Kansas City in revolt!!!!

[pjam76]

Has anyone started a FIRE ERIC petition yet???

Give him another year and see if they actually improve the team, not pull another Herm where they are ok one year, bad the next, good after that, bad again but they never really improve.

But I will tell you this, if KC doesn't start until sometime in December, I will severely doubt Mangini and company know how to build a winner.

[MSGold12]

Abe was on the sidelines down the stretch and in postseason whnt he D nearly carried us to a Championship Game. The only guys on KCs D that are significant upgrades over their Jet counterparts are Allen and Johnson. Hali is still developing and it wuldn't be a big difference if we were playing the right system. Ellis was PBer in the 4-3 Robertson played like a PBer in the 4-3, Vilam was a PBer in the 4-3 and all 3 are lost in this system.

Yes, I agree...it IS like argueing with a 12 year old. I think you have accurately described how most of this board feel about you on the subject.

Now, on to more of your comedy...

1. I dont quite understand your logic. You think KC is "half as talented". You think KC has had a much harder schedule and would have a much better record then us if they had our schedule. You defend Herm. Yet you say you'd rather have Mangini, curently a HC of a "twice as talented", 1-5 jet team, then herm. OK...that makes sense.

2. You denegrated who the Jets have played, saying the Giants were crap, the ravens overrated and the Bills a 1 win team, yet you start tooting Herm as somehomw being validated because he beat Cincy...also a 1 win team and Minny (2 wins). Herm could always beat the dregs, hes good at that.

3. Your droning on and on about the talent levels of the jets v KC is so wrong its hilarious. Lets take a look a bit more objevctively.

On DL, KC has Tami Hali (8 sacks as rookie starter), Ron Edwards, Jared Allen (one of the best pass rushers in the AFC) and Boone who started parttime for a great Chi D. That is not only NOT half as good as the Jets, it may very well be substantialy BETTER considering DRob is NOT a 3-4 player and is useless in our D and Coleman has never been a starter before this year.

At LB, they have Johnson who is an equivalent talent to Vilma (excpet unlike Vilma hes playing in a D where he can be effective), Harris is much better then Barton and a VERY good player, and Dixon Edwrds (reagrdless of your ageism issues) has been a pro bowl level player for a long time, had 170 takles last year whihc makes him more productive then either BT (who has been sh*t this year) or Hobson. Edge: KC

Secondary. Law and Surtina may be older but again your assinine conclusion that they suck because they are older is baseless. BL, Law/Surtain tandem right now is better then Dyson/Revis. Maybe in 2009 we'll be better but right now...no. At S, Page is a real comer and clearly not "half" the player Rhodes is. The KC secondary may be old...but its also good.

On O....

QB- Sorry, but right now Chad pennington is NOT better then just about ANY QB in football. Huard was 8-1 last year as a starter. Neither team exactly has Tom Brady back there.

RB- OK, so Larry Johnosn sarted slowly this year...does that mean the 1800 yards he had just LAST season dont count? He is better then ANY weapon we have on O. Not even close. And having the threat of larrry JOhnson makes up for their lack of QB significantly

WR- Coles and Cotch are very good players but neither can scare a D. By contrast, this Bowe kid looks like the real deal and Kenison is a solid pro. Edge Jets...but not by much and certainly not DOUBLE!

TE- Again, you use gae as your sole factor. Gonzo had 70+ catches last year for 900+ yards. Thats better then 90% of all other TEs including ours. And hes been very productive this year also. HUGE edge KC.

OL- We have Mangold, they have Weiggman. Weigman has been all-pro but I like Mangold so I'll call that a draw. They have a pro bowler in Waters at OG...how do our OGs look? Chris Tery at RT is clearyl as good if not better then Clement. Welbourne is no worse then Moore. And until I see more from Brick, hes not "twice as good as anybody". As a unit, KCs OL is better then ours...bit even close.

So basically, the idea that "KC isnt half as talented as we are" (remember Mrs Edwards...thats YOUR quote) is not only laughable, its simply untrue. KC has a very good front 7, an aging but very solid secondary, a decent OL (clearly better then ours), a superstar RB, a HOF and still productive TE, and a WR corp that has some serious upside.

BL Mrs Edwards...the team Hermy took over in KC is MUCH better then the one he left for Mangini here. Again, Herm takes a "non rebuild", playoff talented team...he sneaks them into the playoffs (after an unprecendented collapse by 3 other teams) where he is embarassed yet again...and then he can "take credit" for being a playoff coach. You want to know why the KC D is playing so well? Bceause they have Gunther Cunningham as their coordinator!!!! Its certainly not anything herm is doing since we all KNOW he has so little say in game day strategy. Why is their O so poor? Because Herm is an ultra conservative bafoon and plays eevry game to win 9-7!!!! That O should be MUCH better then it is...despite 27 points against the worst D in football.

Btu thats OK Mrs Edwards. If your goal is to have your team around 500 and never have any real shot to be an elite team, then Herms your guy. If you like your team to look like fools on HBO as Hermy does his chuck and jive routine...hes your guy. If you dont mind a HC who will toss EVERYONE under the bus to save his ass until he cant throw anyone else...Herm is your guy. He has talent in KC (regardless of your assinine analysis to the contrary) so he'll win some games. maybe even enough to get a WC spot in a terrible AFC. But it doesnt change the fact that hes an AWFUL game day coach and his mitivational skills are terirbly overrated.

Give herm a rebuild and lets see what he does...instead of being handed 9 or 10 win teams like he has been.

[pjam76]

You make some valid points however a lot of your points kind of make this Jets regime look bad. Mangini didn' take over the worse team in the NFL. He took over a team that made the playoffs 3 out of 5 years. 2005 was a year decimated by injury.

I think the biggest problem with your theory is that the Chiefs defense has been a laughing stock for how many years now? Even when they won like 14 games back in 2003 or something, they had one of the worst defenses in the league. Being the defense has some playmakers on it now and looks like a real defense, I'd say that makes Herm actually look like a guy who knows how to build a defense. His offensive skills, well they have a lot to be desired.

The problem with the Jets right now is they are not good at anything. And if the Jets were such a terrible team when Mangini took over, WHY NOT GUT THe entire team?

The majority of the players on the team last year that went 10-6, were not Mangini and Tanni's players.

I agree Herm should have been gone and he has issues. But stop making excuses for this new regime. They didn't take over the worst team in the NFL. They didn't take over a team that had no talent at all. Don't claim it's rebuilding when the majority of the players on this team aren't under 25 years old.

At this point, this regime needs to bounce back next season with some key moves and improvements or they will become known as nothing more than One Year wonders. Kind of like Jim Mora Jr and the Atlanta Falcons.

[MSGold12]

Mangini took over a 4-12 team whose QB was coming off major shoulder suregry, whose star RB was done, who OL was on its last legs, wose best pass rusher was ready to bolt, whose secondary lost the only pro bowler it had in 2005 and a team whose talent base had deteriorated signifcanlty over the 5 years Herm was there and whose cap situation was lousy. Why do you thinm Herm wanted out so badly????? he saw how bad tings were going to get and since he had already thrown everyone possible under the bus, there was no one left to blame...so he bolted. Not to mention the team discipline had eroded under Herm and his BBQ style coaching. The jets were in a LOT worse shape then the 10 win KC team Herm took over that had a Trent Green, larry Johnson, some serious studs on the OL and Gonzo.

As to Tangini, they needs to take some hits too...NO DOUBT. IMO< they SHOULD have gutted the team more then they did...especially this PAST off season. And I KILLED Herm for taking a 3-4 team and forcing it to play a 4-3. Mangini is doing the same thing and in the proces neutralizing talent like Vilma and DRob. I said on anohter board that the 10-6 season might be a curse in disguise. Because we won 10 with an easy sked and an injury free year but were not as good as Tangini seemed to think we were. I am making NO excuses for Tangini, they have a LOT to prove and nad better have a bbetter off season in 08 then they did in 07. BUt the issue at hand was Herm and how he was handed such a talentless team in KC.

As to KC, their D is so much beter this year because they have one of the best DCs in football now in Cunnngham. Look at herms history. When had had a lousy DC (Cotrell), his D sucked. When he had a good DC (Henderson) the D was good. Players were the same pretty much. Thats why KCs D is better...talent and a DC. Throw in the fact that Herms philosophy on O shortens the game consaiderably AND that Petersen drafted well and made some solid FA iock ups. It is NOT due to Herm.

nyjunc is a ridiculous Herm apologist. He takes some very shallow arguements and runs with them as some type of proof that the 99% of the football thinking population is wrong about Herm and he is right.

[pjam76]

Herm is what he is, but at this point, I can't say Mangini is any better. They are 1-5 this season and look horrible.

THe same problems they had last season, they have this season. The "tough" schedule so far this season is a lame excuse. Besides he Pats, there have not be any great teams. So using the excuse that they won 10 games last season due to an easy schedule just doesn't cut it. It's not like they are playing the Pats, Colts, and Cowboys every week.

And surrounding yourself with great assistants is what coaching is all about. BB had great coordinators. So did Bill Walsh. So did Mike Holmgren. So did Bill Parcell's. If Mangini is a know it all, then that's on him, not on anybody else.

And I don't buy the Chiefs are better than the Jets. "experts" called the Chiefs a 4 win team this year. Hey they still might only win 4 games, but at this point, I've not been impressed with Mangini at all this season.

I didn't like Herm all that much, but I'm starting to dislike Mangini the more and more this team just looks passionless. And there seem to be far more Mangini apologists than Herm defenders at this point.

At this point, how much longer before the team gives up on Mangini? Cause they sure never look like they're fired up for him.

[MSGold12]

Herm is what he is, but at this point, I can't say Mangini is any better. They are 1-5 this season and look horrible.

THe same problems they had last season, they have this season. The "tough" schedule so far this season is a lame excuse. Besides he Pats, there have not be any great teams. So using the excuse that they won 10 games last season due to an easy schedule just doesn't cut it. It's not like they are playing the Pats, Colts, and Cowboys every week.

And surrounding yourself with great assistants is what coaching is all about. BB had great coordinators. So did Bill Walsh. So did Mike Holmgren. So did Bill Parcell's. If Mangini is a know it all, then that's on him, not on anybody else.

And I don't buy the Chiefs are better than the Jets. "experts" called the Chiefs a 4 win team this year. Hey they still might only win 4 games, but at this point, I've not been impressed with Mangini at all this season.

I didn't like Herm all that much, but I'm starting to dislike Mangini the more and more this team just looks passionless. And there seem to be far more Mangini apologists than Herm defenders at this point.

At this point, how much longer before the team gives up on Mangini? Cause they sure never look like they're fired up for him.

Herm is what he is after 7 years. Thats why I am glad hes gone. Mangini is still only

a second year HC which is why I am willing to reserve judgement for a little longer. But right now, his hneymoon period has CLEARLY ended. Its not the sked...it was the teams inability to raise the talent level this past off season. They acted like a 10 win team that was 2 or 3 plauers away from being a elite team. They were very wrong. They were more like a 7 or 8 win team that needed an infusion of talent to become a solid playoff team and they didnt do that. As to his assistants, I dont see how Schotty went from genius to idiot in 1 year...I think its a talent problem. On D, he may very well need to get rid of Sutton but I think its a talent problem there too.

Mangini is on VERY dnagerous ground right now and yes...his team is looking very "Herm like" in how flat they are, how illprepared they play and how little they adjust.

But the issue wasnt if mangini was great or not...the jury is still very out on that one. It was about Herm and nyjunc's riduclous defense of him. BL, the Chiefs were considered a 4 win team because they had no QB and it looked like SD and Denver were going to be powerhouses in the division. The have alot of talent as I pointed out in my other post. And once again Herm takes on a talented team and sneaks them into the playoffs thrugh a series of unlikely events by OTHER teams and thus poeple like nyjunc think hes a good coach. He's not and never was...but he ay VERY well be the LUCKIEST SOB I have ever seen coach a NFL team.

[JetsMan57]

That would actually be funny if the Jets could beat anybody.. The only win this season is against the Dolphin's. A team with 0 wins.

Who we beat has nothing to do with the fact that herm sucks.

[nyjunc]

Nothing on this planet inspires human beings more than the agate type on the Chiefs' website and media guide quite like "Quarterbacks Coach-DICK CURL".

Oh, yeah-the Chiefs are headed for greatness, if greatness consists of 7 to 9 wins and just barely making the playoffs . Which means Edwards wins enough games to stick around for another year. I'm sure as usual with every Edwards' victory, Coach Jerk Chicken is holding a personal Thanksgivintg Day Parade to celebrate, which means BET AGAINST THE CHIEFS NEXT WEEK.

KC should have won about 4 games this year total and they already have 3. the point is you guys always say how he can't coach yet he always seems to win. How is that?

We never said Herm couldnt beat 1-4 teams. He was actually pretty good at that with us too.

We have played teams comparable to the bengals th last 3 weeks and we've lost each game.

[nyjunc]

1. I like Herm but I think Herm is the type of coach who will only get you so far, I like Mangini's potental better.

2. The Bills, Giants and eagles are all comparable to Cincy and Minny and KC beat Cincy and Minny while we lost the 3 games to Buf, NYG and Philly.

3. we have been over this, you are ging gaga ovre big names from the past. We have as much talent as Kc on D and ALOt more on O and STs.

QB: a bad Chad is better than Huard.

RB: You say Chad slowing down makes huard better but we can count previous years for LJ since it helps your argument? LJ is the better back but TJ has been better this year just like Chad is the better QB even though he and Huard have put up almost identical #s.

WR: not even close. Bowe may develop into a top WR but he's not clse to Coles and Cotch right now. Bowe has hasd 1 big game and oh by the way the solid pro ddie Kennison has zero catches this year.

TE: No doubt Gonzalez is better than Baker but he sill isn't the same player he was a few years ago.

OL: they are about even w/ the talent KC has lost in the last 2 years.

Don't get caught up in the half as talented" remark. Not every comment is meant to be taken literally but we do have alot more talent than KC. KC is in full rebuilding mode, we were expected to be a playoff team. KC has a few edges but overall we have the edge on O the D's are about even and we have a big edge on STs.

The team Herm took over was much better? you mean the team that hadn't made the playoffs in 3 yrs compared to the one EM took over that was a year removed from a div playoff game? The KC team that lost a dominant LT and 2 starting Ol overall plus their PB FB was better than what was left EM? OK. I love how we didn't have the talet in 2000 when w/ groh then we magically had all the talent from '01-'05 then we have no talent again. this is where you lose all yuor credibility.

Herm is in the midst of rebuilding and he's doing a great job getting that team to 3-3 and in 1st place.

[BP]

Hey junc, just a question.

Do you subscribe to every anti-Herm thread with email notification of a reply?

[nyjunc]

As to KC, their D is so much beter this year because they have one of the best DCs in football now in Cunnngham. Look at herms history. When had had a lousy DC (Cotrell), his D sucked. When he had a good DC (Henderson) the D was good. Players were the same pretty much. Thats why KCs D is better...talent and a DC. Throw in the fact that Herms philosophy on O shortens the game consaiderably AND that Petersen drafted well and made some solid FA iock ups. It is NOT due to Herm.

nyjunc is a ridiculous Herm apologist. He takes some very shallow arguements and runs with them as some type of proof that the 99% of the football thinking population is wrong about Herm and he is right.

Gunter was DC in KC in 2004 an 2005 so why wasn't KC's D good? Why al of a sudden did it get alot better in 2006 when Herm arrived? It was coincidence, right? Just lie it was coincidence both the Jets and Chiefs missedthe playoffs 2 straight years then made it in year 1 under Herm.

I am not a Herm apologist, I'm a realist. I defend the truth against misinformed folks like you who have an agenda. The facts back me up but keep yapping and think you are right.

[nyjunc]

Hey junc, just a question.

Do you subscribe to every anti-Herm thread with email notification of a reply?

I don't need to, everone is so consumed w/ herm her that whenever I search new posts there are multiple threads to choose from. I am sick of taking about Herm but i must defend what is right. Just look at the title of this thread, it was silly nonsense b/c 2 fans put up an anti-herm board.

[nyjunc]

http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1192941337143110.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

[nyjunc]

http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1192941337143110.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

[pjam76]

At this point there are probably more people revolting against Mangini than there are revolting against Herm.

[pjam76]

At this point there are probably more people revolting against Mangini than there are revolting against Herm.

[JetsMan57]

http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1192941337143110.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

Of course the players miss Herm. They were allowed to takes practices off, not work out and play overweight. Now they actually hav eto be held accountable for mistakes instead of getting a pat on the back. Ty Law practiced as he pleased his one year with us.

Mangini will weed out the suckers.

[JetsMan57]

http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1192941337143110.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

Of course the players miss Herm. They were allowed to takes practices off, not work out and play overweight. Now they actually hav eto be held accountable for mistakes instead of getting a pat on the back. Ty Law practiced as he pleased his one year with us.

Mangini will weed out the suckers.

[pjam76]

Of course the players miss Herm. They were allowed to takes practices off, not work out and play overweight. Now they actually hav eto be held accountable for mistakes instead of getting a pat on the back. Ty Law practiced as he pleased his one year with us.

Mangini will weed out the suckers.

Have you watched this team play? They are 1-6 and could wind up 1-15. I'm sorry but treating players like crap and not winning, usually gets you fired in the NFL. It doesn't make you a great coach.

[pjam76]

Of course the players miss Herm. They were allowed to takes practices off, not work out and play overweight. Now they actually hav eto be held accountable for mistakes instead of getting a pat on the back. Ty Law practiced as he pleased his one year with us.

Mangini will weed out the suckers.

Have you watched this team play? They are 1-6 and could wind up 1-15. I'm sorry but treating players like crap and not winning, usually gets you fired in the NFL. It doesn't make you a great coach.

[JetsMan57]

Have you watched this team play? They are 1-6 and could wind up 1-15. I'm sorry but treating players like crap and not winning, usually gets you fired in the NFL. It doesn't make you a great coach.

He is treating them no different than last year, only difference is now they are losing so Eric is a problem. I doubt Mangini is going anywhere for anothe year or two. Pointing the finger to the coaches is typical of players of a losing team. This team sucks and needs a major upgrade in talent. Its not like we are the San Diego chargers losing here. Coaching has to improve too, granted.

[JetsMan57]

Have you watched this team play? They are 1-6 and could wind up 1-15. I'm sorry but treating players like crap and not winning, usually gets you fired in the NFL. It doesn't make you a great coach.

He is treating them no different than last year, only difference is now they are losing so Eric is a problem. I doubt Mangini is going anywhere for anothe year or two. Pointing the finger to the coaches is typical of players of a losing team. This team sucks and needs a major upgrade in talent. Its not like we are the San Diego chargers losing here. Coaching has to improve too, granted.

[pjam76]

I doubt Mangini is going anywhere for anothe year or two. Pointing the finger to the coaches is typical of players of a losing team. This team sucks and needs a major upgrade in talent. Its not like we are the San Diego chargers losing here. Coaching has to improve too, granted.

That is where I see a problem. They have not brought in the talent. The way they are going, it'll be 2022 before they have enough talent.

On paper, the offense shouldn't be as bad as it is. As far as the defense, they might as well not even play defense..

[pjam76]

I doubt Mangini is going anywhere for anothe year or two. Pointing the finger to the coaches is typical of players of a losing team. This team sucks and needs a major upgrade in talent. Its not like we are the San Diego chargers losing here. Coaching has to improve too, granted.

That is where I see a problem. They have not brought in the talent. The way they are going, it'll be 2022 before they have enough talent.

On paper, the offense shouldn't be as bad as it is. As far as the defense, they might as well not even play defense..

[JetsMan57]

That is where I see a problem. They have not brought in the talent. The way they are going, it'll be 2022 before they have enough talent.

On paper, the offense shouldn't be as bad as it is. As far as the defense, they might as well not even play defense..

I agree that we will have another down year or two, too many holes on this team to fill them in one offseason.

The whole front 7 needs to be replaced if we seriously want to run the 3-4 effectively. Everybody collectively is awful.

[JetsMan57]

That is where I see a problem. They have not brought in the talent. The way they are going, it'll be 2022 before they have enough talent.

On paper, the offense shouldn't be as bad as it is. As far as the defense, they might as well not even play defense..

I agree that we will have another down year or two, too many holes on this team to fill them in one offseason.

The whole front 7 needs to be replaced if we seriously want to run the 3-4 effectively. Everybody collectively is awful.

[pjam76]

Another few seasons being down is a concern for me. If the OL showed it was improved this season but the team still was 1-6, at least there is hope. Bring in KC and maybe next season other things get improved. Who knows. But nothing on this team is improved. In fact, everything is worse.

And that is where I have a major concern. Teams that take years to rebuild usually wind up like the Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, SF 49ers of recent years, and the Cincinnati Bengals. Throw in a good year here and there, but for the most part, those teams never win. They are always rebuilding.

Yeah the SD Chargers rebuilt after the Ryan Leaf fiasco, but if you look at what AJ Smith did, the guy brought in a pro bowl player every year as a GM. So far in two seasons, this regime hasn't brought in one pro bowl player. In fact DBrick and Mangold look about the same, if not worse, than last season. Revis looked good until yesterday. Harris is a part time player so far.

I just don't see this team knowing how to bring in great talent yet. If they had a pro bowl player or two, then I'd have more faith in a 3-4 year plan from here. But at this point, 3-4 more years just seems more like "maybe next year" same old Jets philosophy.

[pjam76]

Another few seasons being down is a concern for me. If the OL showed it was improved this season but the team still was 1-6, at least there is hope. Bring in KC and maybe next season other things get improved. Who knows. But nothing on this team is improved. In fact, everything is worse.

And that is where I have a major concern. Teams that take years to rebuild usually wind up like the Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, SF 49ers of recent years, and the Cincinnati Bengals. Throw in a good year here and there, but for the most part, those teams never win. They are always rebuilding.

Yeah the SD Chargers rebuilt after the Ryan Leaf fiasco, but if you look at what AJ Smith did, the guy brought in a pro bowl player every year as a GM. So far in two seasons, this regime hasn't brought in one pro bowl player. In fact DBrick and Mangold look about the same, if not worse, than last season. Revis looked good until yesterday. Harris is a part time player so far.

I just don't see this team knowing how to bring in great talent yet. If they had a pro bowl player or two, then I'd have more faith in a 3-4 year plan from here. But at this point, 3-4 more years just seems more like "maybe next year" same old Jets philosophy.

[mudcat21]

Teams that take years to rebuild usually wind up like the Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, SF 49ers of recent years

Jets have been rebuilding for 38 years now.

[mudcat21]

Teams that take years to rebuild usually wind up like the Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, SF 49ers of recent years

Jets have been rebuilding for 38 years now.

[nyjunc]

Of course the players miss Herm. They were allowed to takes practices off, not work out and play overweight. Now they actually hav eto be held accountable for mistakes instead of getting a pat on the back. Ty Law practiced as he pleased his one year with us.

Mangini will weed out the suckers.

I do like mangini even though he's done a horrible job this year but nma me the healthy season when our team ran out of gas in the 2nd halves of games the way we have so far tis season? you can say anything you want about soft camps, players taking practices off... but it worked and we didn't run out of gas like we have this year late in games.

[Irish Jet]

He is treating them no different than last year, only difference is now they are losing so Eric is a problem. I doubt Mangini is going anywhere for anothe year or two. Pointing the finger to the coaches is typical of players of a losing team. This team sucks and needs a major upgrade in talent. Its not like we are the San Diego chargers losing here. Coaching has to improve too, granted.

Yup, thats a big difference between mangini and Herm, when things go bad with Herm the players will stick with him and still go out and play for him.

Under mangini, when things go bad, they could get very bad. The locker room could very soon turn against him, start to question his methods. Mangini's philosophy of good hard preperation = Results goes out the window. that IMO is why he goes after the good charchter guys. To avoid locker room implosions at tough times like this. It really wouldnt suprise me to start to see players turn on him very soon, they'll question whether all the hard work was really worth it and if Eric Mangini really knows what he is doing. So much for mangenius.

Herm, as much as I dislike him, would never have had that problem.

[JetCane]

He is treating them no different than last year, only difference is now they are losing so Eric is a problem. I doubt Mangini is going anywhere for anothe year or two. Pointing the finger to the coaches is typical of players of a losing team. This team sucks and needs a major upgrade in talent. Its not like we are the San Diego chargers losing here. Coaching has to improve too, granted.

The only one i saw call out the coaches this week is mangini- he said the co-ords need to do a better job.

The coaching has sucked, but it is so easy to blame it on lack of talent, which btw is the CS and FO fault for staying $10M under the cap and not bringing in some more talent.

They traded picks, traded their starting LG, have a sh1tty eye for FA talent, and have installed schemes that havent worked. Great job by them.

[Sperm Edwards]

The only one i saw call out the coaches this week is mangini- he said the co-ords need to do a better job.

The coaching has sucked, but it is so easy to blame it on lack of talent, which btw is the CS and FO fault for staying $10M under the cap and not bringing in some more talent.

They traded picks, traded their starting LG, have a sh1tty eye for FA talent, and have installed schemes that havent worked. Great job by them.

Pretty good summary here I'd say.