Am I the only one who finds this funny?

[jorge o8]

im one that wants Revis to stay,but you cant pay one player that kind of money if they are not the QB.

[SenorGato]

pace. favre. Faneca. T-rich. B. Scott. S. Holmes. B. Edwards . Tomlinson . Jenkins. D. Woody. The Marlboro man. Lito shepherd . Jason Taylor. The list of aging and/or expensive vets signed by tanny is epic. Throw in the picks he pissed away to boot and you have the anti-idzik regardless of whether or not they trade revis or draft a lineman.

 

First offseason.

[SenorGato]

 

 

Case for not keeping Revis:

His asking price can get us about 3 really good starters, something the Jets need right now.

If we keep him, we will lose the bidding war next year and then only get a 3rd rounder

Jets are not a team that is one player away from SB this year so why keep him now and lose him next year?

He'll hold out again.

We are rebuilding.

We can get two excellent draft picks in his return, plus we'll save the $16mil he'll be making next year towards other FAs.

We didn't have him last year. Our Pass D was still one of the best.

 

 

His asking price even in theory likely gets you one really good starter and a Mike Goodson.

Or you extend him between now and August

He makes you one player closer to the Super Bowl., The team was in contention for a playoff spot with 3 games left despite Sanchez (probably) literally being the worst starter in the league at QB

Anyone good would, should, and does

Rebuilding is for idiots 

Ah, the Grass is Greener, Anonymous FAs of the Future. Always great to hear about those guys. How are they doing?

The pass D fell 8-9 spots in the rankings from where they have been with Revis, and the run game plummeted into the teens for the first time under Ryan. 

[LionelRichie]

that Nick Mangold really sucks, what a sucky trade.  

[Integrity28]

His asking price even in theory likely gets you one really good starter and a Mike Goodson.

Or you extend him between now and August

He makes you one player closer to the Super Bowl., The team was in contention for a playoff spot with 3 games left despite Sanchez (probably) literally being the worst starter in the league at QB

Anyone good would, should, and does

Rebuilding is for idiots 

Ah, the Grass is Greener, Anonymous FAs of the Future. Always great to hear about those guys. How are they doing?

The pass D fell 8-9 spots in the rankings from where they have been with Revis, and the run game plummeted into the teens for the first time under Ryan. 

 

 

Totally agree with the bold.

 

We let Mangini and Tanny sell us on a perpetual "rebuild" of just the defense. We sat and waited for our defense to suddenly become one of Belli's early-career defenses... never happened. Why? Rebuild is what they tell you when sh*t just don't work out.

 

Improve, yes. Rebuild, no... that sh*t implies an ongoing process that could fail as easy as it might succeed.

 

There is no rebuild. There is either getting worse or getting better. "Rebuild" is just PR fluff for dumb fans.

[Integrity28]

that Nick Mangold really sucks, what a sucky trade.  

 

The transition from Mawae to Mangold was a lateral move. Necessitated by cutting Mawae, and facilitated by trading Abraham. That's 2 high-level starters, and the draft pick we got for one of them, as the cost of making a lateral move at the time.

 

It's pretty stupid, to be honest. We cut a center, then have to trade a pass-rusher in order to replace our center. Meanwhile, other positions are neglected and ******* Tannenbaum is trying to bring Andre Wadsworth out of retirement to replace Abraham. 

 

******* insane.

[SenorGato]

It's cool THO. Just draft a guy to replace Revis after the QB shows up. He's coming any year now, and even then gotta save up to pay him 25 million. 

[LionelRichie]

The transition from Mawae to Mangold was a lateral move. Necessitated by cutting Mawae, and facilitated by trading Abraham. That's 2 high-level starters, and the draft pick we got for one of them, as the cost of making a lateral move at the time.

 

It's pretty stupid, to be honest. We cut a center, then have to trade a pass-rusher in order to replace our center. Meanwhile, other positions are neglected and ******* Tannenbaum is trying to bring Andre Wadsworth out of retirement to replace Abraham. 

 

******* insane.

 

It's pretty easy to find fault with Tannenbaum - this roster is littered with bad decisions.    It's pretty hard to claim that drafting Nick Mangold was one of them.    He has probably been the best and most consistent Jet over the last 7 years.  

[SenorGato]

It's pretty easy to find fault with Tannenbaum - this roster is littered with bad decisions.    It's pretty hard to claim that drafting Nick Mangold was one of them.    He has probably been the best and most consistent Jet over the last 7 years.  

That would be Revis, but it's led to no Super Bowls. Trade him too. 

[gangreenman]

Totally agree with the bold.

 

We let Mangini and Tanny sell us on a perpetual "rebuild" of just the defense. We sat and waited for our defense to suddenly become one of Belli's early-career defenses... never happened. Why? Rebuild is what they tell you when sh*t just don't work out.

 

Improve, yes. Rebuild, no... that sh*t implies an ongoing process that could fail as easy as it might succeed.

 

There is no rebuild. There is either getting worse or getting better. "Rebuild" is just PR fluff for dumb fans.

Actually, they did rebuild for three years.  Once they got a coach capable of making adjustments and taking advantage of his player's strengths, they were #1 in just about every statistical category that year (4 yrs after Mangini and Tanny were hired).   I'd say that worked.  The problem is it worked so well, Tanny fell in love with guys like Harris and way overpaid them and the only thing we could afford were some stopgap veterans.   

[SenorGato]

The problem behind falling in like with Harris is this guy:

 

[Integrity28]

It's pretty easy to find fault with Tannenbaum - this roster is littered with bad decisions. It's pretty hard to claim that drafting Nick Mangold was one of them. He has probably been the best and most consistent Jet over the last 7 years.

Mangold is legit. This isn't about him being the draft pick, its about cutting a center and trading a pass rusher to get a center.

2 steps backward, 1 step forward. Ultimately.

Oh well.

[Integrity28]

Actually, they did rebuild for three years. Once they got a coach capable of making adjustments and taking advantage of his player's strengths, they were #1 in just about every statistical category that year (4 yrs after Mangini and Tanny were hired). I'd say that worked. The problem is it worked so well, Tanny fell in love with guys like Harris and way overpaid them and the only thing we could afford were some stopgap veterans.

No, they didn't rebuild. Otherwise success would have been achieves without the need to fire Mangini. No NFL team need 3 years to rebuild one unit, if you buy that load of PR crap you are a sucker. Sorry.

[T0mShane]

No, they didn't rebuild. Otherwise success would have been achieves without the need to fire Mangini. No NFL team need 3 years to rebuild one unit, if you buy that load of PR crap you are a sucker. Sorry.

What Mangini did was give the organization an enema, flushing out the entitled animals left behind by Herm. Rex reaped the rewards of that culture shift, then promptly replaced all those high character guys with animals, and the organization is sh*t again. Rex is Herm with a better defensive mind.

[Sperm Edwards]

The transition from Mawae to Mangold was a lateral move. Necessitated by cutting Mawae, and facilitated by trading Abraham. That's 2 high-level starters, and the draft pick we got for one of them, as the cost of making a lateral move at the time.

 

It's pretty stupid, to be honest. We cut a center, then have to trade a pass-rusher in order to replace our center. Meanwhile, other positions are neglected and ******* Tannenbaum is trying to bring Andre Wadsworth out of retirement to replace Abraham. 

 

******* insane.

 

Oversimplifying a bit, no?

 

You're making this case as though the cost was the same and therefore allowing us to keep the identical talent elsewhere, when it is untrue.

 

Mangold cost $2M per year on his rookie contract (which he played under for 5 seasons without holding out).

 

Abraham got about $8M per year from Atlanta, which is what he was holding out for.  We franchise tagged him (again) for about that much the year he was traded.

 

Mawae was under contract here from 2006-2007 at about $5M per.

 

In 2006 the salary cap was $102M.  In 2007 it went up to $109M.

 

So Mangold was $2M and Keeping Abraham+Mawae was about $13M.  This left $11M per season - over 10% of the salary cap - to use elsewhere on the team.  Whether that was use wisely or unwisely is another discussion.  But there is no way the simple choice was Mangold or Mawae+Abraham and that's the end.

 

What was $11M worth in 2006? Drew Brees was a free agent that year and New Orleans signed him for less than that for 6 years.  So for the same cap space Tannenbaum could have turned Abraham+Mawae into Brees+Mangold.  That he used the $11M foolishly doesn't make the trade bad.  It means he used the cap room cleared badly.

[Integrity28]

What Mangini did was give the organization an enema, flushing out the entitled animals left behind by Herm. Rex reaped the rewards of that culture shift, then promptly replaced all those high character guys with animals, and the organization is sh*t again. Rex is Herm with a better defensive mind.

 

Yeah, I know.

 

Oversimplifying a bit, no?

 

You're making this case as though the cost was the same and therefore allowing us to keep the identical talent elsewhere, when it is untrue.

 

Mangold cost $2M per year on his rookie contract (which he played under for 5 seasons without holding out).

 

Abraham got about $8M per year from Atlanta, which is what he was holding out for.  We franchise tagged him (again) for about that much the year he was traded.

 

Mawae was under contract here from 2006-2007 at about $5M per.

 

In 2006 the salary cap was $102M.  In 2007 it went up to $109M.

 

So Mangold was $2M and Keeping Abraham+Mawae was about $13M.  This left $11M per season - over 10% of the salary cap - to use elsewhere on the team.  Whether that was use wisely or unwisely is another discussion.  But there is no way the simple choice was Mangold or Mawae+Abraham and that's the end.

 

What was $11M worth in 2006? Drew Brees was a free agent that year and New Orleans signed him for less than that for 6 years.  So for the same cap space Tannenbaum could have turned Abraham+Mawae into Brees+Mangold.  That he used the $11M foolishly doesn't make the trade bad.  It means he used the cap room cleared badly.

 

Could have, but didn't. Instead he cut a center, traded a pass rusher, then with the pick he got in the trade drafted a new center... and did nothing to replace the pass rusher. Here we are 5-6 years removed from this transaction and we STILL do not have a replacement for that pass rusher.

 

You make good points about the salary cap implications. However, I don't think I'm over-simplifying this without cause. Tannenbaum cut into two areas we didn't need to address, only to re-address one of them. That's sort of it. Oh, wait, then he told the fan base he was rebuilding with Mangini, in particular the defense. After he just traded the best pass rusher we've had in a decade. Say one thing, do another.

 

Anyway, bash bash bash ... hate Tannenbaum and what he did to this team. I don't like it when I feel duped, and that guy duped me. He duped a lot of us.

[#27TheDominator]

Oversimplifying a bit, no?

 

You're making this case as though the cost was the same and therefore allowing us to keep the identical talent elsewhere, when it is untrue.

 

Mangold cost $2M per year on his rookie contract (which he played under for 5 seasons without holding out).

 

Abraham got about $8M per year from Atlanta, which is what he was holding out for.  We franchise tagged him (again) for about that much the year he was traded.

 

Mawae was under contract here from 2006-2007 at about $5M per.

 

In 2006 the salary cap was $102M.  In 2007 it went up to $109M.

 

So Mangold was $2M and Keeping Abraham+Mawae was about $13M.  This left $11M per season - over 10% of the salary cap - to use elsewhere on the team.  Whether that was use wisely or unwisely is another discussion.  But there is no way the simple choice was Mangold or Mawae+Abraham and that's the end.

 

What was $11M worth in 2006? Drew Brees was a free agent that year and New Orleans signed him for less than that for 6 years.  So for the same cap space Tannenbaum could have turned Abraham+Mawae into Brees+Mangold.  That he used the $11M foolishly doesn't make the trade bad.  It means he used the cap room cleared badly.

 

 

Jonathan Goodwin FTMFW!

[Sperm Edwards]

Jonathan Goodwin FTMFW!

 

He's a good reason why I don't like drafting a guard at #9. He's not going to the HOF, but he was plenty good enough to start - and be an asset - on a championship team.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yeah, I know.

 

 

Could have, but didn't. Instead he cut a center, traded a pass rusher, then with the pick he got in the trade drafted a new center... and did nothing to replace the pass rusher. Here we are 5-6 years removed from this transaction and we STILL do not have a replacement for that pass rusher.

 

You make good points about the salary cap implications. However, I don't think I'm over-simplifying this without cause. Tannenbaum cut into two areas we didn't need to address, only to re-address one of them. That's sort of it. Oh, wait, then he told the fan base he was rebuilding with Mangini, in particular the defense. After he just traded the best pass rusher we've had in a decade. Say one thing, do another.

 

Anyway, bash bash bash ... hate Tannenbaum and what he did to this team. I don't like it when I feel duped, and that guy duped me. He duped a lot of us.

 

Understood.  But it wasn't unsound to make the move if the cap space cleared up was used wisely.  If it is going to be used unwisely, yeah then use it on the guy who's already here who goes to pro bowls, and keep the team in a 4-3.  It's not like we had a nose tackle anyway.

 

The difference between Abraham and Revis, also, is that the move was made largely because it was assumed Abraham couldn't play OLB and Mangini was hell-bent on switching to a 3-man line.  With Revis it's totally different since we're not changing any systems on defense and aren't trading him (excuse me, exploring our options) because we're switching back to Herm's cover-nobody and the league's best man-corner isn't worth it in that defense.

[#27TheDominator]

He's a good reason why I don't like drafting a guard at #9. He's not going to the HOF, but he was plenty good enough to start - and be an asset - on a championship team.

 

Of course you have to develop those guys and not let them walk when they are RFAs.  They might not start from day 1.  Gasp!

[Sperm Edwards]

Of course you have to develop those guys and not let them walk when they are RFAs.  They might not start from day 1.  Gasp!

 

Didn't start from day 1???

 

BUST!!!

 

Thank God we dumped Pouha after 2-3 years.  

[T0mShane]

Yeah, I know.

LOL

[#27TheDominator]

Didn't start from day 1???

 

BUST!!!

 

Thank God we dumped Pouha after 2-3 years.  

 

 

I have to admit that I thought Pouha sucked.  It wasn't cause he didn't start, he just looked like he got pushed around.  Oh well, I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again.

[Integrity28]

Understood.  But it wasn't unsound to make the move if the cap space cleared up was used wisely.  If it is going to be used unwisely, yeah then use it on the guy who's already here who goes to pro bowls, and keep the team in a 4-3.  It's not like we had a nose tackle anyway.

 

The difference between Abraham and Revis, also, is that the move was made largely because it was assumed Abraham couldn't play OLB and Mangini was hell-bent on switching to a 3-man line.  With Revis it's totally different since we're not changing any systems on defense and aren't trading him (excuse me, exploring our options) because we're switching back to Herm's cover-nobody and the league's best man-corner isn't worth it in that defense.

 

 

Yeah, I don't think there's a direct similarity between Revis and Abraham situations. The coincidence begins and ends with them both being defensive players, and the prospect of them both being traded by new GMs. That's it.

[#27TheDominator]

Understood.  But it wasn't unsound to make the move if the cap space cleared up was used wisely.  If it is going to be used unwisely, yeah then use it on the guy who's already here who goes to pro bowls, and keep the team in a 4-3.  It's not like we had a nose tackle anyway.

 

The difference between Abraham and Revis, also, is that the move was made largely because it was assumed Abraham couldn't play OLB and Mangini was hell-bent on switching to a 3-man line.  With Revis it's totally different since we're not changing any systems on defense and aren't trading him (excuse me, exploring our options) because we're switching back to Herm's cover-nobody and the league's best man-corner isn't worth it in that defense.

 

 

You had to bring that up?  Ugh.  Give up Ryan Young for the privilege of losing two excellent corners.  Thanks. 

[Sperm Edwards]

I have to admit that I thought Pouha sucked.  It wasn't cause he didn't start, he just looked like he got pushed around.  Oh well, I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again.

 

I thought the $2M/year extension they gave him (while he was still a reserve) was about the dumbest contract they gave out around that time.  So you're not alone.