Samuel on Jets

[SoFlaJets]

Some Jets fans make me laugh out loud.

1) Mr. Mangini must be a big fan of Bill Belichick's favorite book: Art of War. Rule #1 (or 2 or 3...whatever) try to sabotage your "enemy" through bullsh*t ...hahahahaha...

2) People here think that Asante Samuel is worth an 8 year @ 10 mil per year, contract? How many opiates were in your cornflakes this morning?

3) You think Asante Samuel is worth two first round picks? So, you are willing to help make the "best" team in the AFC East a legit threat for years to come?

4) You all call Tom Brady a "system QB" - whatever. But you know what? If anyone is a "system" player - it's Asante. What Asante should do is THANK what is arguably the best front 3 in football for his success last season.

5) No team is going to give Asante what he wants and give the Pats two first round picks as compensation. That is insanity. All it's doing is feeding Asante's super-sized ego. The Jets FO has done what it possibly can do - cause a ripple and help keep Asante on the bench 'till week 10 or beyond.

agreed Garb-he ain't worth the price you gotta pay to get him-and again, no WAY we try-I could see a team like Denver or Washington and maybe even the Dolphins doing something so stupid-not THIS F.O.-we ain't the blockbusting type team

[#27TheDominator]

Some Jets fans make me laugh out loud.

1) Mr. Mangini must be a big fan of Bill Belichick's favorite book: Art of War. Rule #1 (or 2 or 3...whatever) try to sabotage your "enemy" through bullsh*t ...hahahahaha...

2) People here think that Asante Samuel is worth an 8 year @ 10 mil per year, contract? How many opiates were in your cornflakes this morning?

3) You think Asante Samuel is worth two first round picks? So, you are willing to help make the "best" team in the AFC East a legit threat for years to come?

4) You all call Tom Brady a "system QB" - whatever. But you know what? If anyone is a "system" player - it's Asante. What Asante should do is THANK what is arguably the best front 3 in football for his success last season.

5) No team is going to give Asante what he wants and give the Pats two first round picks as compensation. That is insanity. All it's doing is feeding Asante's super-sized ego. The Jets FO has done what it possibly can do - cause a ripple and help keep Asante on the bench 'till week 10 or beyond.

I agree that the Jets are just keeping their noses in to make the Pats miserable. Rightfully so. Obviously the Jets aren't going to offer two #1s for him. I pretty much hope/expect they don't go after him at all, now or next year. Especially with Revis on board. As for Samuel being a "system" player, the Jets do run the same system. Probably moreso than any other team in the NFL. Sure our front 3 is weaker, but it's still the same system and he has demonstrated ability and versatility in that system. As for him being worth the big contract (in the absence of giving up picks) I'm not so sure he's not worth it, considering the rising cap and the money Clements & Dre Bly got, he's going to cash in for a pretty hefty chunk of change and he probably deserves it.

[joewilly]

No he's not worth the coin especially coupled with picks but lets not lose sight of the importance of a solid cornerback on any D. samuels helped the front 3 as well cause the defense could call plays with confidence in their man coverage. jets got burned on more than 1 occasion on big plays when the d scheme called depended on man coverage and failed. anyone watch the bears game?

yeah the pats can overcome issues like this better than most every other team in the league but make no mistake. the pats are a better team with him in the line up.

[Garb]

I agree that the Jets are just keeping their noses in to make the Pats miserable. Obviously the Jets aren't going to offer two #1s for him. I pretty much hope/expect they don't go after him at all. Especially with Revis on board. As for Samuel being a "system" player, the Jets do run the same system. probably moreso than any other team in the NFL. Sure our front 3 is weaker, but it's still the same system and he has demonstrated ability and versatility in that system. As for him being worth the big contract (in the absence of giving up picks) I'm not so sure he's not worth it, considering the rising cap and the Clements money he's going to cash in for a pretty hefty chunk of change.

Agreed about the "system" concept. However, and you said so yourself, your D-line is WEAKER. It is my stance that because of this WEAKER line - Asante's performance would suffer. We will never know this as proven fact, but it's my belief: if I were a betting girl, I'd bet that Asante will never match his 2006 numbers.

[#27TheDominator]

Agreed about the "system" concept. However, and you said so yourself, your D-line is WEAKER. It is my stance that because of this WEAKER line - Asante's performance would suffer. We will never know this as proven fact, but it's my belief: if I were a betting girl, I'd bet that Asante will never match his 2006 numbers.

Couldn't agree more. That's a big part of why he's so pissed about this franchise tag crap. Next year he'll be franchised again or trying to sign a big deal with declining numbers because it's unlikely he tops those INT numbers even with an excellent season.

[joewilly]

Agreed about the "system" concept. However, and you said so yourself, your D-line is WEAKER. It is my stance that because of this WEAKER line - Asante's performance would suffer. We will never know this as proven fact, but it's my belief: if I were a betting girl, I'd bet that Asante will never match his 2006 numbers.

it goes both ways garb. asante's coverage skills make the front 3 better. if you can't man up on recievers with confidence the playcalling changes & front 3 become more conservative

[Garb]

it goes both ways garb. asante's coverage skills make the front 3 better. if you can't man up on recievers with confidence the playcalling changes & front 3 become more conservative

Not in this case. The d-line made Asante better, not the other way around. Asante is a good coverage guy. He is not a great coverage guy.

[EM31]

Some Jets fans make me laugh out loud.

1) Mr. Mangini must be a big fan of Bill Belichick's favorite book: Art of War. Rule #1 (or 2 or 3...whatever) try to sabotage your "enemy" through bullsh*t ...hahahahaha...

2) People here think that Asante Samuel is worth an 8 year @ 10 mil per year, contract? How many opiates were in your cornflakes this morning?

3) You think Asante Samuel is worth two first round picks? So, you are willing to help make the "best" team in the AFC East a legit threat for years to come?

4) You all call Tom Brady a "system QB" - whatever. But you know what? If anyone is a "system" player - it's Asante. What Asante should do is THANK what is arguably the best front 3 in football for his success last season.

5) No team is going to give Asante what he wants and give the Pats two first round picks as compensation. That is insanity. All it's doing is feeding Asante's super-sized ego. The Jets FO has done what it possibly can do - cause a ripple and help keep Asante on the bench 'till week 10 or beyond.

Well you guys are on the hook for his franchise money or whatever portion of it his sitting out activities leaves to him when all is said and done.

Talk down his contribution please. All that does is serve to encourage the wounds to fester and possibly reduce any trade value he has to the Patriots. If he ends up being percieved as a bad apple then his cost to whoever takes him will be reduced I should think. Even if it ends up putting off some teams then it will have allowed those teams to dodge a bullet.

Best case for the Jets is a festering sore this year in Foxboro and nobody stupid enough to hand over a first the way they did last year with Branch. Best case is Patriots non-refundable cap dollars going into this guy. Additional benefits include other homegrown veterans wondering if they will be treated shabbily by the organization when the time comes for them to get their bug payday because, you know, the organization needs to hoard its pennies to pay for those high-priced non-homegronwn free agent players

<edited to add>

Eric Mangini should make a point to go over and give Asante a big-ole man hug at the end of the season opener. Assuming Asante is in uniform that is. He could let Asante know how much of a shame it is that Asante has had so many difficulties working out a new contract.... This is all good...

[Garb]

Well you guys are on the hook for his franchise money or whatever portion of it his sitting out activities leaves to him when all is said and done.

Talk down his contribution please. All that does is serve to encourage the wounds to fester and possibly reduce any trade value he has to the Patriots. If he ends up being percieved as a bad apple then his cost to whoever takes him will be reduced I should think. Even if it ends up putting off some teams then it will have allowed those teams to dodge a bullet.

Best case for the Jets is a festering sore this year in Foxboro and nobody stupid enough to hand over a first the way they did last year with Branch. Best case is Patriots non-refundable cap dollars going into this guy. Additional benefits include other homegrown veterans wondering if they will be treated shabbily by the organization when the time comes for them to get their bug payday because, you know, the organization needs to hoard its pennies to pay for those high-priced non-homegronwn free agent players

<edited to add>

Eric Mangini should make a point to go over and give Asante a big-ole man hug at the end of the season opener. Assuming Asante is in uniform that is. He could let Asante know how much of a shame it is that Asante has had so many difficulties working out a new contract.... This is all good...

It's 2 firsts, not one. Branch was NOT a franchsed player last year.

I suspect - and am almost certain - that if Asante does hold out 'till game 10 - BB will bench his arse and FINE him ('cause he can after come the 10th week) for reasons like "conduct detrimental to the team" - kind of like what he did to Glenn. Screw Asante Samuel. Play with fire, be prepared to get burned. I think the Patriost learned a lesson or two from last's years debacle with Branch. Let him sit and stew.

[EM31]

It's 2 firsts, not one. Branch was NOT a franchsed player last year.

I suspect - and am almost certain - that if Asante does hold out 'till game 10 - BB will bench his arse and FINE him ('cause he can after come the 10th week) for reasons like "conduct detrimental to the team" - kind of like what he did to Glenn. Screw Asante Samuel. Play with fire, be prepared to get burned. I think the Patriost learned a lesson or two from last's years debacle with Branch. Let him sit and stew.

I understand Garb dear... "two firsts" of course. We said the same thing about Abraham at the beginning. "Nothing less than two firsts..."... blah blah blah or some such. And it is Jets fans who are on Opiates???

Anyhow, In following the similar doings with the Bears it seems like the recent collective bargaining agreement severely limits the club in terms of it's ability to fine players for conduct detrimental to the team. If he shows up on week ten, you have to take him back and he get credit for the year as far as length of service goes. Try it by all means but those kinds of games can backfire.

Philly couldn't even make most of that stick with TO...

Alternatively Asante can show up "early" and get one of the nasty strained hamstring thingies. It ooften happens when players come into camp late. Really really often if the player is "disgruntled". Those nagging hammy's can last for a loooong time off and on. Seven million and change helps to ease the pain though

[Garb]

I understand Garb dear... "two firsts" of course. We said the same thing about Abraham at the beginning. "Nothing less than two firsts..."... blah blah blah or some such. And it is Jets fans who are on Opiates???

Anyhow, In following the similar doings with the Bears it seems like the recent collective bargaining agreement severely limits the club in terms of it's ability to fine players for conduct detrimental to the team. If he shows up on week ten, you have to take him back and he get credit for the year as far as length of service goes. Try it by all means but those kinds of games can backfire.

Philly couldn't even make most of that stick with TO...

Alternatively Asante can show up "early" and get one of the nasty strained hamstring thingies. It ooften happens when players come into camp late. Really really often if the player is "disgruntled". Those nagging hammy's can last for a loooong time off and on. Seven million and change helps to ease the pain though

yes, 7 million, pro-rated - which is a 6.something million pay raise for the guy and he's willing to piss away 10 games worth of it.

One thing about my Patsies - they want to make a player suffer, they will. BB has my FULL support in this endeavor. Screw Asante Samuel.

[flgreen]

The hamstring thing, and or sitting out 10 games, will hurt his market value next season.

What he will do is cry alot, come in late, play hard to up his market value, and pray he doesn't get hurt.

[PFSIKH]

I understand Garb dear... "two firsts" of course. We said the same thing about Abraham at the beginning. "Nothing less than two firsts..."... blah blah blah or some such. And it is Jets fans who are on Opiates???

Anyhow, In following the similar doings with the Bears it seems like the recent collective bargaining agreement severely limits the club in terms of it's ability to fine players for conduct detrimental to the team. If he shows up on week ten, you have to take him back and he get credit for the year as far as length of service goes. Try it by all means but those kinds of games can backfire.

Philly couldn't even make most of that stick with TO...

Alternatively Asante can show up "early" and get one of the nasty strained hamstring thingies. It ooften happens when players come into camp late. Really really often if the player is "disgruntled". Those nagging hammy's can last for a loooong time off and on. Seven million and change helps to ease the pain though

The Patriots can also franchise him again.

His "I will be back by Game 10" is warning shot.

Essentially, it means sign me or deal me. He is trying to force the hand. This is not Breaking News worthy. It is his next move. The Pats tagged them. They attempted to negotiate and obviously do not like the Pats' offer.

Maybe the Pats will sweeten it a little, but he is probably pretty close to what he is going to get. He will then have the option of negotiating a deal where they do not use it and he comes back in time for the season or he sits to Game 10 and risks getting tagged again. I do not see the Patriots agreeing to the first option because it does them little.

They know the miss handled the Branch situation and got burned. Id oubt anything like that happens. Especially with the Jets.

BTW Assante is very good. I think he is better then Garb says and I like how he comes up big in the playoffs. However, he is not as good as Champ Bailey or even Nate Clements. He should get what the tag price is on average.

[EM31]

The Patriots can also franchise him again.

His "I will be back by Game 10" is warning shot.

Essentially, it means sign me or deal me. He is trying to force the hand. This is not Breaking News worthy. It is his next move. The Pats tagged them. They attempted to negotiate and obviously do not like the Pats' offer.

Maybe the Pats will sweeten it a little, but he is probably pretty close to what he is going to get. He will then have the option of negotiating a deal where they do not use it and he comes back in time for the season or he sits to Game 10 and risks getting tagged again. I do not see the Patriots agreeing to the first option because it does them little.

They know the miss handled the Branch situation and got burned. Id oubt anything like that happens. Especially with the Jets.

BTW Assante is very good. I think he is better then Garb says and I like how he comes up big in the playoffs. However, he is not as good as Champ Bailey or even Nate Clements. He should get what the tag price is on average.

Reggie White is the last (and only) player I thought was worth two #1's.

Sure you can franchise him again but that whole "average salary of the top 5 players at your position or 120% of your last year's salary whichever is higher" thingy can get downright brutal pretty quick. As a 2nd year franchise player that would be around $9 million in 2008 (minimum) and nearly $11 million if the Pats were go for an additional year after that.

I am unclear about how good Samual is but you are on the right track, it certainly makes no sense to talk down his value if you might end up wanting to be compensated for him in a trade. Still I think you should be a good fellow not interfere is Garb (and others) if they decide they want to do that very thing.

Incidentally I never understood the objection to the franchise tag from a cornerback. With linebackers, and other high impact positions, yes. These players are only one play away from unemployment so the signing bonus is a crucial nest egg for them. For cornerbacks I just think that they have an entirely different injury exposure profile. For them, to get franchise money every year for a few years in a row is a good deal I would have thought.

Ah well, if he is not happy then it is certainly for him to decide and I am sure the world will be full of people telling him to take the deal he is being offered and be happy about it. Garb for one.