ZACH WILSON isn’t on the Jets anymore discussion (merged)

[Rangers9]

I still think Zach's current value is his arm and athletic talent which gives him the ability to make plays short term in a game if he's brought in due to injury etc. Denver reporters have acknowledged he has the strongest arm of the 3 QBs in camp. He has not shown to this point in his career the consistency to effectively run an offense. So he could make the team and even get into games and potentially make a contribution but I don't see him starting unless he's really improved. 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I still think Zach's current value is his arm and athletic talent which gives him the ability to make plays short term in a game if he's brought in due to injury etc. Denver reporters have acknowledged he has the strongest arm of the 3 QBs in camp. He has not shown to this point in his career the consistency to effectively run an offense. So he could make the team and even get into games and potentially make a contribution but I don't see him starting unless he's really improved. 

You can’t improve on the things that Zach Wilson lacks. If he’s not impressing in non-contact reps, he’s not going to do it when the pads are on. The kid is going to move to Cali and take up surfing with Leinart as soon as this summer

[The Crusher]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You can’t improve on the things that Zach Wilson lacks. If he’s not impressing in non-contact reps, he’s not going to do it when the pads are on. The kid is going to move to Cali and take up surfing with Leinart as soon as this summer

Certainly worse things..

 

 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Certainly worse things..

 

 

I was so, so sad when we passed on him

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I was so, so sad when we passed on him

-SARI 

He was  devastated. Leinart got out to a hot start his first game against the Bears and then Urlacher crushed him and the rest we already know. 

[GreenFish]

On 6/18/2024 at 5:42 AM, Dunnie said:

Exactly ... I just want see if he stinks ... 

IF???

He’s not an NFL starting QB. He stinks at this level.

[Rangers9]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You can’t improve on the things that Zach Wilson lacks. If he’s not impressing in non-contact reps, he’s not going to do it when the pads are on. The kid is going to move to Cali and take up surfing with Leinart as soon as this summer

Denver has a 2.75 mil investment in Zach for 2024. So that should be good enough to earn him a spot on the roster at least as a number 3. But Payton won't use him if he thinks the guy can't play at all. He was willing to let go of Russell Wilson and pay his huge salary just to get rid of him so they won't keep Zach if he truly sucks and the other guys are much better. But they need a 3 anyways. IMO Zach has the talent to be able to fit a role on the field for Denver just not as starter. He can go into a game and make long throws. As for him never getting better. I can only think of one person who fits that category and it's not in sports. 

[bicketybam]

15 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Denver has a 2.75 mil investment in Zach for 2024. So that should be good enough to earn him a spot on the roster at least as a number 3. But Payton won't use him if he thinks the guy can't play at all. He was willing to let go of Russell Wilson and pay his huge salary just to get rid of him so they won't keep Zach if he truly sucks and the other guys are much better. But they need a 3 anyways. IMO Zach has the talent to be able to fit a role on the field for Denver just not as starter. He can go into a game and make long throws. As for him never getting better. I can only think of one person who fits that category and it's not in sports. 

I can count the number of long throws Zach has made on one hand.

[Bobby816]

No one out here talking about how good of a season Darnold might have. Good OL, NFLs best WR, top 5 TE, a really good #2 WR. Aaron Jones at RB with a good FB.

 

He’s set up to succeed. And easy to fight that he’s still very young. He just turned 27 a couple weeks ago. Yes MIN drafted JJ… but Darnold will start and if he’s playing good. Won’t get benched.

[Matt39]

26 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Denver has a 2.75 mil investment in Zach for 2024. So that should be good enough to earn him a spot on the roster at least as a number 3. But Payton won't use him if he thinks the guy can't play at all. He was willing to let go of Russell Wilson and pay his huge salary just to get rid of him so they won't keep Zach if he truly sucks and the other guys are much better. But they need a 3 anyways. IMO Zach has the talent to be able to fit a role on the field for Denver just not as starter. He can go into a game and make long throws. As for him never getting better. I can only think of one person who fits that category and it's not in sports. 

I have yet to see this arm strength or these long throws in an actual game 

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Denver has a 2.75 mil investment in Zach for 2024. So that should be good enough to earn him a spot on the roster at least as a number 3. But Payton won't use him if he thinks the guy can't play at all. He was willing to let go of Russell Wilson and pay his huge salary just to get rid of him so they won't keep Zach if he truly sucks and the other guys are much better. But they need a 3 anyways. IMO Zach has the talent to be able to fit a role on the field for Denver just not as starter. He can go into a game and make long throws. As for him never getting better. I can only think of one person who fits that category and it's not in sports. 

Agree that Zach has some of the pieces you look for in a QB, but they’re mostly inaccessible to him because he’s afraid of contact. Long throws involve hanging in the pocket, running the ball involves being tackled. This is why it’s concerning that he’s not performing well at this point in camp where he’s throwing against air. It only gets worse when he’s facing a pass rush. His PFF splits are interesting that way—when not pressured, he’s a pretty decent QB statistically, but when pressured he falls to the bottom of the league in almost every category. 

[Rangers9]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agree that Zach has some of the pieces you look for in a QB, but they’re mostly inaccessible to him because he’s afraid of contact. Long throws involve hanging in the pocket, running the ball involves being tackled. This is why it’s concerning that he’s not performing well at this point in camp where he’s throwing against air. It only gets worse when he’s facing a pass rush. His PFF splits are interesting that way—when not pressured, he’s a pretty decent QB statistically, but when pressured he falls to the bottom of the league in almost every category. 

I never saw this fear factor you're talking about here. His teammates would have said it never heard that from them. I saw him run into the line and try to get extra yards running the ball often. He did run backwards foolishly not imo because he was afraid of contact but trying to instead make a play. It was a big flaw in his game. It can be fixed. Being able to consistently run an offense not sure about but his career is not a done deal yet. We've seen other players in all sports get better esp if they have the talent and he does. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

No one out here talking about how good of a season Darnold might have. Good OL, NFLs best WR, top 5 TE, a really good #2 WR. Aaron Jones at RB with a good FB.

 

He’s set up to succeed. And easy to fight that he’s still very young. He just turned 27 a couple weeks ago. Yes MIN drafted JJ… but Darnold will start and if he’s playing good. Won’t get benched.

Yeah but if Zach completes a pass in a regular season game with the broncos his stans will go nuts

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I have yet to see this arm strength or these long throws in an actual game 

So what if Zach can throw?  Jamarcus Russell could throw 75 yard bombs literally with one armed tied behind his back 

 

Wilson can’t read defenses, is mentally very weak, he’s extremely indecisive and when he does make a decision it’s either a turnover or incomplete.  He’s also very inaccurate he had a hard time with 2 yard screen passes and routine 5-10 yard throws up the middle to guys wide open

[bicketybam]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

No one out here talking about how good of a season Darnold might have. Good OL, NFLs best WR, top 5 TE, a really good #2 WR. Aaron Jones at RB with a good FB.

 

He’s set up to succeed. And easy to fight that he’s still very young. He just turned 27 a couple weeks ago. Yes MIN drafted JJ… but Darnold will start and if he’s playing good. Won’t get benched.

I used to think Darnold was the worst QB I'd ever seen. Then Zach Wilson happened. If I only had known.

[Rangers9]

Look if Zach doesn't make it no sweat off my brow. It's on him. But I'm not rooting against him. My kids bought me a ZW jersey after he was drafted but I asked them to return it and instead get me a battery opted lawn mower. Not because I hated Zach but just not into jerseys anymore. It's not all his fault that he was ineffective here but mostly his fault. 

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I still think Zach's current value is his arm and athletic talent which gives him the ability to make plays short term in a game if he's brought in due to injury etc. Denver reporters have acknowledged he has the strongest arm of the 3 QBs in camp. He has not shown to this point in his career the consistency to effectively run an offense. So he could make the team and even get into games and potentially make a contribution but I don't see him starting unless he's really improved. 

Teams don’t carry 3 QBs on their active roster any more.  He’s getting practice squad’ed or cut.

[Joe W. Namath]

7 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Certainly worse things..

 

 

These chicks are mid at best.  Zach pulls much better tail than this.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I never saw this fear factor you're talking about here. His teammates would have said it never heard that from them. I saw him run into the line and try to get extra yards running the ball often. He did run backwards foolishly not imo because he was afraid of contact but trying to instead make a play. It was a big flaw in his game. It can be fixed. Being able to consistently run an offense not sure about but his career is not a done deal yet. We've seen other players in all sports get better esp if they have the talent and he does. 

Spinning around and/or leaving the pocket at the first sign of trouble wasn’t evidence enough for you?  FFS.

Regardless of whether your clearly very objective eyes saw it or not, as Shane pointed out, the data doesn’t lie.  We have 3 years of starts showing he’s by far the worst QB in the league vs a pass rush.

[bicketybam]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Teams don’t carry 3 QBs on their active roster any more.  He’s getting practice squad’ed or cut.

I'm not sure if they can practice squad him due to his contract. But I don't see him being on their roster. He's just an NFL quality QB, and that's being nice.

[Jetsfan80]

Folks who predicted a Zach ascension after the trade to Denver now trying to justify ways that can still happen for him as a QB3 is WILD.  

[TuscanyTile2]

13 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You can’t improve on the things that Zach Wilson lacks. If he’s not impressing in non-contact reps, he’s not going to do it when the pads are on. The kid is going to move to Cali and take up surfing with Leinart as soon as this summer

Weren't people saying the same thing about Geno Smith at one time?  How about Vinny?  Steve Young?

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Folks who predicted a Zach ascension after the trade to Denver now trying to justify ways that can still happen for him as a QB3 is WILD.  

How many teams was Geno Smith on before he figured it out?  

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Weren't people saying the same thing about Geno Smith at one time?  How about Vinny?  Steve Young?

Geno Smith took 9.5 years to become an average NFL starter on his 4th team.  That’s your posterboy?

Now do the dozens upon dozens of highly drafted QBs who sucked at their first stop and went on to suck elsewhere.

QB guru Sean Payton sees Zach as a QB3 in a sh*tty QB room.  Need McVay and Andy Reid to confirm it before you’ll believe it?

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

How many teams was Geno Smith on before he figured it out?  

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Folks who predicted a Zach ascension after the trade to Denver now trying to justify ways that can still happen for him as a QB3 is WILD.  

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Geno Smith took 9.5 years to become an average NFL starter on his 4th team.  

Now do the dozens upon dozens of highly drafted QBs who sucked at their first stop and went on to suck elsewhere.

QB guru Sean Payton sees Zach as a QB3 in a sh*tty QB room.  Need McVay and Andy Reid to confirm it before you’ll believe it?

You just made the case for those who think it can happen.  Whether it does or not is another story.  Obviously, I'm far more bullish on Zach's chances than you (and almost everyone on this site) are.  Maybe I'll be wrong (it certainly wouldn't be the first time) but we'll see what happens.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Agree that Zach has some of the pieces you look for in a QB, but they’re mostly inaccessible to him because he’s afraid of contact. Long throws involve hanging in the pocket, running the ball involves being tackled. This is why it’s concerning that he’s not performing well at this point in camp where he’s throwing against air. It only gets worse when he’s facing a pass rush. His PFF splits are interesting that way—when not pressured, he’s a pretty decent QB statistically, but when pressured he falls to the bottom of the league in almost every category. 

I wonder why that might be.

 

[Jetsfan80]

33 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You just made the case for those who think it can happen.  Whether it does or not is another story.  Obviously, I'm far more bullish on Zach's chances than you (and almost everyone on this site) are.  Maybe I'll be wrong (it certainly wouldn't be the first time) but we'll see what happens.

Dude, can you really not see how waiting a decade for a QB to maybe become an average NFL starter with his 4th team is NOT an argument in your favor?  You'd have to wait until the 2030s to bump this thread my guy.  You really think that would be a win for you?

What's really about to happen:  He'll be out of the league no later than his 28th birthday and you'll try to pretend the Zach era never happened.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Dude, can you really not see how waiting a decade for a QB to maybe become an average NFL starter with his 4th team is NOT an argument in your favor?  You'd have to wait until the 2030s to bump this thread my guy.  You really think that would be a win for you?

What's really about to happen:  He'll be out of the league no later than his 28th birthday and you'll try to pretend the Zach era never happened.

I'm not making the case that the Jets should've kept him.  I fully understand it wouldn't have made sense due to salary and roster considerations (and AR8!), plus the time they'd have to invest to find out if he could even reach his potential.  I'm still just interested to see what he'd look like on a better team with a better CS.  I think he (like Sam) was dealt a terrible hand here.  I saw improvement in year 3 (even though probably most didn't) which I was encouraged by.  I think if he had a better situation around him this past year, he might've won more people over.  Whatever though.  It's been discussed plenty already.

[bicketybam]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What's really about to happen:  He'll be out of the league no later than his 28th birthday and you'll try to pretend the Zach era never happened.

Let's be real. We'll all pretend the Zach era never happened 😅

[T0mShane]

37 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I wonder why that might be.

 

That’s what happens when you hold the ball forever, don’t pose a rushing threat, and your linemen have no idea where you’re going to set up on any given play. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

That’s what happens when you hold the ball forever, don’t pose a rushing threat, and your linemen have no idea where you’re going to set up on any given play. 

 

 

Quote

That’s what happens when you hold the ball forever

Our OL never gave ZW any time. 

Quote

don’t pose a rushing threat

Zach doesn't pose a rushing threat?

Quote

and your linemen have no idea where you’re going to set up on any given play. 

Because our OL stunk?

 

Reminder that JD completely rebuilt our OL this offseason (with FA's and the 11th overall pick in the draft), despite knowing ZW would be gone this year.

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

 

Our OL never gave ZW any time. 

Zach doesn't pose a rushing threat?

Because our OL stunk?

 

Reminder that JD completely rebuilt our OL this offseason (with FA's and the 11th overall pick in the draft), despite knowing ZW would be gone this year.

You’ve got two issues there. One the one hand, you have an OL that isn’t good. On the other hand, you have a QB that’s holding the ball so long that he’s in tier populated by guys like Justin Fields and Lamar, whose time to throw numbers are exacerbated by their many rushing attempts. In the last three games of the year, after Zach’s “concussion,” Siemian was sacked zero times vs the Commanders, twice against the freaky Browns pass rush, and once against the Pats. Zach’s sack rate was over 10%. 

[Asymmetrical]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You’ve got two issues there. One the one hand, you have an OL that isn’t good. On the other hand, you have a QB that’s holding the ball so long that he’s in tier populated by guys like Justin Fields and Lamar, whose time to throw numbers are exacerbated by their many rushing attempts. In the last three games of the year, after Zach’s “concussion,” Siemian was sacked zero times vs the Commanders, twice against the freaky Browns pass rush, and once against the Pats. Zach’s sack rate was over 10%. 

if there wasn't a wide open, predetermined throw to make, you could see his brain fry in real time. How the BYU resume of ambling around acre wide pockets and chucking jump balls to Bryxtyn Myllyr got him drafted at 2 is an enduring mystery. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

Bryxtyn Myllyr

Lol. Bryxtyn was also 26, married, had three kids, and ran a 4.42 despite showing signs of advanced male pattern baldness.