nyjunc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Just now, PFSIKH said: He took over a 3-13 team. They won 6 games the next year. That is doubling the win total and hardly a downward spiral. They won 7 games the next two years before winning 11 in year four. Who knows how things would have gone if Model did not announce the move until after the season. They were 4-4 when he did. Again, as I said in the post you quoted, kind of the comprehension thing, I said he made mistakes in Cleveland. His experience in Cleveland helped form how he handles things in New England. If you add the 3-13 before that, you have a better perspective of what he did. his first year he won 6, last year he won 5. what a job! they peaked in 1994 w/ 11 wins 1994 11 wins 1995 5 wins 1996(Bal) 4 wins 1997 6 wins 1998 6 wins it was a downward spiral. his experience in Cleveland didn't really help until Tom Brady became the QB. and one year before 3-13 they were in the AFC Championship Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 On 6/29/2016 at 7:46 AM, PatsFanTX said: Unethical? 4 Super Bowl titles in 15 years is the only thing that matters. If you want ethical, go watch some Pop Warner games on Sunday. cheers ~ ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 hours ago, PFSIKH said: He took over a 3-13 team. They won 6 games the next year. That is doubling the win total and hardly a downward spiral. They won 7 games the next two years before winning 11 in year four. Who knows how things would have gone if Model did not announce the move until after the season. They were 4-4 when he did. Again, as I said in the post you quoted, kind of the comprehension thing, I said he made mistakes in Cleveland. His experience in Cleveland helped form how he handles things in New England. If you add the 3-13 before that, you have a better perspective of what he did. He sent an entire franchise into a death spiral and was destroyed in the press by the owner, the GM, he media and fans. All for one winning season. you want to call that success, go for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 6 hours ago, nyjunc said: he's the key factor, the main factor, whatever you want to call it. w/o him BB would be a DC somewhere today. w/o him they don't win any of those Super Bowls. So let me get this straight. What you're saying is that because BB had a losing record in Cleveland and didn't win until he went to New England and Brady came aboard this is proof the Brady not Beli made the Patriots. So ok, what you're doing then is taking one variable (although an important one) among many and making a conclusion. Kind of like wearing horse blinders and a little dose of tunnel vision but I see your point.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 He sent an entire franchise into a death spiral and was destroyed in the press by the owner, the GM, he media and fans. All for one winning season. you want to call that success, go for it Do you have a clue? BB took over a 3-13 team and turned the entire roster over by 78% and got them in the playoffs. And then a dumbass owner announces mid-season that he is moving the team. Vince Lombardi would have failed under those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Just now, Rangers9 said: So let me get this straight. What you're saying is that because BB had a losing record in Cleveland and didn't win until he went to New England and Brady came aboard this is proof the Brady not Beli made the Patriots. So ok, what you're doing then is taking one variable (although an important one) among many and making a conclusion. Kind of like wearing horse blinders and a little dose of tunnel vision but I see your point.? I guess it's just a coincidence that he was a total failure in Cleveland and NE w/o him then became an all time great HC with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 34 minutes ago, nyjunc said: I guess it's just a coincidence that he was a total failure in Cleveland and NE w/o him then became an all time great HC with him. Like I said there might have been 50 different reasons for that and you choose one out of 50 to prove your point. Ok, it's a legit opinion because out of those 50 or so Brady was at the top of the list. But maybe Kraft and a ton of other circumstances played into that. Again Brady gets drafted by the Lions: good career and 0 rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said: Like I said there might have been 50 different reasons for that and you choose one out of 50 to prove your point. Ok, it's a legit opinion because out of those 50 or so Brady was at the top of the list. But maybe Kraft and a ton to of other circumstances played in that. Again Brady gets drafted by the Lions: good career and 0 rings. the Pats were the Lions, they were actually worse than the Lions at the time. how do we now detroit doesn't turn into a dynasty? the bottom line is BB has enough of a track record w/o Brady and it's not good. Brady is the best QB I have ever seen, BB is a brilliant football mind and has developed into one of the best HCs of all time but w/.o Brady stepping in he never has that chance to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, nyjunc said: the Pats were the Lions, they were actually worse than the Lions at the time. how do we now detroit doesn't turn into a dynasty? the bottom line is BB has enough of a track record w/o Brady and it's not good. Brady is the best QB I have ever seen, BB is a brilliant football mind and has developed into one of the best HCs of all time but w/.o Brady stepping in he never has that chance to develop. Because they didn't have Belichick they had Matt Millen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 5 hours ago, nyjunc said: maybe, better chance than if he didn't go and BB was the HC. I am not a fan of his but he did what he felt he had to do and it's worked out pretty well for him. The way he did it exemplifies the low class, no morals, cheating POS sc*mbag he is though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 The way he did it exemplifies the low class, no morals, cheating POS sc*mbag he is though And 4 Super Bowl titles. Who cares about all that other crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Just now, PatsFanTX said: And 4* Super Bowl titles. Who cares about all that other crap? Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Fixed Jealous, envious opposing fans are funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 On the other hand Belichick has been caught at least twice in major cheating scandals that got negative national headlines for the NFL. If he's so smart he doesn't get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 On the other hand Belichick has been caught at least twice in major cheating scandals that got negative national headlines for the NFL. If he's so smart he doesn't get caught. Both situations were a result of BB's total arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: Both situations were a result of BB's total arrogance. They love to play head games with the league and with other teams. And try to get one up over on everyone. And it works! Everyone is totally paranoid of him and his org. Teams visiting Foxboro look for hidden mics that might not even exist. They look for people with cameras. I guess he wants to get every potential advantage possible. The thing is if you're really smart you don't get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 They love to play head games with the league and with other teams. And try to get one up over on everyone. And it works! Everyone is totally paranoid of him and his org. Teams visiting Foxboro look for hidden mics that might not even exist. They look for people with cameras. I guess he wants to get every potential advantage possible. The thing is if you're really smart you don't get caught. Great post. If BB ever realized how far he could push the envelope, none of this never would have happened. Seriously, ignoring a league-wide memo about taping from the sidelines?????? BB thought he was bigger than the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: Great post. If BB ever realized how far he could push the envelope, none of this never would have happened. Seriously, ignoring a league-wide memo about taping from the sidelines?????? BB thought he was bigger than the league. Look, the reason Kraft bailed out on Brady as you know was for his own self interest. And that's why the league punished them. Because these actions brought the league millions of dollars of bad pub. And in the long run this can potentially hurt the NFL brand which means diminished revenue. And that's all these owners care about. I mean sports is an entertainment field and ratings and such are cyclical and depend on trends. People eventually get sick and tired of this crap. Not just the cheating but all of the problems on and off the field. Like concussions, player strikes, injuries, law suits, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Look, the reason Kraft bailed out on Brady as you know was for his own self interest. And that's why the league punished them. Because these actions brought the league millions of dollars of bad pub. And in the long run this can potentially hurt the NFL brand which means diminished revenue. And that's all these owners care about. I mean sports is an entertainment field and ratings and such are cyclical and depend on trends. People eventually get sick and tired of this crap. Not just the cheating but all of the problems on and off the field. Like concussions, player strikes, injuries, law suits, etc. Look, the NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry. Spygate, deflategate, concussions, drugs, player strikes and anything else will not bring the league down. Just watch the amount of the next television contract. It will be mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: Look, the NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry. Spygate, deflategate, concussions, drugs, player strikes and anything else will not bring the league down. Just watch the amount of the next television contract. It will be mind boggling. Look at this time you're right. The NFL is a cash cow. And as rich as they are they're looking for more and more and more revenue. But and this is strictly my opinion. It will go down eventually. And in the long run for reasons I mentioned it won't be a good investment. Just with concussions alone they already had to settle with former players for about a billion dollars. And there's more where that came from. I don't even think they're really selling out games either which is an indicator of decline. So I would bet in the future the value of franchises will decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Look at this time you're right. The NFL is a cash cow. And as rich as they are they're looking for more and more and more revenue. But and this is strictly my opinion. It will go down eventually. And in the long run for reasons I mentioned it won't be a good investment. Just with concussions alone they already had to settle with former players for about a billion dollars. And there's more where that came from. I don't even think they're really selling out games either which is an indicator of decline. So I would bet in the future the value of franchises will decrease. Two points: 1) I am always right. 2) The future value of franchises will never go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: Two points: 1) I am always right. 2) The future value of franchises will never go down. Every cycle has it's downswing. And trends change as do new generations and what interests them. For us, we're hooked. But I was once a big boxing fan and watched pay-per-view and would go see live boxing. And listened to big fights on the radio. But after seeing old boxers after they retired like Frazier and Ali and what they looked and sounded like I eventually stopped watching it. I'm no longer a boxing fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said: Jealous, envious opposing fans are funny. So is Carrot Top looking at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Every cycle has it's downswing. And trends change as do new generations and what interests them. For us, we're hooked. But I was once a big boxing fan and watched pay-per-view and would go see live boxing. And listened to big fights on the radio. But after seeing old boxers after they retired like Frazier and Ali and what they looked and sounded like I eventually stopped watching it. I'm no longer a boxing fan. Absolutely agree with you. Boxing was at the pinnacle in the '70's and early '80's. I can't remember the last time I watched a boxing match. What happened to boxing will never happen to the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 24 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: 1) I am always right. Ummmmm, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Look, I can see little Billy Belichick as a mischievous kid in school. Always trying to pull a fast one on somebody, you know like hand buzzers and whoopie cushions and the minute the teacher turns their back making funny faces, etc. I don't think he's changed a heck of a lot. Except now the authoritarian figure is Roger and his main targets are other orgs. You would think his favorite foils are people he considers stuffed shirts like Woody Johnson and easy marks like Rex Ryan. Maybe he just never grew up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 3 hours ago, PatsFanTX said: Do you have a clue? BB took over a 3-13 team and turned the entire roster over by 78% and got them in the playoffs. And then a dumbass owner announces mid-season that he is moving the team. Vince Lombardi would have failed under those circumstances. What about the rest of his years? You can't dispute a single thing I said so you made an excuse for one of his losing seasons and brushed over the hatred from fans, media, coaches and owner. But you ask if I have a clue? Stick to the topic and troll someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said: Two points: 1) I am always right. 2) The future value of franchises will never go down. You may be right, but it's certainly not set in stone. Football replaced baseball as the top sport in the US in a matter of decades. It's bound to change again at some point. With all of the player health concerns in football coming to the forefront in recent years, there could be a meaningful decline in talent in the coming decades as kids and parents choose safer sports from a young age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Far better question, how much of Bellicheck and Brady's success is because of cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 You may be right, but it's certainly not set in stone. Football replaced baseball as the top sport in the US in a matter of decades. It's bound to change again at some point. With all of the player health concerns in football coming to the forefront in recent years, there could be a meaningful decline in talent in the coming decades as kids and parents choose safer sports from a young age. It's all about money. Where else can companies plop down millions of dollars in advertising and reach their target audience (males age 25-40) from 1:00pm to 11:00 pm on a Sunday? Can baseball, soccer, basketball, hockey or golf do that? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Belichek made Brady, not the other way around. Belichek made Parcells too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 3 hours ago, sourceworx said: Ummmmm, yeah. Lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 35 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said: Belichek made Brady, not the other way around. Belichek made Parcells too. Gay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Neither one was great before they were put together I think we need to give some credit to all those times the team has gotten caught cheating Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 9 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said: Belichek made Brady, not the other way around. Belichek made Parcells too. I don't think that Beli made Parcells. But he sure helped him out a lot and Bill was smart enough to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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