How much of Belichick's success is because of Brady ? ? ?

[NYs Stepchild]

6 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Ahh shula had Marino..who else?

 

Walsh had montana? 

 

 

McCarthy has A-Rod...u can't mean B.favre too cuz M.Homlgren had him..

Shula had Johnny Unitas 

[PatsFanTX]

They were convicted of all of those things. The only theory here is that they probably didn't get caught for everything they did which seems reasonable. Do you really think they were caught every time they did something unethical? 

Brady lies far to well, and is too smug, and sassy to be his first time. Bill just says nothing intelligible so as to never having to be caught in a lie. 

Krafty made it clear when he paid off the NFL then expected Brady's culpability to go away. The shock and defiance when it didn't just shows that it must have always worked in the past. 

Unethical?

4 Super Bowl titles in 15 years is the only thing that matters.

If you want ethical, go watch some Pop Warner games on Sunday.

[Klecko73isGod]

On 6/27/2016 at 8:08 PM, PatsFanTX said:

You mean the guy BB drafted and developed?

If by "developed" you mean used elaborate, electronic cheating methods to make sure his sixth-rounder QB knew exactly what type of defense he was facing roughly 60% of the time turning the majority of games he played his first six years in the league into glorified scrimmages, then yes. 

[PatsFanTX]

If by "developed" you mean used elaborate, electronic cheating methods to make sure his sixth-rounder QB knew exactly what type of defense he was facing roughly 60% of the time turning the majority of games he played his first six years in the league into glorified scrimmages, then yes. 

Ah, Kleck's riding in on his high white horse again.

What has that horse delivered for the Jets the last 47 years?

[Klecko73isGod]

13 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

I know you are one of the 1% of posters on the board who enjoyed a Jets Championship. Congrats!

The Pats have had the greatest 15-year run in the history of the NFL.

You are a very good poster, please don't sink to the level of those posters that don't have a clue.

Greatest 15-year run in NFL history? The 49ers won FIVE  Super Bowls while NEVER losing a Super Bowl between 1981 and 1994. EAD. 

[Klecko73isGod]

4 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Ah, Kleck's riding in on his high white horse again.

What has that horse delivered for the Jets the last 47 years?

Again, you don't even attempt to refute my point. 

I win again. 

This is getting boring. 

[NYs Stepchild]

44 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Unethical?

4 Super Bowl titles in 15 years is the only thing that matters.

If you want ethical, go watch some Pop Warner games on Sunday.

I give you credit for admitting it. I guess you just get used to it

We just have to accept that we live in a world where cheating and lying is okay as long as you say the right things.

[PatsFanTX]

I give you credit for admitting it. I guess you just get used to it

We just have to accept that we live in a world where cheating and lying is okay as long as you say the right things.

The only thing that matters in the NFL is winning.

[ghost_in_pads02]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Shula had Johnny Unitas 

Still a very..very short list(shula, 1) of Superbowl winning coaches who others think are great who have not developed more then one great QB, so BB needs not be judged any different...even though on this board we know he will...

[nyjunc]

14 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Well that could be said about every coach who has ever coached in the NFL *insert great coach name here*

 

ok but I was being told BB made Brady and I am sure he helped develop him but the reality is BB has been a complete failure as a Head Coach w/o Tom Brady under C.

11 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

DId they make the AFC Championship the year before Belichick took over?  No.  They were 3-13.   They were outscored 462-228.  The lost by an average of two touchdowns a game.  The team had grown old and Belichick cleaned house.

The Jets were bad, but they were more mediocre than a team that bottomed out.

Belichick was not on the hot seat.  That is all media speculation.  Kraft helped push Par$ells out of town.  He knew the team was a in a cap mess and needed to cut players.  You cannot purge your team expect it to be more than 5-11.  He was not on a hot seat.

 

so what?  the Jets were 4-12 the year before Coslet took over, basically the same.  

what players needed to be cut after parcells? what good players did you lose?  I believe BP is a mediocre GM type but that roster was loaded w/ BP guys that won in 2001.

 

BB was definitely on the hot seat.  after a 5-11 2000 they started 0-2 including losing to a bad Bengal team in the opener.  if they continued down that path(if Brady doesn't start) the seat would have gotten hotter and hotter.  

 

purge? they brough in a lot of lower cost FAs but they also had a ton of talent on that roster.  I am not a bledsoe guy but he wasa  decent QB, they had Faulk, Brown, Glenn, Woody, Andruzzi, Johnson, Bruschi, law, Vinatieri, Milloy, Jones, etc... they had talent to compete and they fauiled to compete then started off not competing in 2001 until they started winning coincidentally the moment Brady became the starter.

[Sperm Edwards]

A few excerpts from The Patriots Fans Creed: 

• The cheating Belichick and Brady got caught doing, that truly helped them over the years, is surely the only cheating they've ever done.
• Their cheating didn't help them, and all their success would have been the same without doing so, despite the elaborate planning and scheming and sneaking about they undertook to commence and then continue their repeated rule-breaking.
• Even if acknowledging they did cheat, what the Patriots were caught doing weren't really cheating-cheating things in the first place, despite written rules already being in place to disallow these practices at the times they were caught doing them. 

No matter how laughably silly these beliefs and claims are, it's the fans of other teams who are the delusional ones. Lol. 

[drdetroit]

17 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Another clueless fan posting something he has no clue about.

Mo Lewis?

Laughed my ass off on that one.

At least you are consistent.

Tx, name me the other good qb's Belichick developed.  

 

Y'know, the guys you have been gloating about on jet fan messageboards the past several yrs

[JustInFudge]

17 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Another clueless fan posting something he has no clue about.

Mo Lewis?

Laughed my ass off on that one.

At least you are consistent.

 

17 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Wow, did you post that sitting on the grassy knoll?

 

15 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Gotta love a Jets fan, who has never seen his team even play in a Super Bowl in his life, knows exactly how the Pats dynasty has won 4 Super Bowl titles in 15 years.

 

14 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

I know you are one of the 1% of posters on the board who enjoyed a Jets Championship. Congrats!

The Pats have had the greatest 15-year run in the history of the NFL.

You are a very good poster, please don't sink to the level of those posters that don't have a clue.

 

1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said:

Unethical?

4 Super Bowl titles in 15 years is the only thing that matters.

If you want ethical, go watch some Pop Warner games on Sunday.

 

39 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Ah, Kleck's riding in on his high white horse again.

What has that horse delivered for the Jets the last 47 years?

 

11 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

The only thing that matters in the NFL is winning.

[drdetroit]

13 hours ago, bassmaster2 said:

The QB always makes the coach

Yes and no

Parcels won with several different qb's some of them weren't even good

 

[ghost_in_pads02]

9 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

ok but I was being told BB made Brady and I am sure he helped develop him but the reality is BB has been a complete failure as a Head Coach w/o Tom Brady under C.

 

1. you have a bias toward BB so respectively i gotta look at your judgement as clouded. That's only being fair. 

2. you are a lot smarter then to be wrapped around "you're being told" when you of all jet fans have a very great understanding of what you are watching.

3. like i said before, when majority in a NFL circle describe BB as more then a coach who "got lucky" cause he had Brady...then really a fans point is more moot to me, just them talking, no disrespect toward you.

 

 

and another thing (this isn't directed toward you), but how you "get lucky" when draft a 6 round pick? I could understand if he was drafted number 1...dude was a 6 around pick....BB kept him and seen something n him and the rest is history..but some how he got lucky..lol 

[Sperm Edwards]

Jets fans have a bias with regard to Belichick. Pats fans have no such bias. 

Priceless. 

[ghost_in_pads02]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Jets fans have a bias with regard to Belichick. Pats fans have no such bias. 

Priceless. 

if this is directed toward me...where do you see me saying some pats fans have no bias? I think it's clear most ppl have a bias toward something...but i'm addressing jet fans...so i gotta narrow it down to who I am addressing. 

[JustInFudge]

lmfao - how do you get lucky in the 6th round?  Are you ******* kidding me? 

Cheatriots fans are hands down, bar none, the most delusional ******* morons on the planet.  Every single one of them. Complete ******* morons.  Everyone of them is in absolute denial about the fraud they root for.

If you asked them, BB told Mo Lewis to almost kill Beldsoe because he knew his 6th round pick who was benched for Brian Griese in college would be the greatest Cheater of all time.

He just knew guys.  He's that good.

 

[ghost_in_pads02]

Clearly some fool does not understand the context of that statement....not surprised though. 

[PFSIKH]

15 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

There was talk up until Lewis turned your teams future around by almost killing Bledsoe that Kraft was disappointed and close to firing him.  

Laugh all you want.  Facts can be funny.  

Who?  Please provide links.

There seems to be a sh*t ton of people that know what Kraft was thinking then.

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said:

Unethical?

4 Super Bowl titles in 15 years is the only thing that matters.

If you want ethical, go watch some Pop Warner games on Sunday.

So you do agree with every word in my original post. You see both of them for the cheaters they are, and see why one needed the other in order for the sum of the parts to succeed.

At least you're not disillusioned. Dense? Past your prime? Boring? Sure, all of those; but at least you know what's what. 

[JustInFudge]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A few excerpts from The Patriots Fans Creed: 

• The cheating Belichick and Brady got caught doing, that truly helped them over the years, is surely the only cheating they've ever done.
• Their cheating didn't help them, and all their success would have been the same without doing so, despite the elaborate planning and scheming and sneaking about they undertook to commence and then continue their repeated rule-breaking.
• Even if acknowledging they did cheat, what the Patriots were caught doing weren't really cheating-cheating things in the first place, despite written rules already being in place to disallow these practices at the times they were caught doing them. 

No matter how laughably silly these beliefs and claims are, it's the fans of other teams who are the delusional ones. Lol. 

I used to feel bad for the fanbase.  They cant control the fact they root for the biggest frauds in the history of sports.  But then you read this sh*t and that all goes out the window.

What a bunch of ******* morons.  Literally, morons. 

[PFSIKH]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

lmfao - how do you get lucky in the 6th round?  Are you ******* kidding me? 

Cheatriots fans are hands down, bar none, the most delusional ******* morons on the planet.  Every single one of them. Complete ******* morons.  Everyone of them is in absolute denial about the fraud they root for.

If you asked them, BB told Mo Lewis to almost kill Beldsoe because he knew his 6th round pick who was benched for Brian Griese in college would be the greatest Cheater of all time.

He just knew guys.  He's that good.

 

Wrong on a lot of different levels.

He was not benched in favor of Greise.  Griese had two years on him.  Llyod Carr tried to keep Drew Henson happy by giving him play time during Brady's senior year.

Did they know Brady would be the G.O.A.T.?  No.  However, they saw something to keep him on the roster his rookie season rather than risk exposing him when putting him on the practice squad.

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

Wrong on a lot of different levels.

He was not benched in favor of Greise.  Griese had two years on him.  Llyod Carr tried to keep Drew Henson happy by giving him play time during Brady's senior year.

Did they know Brady would be the G.O.A.T.?  No.  However, they saw something to keep him on the roster his rookie season rather than risk exposing him when putting him on the practice squad.

 

Oh my bad, Drew Henson.  Even worse.  

He's a fraud and so are the Cheatriots. Enjoy it. 

[chirorob]

32 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Yes and no

Parcels won with several different qb's some of them weren't even good

That's why I think Joe Gibbs is criminally under rated in the all time discussions.

Won 3 Super Bowls, made 4.   With Joe Theismann, a combo of Jay Schraeder and Doug Williams, and a one year wonder of Mark Rypien.

[ghost_in_pads02]

1 minute ago, chirorob said:

That's why I think Joe Gibbs is criminally under rated in the all time discussions.

Won 3 Super Bowls, made 4.   With Joe Theismann, a combo of Jay Schraeder and Doug Williams, and a one year wonder of Mark Rypien.

gotta agree....in other words.. Joe Gibbs is/was the sh*t...my cousin to this day won't stop talking about Joe Gibbs.

[nyjunc]

33 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

1. you have a bias toward BB so respectively i gotta look at your judgement as clouded. That's only being fair. 

2. you are a lot smarter then to be wrapped around "you're being told" when you of all jet fans have a very great understanding of what you are watching.

3. like i said before, when majority in a NFL circle describe BB as more then a coach who "got lucky" cause he had Brady...then really a fans point is more moot to me, just them talking, no disrespect toward you.

 

 

and another thing (this isn't directed toward you), but how you "get lucky" when draft a 6 round pick? I could understand if he was drafted number 1...dude was a 6 around pick....BB kept him and seen something n him and the rest is history..but some how he got lucky..lol 

you are asking how you get lucky when a 6th rd pick turns into the greatest QB of all time?

 

1. sure I do but not as bad as your bias for him.  I appreciate him as a great coach, one of the most brilliant football minds of all time but that doesn't change the FACT that w/o Brady he has done a poor job as a HEAD COACH.

2. I understand what is going on(as much as possible w/o actually being there), I was just responding.

3. I don't care how others view him, the proof is in the results.  Look at his record both with and without him.

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Oh my bad, Drew Henson.  Even worse.  

He's a fraud and so are the Cheatriots. Enjoy it. 

you have to remember Henson was considered a lock future NFL star, had he chose to play football who knows? but he took the Yankees money.  That was an odd situation at Michigan.

4 minutes ago, chirorob said:

That's why I think Joe Gibbs is criminally under rated in the all time discussions.

Won 3 Super Bowls, made 4.   With Joe Theismann, a combo of Jay Schraeder and Doug Williams, and a one year wonder of Mark Rypien.

Gibbs is one of the all time greats, no doubt about it.  

[ghost_in_pads02]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

 

 

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you are asking how you get lucky when a 6th rd pick turns into the greatest QB of all time?

 

1. sure I do but not as bad as your bias for him.  I appreciate him as a great coach, one of the most brilliant football minds of all time but that doesn't change the FACT that w/o Brady he has done a poor job as a HEAD COACH.

2. I understand what is going on(as much as possible w/o actually being there), I was just responding.

3. I don't care how others view him, the proof is in the results.  Look at his record both with and without him.

my "lucky" statement means....all BB is..his success is not SOLELY based on what Brady has become. my "lucky" statement means....BB had something to do with Brady success..he was not a number 1 picked projected to be great. he was a 6 rounder who worked, and WITH BB HELP *insert jet fan cheating joke here* became great. BB doesn't need to develop any other QB for you(not saying you) to give him his props...he seen something the other 31 NFL teams didn't see in Brady rest is history.

1. I have no bias for him..i see him like the majority of the NFL sees him and I dont keep bring up his time in cleveland like that needs to be a major factor...cause since he left cleveland we all know how great that franchise is...

2. i was actually given you credit

3. again...that could be said for ANY GREAT COACH OR GOOD COACH without a great QB. that's also proof and facts. 

[Sperm Edwards]

43 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

if this is directed toward me...where do you see me saying some pats fans have no bias? I think it's clear most ppl have a bias toward something...but i'm addressing jet fans...so i gotta narrow it down to who I am addressing. 

It's to whom, you caveman. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

 

my "lucky" statement means....all BB is..his success is not SOLELY based on what Brady has become. my "lucky" statement means....BB had something to do with Brady success..he was not a number 1 picked projected to be great. he was a 6 rounder who worked, and WITH BB HELP *insert jet fan cheating joke here* became great. BB doesn't need to develop any other QB for you(not saying you) to give him his props...he seen something the other 31 NFL teams didn't see in Brady rest is history.

1. I have no bias for him..i see him like the majority of the NFL sees him and I dont keep bring up his time in cleveland like that needs to be a major factor...cause since he left cleveland we all know how great that franchise is...

2. i was actually given you credit

3. again...that could be said for ANY GREAT COACH OR GOOD COACH without a great QB. that's also proof and facts. 

sure he had something to do with it but he wasn't turning an untalented player into what Brady became.  he struck gold w/ a throwaway pick in the 6th round where they hoped he could become a quality backup.

 

I don't complain about "cheating", I know every team is trying to gain an edge.

 

he has developed into a great HC, he was NOT a great HC when Brady took over.  Brady allowed him to develop into a great HC.

 

Parcells won 2 SBs w/o HOF QBs

Gibbs 3

Coughlin 2

Billick 1

Gruden 1

Flores 2

Ditka 1

BB has one playoff app and one playoff win w/ non HOF(not greatest of all time) QBs.

[ghost_in_pads02]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's to whom, you caveman. 

me ghost, thankx you Sperm.

[PatsFanTX]

Greatest 15-year run in NFL history? The 49ers won FIVE  Super Bowls while NEVER losing a Super Bowl between 1981 and 1994. EAD. 

The 49ers had a losing record the season after winning the Bowl in 1981.

The Pats worst season in their 15 year run was only winning 11 games.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

The 49ers had a losing record the season after winning the Bowl in 1981.

The Pats worst season in their 15 year run was only winning 11 games.

I agree with you that the pats run has been the greatest, I really don't think it is close but remember they had the strike shortened season in 1982.  they only played 9 games.

[ghost_in_pads02]

48 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

sure he had something to do with it but he wasn't turning an untalented player into what Brady became.  he struck gold w/ a throwaway pick in the 6th round where they hoped he could become a quality backup.

 

I don't complain about "cheating", I know every team is trying to gain an edge.

 

he has developed into a great HC, he was NOT a great HC when Brady took over.  Brady allowed him to develop into a great HC.

 

Parcells won 2 SBs w/o HOF QBs

Gibbs 3

Coughlin 2

Billick 1

Gruden 1

Flores 2

Ditka 1

BB has one playoff app and one playoff win w/ non HOF(not greatest of all time) QBs.

but he wasn't turning an untalented player into what Brady became - Sorry this statement alone is why i say your judgement is clouded. And I know you dont complain about cheating, it wasn't directed at you.

at what exact point when he was a great HC is up for opinion, but doesn't it matter? He is one right?

 

as you list all the coaches...remember who was with Parcell when he was winning..and again, at the end of the day if you recognize him as a great coach...what are you having a problem with???