The Unfortunate Case Against D'Brick.

[Shadetree]

I look at the film of Winston Justice, and I see a more well rounded OT than Brick.

People, including myself, love Bricks wing span, pass blocking, and character. Unfortunately, I think he became the proverbial # TACKLE because he bitch slapped a puny M.Kwanikua(sic?) from BC during the Senior Bowl. The guy truly belongs at the top of the ratings, but I think the JETS are better served addressing offensive and defensive skill positions other than OT @ pick #4.

Lets assume the team aint thinking QB.(If they are, this posters opinion don't mean ****)

Under that assumption, the team is better served drafting Ngata, Williams, or the the greatest tackling machine in the country, AJ Hawk. Brick's nice, but impact OL will be available @ 29 and 35.

We really don't know Mangini and Tannenbaum. Most, if not all of us, can assume they will try and build this franchise with the same frame of mind as Belichick/Pioli, Crennel/Savage, and at this point, and to maybe to a slightly lesser extent, Tuna. This Belichick-Crennel-Tuna triumvirate has always drafted impact skill positions in the 1st round....both offensive and defensive. Although a LT like Brick certaintly counts as an important, impact position, I don't recall these guys ever leaning on an O-lineman this early in a draft.

I'm talking skill positions like RB, and QB obviously. Offensively, after that, TE and WR have warranted 1st rd. consideration from these guys. Defensively, in the 1st rd, we've seen them commit to S,CB, DL, and LB's, too.

I just get the impression, that these staffs believe they can coach most offensive lines to success, and also believe these offensive and defensive 'skill positions' really decide the outcomes of games.

I just don't see Brick happening because of this.

[ThunderbirdJet]

This is why I've been saying all of these knee-jerk mocks that have us taking D'B at 4 are off target. We NEED a RT, not a LT, and it isn't in the BP/BB mold to go for an O lineman that high. This team needs a run blocking RT NOW. And for God's sake, please dont say move Jones to RT.....

[Fred Jetstone]

The Pats 1st rounder last year was an o-lineman. Belichek knows enough to keep his line strong. It hides weaknesses elsewhere and makes posterboy qb's look better than they really are.

There is no question as to who to pick ---D'Brick.

Hawk would be ok but the line must be strong. It all starts there.

[The Troll]

I just think it's funny how Winston Justice was "just one of the first round tackles" a couple months ago, but now he's better than D'Brick.

[Nick Ferraro]

Justice has been impressive in the workouts, but he has also had issues with justice. Character has to be considered, and he is not as good as D'brick.

I love Mario Wiliams, but he will be gone to New Orleans at #2 unless they trade out.

Ferguson is the 2nd best player in this draft. There is no other player worth the #4 pick at a "skill" position unless Leinert falls to #4.

AJ Hawk is going to be great, but LB is the last position the Jets need.

You guys who think building a team starts with skill positions have a poor undertsanding of the game. Watch how Reggie Bush averages 2.3 yards/carry with that sad OL in front of him next year.

[SeniorFlaJet]

ShadeT, when you say we don't know Manginiand T you hit the nail

on the head. That is what makes this draft so intriguing from no

other than I can remember.

[Shadetree]

I just think it's funny how Winston Justice was "just one of the first round tackles" a couple months ago, but now he's better than D'Brick.

Didn't Justice put up better workout numbers in pretty much every category? I just recently saw highlight clips from both guys, and Justice looks like a pretty darn good run blocker, IMO. His pass protection seemed impressive, too.

Why does it surprise you that someone might think he's better than D'Brick? In relation to where they're projected to go, Justice's value is higher, IMO.

[bitonti]

there's little question that Justice as a physical specimen is just as impressive as Brick - if not more so

the problem is the dude is a chucklehead. He got suspended for a year for pulling a pellet gun on someone. The guy had horrible interviews at the combine.

What makes Brick such a good pick is his maturity and humble demenor. He's not a risk.

[SouthernJet]

there's little question that Justice as a physical specimen is just as impressive as Brick - if not more so

the problem is the dude is a chucklehead. He got suspended for a year for pulling a pellet gun on someone. The guy had horrible interviews at the combine.

What makes Brick such a good pick is his maturity and humble demenor. He's not a risk.

agree,, kiper told me once character translates to teachability down the road,,and even the studs need to learn new schemes etc,,,

[Shadetree]

there's little question that Justice as a physical specimen is just as impressive as Brick - if not more so

the problem is the dude is a chucklehead. He got suspended for a year for pulling a pellet gun on someone. The guy had horrible interviews at the combine.

What makes Brick such a good pick is his maturity and humble demenor. He's not a risk.

Good point. Wasnt he a sophmore in college with the gun incident? College sophmores picking off squirrels with a BB gun??....I'll give him a pass. I mean,after all, who hasn't pointed a low grade firearm at somebody in college? Seriously, I thought he was forthcoming about the gun incident?

I didnt hear about the lousy interviews though? What'd he do fall asleep? Actually, here's a transcript.............

JETS- Do you smoke?

WINSTON- Smoke what?

JETS- What do you mean, 'smoke what?'???

WINSTON- You know. <wink,wink>

JETS-Get D'Brick back in here.

[raffyD]

I just think it's funny how Winston Justice was "just one of the first round tackles" a couple months ago, but now he's better than D'Brick.

Exactly. There is the best LT in the draft and then there is the other guys that are rated highly but not as high as the best. I wouldn't mind the best.

[Bugg]

D'Brick is a physical beast now, and he could stand to add a few pounds of muscle as he gets older. he's smart, teachable and will get in the gym. And at UVA he played in what will likely be a very similar offense. You're officially overanalyzing this if you don't see how good he will be; you're looking for reasons to dislike him.

I'm reasonably confident that the FO is gonna make the right decision.

Two things that are bothering me like a fly you can't quite swat-an offense can have all the skill positions set, but without blocking they won't do a damn thing. This team couldn't score last year, and a lot of that had to do with a bad OL. Did you like Pennington getting smashed? DId you like an ineffective running attack? That's what bad blocking and lousy OL play does.

Second, and it's along the line of bad blocking, the idea"We NEED a RT, not a LT", is wrong. Adrian Jones is a nice solid player, but he's not a LT. No DC is worried about Jones stopping their big pass rusher or road grading the Jets' running attack. That's what a D'Brick can and will do.

[PeterNorth09]

there's little question that Justice as a physical specimen is just as impressive as Brick - if not more so

the problem is the dude is a chucklehead. He got suspended for a year for pulling a pellet gun on someone. The guy had horrible interviews at the combine.

What makes Brick such a good pick is his maturity and humble demenor. He's not a risk.

I love the sports fans who pay more attention to a guy's character than what he does on the field. This was probably one of the same guys who said Randy Moss was going to be a bust in 1998. Justice isn't as good as Ferguson because he doesn't interview well? Are the interviews going to make a difference on the gridiron? Give me a break.

Please, I'm sick of hearing about how players' interviews, wonderlic scores, how much they bench press and how high their verts are. All I care about is what a guy does on the football field. I don't care that he's a nice guy or that he's in the running for a Nobel, I want guys who can help my team win.

For the record, McNeill and Justice are arguably better than Ferguson.

[raffyD]

I love the sports fans who pay more attention to a guy's character than what he does on the field. This was probably one of the same guys who said Randy Moss was going to be a bust in 1998. Justice isn't as good as Ferguson because he doesn't interview well? Are the interviews going to make a difference on the gridiron? Give me a break.

Please, I'm sick of hearing about how players' interviews, wonderlic scores, how much they bench press and how high their verts are. All I care about is what a guy does on the football field. I don't care that he's a nice guy or that he's in the running for a Nobel, I want guys who can help my team win.

My understanding is that, ON THE FIELD, D'Brick was hands down the best. The other stuff just means he'll be good for a really long time.

[PeterNorth09]

My understanding is that, ON THE FIELD, D'Brick was hands down the best. The other stuff just means he'll be good for a really long time.

On the field Marcus McNeill hasn't given up a sack in 41 games. He's also bigger, stronger and faster than Ferguson. Oh, but he didn't line up against Matthias Kiwanukaka in the Senior Bowl.

[bitonti]

Please, I'm sick of hearing about how players' interviews, wonderlic scores, how much they bench press and how high their verts are. All I care about is what a guy does on the football field. I don't care that he's a nice guy or that he's in the running for a Nobel, I want guys who can help my team win.

For the record, McNeill and Justice are arguably better than Ferguson.

no offense but that's the attitude of a horrible GM. You can't give a multi-million dollar contract to a guy who likes to pull guns on people that disagree with him. That stuff does matter. Will a guy stay at the team headquarters and look at film or go home and smoke a blunt? Character matters and it means the difference between winning and losing.

I will agree these two are also elite prospects but McNeill has back problems, Justice has character problems - can these things be overcome absolutely but there is a reason why Brick will get drafted higher. It's not because the entire NFL is run by jackasses. It's because a high draft pick is a huge investment, teams want to know that their investment is relatively safe.

I'll put it another way If character didn't matter Darrell Russell might still be alive.

[raffyD]

On the field Marcus McNeill hasn't given up a sack in 41 games. He's also bigger, stronger and faster than Ferguson. Oh, but he didn't line up against Matthias Kiwanukaka in the Senior Bowl.

I don't know PN, honestly. I personally like McNeill alo myself because he is just HUGE, but I have to believe what the scouts are saying, that D'Brick is hands down the best prospect.

Now, if someone were to throw draft picks at us and we end up with 3 starters, one of which is McNeill at RT, I would be very happy.

[PeterNorth09]

I don't know PN, honestly. I personally like McNeill alo myself because he is just HUGE, but I have to believe what the scouts are saying, that D'Brick is hands down the best prospect.

Now, if someone were to throw draft picks at us and we end up with 3 starters, one of which is McNeill at RT, I would be very happy.

I think McNeill will start out at RT but after a season or two will move to LT. For a guy with his size he is fast. Quite a specimen. If we ended up with him at 29 or 35 I would do one of my trademark money shots.

[Bugg]

no offense but that's the attitude of a horrible GM. You can't give a multi-million dollar contract to a guy who likes to pull guns on people that disagree with him. That stuff does matter. Will a guy stay at the team headquarters and look at film or go home and smoke a blunt? Character matters and it means the difference between winning and losing.

I will agree these two are also elite prospects but McNeill has back problems, Justice has character problems - can these things be overcome absolutely but there is a reason why Brick will get drafted higher. It's not because the entire NFL is run by jackasses. It's because a high draft pick is a huge investment, teams want to know that their investment is relatively safe.

I'll put it another way If character didn't matter Darrell Russell might still be alive.

Put it this way-Carlton Haselrig had much more talent than say, Mark May. But if you knew on day 1 one guy was a motivated, self-starter with and education, as opposed to a bipolar guy with substance abuse issues beyond a few beers, who are you picking for your franchise? Who are you going to write a big check to, to be the face of your team? Who do you expect to tow the line and be the coach's eyes and ears as a lockerroom leader? And at the end of their careers, who do you think will have had a better one? Lawrence Taylor is may the only exception I'd make about that in the entire history of the NFL.

Some of you are now close to making good character a negative.

[SouthernJet]

I'll put it another way If character didn't matter Darrell Russell might still be alive.

and Abraham would still be a Jet

[PeterNorth09]

I'm not disregarding character I just think ability is more important. Character issues can be overcome most of the time. Lack of ability cannot.

Not to mention, in the nfl, you don't even hear about 90% of the off-the-field incidents. I was watching Between the Lines on ESPN a few years ago and they said something like 60% of the players in the nfl have been indicted for violent crimes. Those are just the ones they know about.

As for the Marcus McNeill "back problems" you guys try to overblow, he had a back injury in his sophomore year, played through it with no problem, and it has never bothered him since. Not bad for a guy you guys are trying to portray as being "damaged goods."

[bitonti]

Not bad for a guy you guys are trying to portray as being "damaged goods."

there's no unwritten rule that all of these guys can't be good. No one says Marcus McNeil sucks or Winston Justice sucks. All i'm saying is the Brick's intangibles make him a more elite prospect across the board.

[Bugg]

While some of that book was nominally accurate about brushes with the law, a good chunk of it was debunked.Ther's a serious difference between teenage and 20-something silliness and criminality. Lumping every player who got drunk in public with a few out&out criminals wasn't really fair at all. Their criteria seemed to be that anyone who ever got a police summons, no matter how minor,was bad as rape, gun possession or Leonard Little. Dare say if we're going by that logic to classify organizations as chock full of criminals, in my firsthand experience most brokerage houses, police departments and DA's offices could be similarly described. Extending you're "everybody's a criminal anyway" logic, a team still wouldn't be well-served long-term by indifference taking guys who have serious criminal and character issues.

[raffyD]

Since this has become an offensive lineman thread I thought you guys would be interested in this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2416437

Justice's spotty play, off-field issues raise flags

By Michael Smith

ESPN.com

Archive

Winston Justice's busy pre-draft itinerary included time "Alone with Rome" on Thursday's edition of "Jim Rome is Burning" on ESPN. Well, literally and figuratively the host had company. Justice himself is pretty hot these days.

A 39-inch vertical leap, 38 reps of 225 pounds on the bench, and a time in the 40-yard dash at just more than five seconds (despite a cramp) at 6-foot-6 and 320 pounds will do that. Justice's performance at Southern Cal's pro day on April 2 and his potential -- an early entry, he's 21 and only started playing football as a junior in high school -- make him a virtual lock to be the second tackle taken in the upcoming draft, behind Virginia's D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

And while he doesn't quite sound steamed about it and says it's nothing personal against Ferguson, it's apparent from talking to Justice that the whole No. 2 thing doesn't sit well with him. Justice recently changed agents, from Leigh Steinberg to Gary Uberstine, but clearly he doesn't need much assistance in the promotion area.

"I think I'm the best tackle in the nation," Justice said matter-of-factly during a phone interview over the weekend. "If I don't prove it in the draft, I'll prove it in the NFL. I'm bigger, stronger, and faster than [Ferguson] is. I believe I'm a better prospect because I have more upside. I believe I proved I'm a better athlete than he is on my pro day. I think I'll be the better football player in the NFL."

Justice, in his opinion, is a top-10 talent, although, barring a trade, he is unlikely to go earlier than 13th to Baltimore, and most draft experts have him projected at No. 14 to Philadelphia.

Just how competitive is Justice? He isn't even willing to concede that Ferguson has the more distinguished given name: "Winston Frederick Justice is a better name than D'Brickashaw Ferguson."

The concern with Justice is whether he can be a better player and person than he displayed in three seasons at USC.

His obvious self-confidence aside, Justice, who played right tackle at Southern Cal -- where he was responsible for left-handed quarterback Matt Leinart's blind side -- and projects as either a right or left tackle in the pros, is quite raw and frankly his individual workout was far more impressive than his game film, according to scouts. One team's college scouting director says he assigned Justice a second-round grade, specifically citing his struggles against Notre Dame this past season, while a West Coast scout wonders if Justice is aggressive enough.

Worse for him, Justice has the dreaded (for this time of year) "C word" attached to him. His character is a question. Justice has had legal issues. He was sentenced to probation in July 2003 for solicitation of prostitution in his hometown of Long Beach, Calif. In February 2004, Justice (who was 19 at the time), pulled a toy gun on a USC student Justice mistook for a friend of his. In a plea deal, he received 60 days of electronic monitoring and three years probation. The university suspended him for the fall and spring semesters.

Justice, who started 23 of 24 games as a freshman and sophomore, returned to start all 12 games his junior season before renouncing his final season of eligibility.

"I've made mistakes and I've grown from them," said Justice, adding that he believes he made a strong impression on teams during interviews at the scouting combine and pre-draft visits. "I'm not going to make them again. I'm not going to put my NFL career at risk in any way."

While he was electronically monitored -- in the form of a plastic bracelet on his right ankle -- Justice was allowed to leave his parents' home only to train and, when necessary, for counseling sessions or meetings with the university. His daily routine consisted of working out in the mornings and a new hobby, boxing, in the afternoons. He would return home too exhausted, he says, to dwell on his situation.

Boxing, Justice says, helped him improve his agility and hand speed. He sparred but never with professionals. "I didn't want to mess up my face because it's too pretty," he joked, sounding like an Ali wannabe.

"[Training was] all I wanted to do," Justice said. "I didn't want to go to the club or to the mall. I wanted to work out and have the best season I could and prove everybody wrong. It made me focus. It made me get in the best shape of my life. After those 59 days I was a different athlete."

Justice says his schedule didn't change very much in the two months between electronic monitoring and his return to school.

John Pyle/Icon SMI

Despite some scouts' question marks, Justice thinks he's the best OT prospect.

No surprise considering that Justice, when he decided as a high school sophomore to give up his hoop dreams and pursue football, would drag his father, Gary, to Gold's Gym so that he would be allowed to lift weights; at 15 he was too young to do so unsupervised. His father would read while Winston worked out. Let him tell it, his recent troubles aside, Justice always has been a focused young man. He was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, attended church three nights a week and, when he wasn't in school, he usually could be found at the neighborhood basketball court. Or, from age 10 to 13, playing the piano. Take that D'Brickashaw. (Ferguson plays the saxophone.) Justice takes pride in his work ethic. He says that at USC he was one of the first in the weight room and last to leave the field.

His goal is lofty but nonetheless simple: When he leaves the game, Justice says, he wants to be remembered along with the best to play the tackle position. In the meantime, he won't forget the experience of 2004, when his troubles caused him to miss out on experiencing USC's second national championship.

"It was all kind of like a blessing in disguise," said Justice, who acknowledges that he still struggles with a bit of a stuttering problem, though that didn't stop him from speaking to Boy Scouts during his time away from football and recently to students at his old elementary school about the value of making the right choices. "It made me not take anything for granted and look at football differently. It made me a better person.

"It happened, but I believe I made the best of it."

[Bugg]

Let me tell you this from a professionsl standpoin-the solicitng thing isn't the end of the world. But people don't get the ankle bracelet for a "misunderstanding with a toy gun". That story is BS. That would cause me to wonder about this kid, seriously.

[Jetme23]

what about grabbing both.

[BaumerJet]

Jets | Team checking out Ferguson's psychological fit

Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:56:03 -0700

ESPN.com's John Clayton reports the New York Jets had a retired player visit with Virginia OT D'Brickshaw Ferguson Thursday evening, April 20, to evaluate how he will psychologically fit in the NFL. Head coach Eric Mangini wants smart players who love the game, and the organization will be exhaustive in trying to investigate those traits. Ferguson is expected to pass any of those tests with flying colors.

Also answers the question why we WON'T be taking Vince Young....

[ThunderbirdJet]

The Pats 1st rounder last year was an o-lineman. Belichek knows enough to keep his line strong. It hides weaknesses elsewhere and makes posterboy qb's look better than they really are.

There is no question as to who to pick ---D'Brick.

Hawk would be ok but the line must be strong. It all starts there.

So, you are comparing the #4 overall pick to the #32? Makes sense to me.... not. The Jets could take an O lineman at 29 and it would still be sooner than last year's Pats' pick. Weak.