to a kid with worse hands than Hill, in Hunter on the worse team in the conference.

 

Mind you Zach Rogers was his Bray's security blanket, not Patterson. 

The only similarity between Hill and Patrerson is that they were or will both be taken on "potential".

Btw, I will find the game he drops a bomb in his hands, ala Braylon Edwards, in which the team folds after the big drop.

[Il Mostro]

Hill had about 40 catches in college. How many of those were "big time"?

 

 

With those stats, each and every catch would be a major event.

[HessStation]

Hill had about 40 catches in college. How many of those were "big time"?

 

 

Just as a, for fun, exercise, I wanted to compare Hill vs. Patterson. Although Hill had 3 years work vs. Patterson's 1 year I took Hill's last yr. as a Jr. vs. Patterson's one year. Mind you, Patterson's last year in High School was 2008, which would make him, essentially, a 5th year Senior. 

 

 

Hill: 28 catches/820 yards/30 ypc/5 TDs

 

Patterson: 46 catches/778 yards/17 ypc/5 TDs

 

Hill is 6'4 ran 4.36 jumped 39.5 vert 133 broad

 

Patterson is 6'2 ran 4.42 and jumped 37 vert and 128 broad

 

so basically, on paper....Patterson trumps Hill in only one category...18 more catches in a pass heavy offense vs. Hill who played in a run heavy offense. 

[HessStation]

...actually thinking about this more and more, as Bit mentions, there are A LOT of similarities between Hill and Patterson. In that, there is nothing that says he can't become a star given his speed, size and athleticism but there is also no real history that shows or proves he already is a star. It's all based on "potential". Although Patterson may have better hands than Hill, he's certainly not a clutch, sure handed automatic catch, a la Larry Fitzgerald either.   

[T0mShane]

Just as a, for fun, exercise, I wanted to compare Hill vs. Patterson. Although Hill had 3 years work vs. Patterson's 1 year I took Hill's last yr. as a Jr. vs. Patterson's one year. Mind you, Patterson's last year in High School was 2008, which would make him, essentially, a 5th year Senior.

Hill: 28 catches/820 yards/30 ypc/5 TDs

Patterson: 46 catches/778 yards/17 ypc/5 TDs

Hill is 6'4 ran 4.36 jumped 39.5 vert 133 broad

Patterson is 6'2 ran 4.42 and jumped 37 vert and 128 broad

so basically, on paper....Patterson trumps Hill in only one category...18 more catches in a pass heavy offense vs. Hill who played in a run heavy offense.

Look at the running ability after the catch. Hill is a track athlete playing WR. It takes him five yards to simply slow down and cut. I don't see the comparison at all.

[JADEDGREEN]

It's like Hess has become Pac.

[T0mShane]

...actually thinking about this more and more, as Bit mentions, there are A LOT of similarities between Hill and Patterson. In that, there is nothing that says he can't become a star given his speed, size and athleticism but there is also no real history that shows or proves he already is a star. It's all based on "potential". Although Patterson may have better hands than Hill, he's certainly not a clutch, sure handed automatic catch, a la Larry Fitzgerald either.

You're confusing 40 times with athleticism/

[HessStation]

Look at the running ability after the catch. Hill is a track athlete playing WR. It takes him five yards to simply slow down and cut. I don't see the comparison at all.

Their not the same player, I agree. One's is a long strider, the other is shorter more compact, etc etc...but they ARE both similar in that, nothing in college proves this guy is going to be great. Both showed flashes, both look good on paper, both were/are getting drafted based on future potential. 

[HessStation]

It's like Hess has become Pac.

 

Please stop trolling me. kthx

[HessStation]

You're confusing 40 times with athleticism/

So you're disregarding both vert and broad which Hill kills Patterson. 

 

Again, I don't think they're the same player or athlete. But they are coming into the draft under similar circumstances, rising based on potential. 

[HessStation]

You're confusing 40 times with athleticism/

 

Better said would have been confusing athleticism with football player.  Hill is the better athlete. Patterson is the better football player and is still an incredible athlete. 

[T0mShane]

So you're disregarding both vert and broad which Hill kills Patterson.

Again, I don't think they're the same player or athlete. But they are coming into the draft under similar circumstances, rising based on potential.

I really don't want to make it sound like I'm in deep, dark love with Patterson. My issue is in going all revisionist with Hill. Prior to the Combine, Hill was a nobody. He was and is an unbelievably raw prospect whose sole skill seems to be running forward at a good pace. Patterson is a run-and-catch athlete who was also a big-time kick returner. Entirely different kinds of players. You hope Hill turns into Jacoby Jones, at best. Patterson plays like Victor Cruz.

[HessStation]

I really don't want to make it sound like I'm in deep, dark love with Patterson. My issue is in going all revisionist with Hill. Prior to the Combine, Hill was a nobody. He was and is an unbelievably raw prospect whose sole skill seems to be running forward at a good pace. Patterson is a run-and-catch athlete who was also a big-time kick returner. Entirely different kinds of players. You hope Hill turns into Jacoby Jones, at best. Patterson plays like Victor Cruz.

 

my only point was/is, Patterson is as risky as the next guy, if not more. 

[T0mShane]

my only point was/is, Patterson is as risky as the next guy, if not more.

Well, agreed. But I think Hill is the wrong example to put up there for the reasons we've discussed.

[HessStation]

Well, agreed. But I think Hill is the wrong example to put up there for the reasons we've discussed.

 

 

I think he's better than Hill too. Btw, the game I was talking about was Georgia. He (Patterson drops one wide open for 7 in the 2nd qt (which would have helped get them back in the game. He drops a similar pass (wide open bomb for 7) vs. Florida too, but much later in the game. (I was just messing on youtube looking for it.) 

 

Hey, dude has got major potential to be a star, but what a huge risk in the top 10 imo. 

[T0mShane]

I think he's better than Hill too. Btw, the game I was talking about was Georgia. He (Patterson drops one wide open for 7 in the 2nd qt (which would have helped get them back in the game. He drops a similar pass (wide open bomb for 7) vs. Florida too, but much later in the game. (I was just messing on youtube looking for it.)

Hey, dude has got major potential to be a star, but what a huge risk in the top 10 imo.

I'm afraid of all of them. lol

Star--Heart/endurable

Jarvis Jones--Spine, sh*tty workout

Mingo--Production

Jordan--what does he do that converts?

Austin--size

Patterson--experience, instincts

Cooper/Warmack--just guards

Geno Smith--guts

Etc, etc.

Looking back at that 2009 re-draft, think about how much hype surrounded all those players--Jason Smith, Aaron Curry, Robert Ayers. It's sickening to think how much thought went into discussing guys who--mostly because they gave up when they got paid--never made it. I seriously think half the battle is finding guys that will still give a sh*t even after they can pay cash for an Escalade.

[JustInFudge]

I think he's better than Hill too. Btw, the game I was talking about was Georgia. He (Patterson drops one wide open for 7 in the 2nd qt (which would have helped get them back in the game. He drops a similar pass (wide open bomb for 7) vs. Florida too, but much later in the game. (I was just messing on youtube looking for it.) 

 

Hey, dude has got major potential to be a star, but what a huge risk in the top 10 imo. 

 

Both of them drop the ball.  They both dropped numerous slants on the money from Bray vs. Florida. 

[HessStation]

Both of them drop the ball.  They both dropped numerous slants on the money from Bray vs. Florida. 

 

Yeah, Hunter drops 2-3 every game. If he could catch I'd rank him ahead of Patterson. Tennessee did. He was their #1 option. 

Rogers could end up the best pro out of all of them on the right team as a Welker type slot guy.  

[HessStation]

Because no WR is a top nine pick, or because the best WRs will already be gone?

Follow up question: would you take one of the guards ahead of Cordarrelle Patterson or Tavon Austin? Because I wouldn't.

 

You mentioned BAP. My main point is that if you went that route, in this years entire draft, if could very well be Warmack and Cooper as #1 and #2 as BAP. 

[T0mShane]

Both of them drop the ball. They both dropped numerous slants on the money from Bray vs. Florida.

I'll leave this for one of the advanced metrics guys, but the numbers definitely do not bear out that Patterson has issues with drops.

[JustInFudge]

Yeah, Hunter drops 2-3 every game. If he could catch I'd rank him ahead of Patterson. Tennessee did. He was their #1 option. 

Rogers could end up the best pro out of all of them on the right team as a Welker type slot guy.  

 

Hunter was the #1 WR after last season on everyone's draft boards if I remember correctly and now he's boarderline 1st rounder because of his drop problems.  I've got a die hard Vols fan in the office who said the both of them frustrate the sh*t out of you because they can make all world plays and then drop a wide open TD, like the one you described vs. GA.  The game slipped away from them after that drop.