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Clady to IR, Jarvis Jenkins Waived

CrazyCarl40

By CrazyCarl40
in NY Jets Forum

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I was deeply concerned about Bowles, now I'm getting deeply concerned about Maccagnan.

Were any of his offseason moves good?  Lost Brick, lost Ivory, lost Snacks.  Free agent replacements hurt or not cutting it.  None of the young WRs stepping up to fill Decker's shoes.  Lee/Pryor not working.  Petty and Hackenberg [apparently] not qualified to improve the QB position.  Bowles looking like he's lost the locker room.

Someone talk me off the ledge please.

SAR I

Letting Brick, Ivory and Snacks leave were all fine moves from a talent and fiscal perspective, but the part where he went astray was not receiving anything in compensation for letting them leave. Instead, he opted for pieces who are either off the team or not playing up to the level that would quell losing the draft pick. Lee has played half a season, I think judging him is just foolish. Drafting Hack is and has always been an absolute blunder. I think the WRs are doing better than you're giving them credit for, but doing less than others feel. My biggest fear is that we're in position to draft Watson, Kizer Kubinsky etc. and we pass for Peppers or Garrett, because they are the presumed top prospects, and one of the aforementioned turns out to be Carr or Prescott. Sooooo future FO is looking like it's in capable hands.... 

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chirorob

chirorob

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I was deeply concerned about Bowles, now I'm getting deeply concerned about Maccagnan.

Were any of his offseason moves good?  Lost Brick, lost Ivory, lost Snacks.  Free agent replacements hurt or not cutting it.  None of the young WRs stepping up to fill Decker's shoes.  Lee/Pryor not working.  Petty and Hackenberg [apparently] not qualified to improve the QB position.  Bowles looking like he's lost the locker room.

Someone talk me off the ledge please.

SAR I

Ivory has been hurt a lot of this season, so that's a wash.   The young WRs are showing something.

Everything else, freaking train wreck.

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bostonmajet

bostonmajet

Posted
Posted

Not every draft, trade, and FA acquisition is going to work out.

 

Can't blame him about Clady - it was worth the risk - we had no idea whether or not the other tackles would hold up and they did struggle without him last week.

I was not fond of the Jenkins signing, but you don't want holes and we didn't know how the other players would pan out.

Unless you were willing to commit to a total rebuild this year, you have to try and plug the holes in the team. Even if you do go with a rebuild, you still have to try and be competative and protect your QB.

Many people were for the Fitz signing. A lot against. This has clearly not worked out (much like Houston's signing - except we are done at the end of the year) but this doesn't make his other drafting and FA acquisitions bad. And, it doesn't make him Idzik 2.0. He tried to hold the team together for another year, and it didn't work, much like Tanny did for 2 years. The difference here is that in addition to trying to make the team competative now (fail) he has been building for the future with many of his other moves. You can't look at this in a vacuum.

Also, I am not sure what the concern for the 12 million is about; is there a clear candidate in FA that people would have preferred to be signed with that money? What would the team look like if they didn't sign Fitz and Geno went down early?

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

Posted
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31 minutes ago, Dcat said:

incorrect.  Value was enough.  But we had equal number of  qualified FAacquisitions and FA losses so no comp pick.  Take Jenkins out of the equation and we ne a loss of one Qulified FA and thus get a comp pick for Snacks

Maybe but I think the talent level should matter. I think that system is flawed

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Maybe but I think the talent level should matter. I think that system is flawed

I don't disagree with that opinion, but hat's a discussion for another day.  The fact is, and Jason @ over-the-cap verifies it, signing that scrub Jenkins  for $3 million balanced out the number of "Qualifying" FA losses with Qualifying" FA acquisitions and cost us a definite comp pick in what would have most likely been a 4th rounder.   

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Left Tackle isn't as important now as it was 10 years ago when Brick was drafted.   Everyone quick passes now from a three step drop and now that everything is defensive pass interference and holding they do it more

That and it took a couple of decades for defensive coordinators to just shift their DE over the RT or OG lol

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joewilly12

joewilly12

Posted
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11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Since the forum has enjoyed alot of "told you so" lately.....I'm going to take a bow and remind folks I called Clady being a bust the second we signed him.  

Thanks my biggest "told ya so" was Ryan Fitzpatrick but I cant take credit for all of it as there have been many others who agreed with me. 

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maury77

maury77

Posted
Posted

Guys, I'm pretty sure that since Jarvis Jenkins was cut before week 10, we can still recoup the comp pick for Snacks. It was actually a pretty wise move for Macc to cut him now rather than wait until the offseason. Maybe management is already folding its hand on the season. 

It is what it is on Clady. The Jets tried to sign Beachum to replace Brick, but Beachum signed with Jax. By the time Brick retired, the FA market was empty and Macc wasn't going to go into the draft being forced to find a starting OL. 

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SAR I

SAR I

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Since the forum has enjoyed alot of "told you so" lately.....I'm going to take a bow and remind folks I called Clady being a bust the second we signed him.  

I had the Jets opening at 1-5, is that better than your ITYS or no?

SAR I

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C Mart

C Mart

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Guys, I'm pretty sure that since Jarvis Jenkins was cut before week 10, we can still recoup the comp pick for Snacks. It was actually a pretty wise move for Macc to cut him now rather than wait until the offseason. Maybe management is already folding its hand on the season. 

 

Interesting. Good info. 

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Guys, I'm pretty sure that since Jarvis Jenkins was cut before week 10, we can still recoup the comp pick for Snacks. It was actually a pretty wise move for Macc to cut him now rather than wait until the offseason. Maybe management is already folding its hand on the season. 

It is what it is on Clady. The Jets tried to sign Beachum to replace Brick, but Beachum signed with Jax. By the time Brick retired, the FA market was empty and Macc wasn't going to go into the draft being forced to find a starting OL. 

:shock: 

That's correct.  I forgot all about that loophole exception.  Interesting. He may have just gotten us a comp pick instead of losing one.

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varjet

varjet

Posted
Posted

Wow.  This is worse than i even thought.

Clady was worth the try given his comp and where we were without Brick.  But then again, the Jets gave up a draft pick because they thought they were otherwise a playoff win now team.  That was the ultimate miscalculation.  Paying for Fitz and Clady thinking that they were going to bet you past a murderers row of the NFL's best teams.

Jenkins was a by-product of Wilkerson.

1.The Jets did not want to pay Wilkerson a big contract.

2. In that case, the right answer is the either trade him while he has time left on his contract at a cheap salary, or let his contract run out and get a 3rd or 4th end of round compensatory pick.

3.  That is what smart teams like the Broncos and Patriots do.

4. The later you trade him, the lower the pick you get.  The beauty of a first round pick is that you can get a star player for relatively cheap.  To give up a high pick and a $85mm contract is not good value.

5. But Woody and company thought they were "owed" something for having drafted Wilkerson even though they did not take advantage of the window to extend him early, so they franchised him and tried to trade him.  Not surprisingly, no one was offering the 1 or 2 first round picks they were looking for.

6.  So they were content paying the tag for him, but given that they were trying to trade him, signed Jenkins as insurance.  They were also worried about SR being suspened.  All of these moves obviously occurred in the context of thinking you had a playoff team that needed to be buttoned down, as opposed to a rebuilding team that needed to use its resources carefully. 

7.  But when then tagged Mo that did not leave room for Fitz.  They could have went with the 3 QBs into the season, but they (likely Woody) folded to Fitz' demand somewhat.  The Jets needed the capspace, and they then signed Mo to a longer term deal with a lower cap charge in 2016.

8.  They basically tried to do the same thing with SR.  Let's be clear.  The Jets are hopeless this year and next.  After that, SR needs big money.  Woody is not going to pay him.   I would think he would have high value to the Cowboys and Broncos for 1.5 years of a rookie deal so he can help them make the playoffs.  That value is only lower in the offseason. If they were not willing to pay the 1st round pick that many here and Woody thought the Jets were owed, that was his value.  Maybe it was a second.  If it was a second, they blew it, because that is likely the most they get for him.  This off season they are selling one cheap year, one tag year, and misbehavior/potential suspension.  The value for that is not a 1st.  It starts at a second and goes down.

Its tough to give up on the season and think you should have in hindsight, but in hindsight those moves backfired and used resources that could been used for the future.  They took a very big long shot, win now gamble for 2016 that not only failed, but will likely result in a total rebuild/poor team in 2017 with the hopes of .500 in 2018.

My guess is that Macc saw this coming, but Woody pushed.

Yes-its all Woody's fault.

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Warfish

Warfish

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Thanks my biggest "told ya so" was Ryan Fitzpatrick but I cant take credit for all of it as there have been many others who agreed with me. 

Few of you can take credit for it at all, almost all of you wanted Geno Smith instead.

And Geno Smith failed utterly.  

Truth is, both sides of the Fitz/Geno debate were 100% wrong.  

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joewilly12

joewilly12

Posted
Posted
Just now, Warfish said:

Few of you can take credit for it at all, almost all of you wanted Geno Smith instead.

And Geno Smith failed utterly.  

Truth is, both sides of the Fitz/Geno debate were 100% wrong.  

Geno injured his knee so by default Ryan Fitzpatrick is the QB once again or is it twice again by default. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is failing miserably. 

Thats the truth. 

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Warfish

Warfish

Posted
Posted
Just now, joewilly12 said:

Geno injured his knee so by default Ryan Fitzpatrick is the QB once again or is it twice again by default. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is failing miserably. 

Thats the truth. 

Spin it however you like, the "other side" of the Fitz debate is still 100% wrong and just as off-base as the Fitz supporters were.

Best of luck explaining how supporting Glass Geno was "right", lol.

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peebag

peebag

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Spin it however you like, the "other side" of the Fitz debate is still 100% wrong and just as off-base as the Fitz supporters were.

Best of luck explaining how supporting Glass Geno was "right", lol.

Ok - but what was the upside to starting Fitz?  10-6 and no playoffs again?

 

At least starting and playing Geno, we put that dog to bed.  Now we're in a state of flux with Fitzy starting again.

FML.  This team is so very awful to my mental health.

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joewilly12

joewilly12

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, peebag said:

Ok - but what was the upside to starting Fitz?  10-6 and no playoffs again?

 

At least starting and playing Geno, we put that dog to bed.  Now we're in a state of flux with Fitzy starting again.

FML.  This team is so very awful to my mental health.

Exactly starting Fitzpatrick accomplishes nothing here for the past present or future. 

This organization just doesn't get it we are 3-6 audition the backup QB's and see what we have if nothing end of season they are all gone and start over. 

 

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C Mart

C Mart

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

LSU players have a lot of success in the NFL hopefully we stole something from NE. 

An update from August  

How Patriots DT Anthony 'Freak' Johnson became a 'totally different person' in effort to revive career

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2016/08/anthony_johnson_patriots_dolph.html
 

After reading this.  IF. IF he develops he could be a replacement for Richardson. 

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SAR I

SAR I

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, peebag said:

Ok - but what was the upside to starting Fitz?  10-6 and no playoffs again?

The upside to starting Fitzpatrick was avoiding a downside.

If he were able to game manage like he did last year during the 5-0 run and if the defense lived up to it's billing as Top 3 in the NFL then the Jets had a chance to open 3-3 which is what it would have taken to reach 11-5 and a sure wildcard spot.

If the odds of this happening were 50-50 with Ryan Fitzpatrick they were 10-90 with Geno Smith.  That was the rationale at the time, still was the most logical approach in July, can't say that looking back with hindsight we would have done it any differently.

SAR I

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SAR I

SAR I

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Exactly starting Fitzpatrick accomplishes nothing here for the past present or future. 

This organization just doesn't get it we are 3-6 audition the backup QB's and see what we have if nothing end of season they are all gone and start over.

The problem with this approach is twofold:

1.  We have a schedule set up for a potential 5 wins in 7 contests, 5 of 7 at home, 2 of 3 at night on national TV in the cold against warm/dome teams, all 5 games are within Ryan Fizpatrick's ceiling, none above .500.

2.  The recent locker room meltdown needs to be corrected to save our coaching staff, and putting in a newb quarterback would only case more tension.  Validating our coaching staff under trying circumstances is more important than validating our longshot quarterback.  This wasn't the case a few weeks ago, it most certainly is now.

SAR I

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