Has there been a Giants-Jets Pick Swap Thread?

[nyjunc]

15 hours ago, Warfish said:

Yes I would absolutely feel better about the GM.  

He drafted, and missed, on Petty.  On resigning Fitz. 

He then drafted and missed, badly, overreachingly, on Hack.  

He picks McCown, and somehow even that screws up, better than expected, not bad enough to help us.

Then he had a legit franchise #1 QB, with character to boot, sitting in front of him.....and he passed.  For a Safety.  No Safety is worth that, none in the history of the NFL.

Then he doubles down on McCown for more than twice what a young, still-with-potential AJ McCrayon gets.  

And he signs Teddy Wounded Knee, a JAG everyone wants to talk up as a future HOF'er cut down in his developing prime, lol, and not the less good Sanchez he actually was production and play wise.  

Now we're expected to believe this same guy, who has swing and missed, badly, at every QB decision he's made since the day he arrived.....should be trusted when he sells a goodly chunk of our draft assets to get to #3, and perhaps more to get to #2?  And then picks "his guy".

As you say, no benefit of the doubt or trust has been earned.

he hasn't taken a high pick at QB.  he has taken later round chances that you hope you get lucky and he hasn't been lucky yet.  He is handling the QB situation perfectly this offseason but w/ that nothing is guaranteed.  If it was easy to find a franchise QB everyone would have one.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he hasn't taken a high pick at QB.  he has taken later round chances that you hope you get lucky and he hasn't been lucky yet.  He is handling the QB situation perfectly this offseason but w/ that nothing is guaranteed.  If it was easy to find a franchise QB everyone would have one.

A second round pick is a high pick. 

[varjet]

I think the Bears were suckers for moving up last year.  It only works if there are other real bidders for the Giants pick who will take who the Jets want.  Otherwise the Giants will take who they want or risk that the Jets take him.  

In poetic justice the Giants are in a similar spot this year that the Jets were in 2016.  Common sense said they should rebuild and move on from the veteran.  But the Jets were competitive in 2015, and there was a chance they could be competitive again.   If the Giants pick a QB they are giving up on eli, obj and the veterans they signed last year.   The Giants have to either take Barkley or trade down and get more players, like Nelson.  I would interested to see what their fan polls say.  

[Freemanm]

On 3/19/2018 at 12:54 AM, Dcronin said:

Does that make sense?  We get into #2 to take Rosen or Darnold, Giants get Saquon at #3.

At what cost I don't know. Or, we just stay put.

DC

We stay put. If the Giants wanted to trade down, they blew their chance. The Jets were really the only team with enough ammo to be worth trading down with. Maybe the Colts could be a partner but I don't see why they'd trade down only to trade up again, given that they're not taking a QB.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

A second round pick is a high pick. 

it's not a high 1st.  only Hack was a 2nd rd pick, he took a chance and it didn't work.  You keep trying until it works.  This will be his first all out look for a QB and he will be evaluated based on what happens this offseason.  If teddy or the pick work out he'll be secure here for a while, if not he'll be looking for work soon.

[nyjunc]

55 minutes ago, varjet said:

I think the Bears were suckers for moving up last year.  It only works if there are other real bidders for the Giants pick who will take who the Jets want.  Otherwise the Giants will take who they want or risk that the Jets take him.  

In poetic justice the Giants are in a similar spot this year that the Jets were in 2016.  Common sense said they should rebuild and move on from the veteran.  But the Jets were competitive in 2015, and there was a chance they could be competitive again.   If the Giants pick a QB they are giving up on eli, obj and the veterans they signed last year.   The Giants have to either take Barkley or trade down and get more players, like Nelson.  I would interested to see what their fan polls say.  

The giants aren't in the same position as the Jets 2016.  The Jets 2015 got a great stat year from Fitz and then got held up despite no one wanting fitz in the offseason.  Eli hasn't played well in many, many years and is already under contract.  They know he will be there if they want him but they have a high pick in what is perceived to be a good QB draft.  The giants would be insane not to get a QB believing Eli can do something he hasn't really done since 2011 and that's be a good QB.

[Fantasy Island]

If Mac picks Allen aka Hackenburg 2.0 then we truly effed up.  However, if we get Mayfield or Barkley, then the future is looking bright.

[KINGDIRK]

19 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I just don’t see it. As I mentioned earlier in another thread, when the Jets traded with the Colts, they overpriced the market. They overpaid by 600-some points. The Giants have to look at that and be thinking that they either can get more or there is no reason to take less. The Bills definitely are trying their hardest to move up but if it takes too much out of them...they are best suited to stay put and draft BPA. 

They can get themselves Falk or Rudolph to go along with their 80 2,3,4th round picks.

People act like the draft value chart is gospel; it’s not especially when the team trading up is desperate for a QB (see Jets Colts trade this past weekend)

If the Giants trade out of 2 and I’ll believe that when I see it, it will cost the Bills their two 1st rounders this year, a 2nd rounder and their 1st rounder next year. 

I still don’t see that happening. They take a QB who sits behind Eli for one year (maybe half a season) and takes over next year. That’s probably the most ideal situation for any QB especially in NY. 

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

it's not a high 1st.  only Hack was a 2nd rd pick, he took a chance and it didn't work.  You keep trying until it works.  This will be his first all out look for a QB and he will be evaluated based on what happens this offseason.  If teddy or the pick work out he'll be secure here for a while, if not he'll be looking for work soon.

So we've reached a point where:

1. We expect nothing, and hold no one accountable, for missing on a QB at the #51 pick (2nd Round).

2. We devalue 2nd Round Picks to almost nothing primarily because our GM makes very poor use of them anyway.

3. He's passed on QB's available at our picks who now appear to be legit Franchise-level QB's.

Listen mate, I get that "if blah blah doesn't work out" he'll eventually be fired, maybe, some day, if they don't "exceed expectations" again. 

That doesn't do us any good, it just resets the We-Suck-O-Meter yet again.

I'm sorry, but the man has been GM of the Jets for multiple years now.  He has yet to make a single good decision at the most vital position on the field.  I refuse to give him the pass you seem to give him or to project everything from here on as all roses without a basis in reality.  

[Jetsplayer21]

On 3/19/2018 at 8:06 AM, Jetfan13 said:

that makes no sense, if the G-Men want Barkley, why trade up with them and lose more picks if they still get the guy they targeted anyway?

Exactly. Their unwillingness to trade that pick means they are most likely picking qb 

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So we've reached a point where:

1. We expect nothing, and hold no one accountable, for missing on a QB at the #51 pick (2nd Round).

2. We devalue 2nd Round Picks to almost nothing primarily because our GM makes very poor use of them anyway.

3. He's passed on QB's available at our picks who now appear to be legit Franchise-level QB's.

Listen mate, I get that "if blah blah doesn't work out" he'll eventually be fired, maybe, some day, if they don't "exceed expectations" again. 

That doesn't do us any good, it just resets the We-Suck-O-Meter yet again.

I'm sorry, but the man has been GM of the Jets for multiple years now.  He has yet to make a single good decision at the most vital position on the field.  I refuse to give him the pass you seem to give him or to project everything from here on as all roses without a basis in reality.  

who did he pass on Watson? Watson looked great last year but he's still not a sure thing and certainly wasn't one heading into last years draft or he would have been taken #1 overall. Had we taken him at 5 last year fans would have went nuts saying how we reached for a QB and while our WRs aren't bad we don't have Hopkins and those Texans weapons so who knows what he would have looked like here? and who knows if Bowles would have given him a chance?

He walked into a crazy situation, we had to spend year 1.  The franchise then decided after 2 years to reset and he is overseeing a total rebuild.  I don't even look at those 1st 2 years, for me we start w/ last offseason and he's done a good job since that point.  Now is his first real chance for a top flight QB prospect at the top of the draft.

we can sit here and whine every day and just bash or we can have some optimism now that we have some young talent, we hold a top 3 pick and we are going to have a chance at a franchise QB.

[jamesr]

On 19/03/2018 at 4:51 PM, Greenseed4 said:

Bills-Giants trade scenario:

 

Bills get:

1st round/#2 overall (2600 pts),

4th round/#102 (92 pts)

...2692 total

 

Giants get:

1st round/#12 overall (1200 pts)

1st round/ #21 overall (780 pts)

2nd round/#53 (370 pts)

2nd round/#56 (340 pts)

...2690 total 

 

Bills get ... what they want. Giants get ... completely fleeced. That's the above scenario in my view.

Trade charts can be an OK start point, but if you hold a top pick in a QB heavy draft, the value of that pick is way beyond what the chart says.

Consider this analogy. You have a bottle of water that's worth $1. Someone offers you $1 for it. Do you take it?

What if you're in the middle of a desert and it's your last bottle? Still only worth $1? Do you still sell it?

EDIT - the Jets already gave the Colts picks in THIS YEAR'S draft worth 2,540 points, per the trade chart, AND a second next year that's yet to be valued. Let's assume they only offered the Giants the same, and they turned it down. Why would they later take a lesser deal that also includes a bigger drop in Rd 1 (12 instead of 6) - which takes them out of the premium picks and into the second tier?