Hey...Hey...Hey....

[Section 333]

Moore and Slauson > Colon and Peterman. Winters is a non factor at this point. Keep in mind Moore and Slauson played multiple seasons consecutively with the same guys around them, it's a huge hit to cohesion.

Mangold was banged up all last year. Brick had a down year as well. I dont agree that moore and slauson were better than peterman and colon. And howard was good last year. If all stay healthy they are vets. Wont take much to build cohesion. But when I say they will be better im assuming mangold is 100% and brick bounces back.

[bitonti]

 I dont agree that moore and slauson were better than peterman and colon.  

 

Willie Colon has finished the last 3 seasons on IR. Stephen Peterman was rated the 77th best guard in the league (out of like 80 possible). Moore was rated 4th and the OL as a whole was rated 3rd. (All ratings from PFF). There's no way this line is better. 

[Section 333]

Willie Colon has finished the last 3 seasons on IR. Stephen Peterman was rated the 77th best guard in the league (out of like 80 possible). Moore was rated 4th and the OL as a whole was rated 3rd. (All ratings from PFF). There's no way this line is better.

Overall rated 3rd huh?? Did u happen to catch any Jets games last year? Or were u too busy reading your ratings books? The line was an absolute disgrace last year.

[ZachEY]

I saw this Wayans brothers movie once where they were college basketball players, but Shawn Williams died from an arrhythmia and Marlon was super depressed and the crowd was booing him, like, a week later because he was missing so many shots, but then Shawn Williams came back as a ghost and would sneak around the court blocking shots and pulling opposing players' shorts down and tipping Marlon's shots in and they won a title.

Just sayin'. It can happen.

 

Did they really make a black version of Angels in the Outfield?

[bitonti]

Overall rated 3rd huh?? Did u happen to catch any Jets games last year? Or were u too busy reading your ratings books? The line was an absolute disgrace last year.

 

Even if that was true (it's not) there's no objective way these 5 are better than last year's 5. the rookie that everyone hopes is awesome isn't even playing right now.  this is the same logic people use in the QB battle, tearing down last year's team isn't the same as proving this year's team is better. 

[Section 333]

Even if that was true (it's not) there's no objective way these 5 are better than last year's 5. the rookie that everyone hopes is awesome isn't even playing right now. this is the same logic people use in the QB battle, tearing down last year's team isn't the same as proving this year's team is better.

Well the last thing u said certainty makes sense.

In my opinion swapping out moore and slauson doesnt hurt as much as it helps if mangold stays healthy and brick plays to his capability. I also thought howard played well last year. I dont see any way that this line isnt better. Its pretty hard not to tear down last years line and qb play, although I get ur point.

[bitonti]

In my opinion swapping out moore and slauson doesnt hurt as much as it helps if mangold stays healthy and brick plays to his capability. I also thought howard played well last year. I dont see any way that this line isnt better. Its pretty hard not to tear down last years line and qb play, although I get ur point.

 

  even under the best of circumstances, switching out both guards is a big change for any line. And they shopped at the dollar store for replacements.  Slauson was not great but way better than Peterman. Brandon Moore played next to Mangold for 7 years while  Colon can't stay healthy. 

 

I see it the opposite, there's no reason why this line should be better. Why should you expect Mangold to be healthier? cause he's older?  

 

There's a difference between hoping and expecting. I hope the Jets are good I expect them to stink. 

[Greenseed4]

Dam straight no victory to be had. One of those beers that hangs in the fridge for 7 months just waiting to be the only beer there. Im guessing since you knew it was victory that you have had a similar experience.

 

I'm surprised you saved the Imperial Stout for last, expecting different results. 

 

Welcome back to the board, your optimism is refreshing!

[Bleedin Green]

So wait, this thread isn't about Fat Albert?  How disappointing.

[Section 333]

So wait, this thread isn't about Fat Albert? How disappointing.

Nice!

[JoeC36]

It was u. Never met TJ.

good

[bitonti]

 In my opinion swapping out moore and slauson doesnt hurt as much as it helps if mangold stays healthy and brick plays to his capability. I also thought howard played well last year. I dont see any way that this line isnt better. 

 

so dude... did you see the preseason game? Do you still think the OL is better? 

[Sperm Edwards]

Moore and Slauson > Colon and Peterman. Winters is a non factor at this point.  Keep in mind Moore and Slauson played multiple seasons consecutively with the same guys around them, it's a huge hit to cohesion. 

 

Oh please.  You hated Slauson and thought he was a career backup at best and had no business getting drafted as highly as the bottom of round 6.  Then you said he wouldn't make the team and IF he did it's only because the Jets burned an almost-7th-round pick on him and Callahan coached him in college.

 

You basically felt he was a talentless waste of roster space and a complete and utter waste of a draft pick.  

 

Then the Jets decide to not re-sign him and now you're gushing about him.  Unreal.

[bitonti]

 

Then the Jets decide to not re-sign him and now you're gushing about him.  Unreal.

 

its true Matt Slauson was below average and I always wanted them to upgrade. but we can agree he's better than Stephen Peterman, who just blows. Peterman isn't even good enough to be a backup, let alone start. Stephen Peterman is Adrien Clarke level bad. 

 

I think what you meant to say was "thanks Bitonti, you were right about the offensive line not being as good this year"

 

 the dude who started this thread said there was no way the OL couldn't be better why don't you ride him for a while. 

[Sperm Edwards]

its true Matt Slauson was below average and I always wanted them to upgrade. but we can agree he's better than Stephen Peterman, who just blows. Peterman isn't even good enough to be a backup, let alone start. Stephen Peterman is Adrien Clarke level bad. 

 

I think what you meant to say was "thanks Bitonti, you were right about the offensive line not being as good this year"

 

 the dude who started this thread said there was no way the OL couldn't be better why don't you ride him for a while. 

 

No, no, no.  You didn't say Slauson was merely below average.  You said he was unworthy of a draft pick or a roster spot.  That he was basically, on his best day, a backup-level talent who has no business being on an NFL football field.  And you went on and on and on about it the year he was drafted and then the year we (correctly) cut Faneca.

 

And I like riding you better, cutie pie.  If he spouts 1/10th of your inflammatory nonsense about the team, I'll find him more attractive & give him a harder time. 

[bitonti]

No, no, no.  You didn't say Slauson was merely below average.  You said he was unworthy of a draft pick or a roster spot.  That he was basically, on his best day, a backup-level talent who has no business being on an NFL football field.  And you went on and on and on about it the year he was drafted and then the year we (correctly) cut Faneca.

 

And I like riding you better, cutie pie.  If he spouts 1/10th of your inflammatory nonsense about the team, I'll find him more attractive & give him a harder time. 

 

yeah it's true. SLauson was given an NFL career by Bill Callahan. He was not draft worthy based on his athletic "gifts" and he's barely startable. but lo and behold Stephen Peterman is worse.   

 

you want to focus on my so called hypocrisy but you don't give credit where it's due. Say it. Say I am right about the OL. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 years ago Peterman graded out as one of the better guards in the league (PFF or one of those sites).  A year later he was the 2012 version of Peterman, who sucked (and appears to still be a continuation of that one).

 

There is no evidence that Brandon Moore would have been any better.  The guy wants to be retired and that's not a good motivator to get better and stay into it - particularly in a glory-less rebuilding season - as the body gets older, and when everyone knows you're a 1-year stop-gap until the younger guy gets up to speed.

 

Slauson was not "given" an NFL career.  He worked hard enough and played well enough to start, and played well enough for another non-rebuilding team to pick him up to start on their team as well.

 

The guy you liked far better, Ducasse, has been "given" an NFL career.  For a few years, Gholston was "given" an NFL career.  Shall I go on?

[bitonti]

 There is no evidence that Brandon Moore would have been any better.  

 

The guy you liked far better, Ducasse, has been "given" an NFL career.  For a few years, Gholston was "given" an NFL career.  Shall I go on?

Cmon. How could Moore be worse? As for Ducasse and Gholston (and Drob and herman) if you want to talk about  sh*t that was said 10 years ago... well that's your choice. I am not running for office, My track record is better than people realize because you only remember the wrong stuff and I get no credit for the right stuff. 

 

  I am right about the 2013 OL. Which is clearly worse than the 2012 OL. I'll take those apologies anytime.

 

And Mark is gonna start too. so put that in your pipe. 

[Klecko73isGod]

Cmon. How could Moore be worse? As for Ducasse and Gholston (and Drob and herman) if you want to talk about  sh*t that was said 10 years ago... well that's your choice. I am not running for office, My track record is better than people realize because you only remember the wrong stuff and I get no credit for the right stuff. 

 

  I am right about the 2013 OL. Which is clearly worse than the 2012 OL. I'll take those apologies anytime.

 

And Mark is gonna start too. so put that in your pipe. 

 

 

You're like the FBI - your successes are private and your failures are public. 

[JiFtheOracle]

Cmon. How could Moore be worse? As for Ducasse and Gholston (and Drob and herman) if you want to talk about  sh*t that was said 10 years ago... well that's your choice. I am not running for office, My track record is better than people realize because you only remember the wrong stuff and I get no credit for the right stuff. 

 

  I am right about the 2013 OL. Which is clearly worse than the 2012 OL. I'll take those apologies anytime.

 

And Mark is gonna start too. so put that in your pipe. 

 

Didnt know the 2013 season was in the books to make this comparison....

[Sperm Edwards]

Cmon. How could Moore be worse? As for Ducasse and Gholston (and Drob and herman) if you want to talk about  sh*t that was said 10 years ago... well that's your choice. I am not running for office, My track record is better than people realize because you only remember the wrong stuff and I get no credit for the right stuff. 

 

  I am right about the 2013 OL. Which is clearly worse than the 2012 OL. I'll take those apologies anytime.

 

And Mark is gonna start too. so put that in your pipe. 

 

How could Moore be worse? He just could.  He could sign on for another year and then quit because he doesn't want to be the stop-gap OG for a fully-rebuilding franchise, blocking for a QB that made his fat ass a national punchline.  He could also just get worse.  It happened with Peterman.  It happened with Kareem McKenzie (went from top-5 to bottom-5 the next season).  It's happened with others.  Sometimes a guy can have a steep, steep dropoff, and just because you don't expect it doesn't mean it doesn't happen every year to many players.

 

Ducasse and Gholston were hardly 10 years ago.  Hell, Ducasse is still on the team.

 

And you're confusing me with those who said there's no way Sanchez would be the week 1 starter.  I've had a we'll-see approach with that from the moment Garrard quit and it became a 2-man competition.  I still disagree with your silly assertion that the reason Smith dropped out of round 1 is because he wasn't seen as a week-one starter.  I mean you above all people ought to know better than that.

 

If Geno can't get rid of the ball fast enough after only 1 month practicing against the team's 1's (and only getting half those snaps, at that), then I don't want him developing panic-bad-habits.  They're harder to undo than just teaching someone the correct way and letting the game "slow down" a little bit.  But the difference between the quality of his passes and Sanchez's are as clear as night & day.  Plus he supposedly used to break down defenses when he was at the line and audibled more than half his snaps, so I'm a little less worried about his head.  There is pretty much zero chance that, injury notwithstanding, he won't be the starting QB at some point this season.  And it may still be week 1.

[bitonti]

Didnt know the 2013 season was in the books to make this comparison....

 

ok well bookmark this thread then. It's a safe prediction. 

[cr726]

Cmon. How could Moore be worse? As for Ducasse and Gholston (and Drob and herman) if you want to talk about  sh*t that was said 10 years ago... well that's your choice. I am not running for office, My track record is better than people realize because you only remember the wrong stuff and I get no credit for the right stuff. 

 

  I am right about the 2013 OL. Which is clearly worse than the 2012 OL. I'll take those apologies anytime.

 

And Mark is gonna start too. so put that in your pipe.

Bit, for what its' worth I have to give you credit you don't hide behind a screename and are always consistent with your views. I also agree with your views about the current O-Line.

[bitonti]

How could Moore be worse? He just could.  He could sign on for another year and then quit because he doesn't want to be the stop-gap OG for a fully-rebuilding franchise, blocking for a QB that made his fat ass a national punchline.  He could also just get worse.  It happened with Peterman.  It happened with Kareem McKenzie (went from top-5 to bottom-5 the next season).  It's happened with others.  Sometimes a guy can have a steep, steep dropoff, and just because you don't expect it doesn't mean it doesn't happen every year to many players.

 

Ducasse and Gholston were hardly 10 years ago.  Hell, Ducasse is still on the team.

 

And you're confusing me with those who said there's no way Sanchez would be the week 1 starter.  I've had a we'll-see approach with that from the moment Garrard quit and it became a 2-man competition.  I still disagree with your silly assertion that the reason Smith dropped out of round 1 is because he wasn't seen as a week-one starter.  I mean you above all people ought to know better than that.

 

If Geno can't get rid of the ball fast enough after only 1 month practicing against the team's 1's (and only getting half those snaps, at that), then I don't want him developing panic-bad-habits.  They're harder to undo than just teaching someone the correct way and letting the game "slow down" a little bit.  But the difference between the quality of his passes and Sanchez's are as clear as night & day.  Plus he supposedly used to break down defenses when he was at the line and audibled more than half his snaps, so I'm a little less worried about his head.  There is pretty much zero chance that, injury notwithstanding, he won't be the starting QB at some point this season.  And it may still be week 1.

 

so basically we agree on Sanchez. But the Brandon Moore issue doesn't excuse the Peterman signing. The Jets could have done alot of different things. They didn't have to sign the cheapest worst vet on the market. 

[JiFtheOracle]

ok well bookmark this thread then. It's a safe prediction. 

 

I dont really care that much.  Even if there is a decline, it will be slight.  You're acting like the services of Moore and Slauson are irreplaceable...and its just not true.  They could easily be just as good or better.  You just never know.  Howard could take another step, Colon could have a healthy season, Peterman could return to form or Winters could end up being a beast, maybe better RB's and QB play helps improve the line.  Making this prediction now sounds like someone is still upset about wasting a top 10 pick on a Guard.

[dbatesman]

Cmon. How could Moore be worse?

He sat on his couch for five months and was offered a one-year deal by a team with chronic OL issues that had just suffered injuries to both its starting guards.

[T0mShane]

He sat on his couch for five months and was offered a one-year deal by a team with chronic OL issues that had just suffered injuries to both its starting guards.

Brandon Moore is the difference between three wins and ten wins for this team. Book it.

[Sperm Edwards]

so basically we agree on Sanchez. But the Brandon Moore issue doesn't excuse the Peterman signing. The Jets could have done alot of different things. They didn't have to sign the cheapest worst vet on the market. 

 

They signed Peterman during the draft I think, like 5 minutes after drafting Winters.

 

The plan, and the one I expect to see if they're all healthy, is a 2012 line with 3/5 the same as last year and Winters/Colon at guard.  

 

Last year Moore was good, but Colon isn't some horrible dropoff and is like 4 years younger.  And again, there is zero guarantee that 2013 Moore is as good as 2012 Moore (or even 2013 Colon for that matter).  

 

Winters vs Slauson? I don't know since I haven't seen Winters in live action yet, but before long he should be an upgrade from Slauson.  I don't care how they graded out, neither Moore nor Slauson were anything special in 2012.  They were fine.  And "fine" isn't worth re-signing to new contracts when you know you want to go in a different direction plus entering what the GM and his boss clearly see as a throwaway season of sorts.

 

This year is all about low risk high upside.  I'd even throw Peterman in there, bad as he was last year & bad as he may be this year.  Meanwhile Ferguson & Mangold didn't look like pro-bowlers Friday but I don't hear you griping about them.  Peterman was a decent guard before that and is still only 31.  There are far worse stop-gap options, contrary to your belief.  He was brought in here to be a backup, ideally, and a guard who has been his prior team's starter for the past 6 consecutive seasons, and who will take the league minimum, is solidly low-risk/high-reward option in my book.  At least on paper.  He does (or did) belong in the NFL and it seems that having him beats just having an incoming career backup as our backup.

[bitonti]

 Howard could take another step, Colon could have a healthy season, Peterman could return to form or Winters could end up being a beast, maybe better RB's and QB play helps improve the line.  Making this prediction now sounds like someone is still upset about wasting a top 10 pick on a Guard.

 

Howard should be fine, Colon even if healthy is a penalty machine and Peterman will never return to form. Winters will be a beast, 3 years from now. I am "upset" because the dude who started this thread said the OL would be better (and you all agreed).

[bitonti]

He sat on his couch for five months and was offered a one-year deal by a team with chronic OL issues that had just suffered injuries to both its starting guards.

 

Moore was offered double vet min I wonder if the Jets made the same offer would he still be retired? He was the 4th best guard in football last year, even with 5 months couch time he'd easily be the best guard on the roster. I understand guys get old and whatever else but none of it excuses Peterman. Who is seriously the most putrid "starter" i've seen since Adrien Clarke. He's _that_ bad. 

[bitonti]

They signed Peterman during the draft I think, like 5 minutes after drafting Winters.

 

The plan, and the one I expect to see if they're all healthy, is a 2012 line with 3/5 the same as last year and Winters/Colon at guard.  

 

Last year Moore was good, but Colon isn't some horrible dropoff and is like 4 years younger.  And again, there is zero guarantee that 2013 Moore is as good as 2012 Moore (or even 2013 Colon for that matter).  

 

Winters vs Slauson? I don't know since I haven't seen Winters in live action yet, but before long he should be an upgrade from Slauson.  I don't care how they graded out, neither Moore nor Slauson were anything special in 2012.  They were fine.  And "fine" isn't worth re-signing to new contracts when you know you want to go in a different direction plus entering what the GM and his boss clearly see as a throwaway season of sorts.

 

This year is all about low risk high upside.  I'd even throw Peterman in there, bad as he was last year & bad as he may be this year.  Meanwhile Ferguson & Mangold didn't look like pro-bowlers Friday but I don't hear you griping about them.  Peterman was a decent guard before that and is still only 31.  There are far worse stop-gap options, contrary to your belief.  He was brought in here to be a backup, ideally, and a guard who has been his prior team's starter for the past 6 consecutive seasons, and who will take the league minimum, is solidly low-risk/high-reward option in my book.  At least on paper.  He does (or did) belong in the NFL and it seems that having him beats just having an incoming career backup as our backup.

 

If you draft a guy in rd 3 and then sign a player 5 minutes later who plays the same position, what does it say about your draft pick? WInters can't really be in this year's plan. They hope for it but the guy isn't even close to contributing. They didn't sign a DT 5 minutes after drafting Richardson or a CB 5 minutes after signing Milliner. Cause those players are good.  Winters vs Slauson, well at least Slaus played. We haven't seen jack from Winters. This year is probably a redshirt. Or at least until the bye week.  I do like the pick, just like i like the Geno pick. WHat I hate is the sloppy cheap placeholders the team signed that are worthless. 

 

as for Peterman he will never be decent again because his feet are shot. Literally he has an injury that he's never recovered from. He was the 77th worst guard in the league last year (out of 80 possible) according to PFF. He looked atrocious the other night. he might be low risk but there is no upside. He's just bad.  LIke cut him right now level bad. He's about as good a signing as Garrard. He has no value. 

[dbatesman]

If you draft a guy in rd 3 and then sign a player 5 minutes later who plays the same position, what does it say about your draft pick?

That he sucks and we should give up on him. Geno too, because he didn't seize the starting job in the first OTA practice. Not Vlad though. Just give him another three years. That guy's going places.

[Sperm Edwards]

If you draft a guy in rd 3 and then sign a player 5 minutes later who plays the same position, what does it say about your draft pick? WInters can't really be in this year's plan. They hope for it but the guy isn't even close to contributing. They didn't sign a DT 5 minutes after drafting Richardson or a CB 5 minutes after signing Milliner. Cause those players are good.  Winters vs Slauson, well at least Slaus played. We haven't seen jack from Winters. This year is probably a redshirt. Or at least until the bye week.  I do like the pick, just like i like the Geno pick. WHat I hate is the sloppy cheap placeholders the team signed that are worthless. 

 

as for Peterman he will never be decent again because his feet are shot. Literally he has an injury that he's never recovered from. He was the 77th worst guard in the league last year (out of 80 possible) according to PFF. He looked atrocious the other night. he might be low risk but there is no upside. He's just bad.  LIke cut him right now level bad. He's about as good a signing as Garrard. He has no value. 

 

It says the exact opposite of what you're alleging.

 

They were in talks with Peterman from before the draft, but clearly wanted to see who they got in the draft before agreeing to anything with him.  

 

If they got someone good, Peterman would do for camp fodder and maybe a backup role for the season. If we didn't get Winters, and instead got an OG draft pick in later rounds who they liked less (or not at all) I think they would have signed someone better.

 

You don't sign the prior season's worst pass-protecting G in football to be your starter.  You bring him in to be your backup for 1 season and maybe as the guy who starts a game or two.  If they thought they'd need him for 16 games, the veteran wouldn't have been Peterman.

[bitonti]

That he sucks and we should give up on him. Geno too, because he didn't seize the starting job in the first OTA practice. Not Vlad though. Just give him another three years. That guy's going places.

 

I never said give up on these guys. But maybe you repeat it enough times people will "remember" me saying that.

 

This is called reductio ad absurdum by the way. Also known as the straw man. LIttle kids do it alot.

 

if you tell them hey johnny don't eat too much candy and they say FINE ILL NEVER EAT ANYTHING, AGAIN, EVER! 

[bitonti]

It says the exact opposite of what you're alleging.

 

They were in talks with Peterman from before the draft, but clearly wanted to see who they got in the draft before agreeing to anything with him.  

 

If they got someone good, Peterman would do for camp fodder and maybe a backup role for the season. If we didn't get Winters, and instead got an OG draft pick in later rounds who they liked less (or not at all) I think they would have signed someone better.

 

You don't sign the prior season's worst pass-protecting G in football to be your starter.  You bring him in to be your backup for 1 season and maybe as the guy who starts a game or two.  If they thought they'd need him for 16 games, the veteran wouldn't have been Peterman.

 

If they drafted a "good" player they wouldn't need to sign Peterman to start in his place. Good players play right away. No offense to Winters who I think will actually be a good player one day but right now he's a sleeper. They totally screwed up by ignoring Moore and trusting Peterman to do anything this year. Trusting Colon wasn't much better. Everyone say the Jets can't afford good FA, that's not true. They can afford good players by not signing 10 crappy ones.  take the money they flushed on Garrard, Goodson and now Peterman and you can sign one (1) good guard.