Draft: Those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it

[SouthernJet]

I am starting to think Eric and Tanny will pull a page from Pats playbook as far as QB is concerned.

Where was Brady drafted? Exactly.

I think in 1st few rounds we are going to go after athletic defenesive guys to fit into the system and a high end OL.

A QB may be drafted later or next year. We may package a 2nd and 4th to move up a few spots to get Croyle.

[raffyD]

I am starting to think Eric and Tanny will pull a page from Pats playbook as far as QB is concerned.

Where was Brady drafted? Exactly.

I think in 1st few rounds we are going to go after athletic defenesive guys to fit into the system and a high end OL.

A QB may be drafted later or next year. We may package a 2nd and 4th to move up a few spots to get Croyle.

I hope it's not Croyle, I just don't think he can be the man on this level. I do like Whitehurst a lot and was wondering where he is projected to go, 4th round??? If we can get Whitehurst with one of our 4th round picks I think that would be a great value move, jmo.

[PatsFanTX]

I am starting to think Eric and Tanny will pull a page from Pats playbook as far as QB is concerned.

Where was Brady drafted? Exactly.

I think in 1st few rounds we are going to go after athletic defenesive guys to fit into the system and a high end OL.

A QB may be drafted later or next year. We may package a 2nd and 4th to move up a few spots to get Croyle.

SJ,

Using Brady as an example is a poor choice.

First off, Brady was a skinny little runt coming out of Michigan and I have to believe the Pats had him tagged as a #2 or #3 QB, and nothing more.

[Scott Dierking]

Belly's normal mode IS NOT to go O-line early (I understand last year was an anomaly), and they usually build that part of teh team for later in the draft.

I see trade downs, and seeking value for "their" players

[BwanaZulia]

SJ,

Using Brady as an example is a poor choice.

First off, Brady was a skinny little runt coming out of Michigan and I have to believe the Pats had him tagged as a #2 or #3 QB, and nothing more.

This is going to make me sick, but I agree.

Trying to find that diamond in the rough is just way too risky. One of 100 or a 1,000 guys could turn out the be the next Tom Brady in the 6th round.

Build the core this year and see where we are with QBs after the season.

BZ

[bman]

I bet we go hawk at 4..(if not Cutler)

[Sperm Edwards]

Here's NE's picks with BB:

team pick # - round - pick in that round - overall pick (NFL)

2005

1 1 32 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State

2 3 20 84 Ellis Hobbs DB Iowa State

3 3 36 100 Nick Kaczur G Toledo

4 4 32 133 James Sanders DB Fresno State

5 5 34 170 Ryan Claridge LB Nevada-Las Vegas

6 7 16 230 Matt Cassel QB USC

7 7 41 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn

2004

1 1 21 21 Vince Wilfork DT Miami (FL)

2 1 32 32 Ben Watson TE Georgia

3 2 31 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State

4 3 32 95 Guss Scott DB Florida

5 4 17 113 Dexter Reid DB North Carolina

6 4 32 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas

7 5 32 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State

8 7 32 233 Christian Morton DB Illinois

2003

1 1 13 13 Ty Warren DT Texas A&M

2 2 4 36 Eugene Wilson DB Illinois

3 2 13 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M

4 4 20 117 Dan Klecko DT Temple

5 4 23 120 Asante Samuel DB Central Florida

6 5 29 164 Dan Koppen C Boston College

7 6 28 201 Kliff Kingsbury QB Texas Tech

8 7 20 234 Spencer Nead TE Brigham Young

9 7 25 239 Tully Banta-Cain DE California

10 7 29 243 Ethan Kelley DT Baylor

2002

1 1 21 21 Dan Graham TE Colorado

2 2 33 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville

3 4 19 117 Rohan Davey QB Louisiana State

4 4 28 126 Jarvis Green DE Louisiana State

5 7 26 237 Antwoine Womack RB Virginia

6 7 33 244 David Givens WR Notre Dame

2001

1 1 6 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia

2 2 17 48 Matt Light T Purdue

3 3 24 86 Brock Williams DB Notre Dame

4 4 1 96 Kenyatta Jones T South Florida

5 4 24 119 Jabari Holloway TE Notre Dame

6 5 32 163 Hakim Akbar DB Washington

7 6 17 180 Arther Love TE South Carolina State

8 6 37 200 Leonard Myers DB Miami (FL)

9 7 16 216 Owen Pochman K Brigham Young

10 7 39 239 T.J. Turner LB Michigan State

2000

1 2 15 46 Adrian Klemm T Hawaii

2 3 14 76 J.R. Redmond RB Arizona State

3 4 33 127 Greg Robinson-Randall T Michigan State

4 5 12 141 Dave Stachelski TE Boise State

5 5 32 161 Jeff Marriott DT Missouri

6 6 21 187 Antwan Harris DB Virginia

7 6 33 199 Tom Brady QB Michigan

8 6 35 201 David Nugent DT Purdue

9 7 20 226 Casey Tisdale LB New Mexico

10 7 33 239 Patrick Pass RB Georgia

http://drafthistory.com/teams/patriots.html

[PeterNorth09]

I hope it's not Croyle, I just don't think he can be the man on this level. I do like Whitehurst a lot and was wondering where he is projected to go, 4th round??? If we can get Whitehurst with one of our 4th round picks I think that would be a great value move, jmo.

I guess last season's injury-fest wasn't enough to turn some of you guys off from injury prone players. No one in this draft is more injury prone than Brodie Croyle. Croyle is Chad Pennington minus the talent.

Can we try to get players that are at least somewhat durable?

[Stonehands]

I hope it's not Croyle, I just don't think he can be the man on this level. I do like Whitehurst a lot and was wondering where he is projected to go, 4th round??? If we can get Whitehurst with one of our 4th round picks I think that would be a great value move, jmo.

I like Whitehurst with our supplemental pick in round 3.

[PatsFanTX]

10 7 33 239 Patrick Pass RB Georgia

Damn, I forgot Patrick Pass was a 7th round pick.

He has paid of very nicely.

[Ten]

I am starting to think Eric and Tanny will pull a page from Pats playbook as far as QB is concerned.

Where was Brady drafted? Exactly.

I think in 1st few rounds we are going to go after athletic defenesive guys to fit into the system and a high end OL.

A QB may be drafted later or next year. We may package a 2nd and 4th to move up a few spots to get Croyle.

That was a different situation entirely.The pats had their QB and weren't looking to draft a franchise QB,they were looking for a backup.We should be looking for a future franchise QB therefore we should be looking at all options including drafting a QB in the 1st.I'm sure if the pats didn't have Bledsoe then they would be looking at drafting a QB in the 1st.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

I guess last season's injury-fest wasn't enough to turn some of you guys off from injury prone players. No one in this draft is more injury prone than Brodie Croyle. Croyle is Chad Pennington minus the talent.

Can we try to get players that are at least somewhat durable?

i DON'T know what it is but, today pete I have to agree with you again.can't stand these guys with the croyle talk are they smokin the good stuff or what?this guy has more injurys than one of the guys from the WWE. I'd rather chad on 1 foot no arms and throwing with his dic$ than this crash test dummy

[raffyD]

I like Whitehurst with our supplemental pick in round 3.

Good call Stonehands, I forgot about the compensatory pick at the end of round 3. That would make taking Whitehurst with that pick almost like a freebie.

[PeterNorth09]

In the past I forgot to add an injured shoulder and broken ribs to Croyle's already impressive list of injuries. This guy has been hurt more times than Johnny Knoxville.

[StillerPaul]

I bet we go hawk at 4..(if not Cutler)

Hawk would be a very good selection in my mind. I don't think he's gonna be a flop like so many other OSU LBers were.

I feel blessed with my Steelers last few drafts. Troy Polamalu, Ben Roethlisberger and Heath Miller were our last 3 first rounders. One more hit this year would keep us near the top of the league for years IMO.

[SouthernJet]

SJ,

Using Brady as an example is a poor choice.

First off, Brady was a skinny little runt coming out of Michigan and I have to believe the Pats had him tagged as a #2 or #3 QB, and nothing more.

what i meant was, not using the 4th pick in draft on QB is very very feasible

[ThunderbirdJet]

Whether or not the Jets take a QB, I do think you will see a minimum of two, and possibly three O linemen taken with our first seven picks. I also would not be surprised if 2 of our first four picks are O linemen. I think the other four of our top seven will be an LB, a QB, a CB and a clear unpredictable BAP.

Going O line that early is not typical of BB and BP, but I don't even remember either of them having a O line that is as bad a shape as this one is.

And I am more than a little weary of people that think we can get a franchise QB in the sixth round because of Brady. He is an anomoly.

[PeterNorth09]

Hawk would be a very good selection in my mind. I don't think he's gonna be a flop like so many other OSU LBers were.

I feel blessed with my Steelers last few drafts. Troy Polamalu, Ben Roethlisberger and Heath Miller were our last 3 first rounders. One more hit this year would keep us near the top of the league for years IMO.

LB is the one position the Jets are ok in. Plus, the fact that they're players (Vilma, Robertson) are better suited for the 4-3 means it's probably better for us to just stay put there. I like Hawk but I don't think he really fits into what we're doing and I don't think he is good enough to be a "must-draft" kind of guy at 4.

If I was the Steelers I would go running back in Round 1. Willie Parker is good but a team like the Steelers that loves to run the ball needs more than one good back. Take Addai at 31.

[PeterNorth09]

Whether or not the Jets take a QB, I do think you will see a minimum of two, and possibly three O linemen taken with our first seven picks. I also would not be surprised if 2 of our first four picks are O linemen. I think the other four of our top seven will be an LB, a QB, a CB and a clear unpredictable BAP.

Going O line that early is not typical of BB and BP, but I don't even remember either of them having a O line that is as bad a shape as this one is.

And I am more than a little weary of people that think we can get a franchise QB in the sixth round because of Brady. He is an anomoly.

You're more likely to find a Mawae, Fabini or Mackenzie in the later rounds than you are to find a Tom Brady.

[ThunderbirdJet]

LB is the one position the Jets are ok in. Plus, the fact that they're players (Vilma, Robertson) are better suited for the 4-3 means it's probably better for us to just stay put there. I like Hawk but I don't think he really fits into what we're doing and I don't think he is good enough to be a "must-draft" kind of guy at 4.

If I was the Steelers I would go running back in Round 1. Willie Parker is good but a team like the Steelers that loves to run the ball needs more than one good back. Take Addai at 31.

If we want to run some 3-4, I think we will need an LB, and pretty early in the draft. The great thing is we have 6 picks in the top 100, and another at around 112 or so. I would have a hard time thinking that one of those seven picks won't be an LB. Even with the Herm comp pick, a potential starting LB for the 3-4 could be had with good scouting.

[bman]

in the 3-4 we need QUALITY LBS..

I really do not think we are set there at all..

Barton (an expensive pplayer)

Hobson (has shown nothing more than being an average player)

Vilma (Quality)

..

who else...

come to think of it..Jets are definately drafting a LB with one of the first 3 picks.

[serphnx]

It's feasible to take a 1 out of 1000 chance instead of a 1 out of 2 chance? I think we have different definitions of feasible...I mean, yes, you can do that, but not if you actually want a good chance of winning. It's also feasible that I'll win the lottery, but I'm not going to quit my day job when I buy a lottery ticket.

[StillerPaul]

LB is the one position the Jets are ok in. Plus, the fact that they're players (Vilma, Robertson) are better suited for the 4-3 means it's probably better for us to just stay put there. I like Hawk but I don't think he really fits into what we're doing and I don't think he is good enough to be a "must-draft" kind of guy at 4.

If I was the Steelers I would go running back in Round 1. Willie Parker is good but a team like the Steelers that loves to run the ball needs more than one good back. Take Addai at 31.

Well i'm thinkin' that if the Jets make the switch to 3-4, Hawk would make sense at 4 for me because he can flat out rush the passer from OLB, plus he's good in coverage. Ya really can't go wrong with D'brick, Hawk, Williams, or even Ngata at 4 IMO if i'm the jets.

As far as the Steelers go, i'd prefer Nick Mangold if he's there at 32. We're old at C and Mangold could start right away at either G or C IMO. Jeff Hartings probably has a couple years left in him, but he's interchangeable at C and G as well. I'm all in favor of keeping our line young and upgraded since we have most skill positions taken care of. Willie Parker will be coming into his 3rd year, so we should be OK there for at least a couple more seasons. We usually promote from within alot too. We just locked Verron Haynes in as well. He'll be the 3rd down back. The only question mark is can Duce Staley stay healthy? I'm thinkin' they'll go RB by round 3 or later for depth. Actually, this is the first season in quite a while where none of us Steelers fans really know for sure which way we're headed in the early rounds. Usually there is a clear cut position or 2 of need.

[serphnx]

Well i'm thinkin' that if the Jets make the switch to 3-4, Hawk would make sense at 4 for me because he can flat out rush the passer from OLB, plus he's good in coverage. Ya really can't go wrong with D'brick, Hawk, Williams, or even Ngata at 4 IMO if i'm the jets.

As far as the Steelers go, i'd prefer Nick Mangold if he's there at 32. We're old at C and Mangold could start right away at either G or C IMO. Jeff Hartings probably has a couple years left in him, but he's interchangeable at C and G as well. I'm all in favor of keeping our line young and upgraded since we have most skill positions taken care of. Willie Parker will be coming into his 3rd year, so we should be OK there for at least a couple more seasons. We usually promote from within alot too. We just locked Verron Haynes in as well. He'll be the 3rd down back. The only question mark is can Duce Staley stay healthy? I'm thinkin' they'll go RB by round 3 or later for depth. Actually, this is the first season in quite a while where none of us Steelers fans really know for sure which way we're headed in the early rounds. Usually there is a clear cut position or 2 of need.

Well, you just won the Super Bowl, and pretty handily. That means that your team, atleast last year, was better than everyone else's team. When you're better than everyone else, it's hard to find gaping holes that you need to upgrade.

[Shadetree]

in the 3-4 we need QUALITY LBS..

I really do not think we are set there at all..

Barton (an expensive pplayer)

Hobson (has shown nothing more than being an average player)

Vilma (Quality)

..

who else...

come to think of it..Jets are definately drafting a LB with one of the first 3 picks.

HAWK in '04!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guy's a 3 down linebackin' BEAST !!!!!!!!!!!

[StillerPaul]

HAWK in '04!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guy's a 3 down linebackin' BEAST !!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. If youre gonna play the 3-4, LB is the most important position IMO.

[PeterNorth09]

in the 3-4 we need QUALITY LBS..

I really do not think we are set there at all..

Barton (an expensive pplayer)

Hobson (has shown nothing more than being an average player)

Vilma (Quality)

..

who else...

come to think of it..Jets are definately drafting a LB with one of the first 3 picks.

We don't have the players for a 3-4. Period. Who on the Jets is going to play Nose? Dewayne Robertson is too small and too injury plagued to play the most important position in the 3-4. That Monsanto guy we just signed isn't big enough and is probably a scrub. Pouha is a scrub. James Reed is too small and scrub. Vilma is too small to be an ILB in a 3-4 scheme.

I like Hawk too but we need Defensive Line WAY MORE than we need another LB. If we had to go defense at 4 I would take Mario or maybe even Ngata. Hawk isn't that good that we need to change our scheme so we can draft him.

Stick with the 4-3. Our defense was pretty good last year as a 4-3 even though the offense couldn't stay on the field.

If we try to run the 3-4 with Robertson at NT and Vilma as ILB it will be another Jets disaster. Take that to the bank.

[bman]

right...but I think you can take it to the bank that they are going 3-4..

[Shadetree]

We don't have the players for a 3-4. Period. Who on the Jets is going to play Nose? Dewayne Robertson is too small and too injury plagued to play the most important position in the 3-4. Vilma is too small to be an ILB in a 3-4 scheme.

I like Hawk too but we need Defensive Line WAY MORE than we need another LB. If we had to go defense at 4 I would take Mario or maybe even Ngata. Hawk isn't that good that we need to change our scheme so we can draft him.

If we try to run the 3-4 with Robertson at NT and Vilma as ILB it will be another Jets disaster. Take that to the bank.

We're gonna run 3-4....take it to the bank. Sure, we'll run 4-3, 5-2, 2-5, 1-6 and everything in between. It was Beli's nature to run many multiple looks, and I assume it will be Mangini's.

DT's, and DE's will plugged in here, and plugged in there, until we find a team oriented bunch of guys that can play D-line together. Bet your bottom dollar, Mangini will find 3-4 down lineman. Whether they are Leonard Marshall, Ted Washington or not...who the hell knows. But Mangini WILL play planty of 3-4.

I hardly beleive that Vilma is so horrible that he'll get B-slapped in the 3-4. You put Hawk next to him and you have 2 LB's that dont leave the field for first down through third down.......for the next 5-8 years!!!!

HAWK @ '04!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[faba]

There is lots of rampart speculation going around- Mangini and Sutton probably do not really know how and what type of defenses they are going to use yet- how can you when you do not have your full roster in place

[Shadetree]

There is lots of rampart speculation going around- Mangini and Sutton probably do not really know how and what type of defenses they are going to use yet- how can you when you do not have your full roster in place

It's what they run. You dont think that Mangini, after leaving the Belichick staff, is gonna come in and run a Tampa cover 2? Of course not.

Bottom line is that he will run multiple fronts, depending on the opponent, and depending on in-game adjustments. He signed a free agent DE that has played in the 3-4 his whole career with the Steelers and then signs a 300+ lb NT that has much experience at the nose. Trust me, 3-4 will be their base defense.

They might have some growing pains finding pieces to plug in where they want them, but I dont think those growing pains will last too long.

Especially with Hawk next to Vilma for the next 8 years.

[StillerPaul]

All indications thus far are that they are gonna run the 3-4, Faba.

[SouthernJet]

I still think they will draft big OL Doug Heffernan with one of the later picks

[Green Jets & Ham]

I am starting to think Eric and Tanny will pull a page from Pats playbook as far as QB is concerned.

Where was Brady drafted? Exactly.

I think in 1st few rounds we are going to go after athletic defenesive guys to fit into the system and a high end OL.

A QB may be drafted later or next year. We may package a 2nd and 4th to move up a few spots to get Croyle.

Good Post, SJ ... You may be right, but if we don't draft a QB at #4 then I wait until day two

I wouldn't toss a day one pick away on a Croyle, Whitehurst, Jabobs, etc ... I Just don't think any of these cats will ever amount to anything much ... JAG AT BEST ... so I'd either draft a blue-chipper at #4 or I'd draft a high upside, developmental, small school sleeper on day two like Ingle Martin or Erik Meyer

I have my eye on 4 QB's in this draft

EARLY

=====

Jay Cutler

Matt Leinart

DAY TWO

=======

Ingle Martin

Erik Meyer

I don't want none of those Half-Steppin Guys like Croyle, Jacobs, and Whitehurst at the expense of a 3/4

[SouthernJet]

Good Post, SJ ... You may be right, but if we don't draft a QB at #4 then I wait until day two

I wouldn't toss a day one pick away on a Croyle, Whitehurst, Jabobs, etc ... I Just don't think any of these cats will ever amount to anything much ... JAG AT BEST ... so I'd either draft a blue-chipper at #4 or I'd draft a high upside, developmental, small school sleeper on day two like Ingle Martin or Erik Meyer

I have my eye on 4 QB's in this draft

EARLY

=====

Jay Cutler

Matt Leinart

DAY TWO

=======

Ingle Martin

Erik Meyer

I don't want none of those Half-Steppin Guys like Croyle, Jacobs, and Whitehurst at the expense of a 3/4

i agree,, i think your game plan will serve them well.