Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Some people on this site think that statement is "bull****" and they keep bugging me on it so i set up this topic. discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny green balls Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 SPELLING WINS RESPECT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 SPELLING WINS RESPECT whats your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I bet Offence scores points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Some people on this site think that statement is "bull****" and they keep bugging me on it so i set up this topic. discuss You will get your answer on Feb 4th. The Bears D is much better than the Colts D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 I bet Offence scores points. offence gets you to the super bowl and defence wins it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 offence gets you to the super bowl and defence wins it Before you hurt yourself here: D E F E N S E O F F E N S E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 You will get your answer on Feb 4th. The Bears D is much better than the Colts D. bears defence is slightly better they have problems stopping the run. but i woulnot be surprise if they win. i predict the first half going the bears way. colts will mount a come back and make it a close exciting game. i look forward to this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Before you hurt yourself here: D E F E N S E O F F E N S E stick to the topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 bears defence is slightly better they have problems stopping the run. but i woulnot be surprise if they win. i predict the first half going the bears way. colts will mount a come back and make it a close exciting game. i look forward to this one The Bears D creates turnovers. Lots of them. Manning has thrown a bunch of picks in the playoffs so I think it will be closer than most people think. Keep in mind the Bears had the bye week and the Colts didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 The Bears D creates turnovers. Lots of them. Manning has thrown a bunch of picks in the playoffs so I think it will be closer than most people think. Keep in mind the Bears had the bye week and the Colts didn't. thats almost the same thing as i said. so thankyou? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 thats almost the same thing as i said. so thankyou? It was a similar statement I was trying to point out the Bears D is lot better at creating and capitalizing on turnovers than the Colts D. That makes them the better defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 It was a similar statement I was trying to point out the Bears D is lot better at creating and capitalizing on turnovers than the Colts D. That makes them the better defense. gainzo me and u we know football more than some offence lovin peyton crushin pansies on this website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 gainzo me and u we know football more than some offence lovin peyton crushin pansies on this website Not so sure about that. There are plenty of knowledgeable and well informed posters on JN. I'm not sure who you were arguing with about the whole offense/defense thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Not so sure about that. There are plenty of knowledgeable and well informed posters on JN. I'm not sure who you were arguing with about the whole offense/defense thing. i think its dominator or something like that on the new mock draft post they make the same argument over and over and give only one example of how colts got to the super bowl. well how came they never went to the SB before. if offence wonchampionship peyton should have had 4 rings by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 SPELLING WINS RESPECT POTW Nom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 i think its dominator or something like that on the new mock draft post they make the same argument over and over and give only one example of how colts got to the super bowl. well how came they never went to the SB before. if offence wonchampionship peyton should have had 4 rings by now Lets give offenSe and defenSe the S it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 Lets give offenSe and defenSe the S it deserves. i dont recpest the s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaborJet Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 SPELLING WINS RESPECT Damn, I was going for something like that. Defence wins champioships, but not spelling Bees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Every superbowl winner had sperstars on offense that helped them to win the big game. Listed below are the QB, LT, RB, and WR / TE that led each Superbowl Champion to victory: SB QB LT RB WR / TE 1 Bart Star Forrest Gregg Jim Taylor Max McGee 2 Bart Star Forrest Gregg Benjamin Wilson Carroll Dale 3 Joe Namath Winston Hill Matt Snell George Sauer 4 Len Dawson Ron Yary Otis Taylor Mike L. Garrett 5 Johnny Unitas Dan Sullivan Tom Nowatzki John Mackey 6 Roger Staubach Tony Liscio Duane Thomas Lance Alworth 7 Bob Griese Norm Evans Larry Csonka Paul Warfield 8 Bob Griese Norm Evans Larry Csonka Paul Warfield 9 Terry Bradshaw Gordon Gravelle Franco Harris John Stallworth 10 Terry Bradshaw Gordon Gravelle Franco Harris Lynn Swann 11 Ken Stabler Art Shell Clarence Davis Fred Bilitnekoff 12 Roger Staubach Pat Donovan Tony Dorsett Billy Joe Dupree 13 Terry Bradshaw Jon Kolb Franco Harris Lynn Swann 14 Terry Bradshaw Larry Brown Franco Harris John Stallworth 15 Jim Plunkett Art Shell Mark Van Eeghen Cliff Branch 16 Joe Montana Dan Audick Ricky Patton Dwight Clark 17 Joe Theisman Joe Jacoby John Riggins Charlie Brown 18 Jim Plunkett Bruce Davis Marcus Allen Cliff Branch 19 Joe Montana Keith Fanhorst Wendell Tyler Roger Craig 20 Jim McMahon Jim Covert Walter Payton Willie Gault 21 Phil Simms Brad Benson Joe Morris Mark Bavaro 22 Doug Williams Joe Jacoby Timy Smith Ricky Sanders 23 Joe Montana Harris Barton Roger Craig Jerry Rice 24 Joe Montana Harris Barton Roger Craig Jerry Rice 25 Jeff Hostetler Jumbo Elliot Otis Anderson Mark Ingram 26 Mark Rypen Joe Jacoby Ricky Ervins Gary Clark 27 Troy Aikman Mark Tuinei Emmitt Smith Michael Irvin 28 Troy Aikman Mark Tuinei Emmitt Smith Michael Irvin 29 Steve Young Harris Barton Ricky Watters Jerry Rice 30 Troy Aikman Mark Tuinei Emmitt Smith Michael Irvin 31 Brett Farve Earl Dotson Dorsey Levens Antonio Freeman 32 John Elway Gary Zimerman Terrell Davis Ed McCaffrey 33 John Elway Tony Jones Terrell Davis Rod Smith 34 Kurt Warner Orlando Pace Marshall Faulk Torrey Holt 35 Trent Dilfer Jonathan Ogden Jamal Lewis Brandon Stokley 36 Tom Brady Matt Light Antowain Smith Troy Brown 37 Brad Johnson Roman Oben Michael Pittman Keyshawn Johnson 38 Tom Brady Matt Light Antowain Smith Dieon Branch 39 Tom Brady Matt Light Corey Dillon Dieon Branch 40 Ben Rothlisburger Marvel Smith Willie Parker Hines Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I didn't know Plunket qb'd the 85 bears. Besides that, you killed your argument listing Trent Dilfer. You know the Ravens won on Defense and so did the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Every superbowl winner had sperstars on offense that helped them to win the big game. Listed below are the QB, LT, RB, and WR / TE that led each Superbowl Champion to victory: SB QB LT RB WR / TE 1 Bart Star Forrest Gregg Jim Taylor Max McGee 2 Bart Star Forrest Gregg Benjamin Wilson Carroll Dale 3 Joe Namath Winston Hill Matt Snell George Sauer 4 Len Dawson Ron Yary Otis Taylor Mike L. Garrett 5 Johnny Unitas Dan Sullivan Tom Nowatzki John Mackey 6 Roger Staubach Tony Liscio Duane Thomas Lance Alworth 7 Bob Griese Norm Evans Larry Csonka Paul Warfield 8 Bob Griese Norm Evans Larry Csonka Paul Warfield 9 Terry Bradshaw Gordon Gravelle Franco Harris John Stallworth 10 Terry Bradshaw Gordon Gravelle Franco Harris Lynn Swann 11 Ken Stabler Art Shell Clarence Davis Fred Bilitnekoff 12 Roger Staubach Pat Donovan Tony Dorsett Billy Joe Dupree 13 Terry Bradshaw Jon Kolb Franco Harris Lynn Swann 14 Terry Bradshaw Larry Brown Franco Harris John Stallworth 15 Jim Plunkett Art Shell Mark Van Eeghen Cliff Branch 16 Joe Montana Dan Audick Ricky Patton Dwight Clark 17 Joe Theisman Joe Jacoby John Riggins Charlie Brown 18 Jim Plunkett Bruce Davis Marcus Allen Cliff Branch 19 Joe Montana Keith Fanhorst Wendell Tyler Roger Craig 20 Jim Plunkett Jim Covert Walter Payton Willie Gault 21 Phil Simms Brad Benson Joe Morris Mark Bavaro 22 Doug Williams Joe Jacoby Timy Smith Ricky Sanders 23 Joe Montana Harris Barton Roger Craig Jerry Rice 24 Joe Montana Harris Barton Roger Craig Jerry Rice 25 Jeff Hostetler Jumbo Elliot Otis Anderson Mark Ingram 26 Mark Rypen Joe Jacoby Ricky Ervins Gary Clark 27 Troy Aikman Mark Tuinei Emmitt Smith Michael Irvin 28 Troy Aikman Mark Tuinei Emmitt Smith Michael Irvin 29 Steve Young Harris Barton Ricky Watters Jerry Rice 30 Troy Aikman Mark Tuinei Emmitt Smith Michael Irvin 31 Brett Farve Earl Dotson Dorsey Levens Antonio Freeman 32 John Elway Gary Zimerman Terrell Davis Ed McCaffrey 33 John Elway Tony Jones Terrell Davis Rod Smith 34 Kurt Warner Orlando Pace Marshall Faulk Torrey Holt 35 Trent Dilfer Jonathan Ogden Jamal Lewis Brandon Stokley 36 Tom Brady Matt Light Antowain Smith Troy Brown 37 Brad Johnson Roman Oben Michael Pittman Keyshawn Johnson 38 Tom Brady Matt Light Antowain Smith Dieon Branch 39 Tom Brady Matt Light Corey Dillon Dieon Branch 40 Ben Rothlisburger Marvel Smith Willie Parker Hines Ward Superstars like Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypen, Antowain Smith, Timy Smith......... Should I continue? Did the Ravens have a superstar on offense in 2000? Did the Pats have a superstar on offense in 2001? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I didn't know Plunket qb'd the 85 bears. Besides that, you killed your argument listing Trent Dilfer. You know the Ravens won on Defense and so did the Bears. Jonathan Ogden and Jamal Lewis had as much to do with the victoryy as the defense did. Also, Shannon Sharpe was a big part of tier 15 win regular season. You can rip on the rest of their offense as much as you want but Trent Dilfer and the rest of those players controlled the clock, moved the chains, and limited turnovers. As good as the Ravens defense was, they woul have wore down if the offense couldn't give them some rest. Imagine Tony Saragusa playing 45 minutes or more in a game, the man would have had a heart attack. The '86 bears had Walter Payton (one of the best RBs of all time) and Willie Gault on offense as well as a stout offensive line. Even the Fridge was a part of that offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I didn't know Plunket qb'd the 85 bears. QUOTE] Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Superstars like Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypen, Antowain Smith, Timy Smith......... Should I continue? Did the Ravens have a superstar on offense in 2000? Did the Pats have a superstar on offense in 2001? For each of the 40 SB winners I lister their starting QB, starting LT, leading rusher, and leading WR / TE. For every Trent Dilfer on that list there was a Larry Allen, Jay Novacheck, Don Maynard, or Jerome Betis that I left off the list. Very few teams won the superbowl without a superstar at the quarterback position. Doug Williams and Mark Rypen had at least three potential hall of fame linemen blocking for them. For all the talk about Bellichek's coaching, the Patriots have some very underrated and talented players on both sides of the ball. Antowain Smith won two superbowls as a starting running back, he can't be all that bad. Also, every SB winner had a solid offensive line. I can't think of one team that was soft up front that won the big game solely because off their defense. Jonathan Ogden and Tom Brady will both enter the hall of fame as offensive superstars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 For each of the 40 SB winners I lister their starting QB, starting LT, leading rusher, and leading WR / TE. For every Trent Dilfer on that list there was a Larry Allen, Jay Novacheck, Don Maynard, or Jerome Betis that I left off the list. Very few teams won the superbowl without a superstar at the quarterback position. Doug Williams and Mark Rypen had at least three potential hall of fame linemen blocking for them. For all the talk about Bellichek's coaching, the Patriots have some very underrated and talented players on both sides of the ball. Antowain Smith won two superbowls as a starting running back, he can't be all that bad. Also, every SB winner had a solid offensive line. I can't think of one team that was soft up front that won the big game solely because off their defense. Jonathan Ogden and Tom Brady will both enter the hall of fame as offensive superstars. You are twisting the stats to make your point. That's cool.. A below or average offense can win a Super Bowl with an above average defense...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 You are twisting the stats to make your point. That's cool.. A below or average offense can win a Super Bowl with an above average defense...right? A below or average offense can win a SB with an outstanding defense. An offense with a poor or average offensive line would need a miracle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 A below or average offense can win a SB with an outstanding defense. An offense with a poor or average offensive line would need a miracle though. You are making my point! A team with a crappy O-Line probably wouldn't make a Super Bowl unless they had great specials teams and a good/great defense. Sounds like the Bears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 You can't simply say "Defense wins championships" and you can't simply say "Offense wins championships" because both sides need the other side, as well as special teams to help them. But, Strong O/Average D vs Average O/Strong D Strong O/Average D vs Poor O/Strong D Strong O/Poor D vs Average O/Strong D Strong O/Poor D vs Average O/Average D Strong O/Poor D vs Poor O/Strong D Strong O/Poor D vs Poor O/Average D Average O/Average D vs Poor O/Strong D Average O/Poor D vs Poor O/Strong D Average O/Poor D vs Poor O/Average D Decide who wins these games and you'd have an answer, if there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 You are making my point! A team with a crappy O-Line probably wouldn't make a Super Bowl unless they had great specials teams and a good/great defense. Sounds like the Bears! The bears have two outstanging OTs and their center is one of the best. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 The bears have two outstanging OTs and their center is one of the best. Try again. Without going to google can you name the "outstanding" OT's and Center for the Bears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 gainzo me and u we know football more than some offence lovin peyton crushin pansies on this website i think its dominator or something like that on the new mock draft post they make the same argument over and over and give only one example of how colts got to the super bowl. well how came they never went to the SB before. if offence wonchampionship peyton should have had 4 rings by now Some people can't read. I never said that you couldn't win a championship on D. The Ravens did it. I said you could win one on O, like the Rams. Or both like dozens of other teams. The fact that I can understand that the Colts are an offense driven team does not make me a "peyton crushin pansie." I don't even like the guy. Peyton is a choker, that's why they haven't won. I only discuss the Colts because you said it was their D that has gotten them to the title game. Only a defense lovin' fruitcake would believe the Colts D was "awesome" when they were 2nd worst in rush D and yards allowed for the season. Please explain to everyone how the Colts D has dragged them to the Super Bowl. Dragged Manning/Dallas Clark and 350 passing yards kicking and screaming past the Pats. Giving up 27 points along the way. I'd also like to know what the Bears offense did to "get them to the championship." I'm done with this. PS: Gainzo, isn't Brady a superstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I'd also like to know what the Bears offense did to "get them to the championship. Ok, here you go: Passing Statistics NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A LNG TD TD% INT INT% SACK YDS RAT Rex Grossman 262 480 3193 54.6 6.65 62 23 4.8 20 4.2 21 142 73.9 Brian Griese 18 32 220 56.3 6.88 75 1 3.1 2 6.3 3 22 62.0 Brad Maynard 1 1 37 100.0 37.00 37 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 118.8 Thomas Jones 1 1 -4 100.0 -4.00 -4 0 0.0 0 0.0 1 1 79.2 Totals 282 514 3446 54.9 6.70 75 24 4.7 22 4.3 25 165 73.5 Rushing Statistics NAME ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST Thomas Jones 296 1210 4.1 30 6 1 1 Cedric Benson 157 647 4.1 30 6 0 0 Adrian Peterson 10 41 4.1 11 2 0 0 Jason McKie 8 18 2.3 7 0 0 0 Bernard Berrian 2 5 2.5 5 0 0 0 Rex Grossman 24 2 0.1 22 0 3 2 Brian Griese 6 -5 -0.8 0 0 1 1 Totals 503 1918 3.8 30 14 5 4 Receiving Statistics NAME REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST Muhsin Muhammad 60 863 14.4 40 5 1 1 Bernard Berrian 51 775 15.2 62 6 2 1 Desmond Clark 45 626 13.9 33 6 0 0 Rashied Davis 22 303 13.8 31 2 0 0 Mark Bradley 14 282 20.1 75 3 0 0 Jason McKie 25 162 6.5 26 0 0 0 Thomas Jones 36 154 4.3 21 0 0 0 Adrian Peterson 6 88 14.7 37 0 1 0 Justin Gage 4 68 17.0 34 0 1 1 Cedric Benson 8 54 6.8 22 0 0 0 John Gilmore 6 38 6.3 18 2 0 0 Gabe Reid 4 37 9.3 19 0 0 0 Rex Grossman 1 -4 -4.0 -4 0 0 0 Totals 282 3446 12.2 75 24 5 3 Statistics Glossary Data Source: STATS, Inc. Copyright 2006 STATS, Inc. Commercial distribution without the express written consent of STATS is prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hasty Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Without going to google can you name the "outstanding" OT's and Center for the Bears? I stand corrected, the Bears have three outstanding tackles. I remembered John Tait and Olin Kreutz (one of the best centers in the NFL) but couldn't remember John St. Clair's name. When I looked it up I saw that Fred Miller is now the starting RT and John Tait who has started at both tackle positions (he was a LT for Kansas City) is now a backup. I also forgot to mention that Ruben Brown is one hell of a guard as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxscott Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Strong O/Average D vs Average O/Strong D Strong O/Average D vs Poor O/Strong D Strong O/Poor D vs Average O/Strong D Strong O/Poor D vs Average O/Average D Strong O/Poor D vs Poor O/Strong D Strong O/Poor D vs Poor O/Average D Average O/Average D vs Poor O/Strong D Average O/Poor D vs Poor O/Strong D Average O/Poor D vs Poor O/Average D Huh??? I'm so confused and now cross eyed! . . . eenie meanie miny mo, my mother said to pick the very best one, and you are I T, it . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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