New York Jets, Haason Reddick Contract Saga No Longer About Fines. Game checks are now on the line, to the tune of $852,941 for each game missed.

[batman10023]

4 minutes ago, Vader said:

What was the record of the loser in the AFCCG last year? What was the record of the loser of the Super Bowl? What you are talking about is irrelevant. It's about the big boy games at this point. Woody is going for a Super Bowl. Not 4-1.

They don’t pay reddick and now they have 15mm to play at the trade deadline.  
 

that helps the Super Bowl run. 
 

[batman10023]

4 minutes ago, Vader said:

there's a superbowl window now. in two years it's gone. from Reddick's agent's POV the question is do you want Hassan Reddick on this one year window Super Bowl run or not. Again I am not picking a side or saying it's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that this is the way to see Reddick's position as rational from a decision making science standpoint

His agent has screwed him his last two contracts.    The agents decision making process is bad for him. 

[batman10023]

3 minutes ago, Vader said:

who said Hassan Reddick wants a win-win situation? he wants Sauce Gardner's money.

And he’s foolish to think he’s getting it. 

[Vader]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No.

If Woody Johnson actually felt this was his only serious shot at a Super Bowl, and was willing to sacrifice future seasons for it, then he’d have instructed his GM back in March to trade the team’s next couple first and second round draft picks for veteran starters this season. He’d have ordered him to extend Riddick back before the draft.

Failing to trade the next 2-3 seasons’ worth of day 1 and day 2 picks = not maximizing on this season.

It’s not happening. There is only evidence of the polar opposite thus far: they’re not taking on high-end contracts with guys in their 30s past this season because Woody may be cleaning house after the season.It’s decidedly unlikely Woody’s going to pressure Douglas to give Riddick a multi year extension at $25MM.

Riddick has played this terribly. His decision to hold out instead of hold in was pure foolishness, and in doing so he made an any potential negotiations twice as difficult by racking up several million in mandatory fines. His leverage is almost nonexistent where they stand right now. Nobody was willing to offer him what he thinks he’s worth; his demands are wholly unrealistic. Pretty much everyone among the Jets’ FO, coaching staff, and the fan base prefers he was with the team BUT no serious person believes a 3rd rounder - two seasons into the future - is nearly enough to pressure a football team into a long term contract he couldn’t get from anyone else.

Lmao that Reddick has been working game theory angles. Video game theory maybe, since that’s the only football he’s played thus far this season. 

So you are suggesting with multi million dollar contracts on the line professional negotiators that represent multi-billion dollar organizations and multi-million dollar contracts for celebrities and athletes don't run simulations or understand that they are operating under game theoretic conditions? 

The Jets FO, coaching staff and fans are irrelevant. At this point in time the Jets and Reddick reps are locked in a game theoretic scenario and they are pursuing different agendas.

This year is the best shot the Jets will ever have in Woody's tenure going into a season at the Superbowl. It's not complicated. They may feel Woody will fold at some point. 

[Vader]

3 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

And he’s foolish to think he’s getting it. 

What does this mean? A win-win happens when both sides get what they want or there is a compromise or the myth of the fixed pie is overcome. If the Jets give Reddick the contract he wants the Jets have lost bc they will probably not be able to afford a scone contract they want to give. This is what Reddick ideally wants. The Jets want their cake and eat it. It's a zero-sum game at this point. 

[Vader]

6 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

His agent has screwed him his last two contracts.    The agents decision making process is bad for him. 

Maybe. But you are speaking as a fan. Not Team Reddick, who wants to leverage his DPOY, back to back Pro Bowls, nearly 30 sacks in 3 years and elite post season performance. That's him being rational. We'll see how far this lasts.

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, batman10023 said:

And he’s foolish to think he’s getting it. 

It’s ridiculous. He supposedly turned down an extension from the Eagles at $22MM per, and all other teams, upon finding out what he felt he was worth above that, collectively said lmfao, seeing how an insignificant draft pick was the cost for his contract rights.

He’s a terrific player, and I’d like him with the team right now, but not at any cost, and the reality of the situation is that he's been outright delusional.

If he thinks he’s getting a multi year deal from the Jets at $25MM per, starting with a partly-missed first season after the team let this drag on for 6 months, as they are about to enter contract situations with its young star players, then I’m sorry he’s got no brains.

[Vader]

12 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

They don’t pay reddick and now they have 15mm to play at the trade deadline.  
 

that helps the Super Bowl run. 
 

the point is -- and as Jets fans we don't really get this much -- it's not about winning records. It';s about being so elite that you can compete AND WIN against Kansas City. 

Full Stop. Everyone that KC played, lost. The point is then not to lose. And how is that done? With elite players. The record of AFCCG loser and the Super bowl loser were both really really good.... An awesome record and appearance in these games is not enough.

[Vader]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It’s ridiculous. He supposedly turned down an extension from the Eagles at $22MM, and all other teams, upon finding out what he felt he was worth, collectively said lmfao, seeing how an insignificant draft pick was the cost for his contract rights.

He’s a terrific player, and I’d like him with the team right now, but not at any cost, and the reality of the situation is that been outright delusional.

If he thinks he’s getting a multi year deal from the Jets at $25MM per, starting with a partly-missed first season after the team let this drag on for 6 months, as they are about to enter contract situations with its young star players, then I’m sorry he’s got no brains.

Does Woody Johnson have a reputation as someone that is obsessed with media coverage, what people think of him, or is he a shrewd take-no-prisoners kind titan? does he have a reputation of getting played or nah? 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Vader said:

So you are suggesting with multi million dollar contracts on the line professional negotiators that represent multi-billion dollar organizations and multi-million dollar contracts for celebrities and athletes don't run simulations or understand that they are operating under game theoretic conditions? 

The Jets FO, coaching staff and fans are irrelevant. At this point in time the Jets and Reddick reps are locked in a game theoretic scenario and they are pursuing different agendas.

This year is the best shot the Jets will ever have in Woody's tenure going into a season at the Superbowl. It's not complicated. They may feel Woody will fold at some point. 

Yeah I’m comfortable suggesting that. If you think these are chess players, just because the money stakes are high, you’re free to think so.

[Sperm Edwards]

50 minutes ago, Vader said:

Does Woody Johnson have a reputation as someone that is obsessed with media coverage, what people think of him, or is he a shrewd take-no-prisoners kind titan? does he have a reputation of getting played or nah? 

Haason Reddick ≠ Aaron Rodgers

A team can compete and do without a 5th first rounder on the DL. It can’t do so without a QB. 

Reputation aside, if he was going to step in and force his GM’s hand to extend Reddick with multiple guaranteed seasons at $25MM+ he’d have done it by now.

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, Vader said:

So you are suggesting with multi million dollar contracts on the line professional negotiators that represent multi-billion dollar organizations and multi-million dollar contracts for celebrities and athletes don't run simulations or understand that they are operating under game theoretic conditions? 

The Jets FO, coaching staff and fans are irrelevant. At this point in time the Jets and Reddick reps are locked in a game theoretic scenario and they are pursuing different agendas.

This year is the best shot the Jets will ever have in Woody's tenure going into a season at the Superbowl. It's not complicated. They may feel Woody will fold at some point. 

So far....

You mean so far it's the best shot...last year was the best shot and other years was the best shot etc..

This is why you need a good gm like Joe to give you these shots...to chance to win consistently.

Also why you don't sweat missed draft picks or players like HR who are making stupid moves. 

Joe and Jets just need to act like they been there before and keep the process right.

Which by the way he does. It's beautiful really 

[The Voice of Reason]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Haason Reddick ≠ Aaron Rodgers

A team can compete and do without a 5th first rounder on the DL. It can’t do so without a QB. 

Reputation aside, if he was going to step in and force his GM’s hand to extend Reddick with multiple guaranteed seasons at $25MM+ he’d have done it by now.

Exactly this... Now he is just an a$$hole hoping for a catastrophe...

Know when to fold a losing hand is true game theory... Holding out for a runner runner is just giving away money

[BornJetsFan1983]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I’m comfortable suggesting that. If you think these are chess players, just because the money stakes are high, you’re free to think so.

I bet Reddick thinks he and his team are playing chess. He thinks he is castling while our def hits Purdue tomorrow night. 

He in fact is not even in the game... literally 

[BornJetsFan1983]

7 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Exactly this... Now he is just an a$$hole hoping for a catastrophe...

Know when to fold a losing hand is true game theory... Holding out for a runner runner is just giving away money

Not if it is a free roll....

Which this obviously is not ..he lost about what 5 Million.. I can't ever imagine being ok with that

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Exactly this... Now he is just an a$$hole hoping for a catastrophe...

Know when to fold a losing hand is true game theory... Holding out for a runner runner is just giving away money

Whatever, he can do what he wants. I get that he wants to get paid more; I get that he thinks he’s underpaid; I get that he wants guaranteed money past this season; I get that he’s more loyal to himself and his family than he is to a team of players he doesn’t know. Most of all I get that he thinks he has leverage he doesn’t have because the inescapable truth is the team wants him but doesn’t need him, and they likely think they need him less than when training camp began.

I don’t know that he’s necessarily rooting for an injury, though a key DE injury would surely help his negotiating position. He could also just be hoping the team narrowly loses a couple early games - even in the absence of DE injuries - where fans/media would be nonstop harping on the idea that in such close circumstances a star edge rusher like Reddick could have been the difference between losses and wins.

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Whatever, he can do what he wants. I get that he wants to get paid more; I get that he thinks he’s underpaid; I get that he wants guaranteed money past this season; I get that he’s more loyal to himself and his family than he is to a team of players he doesn’t know. Most of all I get that he thinks he has leverage he doesn’t have because the inescapable truth is the team wants him but doesn’t need him, and they likely think they need him less than when training camp began.

I don’t know that he’s necessarily rooting for an injury, though a key DE injury would surely help his negotiating position. He could also just be hoping the team narrowly loses a couple early games - even in the absence of DE injuries - where fans/media would be nonstop harping on the idea that in such close circumstances a star edge rusher like Reddick could have been the difference between losses and wins.

Well Chris jones sid this last year with KC and it worked out great for him, the team sorely missed him and lost but it's a different situation all together. KC knew what they were missing and were basically 0 pass rush with out him. Reddick never played a snap and we think we have god damn undrafted guys that can pass rush.

Just stupid on his part 

[Vader]

24 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

So far....

You mean so far it's the best shot...last year was the best shot and other years was the best shot etc..

This is why you need a good gm like Joe to give you these shots...to chance to win consistently.

Also why you don't sweat missed draft picks or players like HR who are making stupid moves. 

Joe and Jets just need to act like they been there before and keep the process right.

Which by the way he does. It's beautiful really 

there was no shot last year due to the OL... The Jets haven't even made the playoffs in... how long? These opportunities don't come around like ... ever. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Well Chris jones sid this last year with KC and it worked out great for him, the team sorely missed him and lost but it's a different situation all together. KC knew what they were missing and were basically 0 pass rush with out him. Reddick never played a snap and we think we have god damn undrafted guys that can pass rush.

Just stupid on his part 

Chris Jones is the Mahomes of KC’s defense in that he and his production are irreplaceable. They needed him.

Reddick hasn’t played a down for the Jets and, while he would be a VERY welcome addition, he’s a want more than a need. 

[Dunnie]

100% agree but I don't blame him for playing big boy poker with Woody Johnson  

It's not poker when your opponent knows what cards you're holding ... Reddick is a fish.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Vader]

29 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Haason Reddick ≠ Aaron Rodgers

A team can compete and do without a 5th first rounder on the DL. It can’t do so without a QB. 

Reputation aside, if he was going to step in and force his GM’s hand to extend Reddick with multiple guaranteed seasons at $25MM+ he’d have done it by now.

You didn't answer the question. And Aaron Rodgers is not relevant to my point. Woody Johnson's reputation can't just be set aside in a high-stakes negotiation where he will have final say on terms.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, Vader said:

You didn't answer the question. And Aaron Rodgers is not relevant to my point. Woody Johnson's reputation can't just be set aside in a high-stakes negotiation where he will have final say on terms.

What is the question? Whether Woody Johnson has his nose glued to the back page of the Post/News?

I don’t see how that’s in any way indicative that he’ll cave in a battle of wills with a single player nobody in the FO (on this team or any other) is worth the money he’s demanding. 

If you think he has a reputation of caving to player demands after long standstills, and then saw that doing so greatly (or at all) benefitted the team, have at it.

The last time he and/or his GM caved to players holding strong was nearly a decade ago, foolishly caving to both Wilkerson & Fitzpatrick in the summer of 2016. The more recent time, he didn’t cave and his GM traded the player (Adams) and it worked out.

If Woody was so 2024 or bust, where the next 2-3 seasons aren’t important in comparison, he’d have commanded his GM to trade away the next 2-3 years’ worth of day 1 and day 2 picks and outbid every team for every available FA. None of that happened. They were relatively quiet when FA began, the biggest names they signed as FAs are on incentive-heavy deals, and saw their top two FA choices for LG go to other teams over money. 

Just because you see this as a “this year or nothing” situation doesn’t mean everyone thinks so, too. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

12 minutes ago, Vader said:

there was no shot last year due to the OL... The Jets haven't even made the playoffs in... how long? These opportunities don't come around like ... ever. 

I guess you could argue that but I think plenty of o lines are bad, game plan and QB play and our play calling was really the issue. Hack did a terrible job last year that was the main culprit. But the line did suck too, fair.

We are not used to chances to win every year sure, but well run teams have shots all the time. That what Joe gives us. 

[Vader]

56 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I’m comfortable suggesting that. If you think these are chess players, just because the money stakes are high, you’re free to think so.

Look up Tory Dandy's clients, the deals he has negotiated, and then look up his mentor's (Eugene Parker) clients and the deals. To suggest that Tory Dandy doesn't know what he's doing or that what he is doing is not sticking to the plan Haasan Reddick wants is absurd. He's a world class agent. 

[Vader]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What is the question? Whether Woody Johnson has his nose glued to the back page of the Post/News?

I don’t see how that’s in any way indicative that he’ll cave in a battle of wills with a single player nobody in the FO (on this team or any other) is worth the money he’s demanding. 

If you think he has a reputation of caving to player demands after long standstills, and then saw that doing so greatly (or at all) benefitted the team, have at it.

The last time he and/or his GM caved to players holding strong was nearly a decade ago, foolishly caving to both Wilkerson & Fitzpatrick in the summer of 2016. The more recent time, he didn’t cave and his GM traded the players (Adams) and it worked out.

If Woody was so 2024 or bust, where the next 2-3 seasons aren’t important in comparison, he’d have commanded his GM to trade away the next 2-3 years’ worth of day 1 and day 2 picks and outbid every team for every available FA. None of that happened. They were relatively quiet when FA began, the biggest names they signed as FAs are on incentive-heavy deals, and saw their top two FA choices for LG go to other teams over money. 

Just because you see this as a “this year or nothing” situation doesn’t mean everyone thinks so, too. 

Does Woody Johnson have a reputation and if so what is it? Is it consistent with what I stated or no? the rest is commentary.

[Vader]

10 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I guess you could argue that but I think plenty of o lines are bad, game plan and QB play and our play calling was really the issue. Hack did a terrible job last year that was the main culprit. But the line did suck too, fair.

We are not used to chances to win every year sure, but well run teams have shots all the time. That what Joe gives us. 

Joe hasn't given anything. We haven't made the playoffs in a decade. Rodgers was supposed to fix that. The OL was so bungled that THAT also had to be fixed in the offseason. THIS year is the year that's circled (if you want to call it a do over from last year idc). 

It's a one year window to win the superbowl right now, because you don't know what the future brings, who you can re-sign, etc. This year isn't supposed to be the same product as decades past. This year we are supposed to have the legitimate chance to win the superbowl. 

[Vader]

31 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

It's not poker when your opponent knows what cards you're holding ... Reddick is a fish.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

what

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Vader said:

Look up Tory Dandy's clients, the deals he has negotiated, and then look up his mentor's (Eugene Parker) clients and the deals. To suggest that Tory Dandy doesn't know what he's doing or that what he is doing is not sticking to the plan Haasan Reddick wants is absurd. He's a world class agent. 

Therefore he approaches every negotiation in the manner you believe he should in theory, and Johnson/Douglas also will respond in the manner you believe they should in theory (based on your theory)?

The other massive assumption you’re making is that everything Reddick has done thus far has been in alignment with his agent’s recommendations. That may or may not be the case. 

Whatever his agent’s past performance, it’s clear he/Reddick have overplayed their hand. They are presuming leverage they simply do not have. The Jets are not desperate for Haason Reddick. If it was otherwise, he’d be with the team already.

His stance is and has been he wants multiple guaranteed seasons at elite DE money. It’s possible that’ll happen, but the Jets have given no indication they have interest in anything like that. Certainly not before seeing firsthand in practice and games whether or not Reddick is still the player he was two years ago. 

[RutgersJetFan]

3 hours ago, Vader said:

You don't understand negotiation or game theory. 

Game theory is when you think Ed Harris is yelling at you that you gotta spy for the U.S. government but that's just a hallucination and then your wife almost leaves you because she can't take it anymore. But then you eventually get over it and win a Nobel prize.

[Vader]

57 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Exactly this... Now he is just an a$$hole hoping for a catastrophe...

Know when to fold a losing hand is true game theory... Holding out for a runner runner is just giving away money

A Maximax strategy wants to achieve the absolute maximum payoff with little regard for the risks. A maxi-max move focuses solely on the highest possible outcome at the cost of exposure to significant losses. The losses and the risk are irrelevant to this strategy. 

Haasan Reddick likely feels slighted by the league and his previous agents. Now that his last two years have the accolades... he feels he deserves what he should have gotten long ago.  

Joe Douglas and Woody Johnson knew this when they traded for him, it was well reported on.

[Dunnie]

what

Poker fish are the players who consistently lose in the game (cash games and tournaments), which allows the sharks to consistently profit. If you're looking to win at poker, the easiest way to make money is by targeting the fish.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[#27TheDominator]

44 minutes ago, Vader said:

there was no shot last year due to the OL... The Jets haven't even made the playoffs in... how long? These opportunities don't come around like ... ever. 

These opportunities come evey year.  Literally.

[Vader]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Therefore he approaches every negotiation in the manner you believe he should in theory, and Johnson/Douglas also will respond in the manner you believe they should in theory (based on your theory)?

The other massive assumption you’re making is that everything Reddick has done thus far has been in alignment with his agent’s recommendations. That may or may not be the case. 

Whatever his agent’s past performance, it’s clear he/Reddick have overplayed their hand. They are presuming leverage they simply do not have. The Jets are not desperate for Haason Reddick. If it was otherwise, he’d be with the team already.

His stance is and has been he wants multiple guaranteed seasons at elite DE money. It’s possible that’ll happen, but the Jets have given no indication they have interest in anything like that. Certainly not before seeing firsthand in practice and games whether or not Reddick is still the player he was two years ago. 

All I'm doing is giving an alternative framing of what's going on based on what I see and what I know since the board doesn't seem to think what's happening makes sense. I have no theory of my own. I suggested that Reddick's agent is pursuing a Maximax strategy which it clearly is. Dandy has negotiated billions of dollars...

A maximax strategy wants to achieve the absolute maximum payoff with little regard for the risks. A maxi-max move focuses solely on the highest possible outcome, often at the cost of exposure to significant losses.

The framework I refer to requires no assumptions only observations. People that don't know they are operating under game theoretic conditions are still operating under them. I've seen this strategy used before in my own negotiations. Sometimes it works (usually with a principal like Woody who is susceptible to PR campaigns and bad press), however it does also often lead to small but cumulative losses and eventually disaster when the strategy fails. A maximax approach disregards risk and losses for the big score. It's a form of brinkmanship.

 

[Vader]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

These opportunities come evey year.  Literally.

to win the superbowl? like a legitimate chance? really.

[Vader]

6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Poker fish are the players who consistently lose in the game (cash games and tournaments), which allows the sharks to consistently profit. If you're looking to win at poker, the easiest way to make money is by targeting the fish.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I was using poker in the sense of who will fold first... bluffs already been called.