Building an Offense

[Jetsfan80]

 The upshot is the OL is the key to this offense considering the rarity of finding a QB who can be successful without a good line.

 

You do realize that Aaron Rodgers was sacked 51 times last year and they still went 11-5.  Sanchez?  Only sacked 34 times.  You build the offense first with a QB, THEN protect him with OL, THEN invest in some weapons.  OL doesn't come first in this equation no matter how much you want to keep pushing it.  

 

Sanchez was never "running for his life" in this offense relative to other offenses.  He's just terrible.  He holds onto the ball for far too long, even when receivers are running free.  Good QB's don't need awesome OL's because they find openings that don't appear to be there to other QB's.  They don't need WR's finding separation, stud RB's, or all kinds of time in the pocket.  

 

Even a guy like Jay Cutler, who isn't nearly as good as Rodgers and really WAS running for his life in 2010 (52 sacks), figured it out and got his team to an NFC Title game.  He was sacked TEN TIMES by the Giants in Week 4.  10.  Sanchez has never had to deal with OL play that bad, not even close.

[Sperm Edwards]

The history of the NFL disagrees with me.  With all due respect, I made it clear that generally it is harder to find a good DL than a good OL.  (Although, left tackles go higher than DL in every draft and they play on the line).  The part you're ignoring is my statement based on situation, not generality.  You draft DL #1 three years in a row and the last OL you drafted higher than the 6th round is Vlad Ducasse.  Tom basically said you've struck out with Vlad, so there's no point in spending more picks on OL when you can get other positions.  But, doesn't it make more sense to continue to work on something until it improves?  I get offensive lineman are very unsexy.  I get that you can plug holes with JAGs from time to time.  But what happens when you can't open a hole, can't protect the passer, can't pick up a blitz and can't get a push on 3rd and short?  You lose football games.  Not saying this draft was bad...the opposite actually.  Idzik finally did something to improve a weakness and provide depth, something ridiculously lacking during the RexenBaum era, so there's hope.  I'd like to see our OL improved over the next two seasons or so.  If that happens, we will have an offense again, no matter who's behind center.

 

I think the point is you don't need to burn a top 10 pick to plug that type of hole at guard.  Ever.

[sirlancemehlot]

You do realize that Aaron Rodgers was sacked 51 times last year and they still went 11-5.  Sanchez?  Only sacked 34 times.  You build the offense first with a QB, THEN protect him with OL, THEN invest in some weapons.  OL doesn't come first in this equation no matter how much you want to keep pushing it.  

 

Sanchez was never "running for his life" in this offense relative to other offenses.  He's just terrible.  He holds onto the ball for far too long, even when receivers are running free.  Good QB's don't need awesome OL's because they find openings that don't appear to be there to other QB's.  They don't need WR's finding separation, stud RB's, or all kinds of time in the pocket.  

 

Even a guy like Jay Cutler, who isn't nearly as good as Rodgers and really WAS running for his life in 2010 (52 sacks), figured it out and got his team to an NFC Title game.  He was sacked TEN TIMES by the Giants in Week 4.  10.  Sanchez has never had to deal with OL play that bad, not even close.

Oh. I get it now. You are reading like the first two lines of my posts and assuming you know the rest. You need a very good oline if you don't have a very good qb. That's what I stated. I also stated elite QBs are rare. The number of elite QBs who can be successful with bad lines is low, whereas its easier to build a good oline that any average qb can operate behind. (See:2009/2010 jets). Your argument is just get a really good qb and we're all set. Problem is Rodgers and cutler aren't coming to ny. If it really was that easy, we could just go get a great quarterback and problem solved.

[SenorGato]

Generally, yes. But situationally, when you run a base 3-4, already have a solid starter at every DL position plus depth, but have weaknesses at RG, LG and RT, it would seem to me drafting at least one stud OL would be a priority. I like Winters, but would have preferred to bolster the line. Neither Mangold nor Brick have been considered elite in the last few years, a direct result of being part of a line thats been ignored for several years.

Jets don't have a solid starter at every DL position. RT also isn't a gaping hole and the G spots were places they felt they could upgrade their athleticism at. The line hasn't been ignored since '06, it was just time for natural turnover.

[sirlancemehlot]

Ok. I think I'm hijacking this thread from how to build an offense and turning it into a philosophical debate on the importance of offensive lineman. I'll cool it for awhile to try to preserve the topic.

[shhwagah]

I would swiftly disagree with that DL vs OL argument. It's insanely harder to find a good DT compared to finding a good OG.

 

But finding a great OT is like finding a franchise QB. Not really but close.

 

To me its simple. Assuming we still want to build around Geno during next year's draft-- we look to get a TE, a WR or 2, a FS who has the ability to cover man-to-man, a pass rusher, a RB, and maybe an ILB. We have a gazillion compensatory picks, so maybe Idzik takes our 10-12 picks and turns them into 11-15 picks? It can happen. Bottom line is the offense needs to be addressed first.

 

Idzik does not seem like the type to trade up for players unless they are VERY special. We know from "sources" he called around to trade down, and I love him for it. 

[j4jets]

All good points about the OLine...but without a legit QB, you can only remain a contender for the Superbowl...

and your right, a successful offense may start with a solid offensive line..but it finishes with a solid QB.

Sanchez had solid performances in all playoff games, especially the ones we lost. Game of football is probably the most subjective sport in USA. Some may argue that games are won in trenches, while some may say great QBs like Manning and Brady can get you rings. A fair combination of both is required, frankly. Great OL can make your liability (Sanchez in 2009 n 2010) look like an asset n vice versa.

[Jetsfan80]

But finding a great OT is like finding a franchise QB. Not really but close.

 

To me its simple. Assuming we still want to build around Geno during next year's draft-- we look to get a TE, a WR or 2, a FS who has the ability to cover man-to-man, a pass rusher, a RB, and maybe an ILB. We have a gazillion compensatory picks, so maybe Idzik takes our 10-12 picks and turns them into 11-15 picks? It can happen. Bottom line is the offense needs to be addressed first.

 

Idzik does not seem like the type to trade up for players unless they are VERY special. We know from "sources" he called around to trade down, and I love him for it. 

 

Idzik also drafts BPA and fills the remaining needs through free agency.  I imagine some of the positions you list above will be addressed in the draft, but only if its the BPA.  And I like that.

[SenorGato]

But finding a great OT is like finding a franchise QB. Not really but close.

 

To me its simple. Assuming we still want to build around Geno during next year's draft-- we look to get a TE, a WR or 2, a FS who has the ability to cover man-to-man, a pass rusher, a RB, and maybe an ILB. We have a gazillion compensatory picks, so maybe Idzik takes our 10-12 picks and turns them into 11-15 picks? It can happen. Bottom line is the offense needs to be addressed first.

 

Idzik does not seem like the type to trade up for players unless they are VERY special. We know from "sources" he called around to trade down, and I love him for it. 

 

Not in the same galaxy. 

 

From there there is nothing I disagree with. They can do whatever they want/need to do if Smith OR Sanchez plays well by "miracle." 

[shhwagah]

Idzik also drafts BPA and fills the remaining needs through free agency.  I imagine some of the positions you list above will be addressed in the draft, but only if its the BPA.  And I like that.

 

 

Very true, very true. BUT, if we have 5 serviceable Guards under contract and its our turn to select and the very best player available is a Guard, I think we pass him and grab a need player.

 

Also, keep in mind Idzik isn't the reachy type, so we would probably trade down to get a player of need. So technically that would be drafting the BPA (edit- to clarify, we would trade down to select the BPA in a need position). 

[shhwagah]

Not in the same galaxy. 

 

From there there is nothing I disagree with. They can do whatever they want/need to do if Smith OR Sanchez plays well by "miracle." 

 

Obviously I was over exaggerating, but good OTs are one of the hardest positions to fill. I'd like to see a list of starting OTs in the league. I'm willing to bet most of them are 1st and 2nd rounders.

[Jetsfan80]

Sanchez had solid performances in all playoff games, especially the ones we lost. 

 

Not really.

 

 

2009

 

@ Bengals (24-14 W):  12-15, 182 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT's

 

Efficient performance, but Sanchez didn't have to do much.  We ran the ball 38 times and the defense took care of the rest.

 

 

@ Chargers (17-14 W):  12-23, 100 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT

 

For any other team, this would be a woeful performance leading to a loss.  However, thanks to Shonn Greene's second straight 100+ yard day and another truly remarkable defensive effort, the Jets came away with another road victory.  We picked off Rivers twice and only allowed 61 yards on the ground.  

 

 

@ Colts (30-17 L):  17-30, 257 yds, 2 TD's, 1 INT

 

Sanchez played well in the first half, but ultimately didn't make enough plays in this one and it came back to haunt us.  80 of those yards were on a play-action run and catch by Braylon Edwards when a porous Colts D was selling out on the run.  Once Shonn Greene hurt his ribs and Peyton Manning figured out the defense, we had no hope of Sanchez leading us to victory.

 

 

2010

 

@ Colts (17-16 W):  18-31, 189 yds, 0 TD's, 1 INT

 

Again, nothing special in this one.  Tomlinson's 82 yards and 2 TD runs plus another monumental defensive effort against Peyton Manning got us the W.

 

@ Patriots (28-21 W):  16-25, 194 yds, 3 TD's, 0 INT's)

 

This was Sanchez's only quality playoff performance, and even in this one, he still failed to get to 200 yards.  He also did it against a Patriot defense that has been woeful in the pass defense department for years now.  Certainly the Jets getting 5 sacks and a crucial David Harris interception were at LEAST equally responsible for the win as Sanchez was.

 

@ Steelers (24-19 L):  20-33, 233 yds, 2 TD's, 0 INT's)

 

Sanchez did absolutely nothing in the 1st half of this game and had a crucial fumble that put the Jets in a 24-0 hole.  By the time he finally got going against a Steeler defense that was playing conservative, it was far too late.

 

 

I count 1 solid playoff performance, 2 mediocre ones, 1 below average one and 2 terrible ones.  Certainly no one can look at the above numbers, especially in the context of today's pass-happy NFL, and conclude that all 6 of these performances were "solid".  Not even close.

[sirlancemehlot]

Not really.

 

 

2009

 

@ Bengals (24-14 W):  12-15, 182 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT's

 

Efficient performance, but Sanchez didn't have to do much.  We ran the ball 38 times and the defense took care of the rest.

 

 

@ Chargers (17-14 W):  12-23, 100 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT

 

For any other team, this would be a woeful performance leading to a loss.  However, thanks to Shonn Greene's second straight 100+ yard day and another truly remarkable defensive effort, the Jets came away with another road victory.  We picked off Rivers twice and only allowed 61 yards on the ground.  

 

 

@ Colts (30-17 L):  17-30, 257 yds, 2 TD's, 1 INT

 

Sanchez played well in the first half, but ultimately didn't make enough plays in this one and it came back to haunt us.  80 of those yards were on a play-action run and catch by Braylon Edwards when a porous Colts D was selling out on the run.  Once Shonn Greene hurt his ribs and Peyton Manning figured out the defense, we had no hope of Sanchez leading us to victory.

 

 

2010

 

@ Colts (17-16 W):  18-31, 189 yds, 0 TD's, 1 INT

 

Again, nothing special in this one.  Tomlinson's 82 yards and 2 TD runs plus another monumental defensive effort against Peyton Manning got us the W.

 

@ Patriots (28-21 W):  16-25, 194 yds, 3 TD's, 0 INT's)

 

This was Sanchez's only quality playoff performance, and even in this one, he still failed to get to 200 yards.  He also did it against a Patriot defense that has been woeful in the pass defense department for years now.  Certainly the Jets getting 5 sacks and a crucial David Harris interception were at LEAST equally responsible for the win as Sanchez was.

 

@ Steelers (24-19 L):  20-33, 233 yds, 2 TD's, 0 INT's)

 

Sanchez did absolutely nothing in the 1st half of this game and had a crucial fumble that put the Jets in a 24-0 hole.  By the time he finally got going against a Steeler defense that was playing conservative, it was far too late.

 

 

I count 1 solid playoff performance, 2 mediocre ones, 1 below average one and 2 terrible ones.  Certainly no one can look at the above numbers, especially in the context of today's pass-happy NFL, and conclude that all 6 of these performances were "solid".  Not even close.

I conclude that the offensive line was the key to winning just about all of those playoff games! Oh! Oops. My bad. Did it again. Sorry. Got, uh, a little distracted there and uh. Won't happen again. (Slowly backs out of thread).

[SenorGato]

Obviously I was over exaggerating, but good OTs are one of the hardest positions to fill. I'd like to see a list of starting OTs in the league. I'm willing to bet most of them are 1st and 2nd rounders.

 

I wish you were willing to research it instead you passive aggressive homework dealer.

[shhwagah]

I wish you were willing to research it instead you passive aggressive homework dealer.

 

Haha...you are slowly getting to know me. For future reference please do not call me out in front of the other students...now turn in your report.

[Jetsfan80]

I wish you were willing to research it instead you passive aggressive homework dealer.

 

 

Haha...you are slowly getting to know me. For future reference please do not call me out in front of the other students...now turn in your report.

 

 

I'll do this for you.  Give me a bit.

[shhwagah]

I wish you were willing to research it instead you passive aggressive homework dealer.

 

Here is something- 

 

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/article-JonathanBales/Running-the-Numbers-1st-Round-Offensive-Tackles-a-Good-Bet/06715444-b549-411d-9482-b94858990fe8

 

This is supporting the theory selecting an offensive tackle in the first round vs defensive tackle, but this isn't really solid stats and its not the exact argument I want to support. There's a small graph showing value units for first round OT vs first round DT. The graph magically shows OTs having higher value, somehow providing evidence for my argument.

[shhwagah]

I'll do this for you.  Give me a bit.

 

Please help with the unruly students lol.

[SenorGato]

Before I clicked on the link I made a mental guess that the article would prove that OL is the safer choice. That is pretty much what the article said. I could believe that without really caring for it.

[jason423]

The history of the NFL disagrees with you. DTs and DEs consistently get drafted in the top five/ten of the draft, while guards and centers rarely -if ever- go that high. You build the two units differently, with the OL much more about being a cohesive group, while the DL plays more like individuals. Aside from franchise-type left tackles, DL are always more athletic than OL. That's why the Jets converted Brandon Moore, and are looking to do more of the same with William Campbell. These are guys who were better athletes than the OL on their college teams, but not good enough to play DL in the pros.

 

Thats true on DE's but teams just waste on  DTs who should be valued like a Guard or Center. The Lions basically screwed their cap for a good 7 years by drafting Suh. We did the same drafting Robertson. DTs dont make enough of a game impact, specifically in todays NFL where teams run all of 40% of the time and probably only 30% of the time when the game in in question. Its better now with the salaries but DTs are way down on the list. Since 2000, 15 DTs have been picked top 10. Kevin Williams is far and away the best while the next best might be John Henderson.You will never find a difference maker at the position that you can point to as a reason for a SB run. 

[Jetsfan80]

NFL STARTING OFFENSIVE TACKLES

 

Bills:  Cordy Glenn (2nd rounder), Erik Pears (UDFA)

Jets:  D'Brickashaw Ferguson (1st), Austin Howard (UDFA)

Dolphins:  Jonathan Martin (2nd), Tyson Clabo (UDFA)

Patriots:  Nate Solder (1st), Sebastian Vollmer (2nd)

 

Ravens:  Bryant McKinnie (1st), Michael Oher (1st)

Steelers:  Mike Adams (2nd), Marcus Gilbert (2nd)

Browns:  Joe Thomas (1st), Mitchell Schwartz (2nd)

Bengals:  Andrew Whitworth (2nd), Andre Smith (1st)

 

Texans:  Duane Brown (1st), Derek Newton (7th)

Colts:  Anthony Castanzo (1st), Gosder Cherilus (1st)

Titans:  Michael Roos (2nd), David Stewart (4th)

Jaguars:  Eugene Monroe (1st), Luke Joeckel (1st)

 

Broncos:  Ryan Clady (1st), Orlando Franklin (2nd)

Chiefs:  Branden Albert (1st), Eric Fisher (1st)

Raiders:  Jared Veldheer (3rd), Khalif Barnes (2nd)

Chargers:  King Dunlap (7th), DJ Fluker (1st)

 

Cowboys:  Tyron Smith (1st), Doug Free (4th)

Giants:  Will Beatty (2nd), Justin Pugh (1st)

Eagles:  Jason Peters (UDFA), Lane Johnson (1st)

Redskins:  Trent Williams (1st), Tyler Polumbus (UDFA)

 

Bears:  Jermon Bushrod (4th), J'Marcus Webb (7th)

Lions:  Riley Reiff (1st), Corey Hilliard (6th)

Packers:  Bryan Bulaga (1st), Marshall Newhouse (5th)

Vikings:  Matt Kalil (1st), Phil Loadholt (2nd)

 

Falcons:  Sam Baker (1st), Lamar Holmes (3rd)

Panthers:  Jordan Gross (1st), Byron Bell (UDFA)

Saints:  Charles Brown (2nd), Zach Strief (7th)

Buccaneers:  Donald Penn (UDFA), Demar Dotson (UDFA)

 

Cardinals:  Levi Brown (1st), Bobby Massie (4th)

Rams:  Jake Long (1st), Rodger Saffold (2nd)

49ers:  Joe Staley (1st), Anthony Davis (1st)

Seahawks:  Russell Okung (1st), Breno Giacomini (5th)

 

 

Of the 64 starting OT's in the NFL, here's the breakdown:

 

1st rounders:  30

2nd rounders:  13

3rd rounders:  2

4th rounders:  4

5th rounders:  2

6th rounders;  1

7th rounders:  4

UDFA:  8

[shhwagah]

NFL STARTING OFFENSIVE TACKLES

 

Bills:  Cordy Glenn (2nd rounder), Erik Pears (UDFA)

Jets:  D'Brickashaw Ferguson (1st), Austin Howard (UDFA)

Dolphins:  Jonathan Martin (2nd), Tyson Clabo (UDFA)

Patriots:  Nate Solder (1st), Sebastian Vollmer (2nd)

 

Ravens:  Bryant McKinnie (1st), Michael Oher (1st)

Steelers:  Mike Adams (2nd), Marcus Gilbert (2nd)

Browns:  Joe Thomas (1st), Mitchell Schwartz (2nd)

Bengals:  Andrew Whitworth (2nd), Andre Smith (1st)

 

Texans:  Duane Brown (1st), Derek Newton (7th)

Colts:  Anthony Castanzo (1st), Gosder Cherilus (1st)

Titans:  Michael Roos (2nd), David Stewart (4th)

Jaguars:  Eugene Monroe (1st), Luke Joeckel (1st)

 

Broncos:  Ryan Clady (1st), Orlando Franklin (2nd)

Chiefs:  Branden Albert (1st), Eric Fisher (1st)

Raiders:  Jared Veldheer (3rd), Khalif Barnes (2nd)

Chargers:  King Dunlap (7th), DJ Fluker (1st)

 

Cowboys:  Tyron Smith (1st), Doug Free (4th)

Giants:  Will Beatty (2nd), Justin Pugh (1st)

Eagles:  Jason Peters (UDFA), Lane Johnson (1st)

Redskins:  Trent Williams (1st), Tyler Polumbus (UDFA)

 

Bears:  Jermon Bushrod (4th), J'Marcus Webb (7th)

Lions:  Riley Reiff (1st), Corey Hilliard (6th)

Packers:  Bryan Bulaga (1st), Marshall Newhouse (5th)

Vikings:  Matt Kalil (1st), Phil Loadholt (2nd)

 

Falcons:  Sam Baker (1st), Lamar Holmes (3rd)

Panthers:  Jordan Gross (1st), Byron Bell (UDFA)

Saints:  Charles Brown (2nd), Zach Strief (7th)

Buccaneers:  Donald Penn (UDFA), Demar Dotson (UDFA)

 

Cardinals:  Levi Brown (1st), Bobby Massie (4th)

Rams:  Jake Long (1st), Rodger Saffold (2nd)

49ers:  Joe Staley (1st), Anthony Davis (1st)

Seahawks:  Russell Okung (1st), Breno Giacomini (5th)

 

 

Of the 64 starting OT's in the NFL, here's the breakdown:

 

1st rounders:  30

2nd rounders:  13

3rd rounders:  2

4th rounders:  4

5th rounders:  2

6th rounders;  1

7th rounders:  4

UDFA:  8

 

 

Dude, you are the man. Thank you very much. 

 

Ok, so without doing the same research on every other position in the league, we can determine that teams should spend high round picks (overwhelming amount of 1st rounders) for a stud OT. I don't think anyone will argue that OTs are vital to a QB's success, definitely more than any other position on the O Line. Maybe more than some other skill positions? Maybe. 

 

Also kinda makes you wonder what the odds of Jets 5th round selection Oday Aboushi becoming a successful placement for Brick or Howard. Oday needs to put on some weight and get stronger, a LOT stronger.

[T0mShane]

Dude, you are the man. Thank you very much.

Ok, so without doing the same research on every other position in the league, we can determine that teams should spend high round picks (overwhelming amount of 1st rounders) for a stud OT. I don't think anyone will argue that OTs are vital to a QB's success, definitely more than any other position on the O Line. Maybe more than some other skill positions? Maybe.

Also kinda makes you wonder what the odds of Jets 5th round selection Oday Aboushi becoming a successful placement for Brick or Howard. Oday needs to put on some weight and get stronger, a LOT stronger.

I think Oday becomes the RG in time, unless William Campbell is able to transition quickly. Austin Howard turned out to be a pretty good player.

[shhwagah]

Before I clicked on the link I made a mental guess that the article would prove that OL is the safer choice. That is pretty much what the article said. I could believe that without really caring for it.

 

Very good mental guess. The article I posted was sh*t, Jetsfan80 nailed it in the face though. I, being the lazy **** I am, will guess that this is the position that most teams spend 1st round picks on versus any other position when applying these conditions: 

• The amount of time Tackles spend in the league
• Injury rate
• Stable positional pay scale

These are the factors that I think keep teams from needing an Offensive Tackle more often than say WR or RB. The percentage of 1st round OTs should still be at the top though. In case you are wondering why I listed stable positional pay scale is-- good offensive tackle can expect a certain amount of pay as opposed to a QB, WR, or RB shattering pay scales each time a new contract year comes around.

 

Am I making any sense to anyone?

[shhwagah]

I think Oday becomes the RG in time, unless William Campbell is able to transition quickly. Austin Howard turned out to be a pretty good player.

 

Oday was a Left Tackle in college I believe but you are right, Brick is getting older. If Austin Howard can play a little better than he did last year he should get a multi-year deal. I like him a lot. So no pressure on Oday to start, but it would be nice to get him out there in the preseason to see what he can do.

[Larz]

I would say most important items are a LT and a true big #1 WR

 

so the true big #1 WR has to be tops on the wish list

[flgreen]

NFL STARTING OFFENSIVE TACKLES

 

Bills:  Cordy Glenn (2nd rounder), Erik Pears (UDFA)

Jets:  D'Brickashaw Ferguson (1st), Austin Howard (UDFA)

Dolphins:  Jonathan Martin (2nd), Tyson Clabo (UDFA)

Patriots:  Nate Solder (1st), Sebastian Vollmer (2nd)

 

Ravens:  Bryant McKinnie (1st), Michael Oher (1st)

Steelers:  Mike Adams (2nd), Marcus Gilbert (2nd)

Browns:  Joe Thomas (1st), Mitchell Schwartz (2nd)

Bengals:  Andrew Whitworth (2nd), Andre Smith (1st)

 

Texans:  Duane Brown (1st), Derek Newton (7th)

Colts:  Anthony Castanzo (1st), Gosder Cherilus (1st)

Titans:  Michael Roos (2nd), David Stewart (4th)

Jaguars:  Eugene Monroe (1st), Luke Joeckel (1st)

 

Broncos:  Ryan Clady (1st), Orlando Franklin (2nd)

Chiefs:  Branden Albert (1st), Eric Fisher (1st)

Raiders:  Jared Veldheer (3rd), Khalif Barnes (2nd)

Chargers:  King Dunlap (7th), DJ Fluker (1st)

 

Cowboys:  Tyron Smith (1st), Doug Free (4th)

Giants:  Will Beatty (2nd), Justin Pugh (1st)

Eagles:  Jason Peters (UDFA), Lane Johnson (1st)

Redskins:  Trent Williams (1st), Tyler Polumbus (UDFA)

 

Bears:  Jermon Bushrod (4th), J'Marcus Webb (7th)

Lions:  Riley Reiff (1st), Corey Hilliard (6th)

Packers:  Bryan Bulaga (1st), Marshall Newhouse (5th)

Vikings:  Matt Kalil (1st), Phil Loadholt (2nd)

 

Falcons:  Sam Baker (1st), Lamar Holmes (3rd)

Panthers:  Jordan Gross (1st), Byron Bell (UDFA)

Saints:  Charles Brown (2nd), Zach Strief (7th)

Buccaneers:  Donald Penn (UDFA), Demar Dotson (UDFA)

 

Cardinals:  Levi Brown (1st), Bobby Massie (4th)

Rams:  Jake Long (1st), Rodger Saffold (2nd)

49ers:  Joe Staley (1st), Anthony Davis (1st)

Seahawks:  Russell Okung (1st), Breno Giacomini (5th)

 

 

Of the 64 starting OT's in the NFL, here's the breakdown:

 

1st rounders:  30

2nd rounders:  13

3rd rounders:  2

4th rounders:  4

5th rounders:  2

6th rounders;  1

7th rounders:  4

UDFA:  8

This definitely sets the fact that most teams get their OT's in the 1st or 2nd round.  A real interesting observation that kind of goes against that policy is the fact that between the 3-7 round only 13 starters were taken.   In UDFA, the bottom of the heap in the draft, 8 were taken.

 

Almost seems to be contradictory.   Wonder why that would be?  

[SenorGato]

OTs go in the first so much because:

- Offensive lines are very important.

- A good one will give you a decade easy, and they tend to be durable.

- They are relatively safe bets. Even if one busts as an OT a teaMm can try to make him a G or swing guy.

[Smashmouth]

We did a great job playing "hide the QB' those 1st 2 years.  We surrounded him with a dominant running game and handed him Holmes, Edwards, Keller, and Cotchery to throw the ball to.  The problem is you can't just keep the other 52 positions around the QB elite.  We're certainly TRYING to bolster the OL and running game right now, but we couldn't fix everything in one offseason.

 

The better solution is find a good QB so you don't have to constantly surround a guy with elite talent and still get poor results.  It's a miracle we made it to 2 AFC title games with Sanchez under center.  The talent around him and the defense all were great.  I'd prefer to try to find greatness at QB than constantly have to improve the other 52 positions all the time.  Draft a QB every season until it happens and plug away at the other spots as you can.  

 

Any other method is working backwards and won't end up with optimal results.  We gave Sanchez that extension, and surprise, he was still terrible.  You can't try to build around a terrible QB.  It will never, EVER work.

 

Once again your bringing Sanchez into a question that was based on the future of the Jets offense. Let it rest already... I think we all know at this point unless Sanchez has some type of devine intervention he will NOT be the QB of the Jets after this season.

 

However to address some of what you posted claiming we built around the QB its simply false/ You build around a young 21 year old QB by adding young skill players the entire offense can grow with over time, NOT by adding 34 and 38 year old bandaids who we all know have the short life span in an offense we witnessed. It takes skill players on offense time to mesh together and get on the same page. The Jets have totally failed in this respect over the past 12 years and I hope it does not continue.

 

When you add a new young QB you bring in players he can grow with, we had the OL and defense in place but failed miserably in recognizing the loss of a solid RT and LG along with some solid role players which caused our once smashmouth offense to fail like they did the past 2 years.  How the Jets went into the season the past two years and dared to talk SB with the holes we had in what made us great the previous 2 seasons was laughable. Almost as laughable as bringing in Drunks, Loudmouth, Selfish bitchs at the WR position and expecting growth all that while not addressing the OL situation and going into the season with scrubs that replaced probowl caliber players.

 

I agree with sirlancemehlot that you build the OL get the QB and then add the skill players when building an offense. Jets just made very POOR choices when adding skill players and I think it had a huge effect on the development of the offense in general.

 

Idzik made some nice moves this offseason building the OL bringing in a few explosive RB's . He did what he could with what was available but its a step in the right direction because they are relatively young players who do not have a lot of mileage on them. Big question is health and with Goodson its the off field issues. I want to see the Jets target a big time WR in next years draft and dump Holmes for good I would also like to see them grab a TE either in the draft or FA that can actully play the position.

[T0mShane]

This definitely sets the fact that most teams get their OT's in the 1st or 2nd round. A real interesting observation that kind of goes against that policy is the fact that between the 3-7 round only 13 starters were taken. In UDFA, the bottom of the heap in the draft, 8 were taken.

Almost seems to be contradictory. Wonder why that would be?

A 280 lb project gets hooked up into an NFL nutrition programcoughHGH, adds 40 lbs and doubles his bench press. Boom. Tackle.

[flgreen]

A 280 lb project gets hooked up into an NFL nutrition programcoughHGH, adds 40 lbs and doubles his bench press. Boom. Tackle.

Your probably exactly right.  If 80 put the LT's first, and the RT's second, which I think he did, it also indicates that if you want a LT, take him in the 1st or 2nd, if you want a RT you can wait until UDFA.  

 

I'm willing  to bet the same holds true for guard.  You will find a lot of converted RT's in college converted to the inside in the 6th-UDFA starting 

[sirlancemehlot]

This definitely sets the fact that most teams get their OT's in the 1st or 2nd round.  A real interesting observation that kind of goes against that policy is the fact that between the 3-7 round only 13 starters were taken.   In UDFA, the bottom of the heap in the draft, 8 were taken.

 

Almost seems to be contradictory.   Wonder why that would be?  

I think I have a reasonable answer.  The OL has very specific parameters for size and strength.  A CB or WR can't be trained to be fast, quick, elusive, etc.  But an athletic lineman or line convert from TE or DL, can be placed on the preactice squad and beefed up over a couple of seasons.  Whereas he might not have been draftable due to his size or strenght, tose things can be achieved over a season or two.  On the flip side, a guy who has all the physical attributes but lacks knowledge and experience can also be developed (as in most other positions).  So you have two avenues for the development of a UDFA lineman, whereas developing positions reliant on speed and wiggle are less likely.

[Jetsfan80]

Your probably exactly right.  If 80 put the LT's first, and the RT's second, which I think he did, it also indicates that if you want a LT, take him in the 1st or 2nd, if you want a RT you can wait until UDFA.  

 

Correct.  I forgot to include a breakdown of LT vs RT in there.

[Jetsfan80]

I would say most important items are a LT and a true big #1 WR

 

so the true big #1 WR has to be tops on the wish list

 

Meh, how many big-time WR's have won super bowls?  Brees won with 7th rounder Marques Colston as his # 1.  Victor Cruz was a UDFA for Eli.  Anquan Boldin was a late 2nd rounder and a free agent pickup for Baltimore.  

 

It's NICE to have a bigtime WR, as it can make an average QB look good.  But how many Super Bowls have Andre Johnson, Megatron, and Larry Fitzgerald won?

[Jetsfan80]

This definitely sets the fact that most teams get their OT's in the 1st or 2nd round.  A real interesting observation that kind of goes against that policy is the fact that between the 3-7 round only 13 starters were taken.   In UDFA, the bottom of the heap in the draft, 8 were taken.

 

Almost seems to be contradictory.   Wonder why that would be?  

 

Well don't forget the sheer volume of UDFA's there are that are given a chance.  When every NFL team decides to take a flyer on multiple OL after the draft is over, you're bound to find some diamonds in the rough.  I wouldn't read much into that.