Does Eli Manning Deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?

[prime21]

Pats had a way better defense back then then they do today but that doesn't matter. Bortles scoring more points is irrelevant.  His team won the game with great defense vs a prolific offense.  As great as the defense was in slowing down Brady, Eli had to lead his team down the field both times with minutes to spare while they were losing.  It was on him at the end of both games to go out there and march down the field to get the win versus a pretty good defense and mastemind coach.

[nyjunc]

Just now, prime21 said:

Pats had a way better defense back then then they do today but that doesn't matter. Bortles scoring more points is irrelevant.  His team won the game with great defense vs a prolific offense.  As great as the defense was in slowing down Brady, Eli had to lead his team down the field both times with minutes to spare while they were losing.  It was on him at the end of both games to go out there and march down the field to get the win versus a pretty good defense and mastemind coach.

Pats D was not way better, their Ds have always been overrated and they have come up small in big games often but in 2007 the Pats D was 4th in points allowed, in 2011 they were 15th in PA and this year 5th.

it was on him and he had an easy INT go through a defender's hands then had a ball stick to a helmet. 

[prime21]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Pats D was not way better, their Ds have always been overrated and they have come up small in big games often but in 2007 the Pats D was 4th in points allowed, in 2011 they were 15th in PA and this year 5th.

it was on him and he had an easy INT go through a defender's hands then had a ball stick to a helmet. 

That's football.  Guys will drop picks, guys will make amazing picks.  Wins are wins, trophies are trophies.  You can argue til your blue (Carlolina Blue) but he will make the HOF. 

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, prime21 said:

That's football.  Guys will drop picks, guys will make amazing picks.  Wins are wins, trophies are trophies.  You can argue til your blue (Carlolina Blue) but he will make the HOF. 

I still have yet to see real reasons why he will make it or even why he would have a chance.  He was a mediocre player the majority of his career, he played well in 2 playoff runs on teams that were led by great D and STs.  he didn't have to do a heck of a lot to win. he was never among the greats in his generation so he cannot be immortalized as an all time great. 

[The Crusher]

On 1/19/2018 at 3:36 PM, nyjunc said:

not if there are smart, knowledgeable football people voting. leading a team to 17 & 19 pts in 2 SBs shouldn't get you into the HOF.

It’s the Hall of Fame not Hall of statistical excellence. He is famous for beating the Pats in two Superbowls. Plus he is a Manning. 

 

[prime21]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I still have yet to see real reasons why he will make it or even why he would have a chance.  He was a mediocre player the majority of his career, he played well in 2 playoff runs on teams that were led by great D and STs.  he didn't have to do a heck of a lot to win. he was never among the greats in his generation so he cannot be immortalized as an all time great. 

 

In the company of HOF's.  Add in consecutive streak, 2 rings and it all outweighs the negatives.

 

PASSING YARDS

 

 

Where he ranks: 8th

1. Peyton Manning: 71,940

2. Brett Favre: 71, 838

3. Drew Brees: 66,111

4. Tom Brady: 61,582

5. Dan Marino: 61,361

6. John Elway: 51,475

7. Warren Moon: 49,325

8. Eli Manning: 48,218

9. Fran Tarkenton: 47,003

10. Ben Roethlisberger: 46,814

 

 

PASSING TOUCHDOWNS

 

 

 

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 539

2. Brett Favre: 508

3. Drew Brees: 465

4. Tom Brady: 456

5. Dan Marino: 420

6. Fran Tarkenton: 342

7. Eli Manning: 320

8. Philip Rivers: 314

9. Ben Roethlisberger: 301

10. John Elway: 300

 

 

PASSES COMPLETED

 

 

 

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Brett Favre: 6,300

2. Peyton Manning: 6,125

3. Drew Brees: 5,836

4. Tom Brady: 5,244

5. Dan Marino: 4,967

6. John Elway: 4,123

7. Eli Manning: 4,072

8. Warren Moon: 3,988

9. Drew Bledsoe: 3,839

10. Philip Rivers: 3,811

 

4TH QUARTER COMEBACKS

 

 

 

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 45

2. Tom Brady: 39

t-3. Dan Marino: 36

t-3. Johnny Unitas: 36

5. John Elway: 35

6. Joe Montana: 31

t-7. Brett Favre: 30

t-7. Eli Manning: 30

t-7. Fran Tarkenton: 30

10. Ben Roethlisberger: 29

[prime21]

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/07/rarefied_air_do_you_know_where_giants_qb_eli_manni.html

 

"HE'S A LOCK FOR CANTON

Debating Manning's Hall of Fame-worthiness is silly. He's a two-time Super Bowl MVP who could rank in the top five of every major passing category by the end of his career. Every other quarterback repeatedly in the top 10 is in the Hall of Fame or is a lock to make it. That includes quarterbacks who don't have a postseason resume that compares to Manning's.

Football isn't baseball where numbers mean everything, but it's impossible to ignore Manning's stats. Longevity obviously plays a role, but only great quarterbacks play long enough to amass such numbers and Manning's durability is another quality that adds to his value.

Manning is a lock for the Hall of Fame. The only question remaining is if he makes it on the first ballot."

[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

It’s the Hall of Fame not Hall of statistical excellence. He is famous for beating the Pats in two Superbowls. Plus he is a Manning. 

 

don't be confused by the title, it's not about fame, it's about the greatest players to ever play.  50% of the players in the Hall most fans have never heard of.

3 hours ago, prime21 said:

 

In the company of HOF's.  Add in consecutive streak, 2 rings and it all outweighs the negatives.

 

PASSING YARDS

 

 

Where he ranks: 8th

1. Peyton Manning: 71,940

2. Brett Favre: 71, 838

3. Drew Brees: 66,111

4. Tom Brady: 61,582

5. Dan Marino: 61,361

6. John Elway: 51,475

7. Warren Moon: 49,325

8. Eli Manning: 48,218

9. Fran Tarkenton: 47,003

10. Ben Roethlisberger: 46,814

 

 

PASSING TOUCHDOWNS

 

 

 

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 539

2. Brett Favre: 508

3. Drew Brees: 465

4. Tom Brady: 456

5. Dan Marino: 420

6. Fran Tarkenton: 342

7. Eli Manning: 320

8. Philip Rivers: 314

9. Ben Roethlisberger: 301

10. John Elway: 300

 

 

PASSES COMPLETED

 

 

 

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Brett Favre: 6,300

2. Peyton Manning: 6,125

3. Drew Brees: 5,836

4. Tom Brady: 5,244

5. Dan Marino: 4,967

6. John Elway: 4,123

7. Eli Manning: 4,072

8. Warren Moon: 3,988

9. Drew Bledsoe: 3,839

10. Philip Rivers: 3,811

 

4TH QUARTER COMEBACKS

 

 

 

Where he ranks: 7th

1. Peyton Manning: 45

2. Tom Brady: 39

t-3. Dan Marino: 36

t-3. Johnny Unitas: 36

5. John Elway: 35

6. Joe Montana: 31

t-7. Brett Favre: 30

t-7. Eli Manning: 30

t-7. Fran Tarkenton: 30

10. Ben Roethlisberger: 29

You forgot the part where his is SIXTH all time in pass attempts.  He is a compiler, never leading in any major category other than INTs which he has done 3 times.  he has never been considered a top QB, never made any all pro team of any kind, only earned 2 pro bowl selections, has missed the playoffs 7 of 9 years, has never won a playoff game where his D allowed more than 20 pts, has never led O to more than 20 in a playoff loss, led SB talented teams to 10-6 and 9-7 records while playing in a weak division.

 

4th qtr comebacks is a joke stat.  I already showed you about the playoff version where he is listed w/ 5 but only has 2 real ones.

 

The author of that article clearly doesn't understand the game and is just posting blind, compiled stats.  Vinny Testaverde as top 10 in all the categories when he retired- is he in the Hall?  Just b/c Eli played his entire career in this pass happy, rules skewed toward pass O era doesn't make him a HOFer.  HOFers are the best of the best, Eli is clearly not one of the best of the best. 

This clown notes how Eli is ahead of marino and others for comp %. this is exactly why he doesn't belong.  Marino was top 10 in 10 seasons in comp %, Eli top 10 ONE time(9th).  this says it all, he's looking at meaningless compiled #s, the #s that get you in the Hall are against your peers not against QBs from different eras.

 

I will crack out this comparison again.  Eli vs. Johnny Unitas.  No sane person who has ever watched a single game would compare the 2 but w/ out of context compiled #s it looks like Eli was the MUCH better QB.

Unitas played in 211 games, Eli 216 so almost the same # of games played

pass yds:

Eli 51,682

unitas 40,239

pass TDs:

Eli 339

Unitas 290

completions:

Eli 4424

Unitas 2830

comp %:

Eli 59.8

Unitas 54.6

 

Man Eli was so much better!

Now let's compare them against their peers

TD pass:

Eli 4x in top 5(only had 1 good season among them) never led

Unitas led 4x and was top 5 9x

 

pass yds:

Eli 3x top 5, never led

Unitas led 4x, top 5 11x

 

completions:

Eli: top 5 one time(5th)

Unitas led 3x, top 5 11x

 

comp %:

Eli top 5 1x(9th)

Unitas led 1x, top 5 10x

 

all pro selections:

Eli ZERO of any kind

Unitas 6x 1st team, 4x 2nd team

 

career records:

Eli 111-103 barely over .500

Unitas 118-63-4(7 more wins w/ 48 LESS losses)

 

The compiled #s are a silly way to judge a HOF player.  Eli has been nothing more than a compiler, he doesn't even belong in the HOF discussion let alone actually getting in.

 

[prime21]

When he’s giving his speech at the HOF, you should walk around the crowd with a sign protesting his acceptance.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetsplayer21]

12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

don't be confused by the title, it's not about fame, it's about the greatest players to ever play.  50% of the players in the Hall most fans have never heard of.

You forgot the part where his is SIXTH all time in pass attempts.  He is a compiler, never leading in any major category other than INTs which he has done 3 times.  he has never been considered a top QB, never made any all pro team of any kind, only earned 2 pro bowl selections, has missed the playoffs 7 of 9 years, has never won a playoff game where his D allowed more than 20 pts, has never led O to more than 20 in a playoff loss, led SB talented teams to 10-6 and 9-7 records while playing in a weak division.

 

4th qtr comebacks is a joke stat.  I already showed you about the playoff version where he is listed w/ 5 but only has 2 real ones.

 

The author of that article clearly doesn't understand the game and is just posting blind, compiled stats.  Vinny Testaverde as top 10 in all the categories when he retired- is he in the Hall?  Just b/c Eli played his entire career in this pass happy, rules skewed toward pass O era doesn't make him a HOFer.  HOFers are the best of the best, Eli is clearly not one of the best of the best. 

This clown notes how Eli is ahead of marino and others for comp %. this is exactly why he doesn't belong.  Marino was top 10 in 10 seasons in comp %, Eli top 10 ONE time(9th).  this says it all, he's looking at meaningless compiled #s, the #s that get you in the Hall are against your peers not against QBs from different eras.

 

I will crack out this comparison again.  Eli vs. Johnny Unitas.  No sane person who has ever watched a single game would compare the 2 but w/ out of context compiled #s it looks like Eli was the MUCH better QB.

Unitas played in 211 games, Eli 216 so almost the same # of games played

pass yds:

Eli 51,682

unitas 40,239

pass TDs:

Eli 339

Unitas 290

completions:

Eli 4424

Unitas 2830

comp %:

Eli 59.8

Unitas 54.6

 

Man Eli was so much better!

Now let's compare them against their peers

TD pass:

Eli 4x in top 5(only had 1 good season among them) never led

Unitas led 4x and was top 5 9x

 

pass yds:

Eli 3x top 5, never led

Unitas led 4x, top 5 11x

 

completions:

Eli: top 5 one time(5th)

Unitas led 3x, top 5 11x

 

comp %:

Eli top 5 1x(9th)

Unitas led 1x, top 5 10x

 

all pro selections:

Eli ZERO of any kind

Unitas 6x 1st team, 4x 2nd team

 

career records:

Eli 111-103 barely over .500

Unitas 118-63-4(7 more wins w/ 48 LESS losses)

 

The compiled #s are a silly way to judge a HOF player.  Eli has been nothing more than a compiler, he doesn't even belong in the HOF discussion let alone actually getting in.

 

Exactly. Next yr or yr after Carson Palmer will break in top 10 in all time passing yards. He has played in 34 less games than Eli. Are are we going to start talking Carson Palmer HOF too ? Lol. That will make only elway and Marino to be the only 2 qbs in top 10 all time passing yards not to play after 2010. Clearing the game has changed to a passing league. That diluted stat Does not carry much weight anymore.

[nyjunc]

15 minutes ago, prime21 said:

When he’s giving his speech at the HOF, you should walk around the crowd with a sign protesting his acceptance.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

#notmyHallofFamer

 

fortunately I have hopes the people that vote will have a real chance to examine exactly what he has done(or hasn't done) to be among the all time greats.

5 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Exactly. Next yr or yr after Carson Palmer will break in top 10 in all time passing yards. He has played in 34 less games than Eli. Are are we going to start talking Carson Palmer HOF too ? Lol. That will make only elway and Marino to be the only 2 qbs in top 10 all time passing yards not to play after 2010. Clearing the game has changed to a passing league. That diluted stat Does not carry much weight anymore.

it's a joke he is even being discussed. He's played 14 years, have we ever heard of him talked about as a great of this generation? never. he's a nice, solid starter that a tam can win w/ if they have great pieces around him. he's not a difference maker or they would have won more than 10 & 9 games in the 2 SB seasons and wouldn't be playoff-less in 7 of the last 9 seasons playing in a mostly weak division.

[prime21]

59 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

#notmyHallofFamer

 

fortunately I have hopes the people that vote will have a real chance to examine exactly what he has done(or hasn't done) to be among the all time greats.

it's a joke he is even being discussed. He's played 14 years, have we ever heard of him talked about as a great of this generation? never. he's a nice, solid starter that a tam can win w/ if they have great pieces around him. he's not a difference maker or they would have won more than 10 & 9 games in the 2 SB seasons and wouldn't be playoff-less in 7 of the last 9 seasons playing in a mostly weak division.

Is Arron Rogers a difference maker?  How about Peyton?  Marino, Farve?  They win tons of games yet how many rings do they have.  How do all those years of 10 plus wins stack up to SB wins?   

[prime21]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Exactly. Next yr or yr after Carson Palmer will break in top 10 in all time passing yards. He has played in 34 less games than Eli. Are are we going to start talking Carson Palmer HOF too ? Lol. That will make only elway and Marino to be the only 2 qbs in top 10 all time passing yards not to play after 2010. Clearing the game has changed to a passing league. That diluted stat Does not carry much weight anymore.

These are stats that accompany him winning two SB MVP awards.  

[Jetsplayer21]

14 minutes ago, prime21 said:

These are stats that accompany him winning two SB MVP awards.  

Well they can’t give the mvp to the entire D, they should have. Keeping the great O pats to under 20 points is HOF worthy. But I’m glad you agree, if Eli played for the browns we definitely are not having this discussion about Eli and HOF

[prime21]

What will the voters look at?  First and foremost they look for the rings.  With the two rings and 2 MVP awards, he is more than qualified to be discussed as a HOF'er. Then they see his placement in all the stats I mentioned above and the company that surrounds him.  Then they see how during his 8 wins in those 2 super bowl runs he threw 15 td's and only two interceptions.  Then their minds drift to how during the playoffs, 5 of the 6 games were on the road and they were under dogs in all those games.  Then they remember him being the QB versus perhaps the greatest team the NFL ever saw to that point and beating them with under two minutes to play.  Then he goes out and does it again with minutes to spare vs another Patriots 13 win team.   

Then they start looking at all the negative numbers you have been showing us and they place all of that on one of those tipping scales.  It's doesn't even take a second before the weight of the positives above hit the base of the scale and then he is announced as a new inductee in the HOF.

 

No one will ever confuse Eli with with his brother or Arron Rogers but I'm sure they would both trade in all those wonderful stats they have complied to get that extra ring Eli has.  

[nyjunc]

24 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Is Arron Rogers a difference maker?  How about Peyton?  Marino, Farve?  They win tons of games yet how many rings do they have.  How do all those years of 10 plus wins stack up to SB wins?   

it's not insane enough to say he's a HOfer, now you have to try to compare him to some of the all time greats?

Remember, Eli has won PO games in 2 seasons and never won a PO game where his D allowed more than 20. I'm going to put aside the all pros, league MVPs and everything else that separates those true greats from Eli and just focus on postseason where people think Eli is a HOfer b/c he won 2 SBs. Eli led his Os to 18 PPG in SBs and D allowed 15.5 PPG

 

Eli: never won PO game where D allowed more than 20, never led an O to more than 20 in a playoff loss so essentially unless his D is playing great his team has no chance. Eli has missed POs 7 of 9 seasons and  has been 1 and done 67% of the time he has reached postseason.

Rodgers: won his lone SB when his D allowed 25 pts, has lost a PO games when leading his O to 45 points.  That's more pints than Eli has led his O's COMBINED in his 4 playoff losses.  he's also won PO games in 5 postseasons and has only gone 1 and done in 2 postseasons(29%)

Peyton: also has the Manning family 1 and done trait(60% of his postseasons) but led his teams to the playoffs every year outside of his rookie year and 1 other year.  he won Po games w/ opponents scoring 31 & 34.

Marino: never won a SB, his lone SB his D allowed 38 points, in Eli's TWO SBs his D allowed a total of 31 points. Only 1 and done 3 times in 10 years(30%)

favre: another postseason choker but in his 2 SB apps his D's allowed 26 PPG, in his 2 playoff games he led his o's to 26 PPG.  In 12 postseasons he went 1 and done just 2 times(17%), he won PO games where the opponent scored 24, 21(SB), 27, . he lost PO games scoring 27, 24, 27 & 28

 

Please don't ever bring up al time greats in a comparison w/ Eli manning.  Eli was very fortunate to win 2 SBs thanks to his D shutting down the greatest QB of all time, that doesn't make him a HOFer or put him above other all time greats that won fewer SBs or none at all.  Jim Kelly was a million times better than Eli and was 0-4.  he didn't have the NYG D.

[prime21]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Well they can’t give the mvp to the entire D, they should have. Keeping the great O pats to under 20 points is HOF worthy. But I’m glad you agree, if Eli played for the browns we definitely are not having this discussion about Eli and HOF

You can do that for almost any player.  Is Brady winning 5 or 6 super Bowls with the Jets?  

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, prime21 said:

You can do that for almost any player.  Is Brady winning 5 or 6 super Bowls with the Jets?  

No just two ha. Even if it was none, like dan Marino he still is HOF on a bad team. Not Eli 

[prime21]

Just now, nyjunc said:

it's not insane enough to say he's a HOfer, now you have to try to compare him to some of the all time greats?

Remember, Eli has won PO games in 2 seasons and never won a PO game where his D allowed more than 20. I'm going to put aside the all pros, league MVPs and everything else that separates those true greats from Eli and just focus on postseason where people think Eli is a HOfer b/c he won 2 SBs. Eli led his Os to 18 PPG in SBs and D allowed 15.5 PPG

 

Eli: never won PO game where D allowed more than 20, never led an O to more than 20 in a playoff loss so essentially unless his D is playing great his team has no chance. Eli has missed POs 7 of 9 seasons and  has been 1 and done 67% of the time he has reached postseason.

Rodgers: won his lone SB when his D allowed 25 pts, has lost a PO games when leading his O to 45 points.  That's more pints than Eli has led his O's COMBINED in his 4 playoff losses.  he's also won PO games in 5 postseasons and has only gone 1 and done in 2 postseasons(29%)

Peyton: also has the Manning family 1 and done trait(60% of his postseasons) but led his teams to the playoffs every year outside of his rookie year and 1 other year.  he won Po games w/ opponents scoring 31 & 34.

Marino: never won a SB, his lone SB his D allowed 38 points, in Eli's TWO SBs his D allowed a total of 31 points. Only 1 and done 3 times in 10 years(30%)

favre: another postseason choker but in his 2 SB apps his D's allowed 26 PPG, in his 2 playoff games he led his o's to 26 PPG.  In 12 postseasons he went 1 and done just 2 times(17%), he won PO games where the opponent scored 24, 21(SB), 27, . he lost PO games scoring 27, 24, 27 & 28

 

Please don't ever bring up al time greats in a comparison w/ Eli manning.  Eli was very fortunate to win 2 SBs thanks to his D shutting down the greatest QB of all time, that doesn't make him a HOFer or put him above other all time greats that won fewer SBs or none at all.  Jim Kelly was a million times better than Eli and was 0-4.  he didn't have the NYG D.

You asked if Eli was a difference maker.    I gave you some of the best difference makers in the history of the NFL yet they really can't match what Eli had done in the Super Bowl.  So difference maker or not, what matters is who is standing at the end of the Super Bowl.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, prime21 said:

What will the voters look at?  First and foremost they look for the rings.  With the two rings and 2 MVP awards, he is more than qualified to be discussed as a HOF'er. Then they see his placement in all the stats I mentioned above and the company that surrounds him.  Then they see how during his 8 wins in those 2 super bowl runs he threw 15 td's and only two interceptions.  Then their minds drift to how during the playoffs, 5 of the 6 games were on the road and they were under dogs in all those games.  Then they remember him being the QB versus perhaps the greatest team the NFL ever saw to that point and beating them with under two minutes to play.  Then he goes out and does it again with minutes to spare vs another Patriots 13 win team.   

Then they start looking at all the negative numbers you have been showing us and they place all of that on one of those tipping scales.  It's doesn't even take a second before the weight of the positives above hit the base of the scale and then he is announced as a new inductee in the HOF.

 

No one will ever confuse Eli with with his brother or Arron Rogers but I'm sure they would both trade in all those wonderful stats they have complied to get that extra ring Eli has.  

if they are doing that then they are doing their jobs wrong.  they should look at the overall body of work and how they won those rings.  Eli did play well but each NFC title they won the GW FG was set up by turnovers in OT and they won 2 SBs where Eli led his O's to 17 & 19 points.  SB MVP is irrelevant as anyone watching knows he didn't deserve either but they couldn't give it to the entire D.

all his positives that you list came over a 2 month span in 8 playoff games, what about his other 4 playoff trips?  what happened there? what about being consistently great year in and year out? that is what a HOFer is not someone who looks great one week and like a rookie 4th rounder the next.

Peyton has the same # of rings and he was carried to his last SB, peyton should have 4-5 rings but he did what Eli did ion the majority of his postseason apps and played poorly.  Rings are great, that is the goal but some guys can't play O and D, I guarantee you Rodgers has many more rings if his D played like Eli's did in those 2 SB runs.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, prime21 said:

You can do that for almost any player.  Is Brady winning 5 or 6 super Bowls with the Jets?  

Maybe, he'd have won a few at least.  remember, BB was the failure pre Brady not the other way around.  we had some talented teams that couldn't get past Brady and the one that did if we added Brady we easily win the SB.

1 minute ago, prime21 said:

You asked if Eli was a difference maker.    I gave you some of the best difference makers in the history of the NFL yet they really can't match what Eli had done in the Super Bowl.  So difference maker or not, what matters is who is standing at the end of the Super Bowl.

he wasn't a difference maker, the difference makers on those teams played on D.  A difference maker does better than 10-6 and 9-7 w/ SB talent in a weak division.  If those other QBs D's played like NYGs did for Eli in those 2 runs they win many more but those QBs at least give their teams an chance to win w/o great D unlike Eli who needed everything perfect to win.

[prime21]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Maybe, he'd have won a few at least.  remember, BB was the failure pre Brady not the other way around.  we had some talented teams that couldn't get past Brady and the one that did if we added Brady we easily win the SB.

he wasn't a difference maker, the difference makers on those teams played on D.  A difference maker does better than 10-6 and 9-7 w/ SB talent in a weak division.  If those other QBs D's played like NYGs did for Eli in those 2 runs they win many more but those QBs at least give their teams an chance to win w/o great D unlike Eli who needed everything perfect to win.

It's a team game.  You just stated if Rogers had a better defense then he would have won more Super bowls.   The defense did all it could to get to the ball in Eli's hands in the last minutes of each Super Bowl.  He went out and drove them down the field each time and led the victory.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, prime21 said:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/07/rarefied_air_do_you_know_where_giants_qb_eli_manni.html

 

"HE'S A LOCK FOR CANTON

Debating Manning's Hall of Fame-worthiness is silly. He's a two-time Super Bowl MVP who could rank in the top five of every major passing category by the end of his career. Every other quarterback repeatedly in the top 10 is in the Hall of Fame or is a lock to make it. That includes quarterbacks who don't have a postseason resume that compares to Manning's.

Football isn't baseball where numbers mean everything, but it's impossible to ignore Manning's stats. Longevity obviously plays a role, but only great quarterbacks play long enough to amass such numbers and Manning's durability is another quality that adds to his value.

Manning is a lock for the Hall of Fame. The only question remaining is if he makes it on the first ballot."

In fairness, when he retired I think the likes of Testaverde and Bledsoe were among the career leaders. Bledsoe called it quits at age 34 (he had around the same yards as Manning through age 34 season), and with his prime spent in the pre-Peyton-Manning era passing rules. So the idea otherwise is that a significant reason for one getting in and the other not is because of Eli's most recent 2 seasons.

Debating it is not silly. There are legitimate reasons for and against. I think some of the stats, like junc with the "the D only gave up 17 and 14 points!" stuff is absolving others as well. They had 3 scoring drives stall by Giants penalties that turned more manageable into 3rd & 10-15 where they instead punted. All season long, Pats-opponent offenses didn't even convert 10 such 3rd & 10+ situations all season long against NE (including games played on the offense's home turfs). One of those 9 conversions was Eli himself, and another was Vince Young scrambling. So I think that's a bit overstating to make it sound like the win was just served on Eli's lap. 

I'm apparently in the minority, but I'd rather have a dominant player for half the time rather than a very good player for much longer. 

Don't forget a lot of these all-time yardage rankings - whether passing or rushing or rushing - compared to yester-year weren't just aided by a more diverse number of offensive strategies and modern technology, but also sheerly because of injury recovery. For example, go back to the 80s era or earlier, and Brady's career as an above-average QB may have been basically over for good in 2008. Even earlier if the Pats weren't allowed to blatantly hold pass rushers and tacklers with such impunity.

[Charlie Brown]

Only Jets fans sit around debating whether another team's "All Time Great" is worthy of the HOF.

People knock Manning and stat this and stat that... when we Jets fans don't have anybody in the same zip code who has accomplished what that guy has accomplished on the football field, especially at the QB position....

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Only Jets fans sit around debating whether another team's "All Time Great" is worthy of the HOF.

People knock Manning and stat this and stat that... when we Jets fans don't have anybody in the same zip code who has accomplished what that guy has accomplished on the football field, especially at the QB position....

I agree this takes away valuable time that's better spent criticizing the Jets' Masters: the Johnsons, Maccagnan, and Bowles.

Also Master Anderson's latest arrest, and the promotion of Master Bates.  

[Charlie Brown]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I agree this takes away valuable time that's better spent criticizing the Jets' Masters: the Johnsons, Maccagnan, and Bowles.

Also Master Anderson's latest arrest, and the promotion of Master Bates.  

Alas sir you are unfortunately correct....  

I again vote yes on Eli Manning...

It is simple to me no QB has had the level of success he has had over the last forty years in the NY/NJ market and he won SBs.  I for one would take us winning a Championship game let alone a SB at this point.........

Anyway how about them Knicks!!  

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, prime21 said:

It's a team game.  You just stated if Rogers had a better defense then he would have won more Super bowls.   The defense did all it could to get to the ball in Eli's hands in the last minutes of each Super Bowl.  He went out and drove them down the field each time and led the victory.

it is a team game but the best QBs elevate their teams, Eli Manning never did that outside of maybe during the 2011 regular season. The defense made it possible to win SBs scoring 17 & 19 points on offense.  Eli played well but that doesn't make him a HOfer.  HOfers are consistently great, Eli Manning has rarely been great.

[prime21]

it is a team game but the best QBs elevate their teams, Eli Manning never did that outside of maybe during the 2011 regular season. The defense made it possible to win SBs scoring 17 & 19 points on offense.  Eli played well but that doesn't make him a HOfer.  HOfers are consistently great, Eli Manning has rarely been great.

Every HOF QB was consistently great?? Where do you get your info from?


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[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Every HOF QB was consistently great?? Where do you get your info from?


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every HOF QB has made at least one all pro team and yes every HOF QB was great on a consistent basis, that doesn't mean they were great all the time but the majority of their careers they were great. They would lead the league in positive categories, earn all pros, earn more than 2 pro bowl selections, not miss the playoffs 7 of 9 seasons, not get multiple HCs fired in a 2 year span, not have a record barely above .500.  He is everything a HOF QB is not.

find me a QB in the Hall w/ a similar resume to Eli

[prime21]

every HOF QB has made at least one all pro team and yes every HOF QB was great on a consistent basis, that doesn't mean they were great all the time but the majority of their careers they were great. They would lead the league in positive categories, earn all pros, earn more than 2 pro bowl selections, not miss the playoffs 7 of 9 seasons, not get multiple HCs fired in a 2 year span, not have a record barely above .500.  He is everything a HOF QB is not.
find me a QB in the Hall w/ a similar resume to Eli

It pains you to accept that the two SB wins and MVP’s will out weigh everything you are fighting against. For everything he has done great, you oppose with some bad stat or compare him to someone else. The same way I oppose your negative stats with positives and give you names of QB’s that do not have super bowl rings or only 1. An ugly man is more attractive to women when he is wealthy. Eli’sSB accomplishments and among the top 10 in many statistics make him attractive to the voters. He will never be confused as being an elite or an all time great but his resume is well out together and he will make it in easily.


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[Grandy]

He's a Hall of Famer, but not first ballot.

Aside from his 2 amazing runs, there isn't much else to highlight. He has never led the league in a single passing stat other than Interceptions, which he's topped the NFL in 3 times. He's not a guy that can change the dynamic of a Team like other greats, His passing stats this year were better than his 07 campaign, but his team finished 3-13. The question I think we all need to ask is: Would he have been as successful on another team? Ultimately he gets in, Rightfully so, but I don't consider him to be on the same level as other legend QB's.

[nyjunc]

12 hours ago, prime21 said:

 

 

It pains you to accept that the two SB wins and MVP’s will out weigh everything you are fighting against. For everything he has done great, you oppose with some bad stat or compare him to someone else. The same way I oppose your negative stats with positives and give you names of QB’s that do not have super bowl rings or only 1. An ugly man is more attractive to women when he is wealthy. Eli’sSB accomplishments and among the top 10 in many statistics make him attractive to the voters. He will never be confused as being an elite or an all time great but his resume is well out together and he will make it in easily.


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It pains me that people are overlooking his entire body of work for 2 months of work where his D led the way, anyone who knows anything about football would agree he didn't deserve either SB MVP.  Being top 10 in stats is great but he's done so b/c of the era he's played in and he's thrown the ball a million times mostly in meaningless games to pad stats.  the people that just look at blind, meaningless, out of context #s will think he's a HOfer, the people that actually watch him play know he's not.

to get into the HOF you need to be elite and an all time great, they don't just put you in b/c you are a nice guy or had a nice moment or 2.  so you have said it yourself, you really don't think he belongs.  Thank you for finally admitting it.

10 hours ago, Grandy said:

He's a Hall of Famer, but not first ballot.

Aside from his 2 amazing runs, there isn't much else to highlight. He has never led the league in a single passing stat other than Interceptions, which he's topped the NFL in 3 times. He's not a guy that can change the dynamic of a Team like other greats, His passing stats this year were better than his 07 campaign, but his team finished 3-13. The question I think we all need to ask is: Would he have been as successful on another team? Ultimately he gets in, Rightfully so, but I don't consider him to be on the same level as other legend QB's.

your entire post is full of reasons why he shouldn't make it but you say he should, what? the real question is could NYG have won 2 SBs w/ any decent QB and the answer would have been yes.  Switch Sanchez and Eli on 07/11 NYG and 09/10 NYJ and the team results remain the same. Both QBs played well in those runs but both teams were led by their Ds(and STs in NYGs case).  NYJ didn't make Sbs b/c of the D/STs, NYG made both b/c of D/STs

[prime21]

your entire post is full of reasons why he shouldn't make it but you say he should, what? the real question is could NYG have won 2 SBs w/ any decent QB and the answer would have been yes.  Switch Sanchez and Eli on 07/11 NYG and 09/10 NYJ and the team results remain the same. Both QBs played well in those runs but both teams were led by their Ds(and STs in NYGs case).  NYJ didn't make Sbs b/c of the D/STs, NYG made both b/c of D/STs

Eli deserves and belongs to be in he HOF.


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[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, prime21 said:

 

 

Eli deserves and belongs to be in he HOF.


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as long as you say so, you can't give me an actual argument but keep saying and maybe I'll change my mind

[prime21]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

as long as you say so, you can't give me an actual argument but keep saying and maybe I'll change my mind

I've been giving you arguments for the past two days.  We are going around in