Sports illustrated piece on Zach Wilson

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

1 minute ago, GangGreened said:

Let’s do like 5 more then. I have him rated as somewhere between 26-30 among QBs, depending on who’s starting that week since there’s a lot of starters missing time. That indeed is improvement from last year when he was around #34.

But apparently, this position bothers you. And I hate him! I hope Zach Wilson gets stuck in NY and can’t spend Christmas with his family! 

AND I’d also rather him start than Trevor Siemien

OK so we are closer to agreeing than disagreeing... 

I have no problem with your position... 

You do you... I disagree that he is that low but stats say otherwise at the moment so you can argue and I have no stats to prove otherwise... 

But I do see on the offense that given what he is dealing with he is performing better than the stats show given the context of the defenses, the OC, the running game, and the drops. 

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I disagree with “mediocre.” He is Curtis Painter-level

OK I disagree with that.. 

Calling him Curtis painter shows that you are not watching or have never watched Painter throw. 

but here comes the Zach hater brigade with @Jet_Engine1neg repping every post like @Prodigal Syndicatehas... Can't believe he seriously spent the time to neg rep every post I have ever made. 

[Jet_Engine1]

Year	Team	Games			Passing
		GP	GS	Record	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	TD	Int	Rtg

Mark Sanchez Year 3:

2011	NYJ	16	16	8–8	308	543	56.7	3,474	6.4	26	18	78.2

Darnold Year 2:

2019	NYJ	13	13	7−6	273	441	61.9	3,024	6.9	92	19	13	84.3

 

The Jets sh*tcanned both of these guys "early" in their career because they weren't the answer.

 

Zach Wilson Year 3:

2023	NYJ	7	6	3–3	127	218	58.3	1,337	6.1	68	5	5	74.3

 

 

And "Jets Fans" here are defending this guy.... Dude is on a BETTER TEAM than Darnold was...

 

 

 

 

[Warfish]

39 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

I share the same opinion as these former players.

Ex-Players tend to shill for other players, mostly.  Especially players either employed by, or who once played for, the team in question. 

And especially players now known as "draft experts" or "QB Experts" when they're already on the record loving the guy they're not shilling for during draft time or the like.  Chris Simms for example.

I am unmoved by so-called experts like "sucked horribly as a QB himself" Dan Orlovsky.

39 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Warfish and J80 and a few others polarize the argument...

But not you and your several hundred thousand neg-reps in response to any and every post even mildly critical or stat-based in re; Zach Wilson?  Perhaps not spamming negreps might de-esclate the polarization eh?

Starting QB is a polarized decision, either a player should, or should not, start.  There is no real middle ground of sorta supporting a guy partially starting, lol.

39 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

I say he is a mediocre QB at the moment making bone headed plays and some amazing dimes and inconsistent... 

Mediocre means "of only moderate quality; not very good".

So I agree with you under the second definition, he's clearly not very good.

But I don't agree he's of "moderate" quality.  Moderate means "average in amount, intensity, quality, or degree:".

Zach has been the 31st, 33rd and current the 29th rated QB in the NFL so far.  That's a long way from mediocre, i.e. "average" type QB production.  All the "amazing dimes" hasn't really changed that as yet.  

Words have meanings and those meanings matter.

Now I expect we'll hear the usual "It's everyone's fault but Zach, muh context, everyone else sucks and that hurts Zachy!" that comes up at this point in the discussion.

39 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

....the whole crew coming out and shouting -'Zach is the worst' he will never be good... He is not NFL QB...

As noted, he simply is amongst the worst producing QB in the NFL over the three year period so far.  That's not an opinion, it's statistics and math.

I don't personally believe he will ever be a quality NFL starter, certainly not for the Jets.  I think we can and should do better then him.  That is an opinion.  If you disagree with it, great.  The burden isn't on me, it's on Zach to start producing as a quality NFL starter. 

Be pissed at him, not me.

39 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

But yet there are many former players and coaches that have been saying otherwise... 

The appeal to authority fallacy is the logical fallacy of saying a claim is true simply because an authority figure made it.

i.e. Just because Jericho Cotchery, or Dan Orlovsky says it on Twitter, doesn't necessarily make it true without objective evidence to support the claim.

 

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

This is the point... Impossible to talk to you... You take something I say and polarize it to an extreme... 

All set man... 

Can you please explain to me what I "polarized to an extreme?"  Everyone said he was "getting better."  I can agree with that.  People can be harsh with their criticism.  I can agree with that.  You said that you can't tell if Zach will be the future.  Well Enunwa specifically states that people are mistaking him for the long term future at QB.  That would indicate they/you are making a mistake in that thought.  

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I disagree with “mediocre.” He is Curtis Painter-level

Okay.  I recant the so does everybody else."

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ex-Players tend to shill for other players, mostly.  Especially players either employed by, or who once played for, the team in question. 

And especially players now known as "draft experts" when they're already on the record loving the guy they're not shilling for during draft time or the like.

I am unmoved by so-called experts like "sucked horribly as a QB" Dan Orlovsky.

But not you and your several hundred thousand neg-reps in response to any and every post even mildly critical or stat-based in re; Zach Wilson?

Starting QB is a polarized decision, either a player should, or should not, start.  There is no real middle ground of sorta supporting a guy partially starting, lol.

Mediocre means "of only moderate quality; not very good".

So I agree with you under the second definition, he's clearly not very good.

But I don't agree he's of "moderate" quality.  Moderate means "average in amount, intensity, quality, or degree:".

Zach has been the 31st, 33rd and current the 29th rates QB in the NFL so far.  That's a long way from mediocre, i.e. "average" type QB production.  All the "amazing dimes" hasn't really changed that as yet.  

Words have meanings and those meanings matter.

Now I expect we'll hear the usual "It's everyone's fault but Zach, muh context, everyone else sucks and that hurts Zachy!" that comes up at this point in the discussion.

As noted, he simply is amongst the worst producing QB in the NFL over the three year period so far.  That's not an opinion, it's statistics and math.

I don't personally believe he will ever be a quality NFL starter, certainly not for the Jets.  That is an opinion.  If you disagree with it, great.  The burden isn't on me, it's on Zach to start producing as a quality NFL starter. 

Be pissed at him, not me.

The appeal to authority fallacy is the logical fallacy of saying a claim is true simply because an authority figure made it.

i.e. Just because Jericho Cotchery, or Dan Orlovsky says it on Twitter, doesn't necessarily make it true without objective evidence to support the claim.

 

Dismissing opinions of former players that are not ALL Former Jets players that I didn't post is a lazy and poor excuse to dismiss... 

The rest of your post is the same sh*t you keep saying... Context doesn't matter only stats... Got it... 

No use in continuing. 

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Can you please explain to me what I "polarized to an extreme?"  Everyone said he was "getting better."  I can agree with that.  People can be harsh with their criticism.  I can agree with that.  You said that you can't tell if Zach will be the future.  Well Enunwa specifically states that people are mistaking him for the long term future at QB.  That would indicate they/you are making a mistake in that thought.  

Okay.  I recant the so does everybody else."

Polarizing saying he will never be an NFL QB.. Pretty polarizing... Keep on though

[Jet_Engine1]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ex-Players tend to shill for other players, mostly.  Especially players either employed by, or who once played for, the team in question. 

And especially players now known as "draft experts" or "QB Experts" when they're already on the record loving the guy they're not shilling for during draft time or the like.  Chris Simms for example.

I am unmoved by so-called experts like "sucked horribly as a QB himself" Dan Orlovsky.

But not you and your several hundred thousand neg-reps in response to any and every post even mildly critical or stat-based in re; Zach Wilson?  Perhaps not spamming negreps might de-esclate the polarization eh?

Starting QB is a polarized decision, either a player should, or should not, start.  There is no real middle ground of sorta supporting a guy partially starting, lol.

Mediocre means "of only moderate quality; not very good".

So I agree with you under the second definition, he's clearly not very good.

But I don't agree he's of "moderate" quality.  Moderate means "average in amount, intensity, quality, or degree:".

Zach has been the 31st, 33rd and current the 29th rated QB in the NFL so far.  That's a long way from mediocre, i.e. "average" type QB production.  All the "amazing dimes" hasn't really changed that as yet.  

Words have meanings and those meanings matter.

Now I expect we'll hear the usual "It's everyone's fault but Zach, muh context, everyone else sucks and that hurts Zachy!" that comes up at this point in the discussion.

As noted, he simply is amongst the worst producing QB in the NFL over the three year period so far.  That's not an opinion, it's statistics and math.

I don't personally believe he will ever be a quality NFL starter, certainly not for the Jets.  I think we can and should do better then him.  That is an opinion.  If you disagree with it, great.  The burden isn't on me, it's on Zach to start producing as a quality NFL starter. 

Be pissed at him, not me.

The appeal to authority fallacy is the logical fallacy of saying a claim is true simply because an authority figure made it.

i.e. Just because Jericho Cotchery, or Dan Orlovsky says it on Twitter, doesn't necessarily make it true without objective evidence to support the claim.

 

In the most respectful way possible, completely respectfully,  that dude is not a Jets fan. He is a BYU homer rooting for his perceived co-religionist and defending the nice Utah boy at all costs from evil and stupid NYC Folks that happen to root for the Jets. 

 

It's @HelenOfTroy syndrome redux and they arent worth talking to, because as soon as their boy is sh*tcanned, they will disappear. 

 

lather, rinse, repeat.

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

In the most respectful way possible, completely respectfully,  that dude is not a Jets fan. He is a BYU homer rooting for his perceived co-religionist and defending the nice Utah boy at all costs from evil and stupid NYC Folks that happen to root for the Jets. 

 

It's @HelenOfTroy syndrome redux and they arent worth talking to, because as soon as their boy is sh*tcanned, they will disappear. 

 

lather, rinse, repeat.

You don't know me I am a former 30+ year season ticket holder that gave up his tickets after moving out of the state... 

GFY... ******* jackass... I have been a Jets Fan longer than you have been alive. 

[Jet_Engine1]

8 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Polarizing saying he will never be an NFL QB.. Pretty polarizing... Keep on though

I will bet you $10,000 (I can provide proof of funding) RIGHT NOW that Zach Wilson will have a worse career than Sam Darnold. I'm only 52, so I expect to be around in 25 months....

 

Put up or shut up.

[Jet_Engine1]

Just now, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

You don't know me I am a former 30+ year season ticket holder that gave up his tickets after moving out of the state... 

GFY... ******* jackass... I have been a Jets Fan longer than you have been alive. 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Polarizing saying he will never be an NFL QB.. Pretty polarizing... Keep on though

First of all, that is what I said.  Not you.  Show me where I polarized what you said?  

He is an NFL QB.   A mid-level backup NFL QB.  Enunwa saying he is a backup, not a starter, and "better than most" puts him around 48th best, give or take.  You are literally discussing if he is going to be the future of the franchise.  I support doing what we can to make him the best he can be and if he becomes starter level great, but Enunwa said you are mistaking him as the long term answer seems to indicate he not going to reach that level, but go on with me being "polarizing."  I mean if properly characterizing what one of his "defenders" says is polarizing, so be it.

[Jet_Engine1]

1 minute ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

You don't know me I am a former 30+ year season ticket holder that gave up his tickets after moving out of the state... 

GFY... ******* jackass... I have been a Jets Fan longer than you have been alive. 

Where were you being "Reasonable" for the superior prospects of Darnold, Sanchez... hell, throw Pennington in. I was here. Where were you, "Mr. Die Hard"? 😆  I KNOW you aren't on any other boards, either. 

 

So, why die on the hill of this guy? Just... compelled? Really?

 

GTFO.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

You don't know me I am a former 30+ year season ticket holder that gave up his tickets after moving out of the state... 

GFY... ******* jackass... I have been a Jets Fan longer than you have been alive. 

You seem to have some difficulty dealing with differences in opinion.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

When one of his "defenders" starts off with 

maybe you need to reevaluate what they are saying in his defense.  

It is a looooooong way from that to all the "heir apparent" to Rodgers BS that has been spouted.

what a total crock of horse sh*t. I love how with all you people the goal posts constantly change. Every post you guys make is, Zach Wilson is f'ng awful, he sucks balls, he is th eworst QB in football, any backup would be better, he is killing this team, play simeon, play boyle, blah blah blah blah blah blah, than, as soon as someone makes some valid points, the goal posts change, its like oooohhhh woooohhhh wait a minute, now we are grading him as a backup, blah blah blah. HE IS A BACKUP!!! AR was the starter, and you all make 578 posts about the backup QB  sucking so bad and killing this team. GTFO with this bs

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

You seem to have some difficulty dealing with differences in opinion.

some of you have difficulty dealing with reality

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Exactly you don't know sh*t... Go back to your hole troll

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

1 minute ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Where were you being "Reasonable" for the superior prospects of Darnold, Sanchez... hell, throw Pennington in. I was here. Where were you, "Mr. Die Hard"? 😆  I KNOW you aren't on any other boards, either. 

 

So, why die on the hill of this guy? Just... compelled? Really?

 

GTFO.

Is that all you know... Feel sorry for you... 

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

You seem to have some difficulty dealing with differences in opinion.

No I have no problem... 

[Jet_Engine1]

2 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Exactly you don't know sh*t... Go back to your hole troll

Been here since 2005, mother****er. You joined last year because Moroni commanded you. All you do is downvote people, and oddly enough, NEVER talk about our players, Defense, STs, or coaching staff 

 

 

JUST Zach Wilson..

 

**** off. 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

what a total crock of horse sh*t. I love how with all you people the goal posts constantly change. Every post you guys make is, Zach Wilson is f'ng awful, he sucks balls, he is th eworst QB in football, any backup would be better, he is killing this team, play simeon, play boyle, blah blah blah blah blah blah, than, as soon as someone makes some valid points, the goal posts change, its like oooohhhh woooohhhh wait a minute, now we are grading him as a backup, blah blah blah. HE IS A BACKUP!!! AR was the starter, and you all make 578 posts about the backup QB  sucking so bad and killing this team. GTFO with this bs

Can you find these alleged posts of mine?  I really want to know where I have been moving these goalposts.  I am little confused as to where you think they are.  I would be happy to have a rational discussion about Wilson.  I know what you think about the anti-Zach crowd.  Do you think you are having a reasonable discussion with me?  Is the @Reasonable Jets Fan?  I'm not the one whining about moving goalposts and polarization or cursing you guys out.  

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

First of all, that is what I said.  Not you.  Show me where I polarized what you said?  

He is an NFL QB.   A mid-level backup NFL QB.  Enunwa saying he is a backup, not a starter, and "better than most" puts him around 48th best, give or take.  You are literally discussing if he is going to be the future of the franchise.  I support doing what we can to make him the best he can be and if he becomes starter level great, but Enunwa said you are mistaking him as the long term answer seems to indicate he not going to reach that level, but go on with me being "polarizing."  I mean if properly characterizing what one of his "defenders" says is polarizing, so be it.

OK I think you are missing the point and it's going over your head... All set. 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

some of you have difficulty dealing with reality

Interesting take.  What reality am I have difficulty with?  I know what QB will start for us on Monday night.  It seems to me that I have a much more realistic view of what that means than you guys.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Can you find these alleged posts of mine?  I really want to know where I have been moving these goalposts.  I am little confused as to where you think they are.  I would be happy to have a rational discussion about Wilson.  I know what you think about the anti-Zach crowd.  Do you think you are having a reasonable discussion with me?  Is the @Reasonable Jets Fan?  I'm not the one whining about moving goalposts and polarization or cursing you guys out.  

oh please, you have been in the zach wilson is the worst human being to ever walk the planet camp forever. Not long ago you were telling me how MLF was getting the last laugh over in LA with a real QB showing how good of an OC he is... None of you want rational discussions, you all want to spam the boards with your bs

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

Just now, Jet_Engine1 said:

Been here since 2005, mother****er. You joined last year because Moroni commanded you. All you do is downvote people, and oddly enough, NEVER talk about our players, Defense, STs, or coaching staff 

 

 

JUST Zach Wilson..

 

**** off. 

Oh got it... So since you joined an internet forum before me gives you more clout... Got it... Jesus what are you an 8 year old? 

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Interesting take.  What reality am I have difficulty with?  I know what QB will start for us on Monday night.  It seems to me that I have a much more realistic view of what that means than you guys.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

All you do is downvote people, and oddly enough, NEVER talk about our players, Defense, STs, or coaching staff 

JUST Zach Wilson..

Not entirely true.....

....he talks about other players and coaches just long enough to throw them under the bus for ruining Zach's great play, lol.

But yeah, he is sorta single-minded as a "Jets Fan" in re: Zach.

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Not entirely true.....

....he talks about other players and coaches just long enough to throw them under the bus for ruining Zach's great play, lol.

But yeah, he is sorta single-minded as a "Jets Fan" in re: Zach.

Again, completely false... But keep going on what you 'know about me' 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

oh please, you have been in the zach wilson is the worst human being to ever walk the planet camp forever. Not long ago you were telling me how MLF was getting the last laugh over in LA with a real QB showing how good of an OC he is... None of you want rational discussions, you all want to spam the boards with your bs

I liked LaFleur.  I don't think I ever said he was getting any kind of laugh.  Just that the idea that he was 100% to blame for Wilson's shortcomings was misguided.  Particularly when his replacement was obviously specifically selected to entice Rodgers to come to the Jets. Not sure what else I am spamming.  Do you have a different take on what Enunwa said?  I'd love to hear it, since it seems pretty self explanatory to me.

 

[Jet_Engine1]

5 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Is that all you know... Feel sorry for you... 

Nobody here knows you. 😆 Nobody cares,  and you're just gonna get banned pretty soon shortly.

 

FYI, the Tom Tupa thing you downvoted? He played QB for the Jets for a minute when Vinny went down on 1999. It was a joke that you didn't get, because you're not a Jets fan, bruh. 

 

FYI, this is "Troll" behavior:

[Jet_Engine1]

4 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Oh got it... So since you joined an internet forum before me gives you more clout... Got it... Jesus what are you an 8 year old? 

 

Nope. 52 year old retired Fire Captain, Combat Vet and father of 2.

 

What was your Mission like? Did you go anywhere interesting?

[Jet_Engine1]

3 minutes ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Again, completely false... But keep going on what you 'know about me' 

You joined for Zachy Poo, and will disappear either when you get banned or Zach is cut. You never took the time to get to know anyone,  just downvote anyone that thought poorly of poor Zach, and scream at them. 

 

You aren't worth knowing. And you'll be gone soon. And all of us actual New York Jets fans, well, we'll still be here. 

[Lith]

This thread has run its course.  Plenty of other threads to discuss Zach in.