Some real facts about the coaches and the situation

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Who's making excuses for Fitzpatrick?  You need to push back from the computer for a bit...

Great advice thanks I have some yard work to do and the car needs washing. 

[bostonmajet]

29 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I am always a fan of those who make this point.

It comes up every single time a coach starts crossing that line with Jets fans of if the Jets made the right hire. That we should hang on to someone who doesn't produce results based on nothing but the thought that a lack of continuity is what has held this franchise back.

And then you look at the list of coaches the Jets have fired over the past 15 years; Herm, Mangini, and Rex.

None of them have gone on to have any sort of success anywhere else. And were also run (or about to be run) out of town for the second time. The Jets made the right call each time firing them when they did, and in two instances held on to them for a season or two for too long.

If the Jets would make good hires, they wouldn't have to fire anyone.

You guys make it sound easy. Yeah, lets hire the next Belicheck or Cower. If it was easy (like drafting and developing a QB) every team would do it. How often does it happen? The truth is, you need to give a coach a minimum 3 years before you know, a GM maybe 4. If you bail ever 2 years you will NEVER win. So, at some point, after a FO change, you have to be patient, even if the team lays an egg.

Look at this another way. BB failed miserably at Cleveland, went back to work for Parcells and still struggled with NE until Brady. Cower took 3-4 to make Pittsburg good; had some sh*tty years, and it took 12 years and Rapesburger to win the big game.

Yeah, Carroll did it in short time, but that was his 3rd entry as a HC and Seattle's GM just built an unbelievably good team overnight.

I understand the frustration (especially after yesterday); I understand the need to vent (again especially after yesterday); I understand the need to make a change, but sometimes, all you can do is be patient and build towards a plan.

[Pcola]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

I'm assuming you mean the method wherein you draft a QB each draft until you find one?

2016 - Hackenberg

2015 - Petty

2014 - Boyd

2013 - Smith

2012 - None

2011 - McElroy

2010 - None (only 4 picks)

2009 - Sanchez

2008 - Ainge

2007 - None (only 4 picks)

2006 - Clemens

We've tried, passing on a QB only 3 times in the past decade+, and only once when we had close to a full compliment of picks.  It has not worked.

The team's philosophy (has to be ownership because it goes back 3 GMs, so probably something Parcells told Woody) draft defense in the first and third round, offense in the second.  We done it the last 7 drafts with the lone exception of taking Winters in the third back in 2013.  And the rationale there may have been its ok we took two defensive first round picks.

Since Woody has owned the team, we have used our first pick on an offensive player 3 times.  17 drafts and Sanchez, D'Brick, and Moss.  Throw in Mangold and Keller if you want but the pattern is obvious.  

We wont use another #1 pick on a QB.  So if we don't strike gold with Hackenberg, we just take another guy that 31 other teams didn't think was capable of being a franchise QB in 2018.  Rinse and Repeat.

[PatsFanTX]

Yikes.

Blow jobs and hot wings?

Not a good combination.

They are if you're on the receiving end.

[RoadFan]

Somebody must have mentioned the Jets were blown out and humiliated in Oakland last season.

And the our QB got hurt excuse doesn't fly with me.  Geno wasn't prepared to play in Oakland because the coaches didn't make sure he was. 

Minnesota, Dallas, and New England are doing just fine with backups.  Even Cleveland should have beaten Miami yesterday.

 

[PatsFanTX]

Some games count, some games dont.

QB's dont matter.

It's the fans fault.

The team is mediocre despite being completely loaded with talent. 

Sticking with something sh*tty is better than not because continuity.

Just to recap the genius of this thread. 

Other than the DL, where are the Jets "loaded with talent"?

The have the worst QB and TE situation in the NFL, mediocre OLine and below average secondary.

[phill1c]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

1 minute ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Other than the DL, where are the Jets "loaded"?

 

The have the worst QB and TE situation in the NFL, mediocre OLine and below average secondary.

Again I am perfectly convinced that the fanbase is the reason why this team wont win ANYTHING. Too reactionary and too loud and stupid.

Especially given a non football owner, Woody Johnson, who left the major decisions to Casserly and Wolf, two football guys. That's exactly what a non football owner should do. 

So if the owner is doing the right thing, it has to be the fanbase.

I believe the latent level has improved markedly.

The secondary is way better than it's playing: a mixture of sloppy play and absurd defensive calls/schemes.

The OL seems to be performing better, and has some young talent in the pipeline.

LBs: much younger and more talented.

QB: we have FOUR of them

Loaded? No, but, really, the majority of teams are right about the same talent level. It's the coaching that makes the difference for the most part, IMO.

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, phill1c said:

The OL seems to be performing better, and has some young talent in the pipeline.

The OL seems to be performing better because of the QB moving in the pocket and the quick read plays The OL has not been good. And it has zero young talent in the pipeline. It's one of the most ignored positions on this team.

[phill1c]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

The OL seems to be performing better because of the QB moving in the pocket and the quick read plays The OL has not been good. And it has zero young talent in the pipeline. It's one of the most ignored positions on this team.

The same QB was starting last year and the OL seems to be playing better. I guess, to me Qwale, Shell, Ijilani, are all young OL that have been groomed and are being groomed. It hasn't been ignored. We traded for Carpenter last year, drafted Shell this year, traded for Clady. Not the most sexy of acquisitions, but certainly not ignorance.

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Other than the DL, where are the Jets "loaded"?

 

The have the worst QB and TE situation in the NFL, mediocre OLine and below average secondary.

WR's are loaded.  Forte is a stud.  Powell is a great compliment back.  The OL is very good and have been playing great actually.  Clady, Mangold and Carpenter are ProBowlers. Q is basically the TE and he's a beast.  This is the exact same unit that finished top 10 last year just with the addition of Clady and Forte and young studly WR's. 

The DL is stacked.  The LBers has a stalwart Harris and Lee has looked pretty good for the most part.  Jenkins and Maudlin have immense talent.  Revis, Skrine, Williams, Gilchrest and Pryor are very solid and should be one of the best secondaries in the league.  This is basically the exact same unit that finished top 10 last year but with more speed.

Outside of QB, this is one of the most talent rosters in the NFL and there really isnt an argument. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, phill1c said:

The same QB was starting last year and the OL seems to be playing better. I guess, to me Qwale, Shell, Ijilani, are all young OL that have been groomed and are being groomed. It hasn't been ignored. We traded for Carpenter last year, drafted Shell this year, traded for Clady. Not the most sexy of acquisitions, but certainly not ignorance.

Qvale and Ijalana are still splitting reps because neither one is good enough to be a full time tackle at this juncture. Shell looked awful in the preseason and completely over-matched, he may improve but it isn't an influx of young talent. Clady is 30 and has an injury history. Carpenter was a really good free agency signing. Mangold is going to be 33 and has been on the decline for a little now. What I meant by ignore is that it hasn't been addressed in the draft adequately enough.

Based on age, contracts and talent James Carpenter is the only offensive lineman guaranteed to be a Jet next season. I'm hopeful that Ijalana or Qvale step up and secure that RT position, but the fact that they still rotate and Breno hasn't been just cut yet doesn't bode well for how the staff sees them.

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Qvale and Ijalana are still splitting reps because neither one is good enough to be a full time tackle at this juncture. Shell looked awful in the preseason and completely over-matched, he may improve but it isn't an influx of young talent. Clady is 30 and has an injury history. Carpenter was a really good free agency signing. Mangold is going to be 33 and has been on the decline for a little now. What I meant by ignore is that it hasn't been addressed in the draft adequately enough.

Based on age, contracts and talent James Carpenter is the only offensive lineman guaranteed to be a Jet next season. I'm hopeful that Ijalana or Qvale step up and secure that RT position, but the fact that they still rotate and Breno hasn't been just cut yet doesn't bode well for how the staff sees them.

I think the notion is that both have unique strengths. In any event, neither has given up a sack, which is better than can be said before they were manning the position. That Shell is not an all-pro seems reasonable for 4th rounder in his first year. They drafted him to groom, so it actually IS talent.

The facts really don't support your argument. The OL is playing better than it has and there has been an influx of talent on it. Sometimes, you can make an argument and then it's proven incorrect. No need to continue to attempt to support it with erroneous filler. The rest of what you said was fairly spot-on.

[CrazyCarl40]

5 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I think the notion is that both have unique strengths. In any event, neither has given up a sack, which is better than can be said before they were manning the position. That Shell is not an all-pro seems reasonable for 4th rounder in his first year. They drafted him to groom, so it actually IS talent.

The facts really don't support your argument. The OL is playing better than it has and there has been an influx of talent on it. Sometimes, you can make an argument and then it's proven incorrect. No need to continue to attempt to support it with erroneous filler. The rest of what you said was fairly spot-on.

What facts? The Jets O-Line not giving up sacks has more to do with Fitz and the game plan than it does the actual offensive line. Is Clady playing better than Brick? Maybe, but not by much. Is Winters 2016 better than Winters 2015? Again, probably but not by much. Is Qvale/Ijalana better than Breno. Yes, because Breno is awful, but neither are excelling. They are just barely getting by. If there was a less pocket aware QB who was less mobile back there or the play calling was different, there would be a lot more sacks given up. Sacks are the end all, be all of determining if the offensive line is good. There has been no influx of talent aside of Carpenter and they haven't invested any top round picks in the offensive line in quite some time.

[bostonmajet]

18 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I think the notion is that both have unique strengths. In any event, neither has given up a sack, which is better than can be said before they were manning the position. That Shell is not an all-pro seems reasonable for 4th rounder in his first year. They drafted him to groom, so it actually IS talent.

They are splitting the reps and combined have played better than Breno (IMO) for about a third the money. If Qvale can take the job, his is a cheap OL with upside.

That being said, I don't think the OL is a point of strength for the team. And we have little depth there. Next year they are going to have to add more permanent replacements; Mangold is getting to the end of his career and he and Clady are making 19 million combined next year.

[Embrace the Suck]

5 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

#5 Macc was not smart signing Fitzpatrick

He was for only committing money for this year. I could see past GMs overreacting and signing him to big money and multiple years. Signing Fitz was inevitable. No way after last year do they go into this year without Fitz unless they were sitting on a sure thing as a replacement, which, as SAR I aptly pointed out , they aren't. Had they (Mac & Bowles) not brought Fitz back and the replacement was horrible they'd both be out of a job after this year. It was just a matter of how much and how long.