A defense of Woody Johnson

[kevinc855]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

A twisting of you like a pretzel may have actually helped.  Did you see the Russini interview I posted in this thread? THAT is someone that is staying out of football operations? Yikes.

OH I'm sorry your right! The owner of the team should HAVE ZERO opinions of the team he watches in person 17 games a year! Not one! Give me a break....the owner of a team has every right to express their opinions and most if not all do offer their candid thoughts to the media

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

OH I'm sorry your right! The owner of the team should HAVE ZERO opinions of the team he watches in person 17 games a year! Not one! Give me a break....the owner of a team has every right to express their opinions and most if not all do offer their candid thoughts to the media

Here, I will explain this to you like you are a 4 year old.

You have made it perfectly clear on this site that you do jot like Joe Douglas, and the job he is doing. Who hired Joe Douglas?

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here, I will explain this to you like you are a 4 year old.

You have made it perfectly clear on this site that you do jot like Joe Douglas, and the job he is doing. Who hired Joe Douglas?

Chris Johnson

[Scott Dierking]

8 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Chris Johnson

[kevinc855]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You asked a question......i answered. 

Sorry it doesn't fit the narrative you want to push

[Scott Dierking]

14 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

You asked a question......i answered. 

Sorry it doesn't fit the narrative you want to push

Narrative? Narrative? What I posted here are the record of the Jets in Wins and Losses and point differential since Johnson has been owner.

Please defend those FACTS in a cogent manner, and explain how that that does not implicate Woody directly.

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

OK, so what would you have done these last 5 years? Enlighten us

I'll jump in.. I would have looked at the QBs in the 2021 draft and decided that the only options were Lawrence or Fields (which I said back then right on this board - and I was wrong on Fields... but NOT on ZW), I would have traded the #2 pick to SF for a Haul, run out 2021 with Darnold and a sh*tload of picks, and rebuilt the team properly. 

[Biggs]

45 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

OH I'm sorry your right! The owner of the team should HAVE ZERO opinions of the team he watches in person 17 games a year! Not one! Give me a break....the owner of a team has every right to express their opinions and most if not all do offer their candid thoughts to the media

What he says isn't the problem.  It's his actions that are the problem.   It's a little disingenious for him to speak as if he was simply a fan instead of the reason he's actually mad.  How about he takes personal responsability.  This offseason there was some amazing coaching talent available instead of improving the staff he expressed his opinion.  

You can't have a culture of competition when the leaders of the players aren't in a competitive environment.  They got a pass when there was clearly better coaching and GM talent available to upgrade the team.  

[kevinc855]

4 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I'll jump in.. I would have looked at the QBs in the 2021 draft and decided that the only options were Lawrence or Fields (which I said back then right on this board - and I was wrong on Fields... but NOT on ZW), I would have traded the #2 pick to SF for a Haul, run out 2021 with Darnold and a sh*tload of picks, and rebuilt the team properly. 

Joe Douglas and Rex Hogan disagreed. 

Would you like the owner to have jumped in? 

[nyjets1969]

On 2/11/2024 at 11:57 AM, PaulHolmes1962 said:

The Jets do have the longest playoffless drought in NA sports, but only through semantics. The Buffalo Sabres will have matched the Jets futility after this season. Since the last Sabres playoff appearance they have gone through 7 head coaches and have had FOUR top 2 draft picks. They still suck. 

The Sabres are owned by the same guy who owns the Bills. The team that is currently dominating the AFC East. 
 

My theory:

Ownership doesn’t matter and front office doesn’t matter. These GMs don’t go to school for this job. Most of them are just hired through some connection and stick in front offices because they didn’t have a good enough playing career to become a coach. There is no exact science on how to pick these players. It’s a total crap shoot that an AI Generated chimpanzee can easily do just as effectively as the best GM in NFL. You think Joe Schoen knows more about NFL football than Bill Belichick (who supposedly sucks as a Gm?)
 

Success in pro sports is all about the players and coaches. Acquiring the right players is mostly luck and circumstance. 
 

Don’t blame Woody. 

 

Woody could fixed this by bringing in a experienced  guy who has a proven track record of winning. Harbaugh, Sean PAYTON, Bill Cowher, Andy Reid, to name a few yet he chooses rookie coaches and GMs that he can over rule if he wants a guy like Arron  Rogers no do blame him. Woody can fix this he has the money just chooses not too. 

[kevinc855]

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Narrative? Narrative? What I posted here are the record of the Jets in Wins and Losses and point differential since Johnson has been owner.

Please defend those FACTS in a cogent manner, and explain how that that does not implicate Woody directly.

I have....he decentralzed football decisions to Joe Douglas. Chris Johnson hired Joe Douglas. 

Now, im happy you all became JD doubters after years of calling me crazy for doing that.....but Woody doesnt coach the team, doesnt make the schemes and does not make personel moves. He signs checks. 

[Jet_Engine1]

31 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Joe Douglas and Rex Hogan disagreed. 

Would you like the owner to have jumped in? 

Not exactly, I would PREFER that there was a Senior Director of Football Operations with a few decades of NFL FO experience that would have said to his crap scouting Director and GM, "Look guys, this kid didn't PLAY anyone in college, he lacks big game experience as a starter, and the only time he faced adversity he crapped the bed vs ECU. He's small, he's immature, and we aren't making him the face of the franchise or taking him in the first round... and we need to address the O Line before throwing another rookie on the field". 

 

But the Woodster has Hymie Elhai as "President of NYJ Football" instead, who's great contributions to Jets Football are, according to the New York Jets own web page, "Unpredicted growth... including sponsorships, sales and content"... and "Forming the Social Justice, Diversity, and Inclusion Team and the expansion of the Jets Women's Organization".

 

The Jets EVP and COO, Brian Friedman is "Responsible for business operations... revenue generation, fan focused initiatives... and growth opportunities for the team and MetLife Stadium".

 

I'm not kidding.  This is NOT an organizational structure that is serious about winning Football Games, all of their priorities are on the extraneous stuff. 

 

Woody as owner has gone through 7 Head Coaches and 6 GMs in a span of a bit over 20 years. He has had to go outside the organization multiple times, using consultants (Korn-Ferry) and outside former GM's (Casserly, Wolf), and even former players (Peyton - Gase) to make hires... which were ALL bad. After 10+ years of absolute futility, a competent person should realize, "This Model is NOT working... we need to change something organizationally". 

 

Instead, they make the same mistakes over and over again - inexperienced guys in the top jobs, pairing rookie HC's who were Defensive Coordinators with raw Rookie QB's. Not building the core of the team (O-Line!!) before tossing those raw rookies behind a makeshift line, no true draft philosophy, no core cultural identities to build upon. 

 

Thats ALL on ownership.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

OK, so what would you have done these last 5 years? Enlighten us

Did I insult your youtube channel?  I thought all publicity was good publicity?  I am on record here for way more than 5 years. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Did I insult your youtube channel?  I thought all publicity was good publicity?  I am on record here for way more than 5 years. 

Defending the record of the Johnsons, especially since there is greater than a 20 year track record, is pure stupidity. Imagine hitching your wagon to that horse.

[Trotter]

like i stated i tradionally am a defender of Woody - think his heart is in the right place but he is lazy, and just wants to delagate and magically end up with qualified people.

Where I am about to do a 180 today is the fact that at 11pm following the super bowl you rush to tweet out about your uniforms.

Not be pissed off that you did n't make the playoffs again in 15 years but uniforms.
He wants attention - craves it actually and is trusting his kiddie corp that sending out that tweet is a good idea.

Well you got the attention you wanted because the majority of the other 31 are sitting there thinking - and this is why you suck year over year and continually hire the wrong people. 

[#27TheDominator]

31 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Defending the record of the Johnsons, especially since there is greater than a 20 year track record, is pure stupidity. Imagine hitching your wagon to that horse.

I am not even that big on bashing the Johnsons.  I think there are plenty of worse owners that have gotten lucky.  I think that they don't do themselves any favors listening to the fans or the papers (or whatever had taken the place of newspapers) and I think they have royally ****ed up with this don't throw the baby out with the bathwater attitude that forces Rex on Idzik, Williams on Gase, Vitt on Williams, etc.  I don't think that works and it fosters an environment where instead of working together to win, people rat on each other in the hope of outlasting the others who were with them when they came on board.

[Rich Thornburgh]

Woody is the worst owner in all of sports. It’s not even close.

[kevinc855]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not exactly, I would PREFER that there was a Senior Director of Football Operations with a few decades of NFL FO experience that would have said to his crap scouting Director and GM, "Look guys, this kid didn't PLAY anyone in college, he lacks big game experience as a starter, and the only time he faced adversity he crapped the bed vs ECU. He's small, he's immature, and we aren't making him the face of the franchise or taking him in the first round... and we need to address the O Line before throwing another rookie on the field". 

 

But the Woodster has Hymie Elhai as "President of NYJ Football" instead, who's great contributions to Jets Football are, according to the New York Jets own web page, "Unpredicted growth... including sponsorships, sales and content"... and "Forming the Social Justice, Diversity, and Inclusion Team and the expansion of the Jets Women's Organization".

 

The Jets EVP and COO, Brian Friedman is "Responsible for business operations... revenue generation, fan focused initiatives... and growth opportunities for the team and MetLife Stadium".

 

I'm not kidding.  This is NOT an organizational structure that is serious about winning Football Games, all of their priorities are on the extraneous stuff. 

 

Woody as owner has gone through 7 Head Coaches and 6 GMs in a span of a bit over 20 years. He has had to go outside the organization multiple times, using consultants (Korn-Ferry) and outside former GM's (Casserly, Wolf), and even former players (Peyton - Gase) to make hires... which were ALL bad. After 10+ years of absolute futility, a competent person should realize, "This Model is NOT working... we need to change something organizationally". 

 

Instead, they make the same mistakes over and over again - inexperienced guys in the top jobs, pairing rookie HC's who were Defensive Coordinators with raw Rookie QB's. Not building the core of the team (O-Line!!) before tossing those raw rookies behind a makeshift line, no true draft philosophy, no core cultural identities to build upon. 

 

Thats ALL on ownership.

Absurd argument. You want a General Manager to make personnel decisions or a Senior Director to complicate the organizational structure. 

This fantasy idea from the fan base who like to play Deliote consultants of how to fix the Jets always changes. First you thought the reporting structure was off, when that was remedied, it was the wrong GM.

When you all got JD who you ball licked for 2-3 years, NOW its hes the failure and he doesnt have what? A "senior Director" questioning his moves? What an absurd take 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Absurd argument. You want a General Manager to make personnel decisions or a Senior Director to complicate the organizational structure. 

This fantasy idea from the fan base who like to play Deliote consultants of how to fix the Jets always changes. First you thought the reporting structure was off, when that was remedied, it was the wrong GM.

When you all got JD who you ball licked for 2-3 years, NOW its hes the failure and he doesnt have what? A "senior Director" questioning his moves? What an absurd take 

Gee, Kevin, you are so right. It is working perfectly as structured right now. How could we have been so blind?

[kevinc855]

21 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Woody is the worst owner in all of sports. It’s not even close.

Dan Snyder or David Tepper like a word.......

"Its not even close" is a lazy comment from someone not paying attention

[Xtina]

Your (sic) dumb 

[JetPotato]

17 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Dan Snyder or David Tepper like a word.......

"Its not even close" is a lazy comment from someone not paying attention

Speaking of paying attention, what NFL team does Dan Snyder own?

[kevinc855]

19 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Speaking of paying attention, what NFL team does Dan Snyder own?

Are you seriously saying the Commanders have done anything under new ownership? 

Its been like 5 minutes since he has been gone

[Matt39]

Just now, kevinc855 said:

Are you seriously saying the Commanders have done anything under new ownership? 

Its been like 5 minutes since he has been gone

The Commanders feel like an expansion team every season. 

[Scott Dierking]

34 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Are you seriously saying the Commanders have done anything under new ownership? 

Its been like 5 minutes since he has been gone

The Commanders owner already has a history of sport ownership. While not stellar, it is light years better than Woody's. 

[JetPotato]

43 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Are you seriously saying the Commanders have done anything under new ownership? 

Its been like 5 minutes since he has been gone

I've said nothing about them. What were you saying about lazy comments? 

[mfmartin]

So the Steelers, ravens, packers, chiefs and 9ers which are teams year over year competative and on the cusp of playoffs are simply lucky?

Jed York was considered an awful owner for years


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[mfmartin]

Dan Snyder or David Tepper like a word.......
"Its not even close" is a lazy comment from someone not paying attention

Michael Bidwell
Mike Brown
Mark Davis
Spanos Family

All easily worse than Woody.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet_Engine1]

2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Absurd argument. You want a General Manager to make personnel decisions or a Senior Director to complicate the organizational structure. 

This fantasy idea from the fan base who like to play Deliote consultants of how to fix the Jets always changes. First you thought the reporting structure was off, when that was remedied, it was the wrong GM.

When you all got JD who you ball licked for 2-3 years, NOW its hes the failure and he doesnt have what? A "senior Director" questioning his moves? What an absurd take 

I'm sorry you're so busy frothing at the mouth about being punked by JD that you are unable to read, comprehend, or understand... so let me break this down Barney Style for ya, bro...

 

The OWNER is an IDIOT that keeps hiring the wrong people, because he is an idiot that has never run anything in his life aside from a failed real estate Ponzi scheme a few decades ago. He clearly doesn't not understand how to hire the appropriate people (MacCagnan, Gase, JD, Idzik and on and on) and keeps exacerbating the problems ("We can't get enough Tim Tebow"... doubling down on ZW, not investing in insurance on a Mega-Deal for a 39 year old QB's Mega-Contract). Adding someone COMPETENT to steer the ship from the top, instead of a couple of mildly re-treaded Trustafarians without a collective brain in their heads doesn't complicate things, it's called establishing an effective Chain of Command. 

 

I worked for a somewhat small but busy FD, we had a total of around 255 people on the entire department... the Chain of Command was effective because we had 1 Fire Chief, 4 Assistant Chiefs, 3 Division chiefs and 6 Battalion Chiefs. It's called an appropriate "Span of Control", with specialists in each area running the specific functions of the organization. Something the Jets have lacked since Parcells bailed. Woody HIRED JD. Woody is keeping JD. Woody SUPPORTS JD. Woody ALLOWED JD to draft and keep ZW on the roster. There clearly needs to be less day to day involvement from ownership, with someone who knows WHAT THE **** THEY ARE DOING overseeing the Day to Day AND "Big Picture" Football operations. 

 

Good Day.

 

 

[mfmartin]

I'm sorry you're so busy frothing at the mouth about being punked by JD that you are unable to read, comprehend, or understand... so let me break this down Barney Style for ya, bro...
 
The OWNER is an IDIOT that keeps hiring the wrong people, because he is an idiot that has never run anything in his life aside from a failed real estate Ponzi scheme a few decades ago. He clearly doesn't not understand how to hire the appropriate people (MacCagnan, Gase, JD, Idzik and on and on) and keeps exacerbating the problems ("We can't get enough Tim Tebow"... doubling down on ZW, not investing in insurance on a Mega-Deal for a 39 year old QB's Mega-Contract). Adding someone COMPETENT to steer the ship from the top, instead of a couple of mildly re-treaded Trustafarians without a collective brain in their heads doesn't complicate things, it's called establishing an effective Chain of Command. 
 
I worked for a somewhat small but busy FD, we had a total of around 255 people on the entire department... the Chain of Command was effective because we had 1 Fire Chief, 4 Assistant Chiefs, 3 Division chiefs and 6 Battalion Chiefs. It's called an appropriate "Span of Control", with specialists in each area running the specific functions of the organization. Something the Jets have lacked since Parcells bailed. Woody HIRED JD. Woody is keeping JD. Woody SUPPORTS JD. Woody ALLOWED JD to draft and keep ZW on the roster. There clearly needs to be less day to day involvement from ownership, with someone who knows WHAT THE **** THEY ARE DOING overseeing the Day to Day AND "Big Picture" Football operations. 
 
Good Day.
 
 

Friendly reminder that they weren’t moving on from Zach with his enormous dead cap hit.

[Matt39]

27 minutes ago, mfmartin said:

 

Friendly reminder that they weren’t moving on from Zach with his enormous dead cap hit.

 

That’s the owners decision. Zach on the roster vs off only impacts Woodys pockets. 

[kevinc855]

3 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I'm sorry you're so busy frothing at the mouth about being punked by JD that you are unable to read, comprehend, or understand... so let me break this down Barney Style for ya, bro...

 

The OWNER is an IDIOT that keeps hiring the wrong people, because he is an idiot that has never run anything in his life aside from a failed real estate Ponzi scheme a few decades ago. He clearly doesn't not understand how to hire the appropriate people (MacCagnan, Gase, JD, Idzik and on and on) and keeps exacerbating the problems ("We can't get enough Tim Tebow"... doubling down on ZW, not investing in insurance on a Mega-Deal for a 39 year old QB's Mega-Contract). Adding someone COMPETENT to steer the ship from the top, instead of a couple of mildly re-treaded Trustafarians without a collective brain in their heads doesn't complicate things, it's called establishing an effective Chain of Command. 

 

I worked for a somewhat small but busy FD, we had a total of around 255 people on the entire department... the Chain of Command was effective because we had 1 Fire Chief, 4 Assistant Chiefs, 3 Division chiefs and 6 Battalion Chiefs. It's called an appropriate "Span of Control", with specialists in each area running the specific functions of the organization. Something the Jets have lacked since Parcells bailed. Woody HIRED JD. Woody is keeping JD. Woody SUPPORTS JD. Woody ALLOWED JD to draft and keep ZW on the roster. There clearly needs to be less day to day involvement from ownership, with someone who knows WHAT THE **** THEY ARE DOING overseeing the Day to Day AND "Big Picture" Football operations. 

 

Good Day.

 

 

No surprise you are a firefighter. You sound like the usual beer burping Impatient guy with a  god complex who thinks everyone should “thank him for his service” at every moment. Listen up….

The Jets do have people to run certain departments like any other business or organization. One Quick Look at the website will show you that. They list their VPs on the website. Put the bud light down chief and look. Second woody did not hire JD, he was in the UK at the time and was not in any interviews. Three, you point out you want a GM, but also unnecessary folks to do that job. None of your take makes sense…

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

No surprise you are a firefighter. You sound like the usual beer burping Inpatient guy with a  god complex who thinks everyone should “thank him for his service” at every moment. Listen up….

The Jets do have people to run certain departments like any other business or organization. One Quick Look at the website will show you that. They list their VPs on the website. Put the bud light down chief and look. Second woody did not hire JD, he was in the UK at the time and was not in any interviews. Three, you point out you want a GM, but also unnecessary folks to do that job. None of your take makes sense…

Are you surprised that people threaten you?

[Matt39]

I honestly can’t imagine pretending to believe that Woody wasn’t involved in hiring Douglas or Saleh. This is stupid. 

[PaulHolmes1962]

7 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Not exactly, I would PREFER that there was a Senior Director of Football Operations with a few decades of NFL FO experience that would have said to his crap scouting Director and GM, "Look guys, this kid didn't PLAY anyone in college, he lacks big game experience as a starter, and the only time he faced adversity he crapped the bed vs ECU. He's small, he's immature, and we aren't making him the face of the franchise or taking him in the first round... and we need to address the O Line before throwing another rookie on the field". 

 

But the Woodster has Hymie Elhai as "President of NYJ Football" instead, who's great contributions to Jets Football are, according to the New York Jets own web page, "Unpredicted growth... including sponsorships, sales and content"... and "Forming the Social Justice, Diversity, and Inclusion Team and the expansion of the Jets Women's Organization".

 

The Jets EVP and COO, Brian Friedman is "Responsible for business operations... revenue generation, fan focused initiatives... and growth opportunities for the team and MetLife Stadium".

 

I'm not kidding.  This is NOT an organizational structure that is serious about winning Football Games, all of their priorities are on the extraneous stuff. 

 

Woody as owner has gone through 7 Head Coaches and 6 GMs in a span of a bit over 20 years. He has had to go outside the organization multiple times, using consultants (Korn-Ferry) and outside former GM's (Casserly, Wolf), and even former players (Peyton - Gase) to make hires... which were ALL bad. After 10+ years of absolute futility, a competent person should realize, "This Model is NOT working... we need to change something organizationally". 

 

Instead, they make the same mistakes over and over again - inexperienced guys in the top jobs, pairing rookie HC's who were Defensive Coordinators with raw Rookie QB's. Not building the core of the team (O-Line!!) before tossing those raw rookies behind a makeshift line, no true draft philosophy, no core cultural identities to build upon. 

 

Thats ALL on ownership.

And the Texans owner (who really is bad) hired the 49ers DC and paired him with a rookie 2nd overall pick. How did that work out?

It’s not Woodys fault that the consensus 2nd overall pick QB was a complete zero who couldn’t play. The Jets weren’t on an island with Zach. A lot of people got it wrong.