Can the Jets steal the Draft or...........

[JetBlue]

1 minute ago, Kevin L said:

CrazyCarl said he was the best earlier in the thread.

Okay, the truth of the matter is I can see him becoming their best pass rusher.  He just needs the playing time which he will get this year.   

[Kevin L]

2 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

" For all the talk on this board about the need for the Jets to get more pressure on the QB, people sure are eager to just trade away our best pass rusher. "

LM was a rookie in part time duty. Get over Mo. He's as good as gone. As steady as he was he was on the field and upstanding as he was off the field he was never an explosive play maker. 

So you want to get rid of our best proven pass rusher in the hopes that a part time player turns into Von Miller?

[Kevin L]

Just now, JetBlue said:

Okay, the truth of the matter is I can see him becoming their best pass rusher.  He just needs the playing time which he will get this year.   

I hope you're right but I'm not giving up Mo in the hope that he does.

[Irish Jet]

Our best pass rusher is the guy most of this board want us to trade, so that we can potentially get a chance to get a potentially productive pass rusher.

Easily the most underrated Jet I've ever seen, at least among Jets fans.

[Beerfish]

8 hours ago, Kevin L said:

Mauldin is a liability in coverage and seems like a one trick pony at this point. And that trick isn't even all that great. I'd love for him to take a huge step forwardin his development, but it's not set in stone that he can or will.

No he was very good as a pass rusher if you look at the number of sacks per defensive snaps played.  I'm not saying he is some kind of elite speed guy but he had a very good year last year on very limited snaps compared to many other established and rookie pass rushers.

[JetBlue]

Just now, Kevin L said:

So you want to get rid of our best proven pass rusher in the hopes that a part time player turns into Von Miller?

Mo is history; not because we want him gone but we can't meet his salary demands.  Before last season the most Sacks he ever had was what 8 or 9?  Our "part time player" as you call him had half of that in "part time duty" as a raw rookie, and also missed a quarter of season with injury.    I personally hate this system that prevents teams from keeping all of it's best players but that is the way it is.  

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

100% agreed. Didnt read past this point but loved it.

if you're going to do wings on Draft night, might I make a suggestion to you my good friend?

http://centrevilleva.bonchon.com/

[Kevin L]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

No he was very good as a pass rusher if you look at the number of sacks per defensive snaps played.  I'm not saying he is some kind of elite speed guy but he had a very good year last year on very limited snaps compared to many other established and rookie pass rushers.

I get that. Marcus Williams had a lot of INTS on a low snap count. Does that mean we can cut Revis? Mauldin hasn't proven anything yet.

[JetBlue]

3 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

I hope you're right but I'm not giving up Mo in the hope that he does.

You realize that one has little to do with the other, right?  Mo is going because we have Richardson and Williams, not because of Mauldin. 

[JetBlue]

1 minute ago, Kevin L said:

I get that. Marcus Williams had a lot of INTS on a low snap count. Does that mean we can cut Revis? Mauldin hasn't proven anything yet.

Do you understand how the salary cap works?? 

[Kevin L]

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

You realize that one has little to do with the other, right?  Mo is going because we have Richardson and Williams, not because of Mauldin. 

So we get rid of Mo because of 2 guys who get to the QB even less than he does.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

if you're going to do wings on Draft night, might I make a suggestion to you my good friend?

http://centrevilleva.bonchon.com/

Been there  OUSTANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JetBlue]

1 minute ago, Kevin L said:

So we get rid of Mo because of 2 guys who get to the QB even less than he does.

Again, I have to ask, do you understand how the salary cap works?  

[CrazyCarl40]

6 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

I get that. Marcus Williams had a lot of INTS on a low snap count. Does that mean we can cut Revis? Mauldin hasn't proven anything yet.

No. But it meant they could cut Cromartie. 

Mo is a good player who wants to be paid like a great player. He averages 7 sacks a year. That's not a great pass rusher, he's adequate. Not a game changer as a pass rusher. 

[Kevin L]

Just now, JetBlue said:

Again, I have to ask, do you understand how the salary cap works?  

I do and I think he's the type of player you keep as long as his demands aren't completely outrageous.

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

I get that. Marcus Williams had a lot of INTS on a low snap count. Does that mean we can cut Revis? Mauldin hasn't proven anything yet.

He's proven enough for the coach who is very cautious with his words has said he expects mauldin to have a much bigger role.  This does not mean we do not need another edge rusher but he showed quite well last year in that area for a 3rd rounder.

As for the whole mo wilk bit, we want to keep him but the jets are not going to pay him more than he is deemed worth.  Also outside pass rush brings a different dynamic than an inside one.

[Embrace the Suck]

21 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

So you want to get rid of our best proven pass rusher in the hopes that a part time player turns into Von Miller?

No, I simply understand that we are very talent heavy on the dline as opposed to every other position where we are not so talented. Keeping a redundant dlineman for 16+ million hurts your chances of filling out the roster which will mean much more success for the team than one overrated dlineman. He's a really good player, I don't deny that, but he isn't elite. Put him on a Dline that doesn't have two other high firsts and a great NT and he'll get doubled out of the game. The money is better spent making multiple positions better as Mo doesn't change the dynamic of the game as others do. Trading Mo for picks also helps move the talent around instead of being concentrated along the dline. 

[Beerfish]

17 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Our best pass rusher is the guy most of this board want us to trade, so that we can potentially get a chance to get a potentially productive pass rusher.

Easily the most underrated Jet I've ever seen, at least among Jets fans.

No one wants to trade Mo wilk so we can get a referent pass rusher, that is pretty well false.  The one and only reason his name is out there is becasue he is due for a huge contract that the jets don't want to pay by the looks of it.  Part of this is is forward panning, we have other inferiority dline that will want to be paid, and the fact that they blew almost all cap space last year.  (Too much on the secondary imo)

[Kevin L]

20 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Our best pass rusher is the guy most of this board want us to trade, so that we can potentially get a chance to get a potentially productive pass rusher.

Easily the most underrated Jet I've ever seen, at least among Jets fans.

Mind boggling 

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Again, I have to ask, do you understand how the salary cap works?  

I do.  Give 16 mil/year to an old, slow CB who can't cover even vs. an average QB, who costs us a playoff berth, and whatever is left can go to the other players.

[Kevin L]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I do.  Give 16 mil/year to an old, slow CB who can't cover even vs. an average QB, who costs us a playoff berth, and whatever is left can go to the other players.

But Mo is the problem, right?

[Embrace the Suck]

8 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

Mind boggling 

Only if you don't understand the salary cap and the fact that there are 22 starters and backups who also need to be paid. Are you going to pay Sheldon and Leonard 16 million a year as well? Assuming Sheldon stays out of trouble he's better and younger than Wilk so is Leonard. We'll have to pay some lbs, dbs, ol, ect as well. Never mind that we still have to pay a QB. Paying Mo does what? Maybe he gets another 12 sacks... Big deal. It'll be much harder to get better at other positions due to his huge contract. Throw in the fact that his replacement is already on the team and it isn't a tough decision.

[Kevin L]

1 minute ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Only if you don't understand the salary cap and the fact that there are 22 starters and backups who also need to be paid. Are you going to pay Sheldon and Leonard 16 million a year as well? Assuming Sheldon stays out of trouble he's better and younger than Wilk so is Leonard. We'll have to pay some lbs, dbs, ol, ect as well. Never mind that we still have to pay a QB. Paying Mo does what? Maybe he gets another 12 sacks... Big deal. It'll be much harder to get better at other positions due to his huge contract.

I have to ask, what makes you think Sheldon and Leo are better than Mo?

[JetBlue]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I do.  Give 16 mil/year to an old, slow CB who can't cover even vs. an average QB, who costs us a playoff berth, and whatever is left can go to the other players.

So you were against bringing Revis back at the time when we had a SERIOUS need at corner?  Or is this some serious monday morning quarterbacking?  By the way did he throw three interceptions too?  

[Embrace the Suck]

17 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

I have to ask, what makes you think Sheldon and Leo are better than Mo?

They're both more explosive. They're both younger. They're both currently less expensive. I see their play on the field and the other two stand out making plays. Again, I'm not saying Mo is sh*t, but we have a glut of talent at DL and are lacking talent at most other positions. The jets need to use their resources wisely and over paying Mo gets us nowhere. Our super unit DLine didn't make a difference against good teams last year.

[Kevin L]

9 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

They're both more explosive. They're both younger. They're both currently less expensive. I see their play on the field and the other two stand out making plays. Again, I'm not saying Mo is sh*t, but we have a glut of talent at DL and are lacking talent at most other positions. The jets need to use their resources wisely and over paying Mo gets us nowhere. Our super unit DLine didn't make a difference against good teams last year.

I see what you're saying. I don't agree that Sheldon and Leo are better. I also don't agree that trading your best players for picks that might not pan out is the wisest course. You end up creating more holes unless you're very lucky. And the Jets aren't that lucky.

[Rangers9]

My guess would be we don't steal anything. We'll take what we have at 20 although Mac will be on the phones. I'd love to see him trade down and he's hinted that because he wants more picks. Last year no trade up but Williams surprisingly fell to us when Wash took the OL. 

[Embrace the Suck]

59 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

I see what you're saying. I don't agree that Sheldon and Leo are better. I also don't agree that trading your best players for picks that might not pan out is the wisest course. You end up creating more holes unless you're very lucky. And the Jets aren't that lucky.

I can't disagree there. The jets are anything but lucky. Lets assume Leo and Sheldon aren't better than Mo. Say equal or maybe even a small step below. What does paying Mo 15+ million get you? A cap with even less space is one of the obvious results, and what's the outcome of that? Yes, picks could flop, if business were easy we'd all be successful. It's a calculated risk, but less of one when considering what happens if you pay him. You can't pay everyone. The Texans pay Watt because aside from being a game changer he's the face of their franchise. Mo is neither. Trading Mo frees up a large amount of cap space and gets you multiple picks. Plus Mo's already replaced so it doesn't really create a hole. Hopefully unlike like the financially savvy hot mess known as Idzik Mike will use those picks well.  

[Kevin L]

25 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

I can't disagree there. The jets are anything but lucky. Lets assume Leo and Sheldon aren't better than Mo. Say equal or maybe even a small step below. What does paying Mo 15+ million get you? A cap with even less space is one of the obvious results, and what's the outcome of that? Yes, picks could flop, if business were easy we'd all be successful. It's a calculated risk, but less of one when considering what happens if you pay him. You can't pay everyone. The Texans pay Watt because aside from being a game changer he's the face of their franchise. Mo is neither. Trading Mo frees up a large amount of cap space and gets you multiple picks. Plus Mo's already replaced so it doesn't really create a hole. Hopefully unlike like the financially savvy hot mess known as Idzik Mike will use those picks well.  

My concern is that we'll be in the same situation with Sheldon in a few years. I don't want to lose the arguably better player now only to have to pay the lesser player the same amount if not more.

[Embrace the Suck]

57 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

My concern is that we'll be in the same situation with Sheldon in a few years. I don't want to lose the arguably better player now only to have to pay the lesser player the same amount if not more.

It's a valid concern, but it's the nature of business long term short term risk reward it's a fluid dynamic. For all we know Sheldon gets banned for a season. Remember though in 2 or 3 years Mo will be approaching 30 anyway. At that point hopefully we'll trade Sheldon for multiple picks. I don't think tying up money in d-linemen is a smart move, unless it a true HoF game changer type guy. 3-4 d-linemen are essentially space eaters. We simply have athletic ones that can make some plays.  Lbs that can cover, play the run, and rush the passer are players you invest in on D. We've had a great dline and sh*t lbs for a long time and it shows against he better teams in the league. Mo can't cover tes and rbs. Nor is he a threat off the edge, definitely not on a regular basis.

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, JetBlue said:

So you were against bringing Revis back at the time when we had a SERIOUS need at corner?  Or is this some serious monday morning quarterbacking?  By the way did he throw three interceptions too?  

I wasn't a huge fan of it if I recall, no.

And we'd have won, three INT's or not, if Revis could have covered anything.  Revis = 16 million Fitz = Veteran JAG for like $0.50

Stop the idol worship and Revis Island tripe, Revis cost us that game above and beyond any other individual player.  He was paid like Dion sander, and yet was burnt toast all day long.

We better hope he recovers or this will be a long year of Revis/Skrine letting up TD's.

[JetBlue]

Just now, Warfish said:

I wasn't a huge fan of it if I recall, no.

And we'd have won, three INT's or not, if Revis could have covered anything.  Revis = 16 million Fitz = Veteran JAG for like $0.50

Stop the idol worship and Revis Island tripe, Revis cost us that game above and beyond any other individual player.  He was paid like Dion sander, and yet was burnt toast all day long.

We better hope he recovers or this will be a long year of Revis/Skrine letting up TD's.

You have a bad habit of talking down to people; no one is idol worshiping anyone.  Revis didn't have the best game but if Fitzpatrick throws a td instead of one of his 3 ints in the endzone we still win the game. See how that works?   Sorry if you expected Revis of 2012 but father time catches up with everyone and imho he still had a very good season.  

[JetBlue]

3 hours ago, Kevin L said:

I see what you're saying. I don't agree that Sheldon and Leo are better. I also don't agree that trading your best players for picks that might not pan out is the wisest course. You end up creating more holes unless you're very lucky. And the Jets aren't that lucky.

If  Sheldon is not better, he is just as good.  Williams was a rookie last year and should come back even better; we really don't know how good is going to be. 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

You have a bad habit of talking down to people

I don't see it as bad.  

The average Fan is a mouth-breathing ignoramus who simply vomits up whatever ESPN tells them.  They tend to use phrases like "Revis Island" and cheer when over the hill post-injury CB's are signed for 16 million a year.

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Revis didn't have the best game

No, he had a horrific game where he was burned by a 2-bit JAG QB all day long, at every moment when our vauntd D needed to make a vital stop.

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

....but if Fitzpatrick throws a td instead of one of his 3 ints in the endzone we still win the game. See how that works?

Guess I hold my 16 million Franchise CB to a different production standard int he big moment than my JAG castoff QB playing without any running game.

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

   Sorry if you expected Revis of 2012 but father time catches up with everyone and imho he still had a very good season.  

Which is why locking up so much cap on his was foolish and short sighted.  

[Kevin L]

7 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

If  Sheldon is not better, he is just as good.  Williams was a rookie last year and should come back even better; we really don't know how good is going to be. 

It's close as far as talent goes, but if I'm a GM I'm giving the big contract to the guy without the off field issues.