Clady to IR, Jarvis Jenkins Waived

[Powpow]

9 hours ago, section314 said:

Yeah...fans that actually have a clue. Give this crap a rest. Better yet, go on Facebook and share your thoughts with all the other people suffering from "traumatic stress."

Better to suffer from traumatic stress than being an insufferable know-it-all (who knows nothing at all). ☠️

[Sperm Edwards]

On 11/10/2016 at 5:51 PM, neckdemon said:

long term sustained success in this league is tied to finding a franchise caliber qb. thats it. there is no other way. 

Well he's been lazy on that front as well, and his actions suggest he disagrees with you. 

Regardless, it takes more than that.

• The Saints have 1 winning season in their last 5, including this year, where they're a mere 4-4 with Brees posting a 21:5 ratio, a 70% completion rate, and leading he league in passing ypg, leading to his 107 passer rating. And the Saints still suck, losing 3 games where he's thrown 3 TDs.
• Even with the rings years ago, the Giants haven't enjoyed sustained success, as they're over .500 barely half his career and if they finish with  whopping 9 wins it'll be the first time since 2012.
• The last time the Bolts won 10 games was way back in 2009 (Rex's first season here). Including this year, they're .500 or under 4 of the last 6, with "success" being 9-7. 

On the the other side,

• Alex Smith is no franchise caliber QB. He's the ultimate do-no-harm game manager, yet KC is generally good every year with him (i.e. sustained success).
• The Texans are on their way to their 5th winning season in he last 6 without a franchise caliber QB. 
• Pre-Roethlisberger the Steelers were still good for years without one, from trotting out O'Donnell to Stewart behind center. 
• For years, the Bears had better success juggling Orton, Grossman, and Griese (even going to a SB once) than they've been since trading for Cutler.

So it certainly helps - a lot - and should be far more of a focus than Maccagnan has given, but there is more to GMing a team even if one fills that position. He's done a good job of neither. 

[neckdemon]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well he's been lazy on that front as well, and his actions suggest he disagrees with you. 

Regardless, it takes more than that.

• The Saints have 1 winning season in their last 5, including this year, where they're a mere 4-4 with Brees posting a 21:5 ratio, a 70% completion rate, and leading he league in passing ypg, leading to his 107 passer rating. And the Saints still suck, losing 3 games where he's thrown 3 TDs.
• Even with the rings years ago, the Giants haven't enjoyed sustained success, as they're over .500 barely half his career and if they finish with  whopping 9 wins it'll be the first time since 2012.
• The last time the Bolts won 10 games was way back in 2009 (Rex's first season here). Including this year, they're .500 or under 4 of the last 6, with "success" being 9-7. 

On the the other side,

• Alex Smith is no franchise caliber QB. He's the ultimate do-no-harm game manager, yet KC is generally good every year with him (i.e. sustained success).
• The Texans are on their way to their 5th winning season in he last 6 without a franchise caliber QB. 
• Pre-Roethlisberger the Steelers were still good for years without one, from trotting out O'Donnell to Stewart behind center. 
• For years, the Bears had better success juggling Orton, Grossman, and Griese (even going to a SB once) than they've been since trading for Cutler.

So it certainly helps - a lot - and should be far more of a focus than Maccagnan has given, but there is more to GMing a team even if one fills that position. He's done a good job of neither. 

in almost any data set there are outliers. this doesn't change the fact that for an overwhelming majority of the time you need a franchise caliber qb. the saints have been average the past couple years. but before that they were winning with brees and have won a superbowl as recently as 2010. even with franchise level qb's pure dynasties like the pats are rare. give a team a franchise qb and you have a team that can turn their fortunes around in a year and become a contender. the jets have no such chance at that, and it's because we lack a franchise qb. btw, alex smith is not a stud, but he's underrated

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

in almost any data set there are outliers. this doesn't change the fact that for an overwhelming majority of the time you need a franchise caliber qb. the saints have been average the past couple years. but before that they were winning with brees and have won a superbowl as recently as 2010. even with franchise level qb's pure dynasties like the pats are rare. give a team a franchise qb and you have a team that can turn their fortunes around in a year and become a contender. the jets have no such chance at that, and it's because we lack a franchise qb. btw, alex smith is not a stud, but he's underrated

I agreed with you that it makes everything else so much easier. My point was that even if he'd lucked into one, he's not going to build a sustained winner anyway. He'd be one of those so-called "outliers" with a true franchise QB that misses the playoffs at least half the time.

His picks and acquisitions are all over the place, seemingly with no cohesive plan in mind. And it stems from the same in-over-his-head-ism that brings him to fail to give the QB position the attention it deserves in the first place. He overdrafts weaker prospects (e.g. Hackenberg) or good prospects at weaker positions (Lee). Despite his start from being a scout, he treats he draft like it's free agency part 2, but these acquired players don't even fit together anyway, and his eye for value is questionable at best.

BTW, I don't think Alex Smith is underrated at all. He's rated quite appropriately by most. Regardless, he isn't a "franchise caliber QB" type to which you you referred.

[nylarry]

This season is over. We are just getting ready for 2017. Lets see who we keep for next season in these last games.

[ljr]

13 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I agreed with you that it makes everything else so much easier. My point was that even if he'd lucked into one, he's not going to build a sustained winner anyway. He'd be one of those so-called "outliers" with a true franchise QB that misses the playoffs at least half the time.

His picks and acquisitions are all over the place, seemingly with no cohesive plan in mind. And it stems from the same in-over-his-head-ism that brings him to fail to give the QB position the attention it deserves in the first place. He overdrafts weaker prospects (e.g. Hackenberg) or good prospects at weaker positions (Lee). Despite his start from being a scout, he treats he draft like it's free agency part 2, but these acquired players don't even fit together anyway, and his eye for value is questionable at best.

BTW, I don't think Alex Smith is underrated at all. He's rated quite appropriately by most. Regardless, he isn't a "franchise caliber QB" type to which you you referred.

 Lee was slotted to go right around our pick in the draft ... IMO I don't fault Mac for picking the best non QB at that spot if he didn't believe in the QB Denver took who was rated by almost every "expert" as the best QB prospect left still on the board 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, ljr said:

 Lee was slotted to go right around our pick in the draft ... IMO I don't fault Mac for picking the best non QB at that spot if he didn't believe in the QB Denver took who was rated by almost every "expert" as the best QB prospect left still on the board 

I don't care where he was slotted to go, or if he turns into a really good pro. He plays a low value position for a top 20 pick; one that costs only a moderate amount in free agency. Just like Pryor 2 years earlier. 

You take a potential $12-20M/yr player with a top 20 pick, and fill those sub-$10M positions in free agency.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't care where he was slotted to go, or if he turns into a really good pro. He plays a low value position for a top 20 pick; one that costs only a moderate amount in free agency. Just like Pryor 2 years earlier. 

Jerod Mayo and Luke Keuchly think differently, when it comes to the position, not to Lee

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Jerod Mayo and Luke Keuchly think differently, when it comes to the position, not to Lee

Huh? Jerod Mayo was never close to a $12-20M/yr player. 

So based on your two examples, the pick is only worthwhile if he's Luke Keuchly II.

That's some good stuff right there. Thank you for making my point for me. 

[thebuzzardman]

On 11/9/2016 at 3:49 PM, peebag said:

All the successful GMs have jobs.  Better jobs than what the Jets can offer.

Give the new GM and Coach 20% of Woody's Johnson.....& Johnson

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Huh? Jerod Mayo was never close to a $12-20M/yr player. 

So based on your two examples, the pick is only worthwhile if he's Luke Keuchly II.

That's some good stuff right there. Thank you for making my point for me. 

You misunderstand. Both Keuchly and Mayo were drafted in the top 10. So LBers must be considered with some high value if you get some taken in the top 10. 

I believe Darron Lee was projected to go in the 1st round, so it wasn't a reach by experts' thinking.

It seems to me more and more that Jets fans believe that great players can only be found in the top 5 picks.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

You misunderstand. Both Keuchly and Mayo were drafted in the top 10. So LBers must be considered with some high value if you get some taken in the top 10. 

I believe Darron Lee was projected to go in the 1st round, so it wasn't a reach by experts' thinking.

It seems to me more and more that Jets fans believe that great players can only be found in the top 5 picks.

 

And Mayo was too highly drafted. Let someone else take these types then, while we take players that can't be replaced so easily with mid-round draft picks and mid- level FAs. 

What are we going to do next, draft a TE with our 2017 first rounder?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

And Mayo was too highly drafted. Let someone else take these types then, while we take players that can't be replaced so easily with mid-round draft picks and mid- level FAs. 

What are we going to do next, draft a TE with our 2017 first rounder?

The point is that it seems to happen to everybody. Even the Patriots. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

The point is that it seems to happen to everybody. Even the Patriots. 

Goody. Rationalize a bad idea because others are also doing it. 

We needed serious talent at QB, multiple tackle positions, and CB. We took a slightly-built ILB.

Loser move. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Goody. Rationalize a bad idea because others are also doing it. 

We needed serious talent at QB, multiple tackle positions, and CB. We took a slightly-built ILB.

Loser move. 

What we needed was speed on defense. Bowles said it last year. He drafted speed on defense.

And he did draft all of those positions in the last draft. But obviously, first round talent is all that matters.to you and Jets fans.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

What we needed was speed on defense. Bowles said it last year. He drafted speed on defense.

Stupid. Also I was told he drafted for value not need. Hm. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Stupid. Also I was told he drafted for value not need. Hm. 

Both presented itself at the same time. As I said before, Lee was projected to go in the first round.

Not to mention he did draft a QB, OT, and CB in that draft too.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Both presented itself at the same time. As I said before, Lee was projected to go in the first round.

Still stupid, and poor value  

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Still stupid, and poor value  

 

How can it be poor value if he's projected to go in the first round?

 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

How can it be poor value if he's projected to go in the first round?

 

Because it is. 

[ljr]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't care where he was slotted to go, or if he turns into a really good pro. He plays a low value position for a top 20 pick; one that costs only a moderate amount in free agency. Just like Pryor 2 years earlier. 

You take a potential $12-20M/yr player with a top 20 pick, and fill those sub-$10M positions in free agency.

Fair point

 We did have big need to replenish LB's though ... Both ILB & OLB ... Don't remember who exactly were the other best players available  left in the draft at this point ... (We've got more important things to do today ... Like watch our soon to be Franchise Quarterback make his 1st start !!!!! ... But I am curious to look back in hindsight at who was still on the board there)... agree with you in general!

[ljr]

47 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Stupid. Also I was told he drafted for value not need. Hm. 

You sound very strongly entrenched in BPA @ "high Value Position" regardless of needs.

do you make any exception to this in extreme situations?

let's say something crazy happened , like we lose both OG's & RT to injury/FA/retirement - whatever.

(again - very extreme suggestion here , that I'm sure never would happen for real ... But, if it did)

if we were also picking around slot #20

best available OT on the board projected borderline round 2/round 3

best available OG projected around slot #30

best available "low value" prospect (also at a position of need) projected to go at slot 15

 

who would your choice be?

not trying to bust your b*lls ... Actually very curious which way you'd go !   (Peace)

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, ljr said:

You sound very strongly entrenched in BPA @ "high Value Position" regardless of needs.

do you make any exception to this in extreme situations?

let's say something crazy happened , like we lose both OG's & RT to injury/FA/retirement - whatever.

(again - very extreme suggestion here , that I'm sure never would happen for real ... But, if it did)

if we were also picking around slot #20

best available OT on the board projected borderline round 2/round 3

best available OG projected around slot #30

best available "low value" prospect (also at a position of need) projected to go at slot 15

 

who would your choice be?

not trying to bust your b*lls ... Actually very curious which way you'd go !   (Peace)

Remind me and we'll take this up after the game.

Go Jets!