Where's My Thread ecurb?

[MasonJet]

We'll see. I've just got a hunch that at some point this season someone on the Jets coaching staff has at least the momentary thought, "Man I wish we had kept Schlegel." Laugh if you want. Its just a hunch.

It'll probably be more like "I wish we never wasted that 3rd round pick on Schlegel. We probably could have drafted somebody who could have actually made the team."

[Gibbon]

It'll probably be more like "I wish we never wasted that 3rd round pick on Schlegel. We probably could have drafted somebody who could have actually made the team."

You could be right. We'll have to wait and see.

[SouthernJet]

Actually you are wrong. See the Buckeyes actually ran several blitz packages in which Schlegel and Hawk crossed and hit opposite side gaps. One would blitz first thus occupying the back or forcing a double team while the other, starting a beat later, would then be freed up to get the QB with little or no opposition. Because Hawk was/ is faster, Schlegel was normally the first guy, thus the guy more likely to face a double team.

Keep in mind that double teams in pass protection are usually situational -- you double whoever hits the most vulnerable gap or the best rushing D linemen. See, LBs dont blitz on every down. Now it is true that in 05 Carpenter did frequently line up as fifth down lineman and because of his speed and strength he was double teamed in passing situations. This usually benefited the other DE, Mike Kudla (take a look at his sack total) more than Schlegel or Hawk who were frequently in coverage in this situation.

See the problem with a planned double team of a linebacker is this. The only really effective blockers on your team that are lined up close enough to pull it off are the linemen and the tight end. But in the 4-3 (5-2) alignment the Buckeyes ran most often in 05 that means that to effectively double team a linebacker 2 of the six olinemen (I'm including the TE) had to run past a charging D lineman to seal off the LB. It is doubly difficult because being a linebackers they can choose to lineup or be lined up anywhere. So IF a team were double teaming Hawk lets say, the D coordinator could negate that double team by shifting the LBs alignment or switching the LBs.

One of the great things about the 05 Buckeye linebacking corps was that they were all smart, tough, experienced players and the coaching staff could trust them to run different stunts and present different fronts from week to week and therefor negate any plans to double team effectively any LB no matter how crazy that attempt might have been.

You dont know what you're talking about when it comes to Buckeye football. Please stop making me make you look like an idiot.

wrong again,,nice try at spin,,

this guy was a turd in middle of two slices of fresh warm italian bread..

proof is he didnt stick as even a scrub on jets , even though a 3rd round,,he is now , the 53rd guy on a team from close to where he played college ball,, runner-up U..

bengals threw a bone to hometown fans..

better hope there isnt a proven thug LB cut in next few days..marvin couldnt resist that

seriously, ,good luck to the guy,, i hope he makes it, ,saeems like a solid stand up guy... we are just bustin your balls

[Gibbon]

wrong again,,nice try at spin,,

this guy was a turd in middle of two slices of fresh warm italian bread..

proof is he didnt stick as even a scrub on jets , even though a 3rd round,,he is now , the 53rd guy on a team from close to where he played college ball,, runner-up U..

bengals threw a bone to hometown fans..

better hope there isnt a proven thug LB cut in next few days..marvin couldnt resist that

seriously, ,good luck to the guy,, i hope he makes it, ,saeems like a solid stand up guy... we are just bustin your balls

Thanks for the .

Would you care to prove me wrong in what I said about Ohio State football or are you just going to accept that I own you on the subject.

[SouthernJet]

Thanks for the .

Would you care to prove me wrong in what I said about Ohio State football or are you just going to accept that I own you on the subject.

u were wrong,,

schelgel looked good due to double teams, and plays being pushed towards him, due to great guys on corners,,

your track record on player evaluation doesnt bode well for over all footba;ll knowledge

[Gibbon]

u were wrong,,

schelgel looked good due to double teams, and plays being pushed towards him, due to great guys on corners,,

your track record on player evaluation doesnt bode well for over all footba;ll knowledge

Did you not read my previous posts where I used actual facts to prove that your unsupported statements wrong?

Ok, let me ask you this. If what you say were true, what would happen to the big play and tackle numbers of each of the three LBs?

If Hawk and Carpenter were being double teamed and Schlegel being left free to roam, would their numbers go down and his go up?

Would Schlegel be the one making more sacks and tackles for loss and sacks or Hawk and Carpenter?

Honestly answer these questions and we'll continue this conversation.

[SouthernJet]

Did you not read my previous posts where I used actual facts to prove that your unsupported statements wrong?

Ok, let me ask you this. If what you say were true, what would happen to the big play and tackle numbers of each of the three LBs?

If Hawk and Carpenter were being double teamed and Schlegel being left free to roam, would their numbers go down and his go up?

Would Schlegel be the one making more sacks and tackles for loss and sacks or Hawk and Carpenter?

Honestly answer these questions and we'll continue this conversation.

of course not,, those 2 guys are studs and play thru that crap..

peppers gets doubled but still gets the #s...

schelgel did what he could, ,which was workmanlike,,

[Gibbon]

of course not,, those 2 guys are studs and play thru that crap..

peppers gets doubled but still gets the #s...

schelgel did what he could, ,which was workmanlike,,

So, on top of your claim that both were regularly double teamed (in some way which you fail to explain) that they were so good that those double teams have virtually no effect on their play. Those guys were good, but a guy getting double teamed all the time doesnt make as many plays. And the reality is, that Hawk and Carpenters sack and TFL #s went up dramatically in 05. Schlegel's actually went down. Could this be that because of his leading the team in TFL and being second on the team in sacks in 04 forced offensive coordinators to gameplan for him as well.

Please stop embarassing yourself in your statements about Buckeye football. It is clear that you dont know what you are talking about and that the actual facts are against you.

You may be right about Schlegel's professional abilities (as I have said, time will tell), but you are just dead wrong about his college career. Its ok to admit your wrong. Everyone here knows it already.

[Sperm Edwards]

I just did a google search for "gibbon" & it found this picture from Schlegel's myspace page.

This is now getting interesting...

[SouthernJet]

So, on top of your claim that both were regularly double teamed (in some way which you fail to explain) that they were so good that those double teams have virtually no effect on their play. Those guys were good, but a guy getting double teamed all the time doesnt make as many plays. And the reality is, that Hawk and Carpenters sack and TFL #s went up dramatically in 05. Schlegel's actually went down. Could this be that because of his leading the team in TFL and being second on the team in sacks in 04 forced offensive coordinators to gameplan for him as well.

Please stop embarassing yourself in your statements about Buckeye football. It is clear that you dont know what you are talking about and that the actual facts are against you.

You may be right about Schlegel's professional abilities (as I have said, time will tell), but you are just dead wrong about his college career. Its ok to admit your wrong. Everyone here knows it already.

yes,, all great allpros fight thru double teams and stil lare studs,,thats why they are allpros,,they not only get #s when doubled , but help team by freeing up someone else with one less guy to worry about,,

same thing on offense, ,jerry rice wa salways doubled, he was stil la stud, but freed up a stalented WR to always have single ecoverage or allowed san fran to always go to a RB dump off pass , with no online CB or LB coverage cuae of the Rice double team..

Hey good luck with your man,, hope he sticks,, but I cant continue this,, u r reminding me of Oktaren

[Green DNA]

I just did a google search for "gibbon" & it found this picture from Schlegel's myspace page.

This is now getting interesting...

POTW nomination.

[JetCane]

POTW nomination.

I second that. That is a classic.

[ECURB]

I just did a google search for "gibbon" & it found this picture from Schlegel's myspace page.

This is now getting interesting...

Couldnt find Many shots of him in an NFL jersey huh? LOL

[Sperm Edwards]

Couldnt find Many shots of him in an NFL jersey huh? LOL

lol

[Gibbon]

yes,, all great allpros fight thru double teams and stil lare studs,,thats why they are allpros,,they not only get #s when doubled , but help team by freeing up someone else with one less guy to worry about,,

same thing on offense, ,jerry rice wa salways doubled, he was stil la stud, but freed up a stalented WR to always have single ecoverage or allowed san fran to always go to a RB dump off pass , with no online CB or LB coverage cuae of the Rice double team..

Hey good luck with your man,, hope he sticks,, but I cant continue this,, u r reminding me of Oktaren

There is a considerable difference between double covering a WR and double teaming two LBs on each and every play. One is possible one is impossible. Just to begin with the rules and realities governing offensive behavior are more restrictive thus making doubling a receiver relatively easy to accomplish, thought not always wise. The offense is forced into limiting formations and by the need to protect the QB into not just lining up 8 wideouts and making the double team impossible. LBs as Mangini's 3-4 proves can be lined up anywhere and any member of the D can line up in an LB spot. For instance in the Jets nickle vilma and the nickle back line up in what is technically the LB spots. If you were going to double team Vilma to keep him from getting to the QB on a blitz you A) couldnt be sure he was coming or where he was coming from and couldnt be sure that when you set up to double team the nickel back wouldnt blitz or a corner etc. You can be pretty sure when Jerry Rice is on the field he is going to line up on the line or slightly off the line split out from the offensive line. He starts off on one side of the field or another. He cant move once he is set on the line and he has to come set before the ball is snapped. If he is in motion he cant come towards the line before the ball is snapped. None of these things is true of a LB. He can line up anywhere, go anywhere, come from anywhere, perform almost any assignment. In other words he is impossible to double team.

The reality of the OSU situation in 05 was that Carpenter lined up at the end of the D line about 65% of the time. Thus his total tackle numbers went down and his sack numbers went up. However, this mean that the other two LBs had run stopping duties on interior runs and runs to the other side. There is no way to guarantee, even if you scheme to have two blockers on one LB (which is likely to increase the effectiveness of the D Line) that the LB you want to double will be lined up in the position in which you had planned your double team.

Teams do run away from effective players. But in the Buckeyes D there was no place to run effectively. If there had been they wouldnt have led the nation in Rush D in 05.

I accept your admission of being unable to continue in this debate because you are flat wrong and by now even you know it.

[Sperm Edwards]

Mannenbaum are idiots for releasing Schlegel. They have no eye for talent.

[ECURB]

Mannenbaum are idiots for releasing Schlegel. They have no eye for talent.

They have picked Chad Pennington to be the starting QB for 2 years in a row now... and according to some of the "experts" here on JN that is a bad move...

[Sperm Edwards]

They have picked Chad Pennington to be the starting QB for 2 years in a row now... and according to some of the "experts" here on JN that is a bad move...

This is going to turn into a Chad vs Kellen thread? Sweet!

[ECURB]

This is going to turn into a Chad vs Kellen thread? Sweet!

IT would be more interesting that way... lets change it up a bit though...

Chad VS Tui

[Sperm Edwards]

IT would be more interesting that way... lets change it up a bit though...

Chad VS Tui

Tui has a cannon. Chad has a noodle-arm.

Tag. You're it. No backsies.

[ECURB]

Tui has a cannon. Chad has a noodle-arm.

Tag. You're it. No backsies.

Tui was a Raider, that stain doesnt come out.

[Sperm Edwards]

Tui was a Raider, that stain doesnt come out.

I know. Barton was a Raider once. Now he's going back to college & posting on a flunkie message board.

[SouthernJet]

There is a considerable difference between double covering a WR and double teaming two LBs on each and every play. One is possible one is impossible. Just to begin with the rules and realities governing offensive behavior are more restrictive thus making doubling a receiver relatively easy to accomplish, thought not always wise. The offense is forced into limiting formations and by the need to protect the QB into not just lining up 8 wideouts and making the double team impossible. LBs as Mangini's 3-4 proves can be lined up anywhere and any member of the D can line up in an LB spot. For instance in the Jets nickle vilma and the nickle back line up in what is technically the LB spots. If you were going to double team Vilma to keep him from getting to the QB on a blitz you A) couldnt be sure he was coming or where he was coming from and couldnt be sure that when you set up to double team the nickel back wouldnt blitz or a corner etc. You can be pretty sure when Jerry Rice is on the field he is going to line up on the line or slightly off the line split out from the offensive line. He starts off on one side of the field or another. He cant move once he is set on the line and he has to come set before the ball is snapped. If he is in motion he cant come towards the line before the ball is snapped. None of these things is true of a LB. He can line up anywhere, go anywhere, come from anywhere, perform almost any assignment. In other words he is impossible to double team.

The reality of the OSU situation in 05 was that Carpenter lined up at the end of the D line about 65% of the time. Thus his total tackle numbers went down and his sack numbers went up. However, this mean that the other two LBs had run stopping duties on interior runs and runs to the other side. There is no way to guarantee, even if you scheme to have two blockers on one LB (which is likely to increase the effectiveness of the D Line) that the LB you want to double will be lined up in the position in which you had planned your double team.

Teams do run away from effective players. But in the Buckeyes D there was no place to run effectively. If there had been they wouldnt have led the nation in Rush D in 05.

I accept your admission of being unable to continue in this debate because you are flat wrong and by now even you know it.

haha,, i actually thought you were in your 20s or above till those last 'i win' statements,, very teen or below bantering,,unless yo uare a type a hothead who has lost all his friends over the years with crazy man behavior,,,

your scouts knowledge of schleglessman has proven your football 101 skills,,its like football 001,,

keep dreaming you know football,,you have been schooled so many times its laughable,,but yo ucontinue to play oktaren or madmike and not go away even though you have schooled by your own predictions..

i am done, ,write what you want,, but you are either his brother or his life partner,, i havent figured out which one

[mangenious420]

Is it Sunday yet?

[Gibbon]

haha,, i actually thought you were in your 20s or above till those last 'i win' statements,, very teen or below bantering,,unless yo uare a type a hothead who has lost all his friends over the years with crazy man behavior,,,

your scouts knowledge of schleglessman has proven your football 101 skills,,its like football 001,,

keep dreaming you know football,,you have been schooled so many times its laughable,,but yo ucontinue to play oktaren or madmike and not go away even though you have schooled by your own predictions..

i am done, ,write what you want,, but you are either his brother or his life partner,, i havent figured out which one

Are you seriously attacking my maturity now. You who type in obvious "text" speak without capitalization, punctuation, or spelling out words like "you". Give me a break junior.

I didnt start including the "I won" statements until you began starting all of your responses with "ur wrong".

You started this particular part of the discussion on this thread and then havent had the maturity to admit that you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

BTW, if you want to come off as the mature one in a debate implying that the guy who has just whipped you in a football discussion is gay kind of defeats your purpose.

[joebabyny]

This is going to turn into a Chad vs Kellen thread? Sweet!

well it is about time we had one of those on this board! lolsc

[SouthernJet]

Are you seriously attacking my maturity now. You who type in obvious "text" speak without capitalization, punctuation, or spelling out words like "you". Give me a break junior.

I didnt start including the "I won" statements until you began starting all of your responses with "ur wrong".

You started this particular part of the discussion on this thread and then havent had the maturity to admit that you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

BTW, if you want to come off as the mature one in a debate implying that the guy who has just whipped you in a football discussion is gay kind of defeats your purpose.

but u didnt,,u are horrific in football knowledge,, u lost horribly,,

you have been blowing schleg-less since day one and YOU WERE WRONG,,, get it sparky,, WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats right, WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BP]

haha,, i actually thought you were in your 20s or above till those last 'i win' statements,, very teen or below bantering,,unless yo uare a type a hothead who has lost all his friends over the years with crazy man behavior,,,

your scouts knowledge of schleglessman has proven your football 101 skills,,its like football 001,,

keep dreaming you know football,,you have been schooled so many times its laughable,,but yo ucontinue to play oktaren or madmike and not go away even though you have schooled by your own predictions..

i am done, ,write what you want,, but you are either his brother or his life partner,, i havent figured out which one

Whoa, this is classic Ward Cleaver at it's finest.

[SouthernJet]

Whoa, this is classic Ward Cleaver at it's finest.

thank you Fred Rutherford

[Gibbon]

I just did a google search for "gibbon" & it found this picture from Schlegel's myspace page.

This is now getting interesting...

Thats great. I wish I could do stuff like that.

Look, I'm as eager for this thread to end as most of you are. Its gotten too long and you are all right to think its a waste since the guy isnt on the team anymore.

I started it because I wanted ecurb to pay off a bet we made, not to rehash my opinions of Schlegel etc. He paid up so the only reason I kept posting on this thread was to respond to people who challenged my statements about Schlegel. I went back and read them all and to sum up the most important points I am posting the following:

1. Last season I said that Schlegel would at least be in the two deep for the Jets this season. I was wrong. Someone else posted something on the thread from last season about how I was wrong. I posted to that thread that I never said he would be in the two deep for the Jets. Obviously I was wrong about Schlegel and the Jets and my comment was intended to be funny. Ecurb then said no one would pick him up and we made a bet.

2. In this thread and else where I have stated that I dont think Schlegel was given a fair shot to show what he could do and that cutting him without letting him play one series as an LB in an actual game seemed foolish to me.

3. I did say that I didnt think it helped that Schlegels LB coach was a former Michigan guy and I stand by that. But I never said it was a major factor.

4. I have never said that the mangament/ coaches of this team were idiots for cutting Schlegel, I just think it was mistake. Not a monumental mistake, but a mistake.

5. I have attempted to refute the stupid assertion of SouthernJet about Schlegel's career at Ohio State and proved that he knows nothing about Ohio State football or Schlegel's college career. This is not the same as asserting that I am right about Schlegel the pro. I have said that I still think we have to wait and see if he turns into a player. Thats my opinion. I dont know if I'm right. I do know that I am right about Ohio State Football however.

6. I have enjoyed debating the topics in this thread with flgreen, boozer76, 124 and others and respect their differences of opinion just as I respect jetcane and tbird jet who also disagreed with me.

I'm more than willing to let the thread die. Just wanted to restate my points in one place so they didnt continue to get turned into something they werent.

[SouthernJet]

Scchlegel got cut = you were wrong..wrong as in wrong..so until he shows ANYTHING close to pro talent, then his OSU days were hawk and carpenter sandwich material..

its ok to let thread die now..

[Gibbon]

Scchlegel got cut = you were wrong..wrong as in wrong..so until he shows ANYTHING close to pro talent, then his OSU days were hawk and carpenter sandwich material..

its ok to let thread die now..

How can I let the thread die when you keep giving me so many easy opportunities to make you look like a fool.

If you read 1. in my list I said I was wrong about Schlegel and the Jets.

College is college. You can be a great player in college and not make it in the pros. You can be a so so player in college and make it in the pros. By what logic does Schlegel's being cut by the Jets and picked up by the Bengals in any way indicate that he wasnt an excellent college linebacker?

Had enough yet son?

[SouthernJet]

How can I let the thread die when you keep giving me so many easy opportunities to make you look like a fool.

If you read 1. in my list I said I was wrong about Schlegel and the Jets.

College is college. You can be a great player in college and not make it in the pros. You can be a so so player in college and make it in the pros. By what logic does Schlegel's being cut by the Jets and picked up by the Bengals in any way indicate that he wasnt an excellent college linebacker?

Had enough yet son?

Scchlegel got cut = you were wrong..wrong as in wrong..so until he shows ANYTHING close to pro talent, then his OSU days were hawk and carpenter sandwich material..

its ok to let thread die now..

[Gibbon]

Scchlegel got cut = you were wrong..wrong as in wrong..so until he shows ANYTHING close to pro talent, then his OSU days were hawk and carpenter sandwich material..

its ok to let thread die now..

Ok, so let me get this straight. Your saying that any player who fails on his first attempt at sticking with an NFL team could not have possibly been an excellent player on the collegiate level. And that it is impossible that a guy could get cut by one pro team, get picked up by another, and have been a good college player.

Do me a favor, read your idiotic statements to a friend, co-worker, fellow inmate, whoever before you post again.

Your obvious stupidity is making me pity you.

[SouthernJet]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Your saying that any player who fails on his first attempt at sticking with an NFL team could not have possibly been an excellent player on the collegiate level. And that it is impossible that a guy could get cut by one pro team, get picked up by another, and have been a good college player.

Do me a favor, read your idiotic statements to a friend, co-worker, fellow inmate, whoever before you post again.

Your obvious stupidity is making me pity you.

only one idiotic is you. you have been wrong from DAY ONE, ,get over it,, this pin ewarmer getting picked up by bengals as practice fodder doesnt change the fact you were WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

see ya,, done for the night..