Revis

[Greenseed3]

It's probably safe to assume that while we fans expect immediate results, Mangini has been on the two-year plan since his coming to the team. He entered a 4-12 club with intentions of redesigning both the offense and the defense with his "mold" of players, and you can't over-haul a roster in one off-season (or two for that matter).

Our playoff birth was not a prerequisite to him keeping his job, and we shouldn't expect more than what we did before last season (which was an applaudible 8-8 by most forum accounts). That being said, I think the careful re-construction of this team is going to serve the Jets far better than aiming for quick-fixes. Next year's draft boasts plentiful talent at both the DT and OT positions. I'd like to think that our obvious neglect of such positions is to keep the team's re-construction in perspective... i.e. Reaching for Tank Tyler this year; or waiting for Frank Okam/Glen Dorsey (high character true NT prospects) next year? The same can be said of OL talent as some five-to-six prospects are considered possible first-round talent in the '08 draft. Why fill a "need" with a marginal player when a far better solution is just one season away?

I would hope Mangini's team of researchers (which boasts a wealth of football experience and intelligence) has properly scouted both Revis and Harris. Especially considering the last time we moved UP to get a player we landed a possible starting QB, along with a pick which ultimately netted Thomas Jones and leftover fuel to acquire our newest ILB.

We still have all of our '08 picks, and are likely to get more with the release and signing of several players (Askew, Blalock, Barlow... I don't really know how comp picks work). But until after next year's draft, we are still just an 8-8 team that likes sneaking into the playoffs.

[Sperm Edwards]

It's probably safe to assume that while we fans expect immediate results, Mangini has been on the two-year plan since his coming to the team. He entered a 4-12 club with intentions of redesigning both the offense and the defense with his "mold" of players, and you can't over-haul a roster in one off-season (or two for that matter).

Our playoff birth was not a prerequisite to him keeping his job, and we shouldn't expect more than what we did before last season (which was an applaudible 8-8 by most forum accounts). That being said, I think the careful re-construction of this team is going to serve the Jets far better than aiming for quick-fixes. Next year's draft boasts plentiful talent at both the DT and OT positions. I'd like to think that our obvious neglect of such positions is to keep the team's re-construction in perspective... i.e. Reaching for Tank Tyler this year; or waiting for Frank Okam/Glen Dorsey (high character true NT prospects) next year? The same can be said of OL talent as some five-to-six prospects are considered possible first-round talent in the '08 draft. Why fill a "need" with a marginal player when a far better solution is just one season away?

I would hope Mangini's team of researchers (which boasts a wealth of football experience and intelligence) has properly scouted both Revis and Harris. Especially considering the last time we moved UP to get a player we landed a possible starting QB, along with a pick which ultimately netted Thomas Jones and leftover fuel to acquire our newest ILB.

We still have all of our '08 picks, and are likely to get more with the release and signing of several players (Askew, Blalock, Barlow... I don't really know how comp picks work). But until after next year's draft, we are still just an 8-8 team that likes sneaking into the playoffs.

Askew might have netted a 7th round comp pick, but he's the only one. Blaylock & Barlow can't net comp picks b/c they weren't lost to free agency; we released them. Even still, comp picks are only awarded if there was a net loss to free agency, not for every single loss. We signed free agents of our own that would more than cancel out Askew.

Take the 2006 draft for example. In 2005 we lost Jordan and McKenzie and Becht to free agency. But we signed Blaylock and Gardner. Ty Law didn't count b/c he wasn't a free agent by his contract ending; he was cut by NE. So we lost 3 and gained two. The net is one. And that's what we got, for Jordan. It matters not how much more valuable McKenzie was than Gardner or Becht than Blaylock. It's kind of stupid, but that's the way it works.

So yes, technically if the Colts lost Peyton Manning in free agency but signed some unrestricted free agent 3rd-string TE, they would cancel each other out.

[124]

Darrelle Revis was the #1 need. You cannot play an entire season with a fast but over agressive, Justin Miller and an old, non-starter material man in Hank Poteat. Did Poteat fill in nicely for 6 games? Yes. He played fairly well, but you can't expect him to be a full 16 games a season starter, neither can you expect that from Justin Miller who bites as soon as the snap is made, let alone when a pump fake is made.

Darrelle Revis, teamed up with Andre Dyson, gives us the best Cornerback duo in the AFC East (Sorry New England but Samuel & Hobbs will be beaten out by this duo soon enough). He also is a dynamic Punt Returner, something we lacked last season with Tim Dwight injured for half the season, and he is very strong against the run as well, a polished tackler is a strength of his. He is also a good cover corner and when you have to face WR corp's of Randy Moss-Donte Stallworth, Chris Chambers-Marty Booker and Lee Evans-Roscoe Parrish, 6 times a year, you need 2 good corner's to keep up consistently.

Revis was the right pick and we still got the 2nd most needed position in a run stuffing Inside Linebacker. The Jets had one hell of a draft.

[Gibbon]

I think they believe they brought in enough bodies that OLB opposite Thomas will be ok among Hobson, Bowens, Haynes, and Wadsworth. If not, we'll address it next year since only Bowens was signed to a real contract (3 yrs) & the other three are UFA's after this year. Haynes & Wadsworth, to the best of my knowledge, have never played without a hand in the dirt. The move is liberating for some (B.Thomas & stars like Merriman, A.Thomas, S.Philips, etc.) & brings them better success they'd have had as pure 4-3 DE's. Time (and camp) will tell in due time.

The only available ILB'ers who have played in the 3-4 were hardly the type you build a young team around (London Fletcher, who just turned 32 & Donnie Edwards, who turns 34 in November) & would have commanded significant contracts. Taking a flyer on Harris for a 2nd & a 3rd and cheap $ for the next 4 years - particularly with both of last year's starters still around - is the better long-term plan.

Who moves to ILB? I think no one. They'll go with Vilma & Barton in '07 unless Harris shows he's ready right out of the gate, in which case they may trade Barton for a mid-round pick in '08. He makes too much to be a backup ($4.3M cap #), but in this market he's not expensive for a starter ($3M salary) for another team. I doubt they move Hobson inside. Plus they still have Schlegel who, despite being unimpressive as a rookie, you have to keep in mind was just that; a rookie.

True 3-4 DE's (not DE/OLB 'tweeners) in camp opposite Ellis are Kenyon Coleman (the likely starter barring the discovery that he's awful) & Eric Hicks, plus Kimo & Hamilton. It's possible they're looking at Haynes here also, but at 283 lbs (about the same as Ellis who's already not huge for a 3-4 DE) he may be more effective dropping 10 lbs & moving to OLB instead of adding 5-15 lbs and staying at DE. No one really knows what they have planned for him.

Compare that depth to our CB depth opposite Dyson, which is otherwise the same as last year other than the great Abdul Hodge:

Barrett, who I'm sure they'd like to unload given his $3.6M/yr salary ($4.4M cap #)

Miller, who has shown between little & nothing as a CB

Poteat & Coleman, who are fine for backups; not starters with Revis' talent

The only other area where we have such lousy depth (or starters) is on the offensive line. I think it came down to trading up for Revis when the opportunity presented itself or a top talent at guard (Blalock, etc); though nobody knows for sure. If there was a true RT available with first-round talent, I think they'd have stayed pat & gone that way considering they did take a look at Colombo & let Clement test the FA waters. The only player who might have come close to that was Levi Brown, but Arizona took him way earlier than he was expected to go.

Sperm:

Nice break down of the LBs.

I've been saying for a while that I think Barton will be gone before June 1. It hasnt happened yet so I might have to eat that prediction. I'm interested in knowing who you think the Jets will end up cutting from the LB corps?

To me it seems that if Barton stays Kassell has to go. Also, with the acquisition of Bowens it seems to me that Chatham became expendable.

That would leave:

Thomas, Vilma, Barton, Hobson, Harris, Schlegel, Bowens, and (st guy) Spencer (who I suppose could be let go in favor of Chatham or Kassell). Which is 8 already and doesnt seem to leave much room for Wadsworth -- I dont think.

Barton seems like such a logical cut/ trade to me that I have a hard time putting him on that list. He plays well, I'm not bashing him , but when you have a guy you subbed for him last year still on the team and two guys you drafted to play ILB and the guy makes more money than any of them, it seems like he's the odd man out. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

Also, I'd be interested in reading your thoughts about the possibility of giving Harris a shot at playing OLB in Hobson's spot?

[Ghost]

It's hard for a team to win a SB and have a great D without a SHUTDOWN corner, I see that in Revis.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm:

Nice break down of the LBs.

I've been saying for a while that I think Barton will be gone before June 1. It hasnt happened yet so I might have to eat that prediction. I'm interested in knowing who you think the Jets will end up cutting from the LB corps?

To me it seems that if Barton stays Kassell has to go. Also, with the acquisition of Bowens it seems to me that Chatham became expendable.

That would leave:

Thomas, Vilma, Barton, Hobson, Harris, Schlegel, Bowens, and (st guy) Spencer (who I suppose could be let go in favor of Chatham or Kassell). Which is 8 already and doesnt seem to leave much room for Wadsworth -- I dont think.

Barton seems like such a logical cut/ trade to me that I have a hard time putting him on that list. He plays well, I'm not bashing him , but when you have a guy you subbed for him last year still on the team and two guys you drafted to play ILB and the guy makes more money than any of them, it seems like he's the odd man out. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

Also, I'd be interested in reading your thoughts about the possibility of giving Harris a shot at playing OLB in Hobson's spot?

I really don't know. Sure it's possible, but I think they brought him in specifically to play ILB. They brought in too many FA OLB'ers (and retained Hobson) to think that they would then draft someone to play OLB (particularly when it's not really his position). And with Barton coming in & out (even if he's still the starter), I think they view that as a good way to ease Harris in (instead of inserting Kassell or whoever else).

If he's really that good in camp, then they may trade Barton before the season. (I doubt he gets outright released; we don't need the cap space & if we're not getting anything for him, it would do just as well to have him as 2nd-string or subbing in & out. But you really never know until it's done).

[Ryno the Jet]

I think timbok is a little misguided, but this thread has progressed nicely. Harris was a great pick to satisfy the need timbok was expressing; a run stopper. Top it off that we got him in round two, after we picked up the best corner in the draft; I cannot believe people are trying to find fault with this draft!

Moreover, I think it is easy to get wrapped up in who will play what position. Yes, the coaching staff will produce a roster, with players listed at a position, but they will rotate around in so many different looks that defining the position of the LBs and DEs in not necessary. To me, we should evaluate the offseason based on the versitilty of the players acquired, at least defensively. With this in mind, the Jets FO deserves a Gold Star A+, IMHO...

[Gibbon]

I really don't know. Sure it's possible, but I think they brought him in specifically to play ILB. They brought in too many FA OLB'ers (and retained Hobson) to think that they would then draft someone to play OLB (particularly when it's not really his position). And with Barton coming in & out (even if he's still the starter), I think they view that as a good way to ease Harris in (instead of inserting Kassell or whoever else).

If he's really that good in camp, then they may trade Barton before the season. (I doubt he gets outright released; we don't need the cap space & if we're not getting anything for him, it would do just as well to have him as 2nd-string or subbing in & out. But you really never know until it's done).

I guess I just keep remembering Tannenbaum saying one of the things they really liked about Harris was position flexibility. The Jets did bring in alot of FA OLB "types", but only Bowen's can be considered a lock to make the team. The others are longshots and probably not really considered long term solutions at Hobson's position. This assumes that the team is not sold on keeping Hobson at OLB which their lack of effort to extend his contract seems to indicate. I agree that Harris was most likely brought in to play ILB, but I think there is about a 25% possibility that he moves out there.

As for Barton, your arguments are good ones, its still a lot of money to pay an older guy to play on a team that is rebuilding.

[Ryno the Jet]

I guess I just keep remembering Tannenbaum saying one of the things they really liked about Harris was position flexibility. The Jets did bring in alot of FA OLB "types", but only Bowen's can be considered a lock to make the team. The others are longshots and probably not really considered long term solutions at Hobson's position. This assumes that the team is not sold on keeping Hobson at OLB which their lack of effort to extend his contract seems to indicate. I agree that Harris was most likely brought in to play ILB, but I think there is about a 25% possibility that he moves out there.

As for Barton, your arguments are good ones, its still a lot of money to pay an older guy to play on a team that is rebuilding.

I don't know about rebuilding. I would like to think that the team is built, it just needs a little tweaking. The Jets need to add a few players at some key positions, but this core of players will be your New York Jets for years to come.

Harris may play outside some, but he is better sutited for the inside (plus if he goes outside, I will have to change my sig and we don't want that; do we?). Anyway, I think Bowens will emerge as the OLB starter opposite Thomas, but Hobson will see significant time as well. Barton, providing he is still around, will be the guy who hops back and forth from inside to outside the most IMO. As I have said in other posts and threads, the best aspect of the 07 Jets D will be the tremendous versatility and wide array of looks they can present to disturb opposing QBs and OCs.

[Gibbon]

I don't know about rebuilding. I would like to think that the team is built, it just needs a little tweaking. The Jets need to add a few players at some key positions, but this core of players will be your New York Jets for years to come.

Harris may play outside some, but he is better sutited for the inside (plus if he goes outside, I will have to change my sig and we don't want that; do we?). Anyway, I think Bowens will emerge as the OLB starter opposite Thomas, but Hobson will see significant time as well. Barton, providing he is still around, will be the guy who hops back and forth from inside to outside the most IMO. As I have said in other posts and threads, the best aspect of the 07 Jets D will be the tremendous versatility and wide array of looks they can present to disturb opposing QBs and OCs.

I really dont see Bowen as anything other than a situational pass rusher. He's pretty terrible against the run. I just dont see him as the long term answer.

As for rebuilding. I think that process is still in progress. The team is a lot closer to built than last season obviously, but I think its still a little out from the "tweeking" process. There are still too many questions on the OL, at QB, at NT, and at OLB and ILB (will vilma work well in the system and want to stay in it, etc).

[Ryno the Jet]

I really dont see Bowen as anything other than a situational pass rusher. He's pretty terrible against the run. I just dont see him as the long term answer.

As for rebuilding. I think that process is still in progress. The team is a lot closer to built than last season obviously, but I think its still a little out from the "tweeking" process. There are still too many questions on the OL, at QB, at NT, and at OLB and ILB (will vilma work well in the system and want to stay in it, etc).

With Coleman at DE, Bowens should be better against the run. Keep in mind in Miami he played DE in the 4-3 and had to line up against Taclkes. As an OLB in the 3-4, he should be able to shed blockers better during run sits.

I agree the OL needs to continue to add youth, but they have already acquired youngstas at the two most important OL positions. They have a project in Bender. I would want to keep a few savy vets on the line, even if OL is the first position they address in the draft next year.

As for QB, I think the Jets feel like Chad is the man, and when he is not the man anymore, they will insert KC. Chad is in control of his own destiny and IMO, nobody knows if he has hit his ceiling or not.

The LB corps is solid IMO, and I think the world will be amazed how much Vilma progresses this year.

NT is the weakest link, but only against the run when D_Rob needs a breather.

I think the Jets will have the luxury of drafting the BAP next year in the early rounds, and when you are in that situation, you are no longer building IMO.