Bring Back Fireman Ed

[AFJF]

I like your line of thinking.  Here, tailor this:

 

When I have my tickets in August, you give me $500 face value for each game I can't attend, I'll email you the PDF's, and then you can give them away to Jets fans or let them sit empty.

 

Good?

 

SAR I

 

Why in the world would I buy tickets that would force me to have no choice but to sell them because I can't afford to take the loss?  I choose to stay within the means that my military pay check allows me.  If I were a four star general or a high end executive who could afford that I would do it.  As a working class die hard fan, I buy tickets I can afford to not use if for some reason I can't go to the game.  I think it's great that you're a multi-millionaire and I have no doubt that you became one through hard work and dedication to whatever it is  you do.  If you choose to be reckless with your money that's on you, but not something you should go around encouraging others to take part in.

[RutgersJetFan]

If our RJF is the same guy as the JI RJF then I'd like to know when he changed from a lovable teddy-bear of a grandpa figure into a mean-spirited grouch with the personality of a 20 year old on Twitter.

 

SAR I

 

I don't know where either of these narratives came from but I'm gonna roll with it.

 

So who remembers when hot dogs were a nickel?

[Integrity28]

I contribute to threads, I don't ruin them.

 

I have never chased away a single poster, and the only poster I have an issue with on JN is Integrity who, earlier in this thread attacked me and my family but that doesn't seem to annoy you for some reason.

 

SAR I

 

 

If our RJF is the same guy as the JI RJF then I'd like to know when he changed from a lovable teddy-bear of a grandpa figure into a mean-spirited grouch with the personality of a 20 year old on Twitter.

 

SAR I

[faba]

I don't know where either of these narratives came from but I'm gonna roll with it.

 

So who remembers when hot dogs were a nickel?

Hi Gramps

[SAR I]

Why in the world would I buy tickets that would force me to have no choice but to sell them because I can't afford to take the loss?  I choose to stay within the means that my military pay check allows me.  If I were a four star general or a high end executive who could afford that I would do it.  As a working class die hard fan, I buy tickets I can afford to not use if for some reason I can't go to the game.  I think it's great that you're a multi-millionaire and I have no doubt that you became one through hard work and dedication to whatever it is  you do.  If you choose to be reckless with your money that's on you, but not something you should go around encouraging others to take part in.

 

You are telling me how to spend my money, so I'll tell you how to spend yours.  That's only fair.

 

You seem to think that because I can afford season tickets that I can also afford to eat them if I can't go due to a family event or a business trip.  You seem to think that because you are Mr. Jet Diehard that if in the same situation you'd just use them as toilet paper and leave them empty instead of offering them for sale to make back some of what you paid.  That's a crock.  But the answer is:

 

There are around 20,000 Jets fans who were season ticket holders in Giants Stadium who claimed to be "diehards who were priced out" during the PSL process because they couldn't come up with $5,000 a year for a set of 4 average seats as well as the lofty $16,000 PSL fees atop that.  I get that.  I understand that.  I empathize with that.  I can afford it and I didn't feel good about it.  I know where they are coming from.

 

So flash-forward from 2008 to 2015.  Those 20,000 displaced Giants Stadiun STH's have it great right now.  They can pick any game they want, not get stuck with preseason, not get stuck with Monday nighters, and they can pick any seat in the stadium and pay well below face, they can sit lower level for $75 and upper deck for $50 with ease and with regularity.

 

So where the **** are they?  There are about 14,000 seats on Stubhub each week, about 10,000 of those are well below face, and about 5,000 of those are really great seats that anyone would be thrilled to sit in.  Jets fans don't buy them.  That's not on me.  That's on them.  "Diehard".  Please.

 

SAR I

[Integrity28]

Sorry, but a ticket to an average Jets game costs $50 these days.

 

While I may have the financial means to lay out $5,000 to the Jets every April, there's not a Jets fan alive in the NY area that can't scrape together $50 to attend a game now and then.

 

PSL's and Stubhub have created an amazing opportunity for Jets fans, one that I would have loved back in 1986 when I first entered the work force.  You have seat subscribers who are free to sell their tickets at what the market will bear and you have a delivery system that ensures a competitive pricing environment and vast exposure to millions of known buyers.

 

Jets fans who don't attend games aren't as diehard as those who do.  All the face paint in the world, all the "sitting in my lucky spot", all the pretzels in New York won't change that. 

 

Show up or shut up.  Simple as that.

 

SAR I

 

You're shifting the argument.

 

Initially it was "die hard fans spend money to go to games, I pay $eleventy-billion to go to games".

 

Now, it's "die hard fans go to games, anyone can afford it", because I punched holes in your argument that dollars spent = die hard.

 

By your own argument, it's about more than just the ticket price. There's a huge time and effort commitment as well. Like I said, not everyone has the socio-economic means to go to games. It might be cost, it might be time, it might be logistics. 

 

Game attendance is not an indicator of emotional commitment to the team. It's just a way that emotional commitment to the team manifests itself for fans that are capable. 

 

What if I'm the father of 3 and because of my work schedule, I have to work Sundays. Maybe I work a ton of overtime too. But I love my Jets and I want to share that love with my kids. Maybe me and my kids DVR the game every week and watch it together, because it's our thing. My kids grow up loving the Jets because it reminds them of the time sacrifice and hard work I put into providing for them. It has nothing to do with how much you spend, or how many games you go to. It's what beats in your chest.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think our team needs more fans who show up. I agreed with you about some of those remarks earlier in this thread. I just don't agree with your formula for what makes a die hard, and apparently you don't either since you're redefining it on the fly.

[RutgersJetFan]

Hi Gramps

 

What year is it?

[Integrity28]

 

You seem to think that because I can afford season tickets that I can also afford to eat them if I can't go due to a family event or a business trip. 

 

 

Ahem.

 

You set that precedent over the course of making 60,000 redundant posts since 1994.

[SAR I]

I don't know where either of these narratives came from but I'm gonna roll with it.

 

So who remembers when hot dogs were a nickel?

 

I'd rather you answer the question.

 

What turned you from a nice guy on line at the reservations desk at the Meadowlands Sheraton circa 2005 to someone who plays the Twitter sniper in a discussion forum in 2015?

 

SAR I

[Integrity28]

Forum Cliche #66:  If you are a trolling stalker, accuse others of making useless posts in the hopes that no one notices.

 

SAR I

 

It's this whole like of comebacks that proves Aten wrong.

[RutgersJetFan]

I'd rather you answer the question.

 

What turned you from a nice guy on line at the reservations desk at the Meadowlands Sheraton circa 2005 to someone who plays the Twitter sniper in a discussion forum in 2015?

 

SAR I

 

Musta been those god damn kids with their rap music and twatting about pit bulls and brassieres.

[SAR I]

You're shifting the argument.

 

Initially it was "die hard fans spend money to go to games, I pay $eleventy-billion to go to games".

 

Now, it's "die hard fans go to games, anyone can afford it", because I punched holes in your argument that dollars spent = die hard.

 

By your own argument, it's about more than just the ticket price. There's a huge time and effort commitment as well. Like I said, not everyone has the socio-economic means to go to games. It might be cost, it might be time, it might be logistics. 

 

Game attendance is not an indicator of emotional commitment to the team. It's just a way that emotional commitment to the team manifests itself for fans that are capable. 

 

What if I'm the father of 3 and because of my work schedule, I have to work Sundays. Maybe I work a ton of overtime too. But I love my Jets and I want to share that love with my kids. Maybe me and my kids DVR the game every week and watch it together, because it's our thing. My kids grow up loving the Jets because it reminds them of the time sacrifice and hard work I put into providing for them. It has nothing to do with how much you spend, or how many games you go to. It's what beats in your chest.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think our team needs more fans who show up. I agreed with you about some of those remarks earlier in this thread. I just don't agree with your formula for what makes a die hard, and apparently you don't either since you're redefining it on the fly.

 

What I am saying is that two Jets fans of equal diehardness, the one who makes the effort to attend 5-8 games in the stadium each year is more diehard than the one who stays at home.  I don't think that's a revelation.  I think that's common sense. 

 

As for the money argument, some games last year were $20 on Stubhub, typically a lower level seat is $75 and an upper deck is $50.  Money + Time = Level of Commitment.  You'd say that about your job, you'd say that about your cable bill, you say that about the Jets.

 

SAR I

[Integrity28]

I don't know where either of these narratives came from but I'm gonna roll with it.

 

So who remembers when hot dogs were a nickel?

 

Standard protocol for SAR, he pretends he doesn't know who you are. When he first popped up here, he knew who I was because he saw I was the anti-Rex lead dog, but when I started poking holes in his other rhetoric he started using the whole "who are you, I don't know you" bit with me.

 

What he lacks in creativity he makes up for in redundancy and tenacity. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Standard protocol for SAR, he pretends he doesn't know who you are. When he first popped up here, he knew who I was because he saw I was the anti-Rex lead dog, but when I started poking holes in his other rhetoric he started using the whole "who are you, I don't know you" bit with me.

 

What he lacks in creativity he makes up for in redundancy and tenacity. 

 

I dated a woman named Tenacity once during the Ford administration. Great legs. Then Kraftwerk released Autobahn and we had to end it.

[AFJF]

You are telling me how to spend my money, so I'll tell you how to spend yours.  That's only fair.

 

You seem to think that because I can afford season tickets that I can also afford to eat them if I can't go due to a family event or a business trip.  You seem to think that because you are Mr. Jet Diehard that if in the same situation you'd just use them as toilet paper and leave them empty instead of offering them for sale to make back some of what you paid.  That's a crock.  But the answer is:

 

There are around 20,000 Jets fans who were season ticket holders in Giants Stadium who claimed to be "diehards who were priced out" during the PSL process because they couldn't come up with $5,000 a year for a set of 4 average seats as well as the lofty $16,000 PSL fees atop that.  I get that.  I understand that.  I empathize with that.  I can afford it and I didn't feel good about it.  I know where they are coming from.

 

So flash-forward from 2008 to 2015.  Those 20,000 displaced Giants Stadiun STH's have it great right now.  They can pick any game they want, not get stuck with preseason, not get stuck with Monday nighters, and they can pick any seat in the stadium and pay well below face, they can sit lower level for $75 and upper deck for $50 with ease and with regularity.

 

So where the **** are they?

 

SAR I

 

Are you one of those "dying to be the victim" folks?  At no point did I tell you how to spend your money.  I said that you should not encourage other people to be reckless with their own money.  Those two things are different from one another.

 

I would never use a ticket as toilet paper.  I have real toilet paper and giving it my best guess, I'd imagine a ticket would be uncomfortable at best.

 

The whereabouts of missing Jets fans is a completely different conversation.  Lots of seats go empty for the same exact reason they do in just about every other venue that houses a team with a history of losing.  Not everyone has the stomach for it.  I do, but maybe I really just hate myself?

 

I was talking about the fact that I, personally, would not give or sell my ticket to a fan unless I knew it was going to a Jets fan.  That is, in my opinion, coming up short of being a die hard. 

 

As I've already stated, we have different definitions of die hard.  Mine includes not doing things the benefit the opposing team during a home game while yours does not.

[AFJF]

You're shifting the argument.

 

Initially it was "die hard fans spend money to go to games, I pay $eleventy-billion to go to games".

 

Now, it's "die hard fans go to games, anyone can afford it", because I punched holes in your argument that dollars spent = die hard.

 

By your own argument, it's about more than just the ticket price. There's a huge time and effort commitment as well. Like I said, not everyone has the socio-economic means to go to games. It might be cost, it might be time, it might be logistics. 

 

Game attendance is not an indicator of emotional commitment to the team. It's just a way that emotional commitment to the team manifests itself for fans that are capable. 

 

What if I'm the father of 3 and because of my work schedule, I have to work Sundays. Maybe I work a ton of overtime too. But I love my Jets and I want to share that love with my kids. Maybe me and my kids DVR the game every week and watch it together, because it's our thing. My kids grow up loving the Jets because it reminds them of the time sacrifice and hard work I put into providing for them. It has nothing to do with how much you spend, or how many games you go to. It's what beats in your chest.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think our team needs more fans who show up. I agreed with you about some of those remarks earlier in this thread. I just don't agree with your formula for what makes a die hard, and apparently you don't either since you're redefining it on the fly.

 

That depends...how much did the TV cost?

[Integrity28]

What I am saying is that two Jets fans of equal diehardness, the one who makes the effort to attend 5-8 games in the stadium each year is more diehard than the one who stays at home.  I don't think that's a revelation.  I think that's common sense. 

 

As for the money argument, some games last year were $20 on Stubhub, typically a lower level seat is $75 and an upper deck is $50.  Money + Time = Level of Commitment.  You'd say that about your job, you'd say that about your cable bill, you say that about the Jets.

 

SAR I

 

I guarantee you that there's a ton of out-of-state posters on this website, who dedicate time to this site (and others), money to the Jets store, pay what they need to for things like Sunday Ticket to see every Jet game, and suffer the torment of every loss that are much bigger "die hard" fans than the batchagaloops that buy $20 tickets come to the stadium, get piss drunk, piss on BMW car tires, go into the stadium, act like assholes until they get escorted out.

 

In other words, your argument about game attendance = die hard, no matter how you want to spin it and redefine it, is bunk.

 

This whole conversation is pretty much a direction contradiction to all the other griping you've done in the past about the trashy fans that come to games and ruin the experience. 

[RutgersJetFan]

I guarantee you that there's a ton of out-of-state posters on this website, who dedicate time to this site (and others), money to the Jets store, pay what they need to for things like Sunday Ticket to see every Jet game, and suffer the torment of every loss that are much bigger "die hard" fans than the batchagaloops that buy $20 tickets come to the stadium, get piss drunk, piss on BMW car tires, go into the stadium, act like assholes until they get escorted out.

 

And a small fortune on away games over the years because we're not able to make it back east whenever we'd like.

[faba]

It is simple money spent does not define you as a real dedicated fan- dedication is lot deeper than that with many variables.

[SAR I]

Ahem.

 

You set that precedent over the course of making 60,000 redundant posts since 1994.

 

Of course I could afford to eat the losses, but it would be idiotic for me to do so when I can put another Jets fan, a younger Jets fan, someone like I was back in 1995 in those seats that he otherwise couldn't afford and for below face value and make some of my money back.  Rich people are rich because they know how not to spend money, too.

 

If I'm following your logic:

 

I should eat $500 for each of the 3 games I can't attend each year

 

-or-

 

I should give them away for free to known Jets fans

 

-but-

 

None of us should have any expectations that Jets fans should actually be asked to pay for seats that they have the good fortune of having an opportunity to purchase at very reasonable prices.

 

How about this one:

 

Jets fans have big mouths and are cheap.

 

SAR I

[SAR I]

Standard protocol for SAR, he pretends he doesn't know who you are. When he first popped up here, he knew who I was because he saw I was the anti-Rex lead dog, but when I started poking holes in his other rhetoric he started using the whole "who are you, I don't know you" bit with me.

 

What he lacks in creativity he makes up for in redundancy and tenacity. 

 

I don't pay attention to the backstories of other posters.  I hit the forum, I see a topic that interests me, I post something.  The only reason you stand out from any other poster is because of your avatar.  Take Bumble away, you're just a guy who attacks other posters too much.

 

Something strange on JN that didn't take place on JI is this need for recognition, this need to be "lead dog" as you put it.  Very important to some of you.  People read the posts, they really don't care who posted it.

 

SAR I

[SAR I]

I guarantee you that there's a ton of out-of-state posters on this website, who dedicate time to this site (and others), money to the Jets store, pay what they need to for things like Sunday Ticket to see every Jet game, and suffer the torment of every loss that are much bigger "die hard" fans than the batchagaloops that buy $20 tickets come to the stadium, get piss drunk, piss on BMW car tires, go into the stadium, act like assholes until they get escorted out.

 

In other words, your argument about game attendance = die hard, no matter how you want to spin it and redefine it, is bunk.

 

This whole conversation is pretty much a direction contradiction to all the other griping you've done in the past about the trashy fans that come to games and ruin the experience. 

 

For the record, I like the stadium just as it is.  I don't care if half the fans are rooting for the other team.  I have seats I love, I sit near other diehards that I love, I have excellent ingress/egress, no lines for bathrooms/concessions, decent parking, and I can make it to the stadium in under 20 minutes if I leave early enough.  With the sole exception of the filthy tailgating situation, MetLife is clean as a whistle, no leaks, no smoking, no drunken louts.  I have no complaints.

 

This entire conversation has to do with Firefraud and why no one cares enough to chant anymore.  And to that, you have your answer.  For those who want it fixed, great, tell your friends to spend $50 and attend a few games a year and the place will rock.  Blocks out the enemy fans, gives Ed a larger canvas with which to work, problem solved.

 

SAR I

[Integrity28]

Of course I could afford to eat the losses, but it would be idiotic for me to do so when I can put another Jets fan, a younger Jets fan, someone like I was back in 1995 in those seats that he otherwise couldn't afford and for below face value and make some of my money back.  Rich people are rich because they know how not to spend money, too.

 

If I'm following your logic:

 

I should eat $500 for each of the 3 games I can't attend each year

 

-or-

 

I should give them away for free to known Jets fans

 

-but-

 

None of us should have any expectations that Jets fans should actually be asked to pay for seats that they have the good fortune of having an opportunity to purchase at very reasonable prices.

 

How about this one:

 

Jets fans have big mouths and are cheap.

 

SAR I

 

I'm not telling you to eat the losses. I'm saying you've set the precedent that you are SOOOOO rich that you could afford to eat the losses over the course of time you've been redundantly talking about how rich you are.

 

You really can't follow any of this, eh?

[SAR I]

It is simple money spent does not define you as a real dedicated fan- dedication is lot deeper than that with many variables.

 

I'm sorry, but a facepainter sitting in his basement with a bag of Doritos in Paramus is not as diehard as a season ticket holder in Huntington Station.  It only takes $50 for that fan to get himself to the stadium and make noise and chant and do all those things the stay-home types whine about and yet he doesn't do it.

 

That's not "diehard".  That's complacent.  And that's what drove Fireman Ed away and why he won't come back.

SAR I

[Integrity28]

I don't pay attention to the backstories of other posters.  I hit the forum, I see a topic that interests me, I post something.  The only reason you stand out from any other poster is because of your avatar.  Take Bumble away, you're just a guy who attacks other posters too much.

 

Something strange on JN that didn't take place on JI is this need for recognition, this need to be "lead dog" as you put it.  Very important to some of you.  People read the posts, they really don't care who posted it.

 

SAR I

 

Oh, is that it?

[SAR I]

I'm not telling you to eat the losses. I'm saying you've set the precedent that you are SOOOOO rich that you could afford to eat the losses over the course of time you've been redundantly talking about how rich you are.

 

You really can't follow any of this, eh?

 

I only talk about money when others challenge me, call me a liar.

 

As far as its impact on discussions, they stop throwing their poverty in my face, I'll stop throwing my wealth in theirs.

 

SAR I

[Integrity28]

For the record, I like the stadium just as it is.  I don't care if half the fans are rooting for the other team.  I have seats I love, I sit near other diehards that I love, I have excellent ingress/egress, no lines for bathrooms/concessions, decent parking, and I can make it to the stadium in under 20 minutes if I leave early enough.  With the sole exception of the filthy tailgating situation, MetLife is clean as a whistle, no leaks, no smoking, no drunken louts.  I have no complaints.

 

This entire conversation has to do with Firefraud and why no one cares enough to chant anymore.  And to that, you have your answer.  For those who want it fixed, great, tell your friends to spend $50 and attend a few games a year and the place will rock.  Blocks out the enemy fans, gives Ed a larger canvas with which to work, problem solved.

 

SAR I

 

Pivot.

[SAR I]

Oh, is that it?

 

Yup.

 

I had, what, 40,000 posts on Jets Insider, averaged around 12 posts a day for 10 years, interacted with hundreds of posters, I think I can remember 5 of them.

 

I'm not here to entertain you; I'm here to entertain me. 

 

SAR I

[Integrity28]

I only talk about money when others challenge me, call me a liar.

 

As far as its impact on discussions, they stop throwing their poverty in my face, I'll stop throwing my wealth in theirs.

 

SAR I

 

This isn't true. Historically with you, and in this specific example. Primarily because your wealth is make-believe, secondarily because you orient most contributions you make to any discussion around make-believe wealth as it relates to whatever the true subject is.

 

Case in point, you began an entirely new argument in this thread based on the premise that you spend money, therefore you are more of a die hard fan. An obvious lightning rod for discussion, because it's ridiculous and you understand that make-believe wealth is an effective way of trolling working class fans. You've done it for years. It usually goes well, because they get heated and don't pace themselves enough to pull our silly counterpoints apart. Like I do.

 

Just a bumble. 

[Integrity28]

Yup.

 

I had, what, 40,000 posts on Jets Insider, averaged around 12 posts a day for 10 years, interacted with hundreds of posters, I think I can remember 5 of them.

 

I'm not here to entertain you; I'm here to entertain me. 

 

SAR I

 

That's nice. It has nothing at all to do with the previous statement I replied to, but it's nice. 

[Integrity28]

I'm sorry, but a facepainter sitting in his basement with a bag of Doritos in Paramus is not as diehard as a season ticket holder in Huntington Station.  It only takes $50 for that fan to get himself to the stadium and make noise and chant and do all those things the stay-home types whine about and yet he doesn't do it.

 

That's not "diehard".  That's complacent.  And that's what drove Fireman Ed away and why he won't come back.

SAR I

 

Pivot.

[Flushing Roots]

I'm going to take a dump on my high powered toilet.

[sec331]

Yup.

 

I had, what, 40,000 posts on Jets Insider, averaged around 12 posts a day for 10 years, interacted with hundreds of posters, I think I can remember 5 of them.

 

I'm not here to entertain you; I'm here to entertain me. 

 

SAR I

I wonder how many big time NY executives spend this much time of their day posting on forums? And still are able to make soooo much money.

By the way, by definition.... A true die hard, and I mean a TRUE die hard is one who never misses a game for no matter the reason.

[joewilly12]

Too bad we couldn't get Fireman Ed here to post to hear his side of the story fan vs fan over Fireman Ed is getting boring.

[Flushing Roots]

I wonder how many big time NY executives spend this much time of their day posting on forums? And still are able to make soooo much money.

By the way, by definition.... A true die hard, and I mean a TRUE die hard is one who never misses a game for no matter the reason.

 

 

Ultimate diehard fan is Ira from Staten Island.

From what I understand, he goes to every home AND away game.